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10 lbs may also equal raised confiidence and the time off to plan approach.

 

I wouldnt say he doesnt belong out there, but if the arguement is hes not a #1

 

Same excuse people make for zacha, judging him on his draft position.

 

Edit : My question for Daniel is the question of whether he should be out there at all?

 

Again on zacha, everyone is high on him and i dont know why he gets a pass. Is it his draft position, or is he not an NHLer?

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You're right. I take back my post. Only a moron would say something that stupid. 

Out of all the things to get upset about this miserable season I just can't get worked up about an 18 year old who still looks like a little kid. How many posts has he hit this season? How many fantas

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You don't draft a player for how good they are. You draft them because of the player you feel they have the potential to become. While I'm disappointed in Hughes' first season, I see no reason to think he's done developing at 18 years of age. 

This has been a fairly miserable season. I don't know why some people are intent on making it even more miserable. 

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35 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

You're misreading the room on this one.  It's not Daniel's opinion of Hughes that people have a problem with...I do think anyone who's already got Hughes potentially heading down the road to Bustville is definitely being premature, but sure, there are fans who are concerned about what he's shown to date...Nicomo, whose opinions I respect, has admitted being disappointed in Hughes' production this season...I can understand that.  For now, I'd just like to see Hughes returned to his proper position...the wing experiment hasn't done him any good.  But I can't make that big of a deal out of this tough rookie year, which was spent playing for two coaches that I think most of us don't think highly of, playing plenty with Wood and Simmonds, occasionally getting some lousy puck luck, and then being forced to play out of position even when it's become clear to everyone but Nas that Plan Wing for Hughes is not working out at all.  I'm not saying Hughes is totally without blame here, that I want to make clear.  But I am willing to give him more than 60 games (on a very flawed team) before I really start to worry about his future.     

Daniel's problem is that he's turned into a complete troll...he's nowhere to be found when the team is doing well (see the Rangers GDT thread), and now pops his head in just to be negative/irritating/annoying/whatever.  And he's often not even correct...he bitched constantly about how the owners would never get rid of Shero, and how Shero would never get rid of Hynes...wrong and wrong.  It's sad because he used to be a pretty solid poster once upon a time, and now he's turned into a complete joke, regardless of how he feels about Hughes.  

I don't think I am mis-reading the room on this one at all.  While I wouldn't call him a bust yet, the fact that him saying Jack is a bust shouldn't be creating that sort of reaction.  Also, look at the reaction I got from my reply earlier.  Also look at the reply from me last week when I literally just posted that Jack has 1 point in 11 games (which isn't a false statement).  It was the same steady stream of excuses and circling of the wagons every time his name is brought up.

Jack hasn't played with Wood in a while and Simmonds has been off the team for a few weeks now and him playing out of position has also been exaggerated.  I am indeed worried about Hughes' future because there hasn't been a forward in over 20 years who has put up the numbers (or lack thereof) as him in his rookie year.  Are we at least allowed to be concerned?  Is Daniel allowed to call him a bust without the board melting down?  Am I allowed to post a simple stat line without people getting completely bent out of shape?

I wouldn't call not showing up on a GDT on a Saturday night game to be indicative of him trying to duck the issue.  I mean Jack has earned zip on the scoring sheets since last week so there would be no reason to hide.  I've told you that I rarely post on the weekends and even in the evenings because I mostly post in between tasks at work.

Finally, if him being constantly negative about Hughes is being troll-like behavior, then shouldn't the constant bitching about PK in almost every single GDT be considered the same?  I don't know how many times you can say he sucks/not worth his contract/etc.

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6 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

You don't draft a player for how good they are. You draft them because of the player you feel they have the potential to become. While I'm disappointed in Hughes' first season, I see no reason to think he's done developing at 18 years of age. 

This has been a fairly miserable season. I don't know why some people are intent on making it even more miserable. 

Given the track record of how the team has been the past few years and the current shape of the franchise, it is hard to be positive.  Interim everything, owners who don't have a clue on what they are doing, and hanging our hopes on prospects, picks and rookies to pan out is not a great position to be in.

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59 minutes ago, devlman said:

No no no don’t try to pull that card of ‘oh we are just trying to express a different opinion, please don’t crucify us for our well to do thoughts!’. fvck outta here with that. If someone wants to talk complete and utter sh!t then go right ahead. But don’t whine when people call it out. Saying Hughes is already a bust isn’t an opinion rooted in any logic, hockey or otherwise. It’s not groupthink that people are wise enough to recognize 1.bullsh!t and 2.someone’s hysteria.

K.

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10 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I don't think I am mis-reading the room on this one at all.  While I wouldn't call him a bust yet, the fact that him saying Jack is a bust shouldn't be creating that sort of reaction.  Also, look at the reaction I got from my reply earlier.  Also look at the reply from me last week when I literally just posted that Jack has 1 point in 11 games (which isn't a false statement).  It was the same steady stream of excuses and circling of the wagons every time his name is brought up.

Jack hasn't played with Wood in a while and Simmonds has been off the team for a few weeks now and him playing out of position has also been exaggerated.  I am indeed worried about Hughes' future because there hasn't been a forward in over 20 years who has put up the numbers (or lack thereof) as him in his rookie year.  Are we at least allowed to be concerned?  Is Daniel allowed to call him a bust without the board melting down?  Am I allowed to post a simple stat line without people getting completely bent out of shape?

I wouldn't call not showing up on a GDT on a Saturday night game to be indicative of him trying to duck the issue.  I mean Jack has earned zip on the scoring sheets since last week so there would be no reason to hide.  I've told you that I rarely post on the weekends and even in the evenings because I mostly post in between tasks at work.

Finally, if him being constantly negative about Hughes is being troll-like behavior, then shouldn't the constant bitching about PK in almost every single GDT be considered the same?  I don't know how many times you can say he sucks/not worth his contract/etc.

he's probably talking about Daniel who does that all the time. He'll pop with his doom and gloom non-sense non-stop when there's a little problem but then he'll disapear and ignore everything when things are bad.

He'll also dig and dig for negatives.. even make sh!t up or make unreal jump to conclusions. But then discard and ignore any positives at any cost. That's just trolling or being obsessed with being pessimistic.

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12 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

he's probably talking about Daniel who does that all the time. He'll pop with his doom and gloom non-sense non-stop when there's a little problem but then he'll disapear and ignore everything when things are bad.

He'll also dig and dig for negatives.. even make sh!t up or make unreal jump to conclusions. But then discard and ignore any positives at any cost. That's just trolling or being obsessed with being pessimistic.

Not everyone is glued to this forum 24/7.

Also, about the bolded, one could say the same thing about you and Lou.

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Hughes will be a work in progress..imo,  theres a certain immaturity about him .. not sure how coach-able he is at this point.. he's a bit too flashy right now and needs to adjust his game these dudes are fast and big every night,  Im still very happy with the pick and wouldnt change it .. kid has turn on a dime suddenness and a much better wrist shot than I expected. skill set is elite!!! . he needs to value the possession more and find some decent line mates.. he'll be fine..

Im also fine with PK.. the two years left are not franchise killing..  defensively he has all the skill you need to go against the best,  I will put his and muellers skating skills up against ANY NHL top pair.  its their brain I fear LOL talk about having lapses in judgment..

Zacha is also an elite skater with a magnet on his tape.. hopefully that line continues to grow and score.. theres hope

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I don't think I am mis-reading the room on this one at all.  While I wouldn't call him a bust yet, the fact that him saying Jack is a bust shouldn't be creating that sort of reaction.  Also, look at the reaction I got from my reply earlier.  Also look at the reply from me last week when I literally just posted that Jack has 1 point in 11 games (which isn't a false statement).  It was the same steady stream of excuses and circling of the wagons every time his name is brought up.

Jack hasn't played with Wood in a while and Simmonds has been off the team for a few weeks now and him playing out of position has also been exaggerated.  I am indeed worried about Hughes' future because there hasn't been a forward in over 20 years who has put up the numbers (or lack thereof) as him in his rookie year.  Are we at least allowed to be concerned?  Is Daniel allowed to call him a bust without the board melting down?  Am I allowed to post a simple stat line without people getting completely bent out of shape?

I wouldn't call not showing up on a GDT on a Saturday night game to be indicative of him trying to duck the issue.  I mean Jack has earned zip on the scoring sheets since last week so there would be no reason to hide.  I've told you that I rarely post on the weekends and even in the evenings because I mostly post in between tasks at work.

Finally, if him being constantly negative about Hughes is being troll-like behavior, then shouldn't the constant bitching about PK in almost every single GDT be considered the same?  I don't know how many times you can say he sucks/not worth his contract/etc.

Others have pointed out with issue with Daniel...re:  Hughes; he's doing it in a way clearly meant to irritate.  You seem to be implying that he's some kind of victim, that he hasn't brought anything on himself...he's been acting like a jerk quite often for months now.  And the board isn't really melting down...in all fairness, sometimes you kind of make things sound more intense than they are, with terms like "circling the wagons" and "melting down".  I really don't think that's what's going on in this case, as much as some are just getting tired of Daniel's act.  Like CD#9 said, he's pretty much not going to get the benefit of the doubt much right now, and he brought that on himself.  

I know Hughes hasn't played with Wood and Simmonds in a while...I was pointing out that the fact that he did play with them for quite a while was one factor that hasn't helped his overall season.  If he's playing a position that he's not that familiar with and not comfortable playing, I'm not really sure how that's being exaggerated...it's another factor.  I'm not saying you're not allowed to be concerned...I'm just not there yet, this early in his career (like I said, Hughes definitely needs work and development and is not blameless, I'm not going to pretend that he doesn't have plenty of work to do, but I also recognize that not everything is on him).  If Daniel wants to call him a bust, fine, but to do that when the guy hasn't even had a full NHL season under his belt and won't turn 19 after the season is over isn't going to fly with posters who are willing to show more patience, so of course there will be some heated debates about such a take...being concerned about Hughes and flat-out labeling him a bust are two very different things.  

Daniel DID participate in the Rangers GDT, when they were down 2-1, with his usual nonsense (didn't mention Jack, but just a couple of his usual "negative for the sake of being negative" posts)...only to disappear completely once the Devils took the lead and went ahead.  It's that crap that some posters are getting tired of.  

Re:  PK, it's just frustrating because the guy is owned a ton over the next two seasons and unfortunately he constantly gives us ammo with his on-ice play.  Yeah, I get that some of us who have really had it with PK can sound like broken records.  But man is he just so INFURIATING at times.  Sometimes it's just hard to contain that frustration.  But it's not like when I do complain about him, that I'm just poking my head into njdevs just to point out yet another PK fvck-up moment...I post about a variety of Devils happenings.  And Daniel complaining about Hughes isn't what I mean when I say he's become a troll...others have said it...he drops in now to be annoyingly negative and irritating, damned near all the time, for what seems to be doing so for the sake of doing so.  Having a strong opinion (even if I think it's premature or it's one that simply don't agree with) about a certain player isn't trolling.  But his MO for quite a while has been bordering on that, if not already there.

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30 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Given the track record of how the team has been the past few years and the current shape of the franchise, it is hard to be positive.  Interim everything, owners who don't have a clue on what they are doing, and hanging our hopes on prospects, picks and rookies to pan out is not a great position to be in.

I don’t disagree with that at all. I absolutely hate where the franchise is and has been for a while now. I really did believe in Shero right up until the beginning of the season, then it all went Ka-blewie and his response was very underwhelming. 

 This season is done. We are only playing these games because we have to.

At least you come at the issue with stats and points about Hughes’ line mates. There can at least be a discussion even if people don’t agree, even though some people disagree on the defensive side.

But what people are complaining about is the Daniel hysteria. If I can go Sterio for a second...  It’s like the air conditioner is stuck on and one guy is screaming that we’re all about to freeze to death. 

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9 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

But what people are complaining about is the Daniel hysteria. If I can go Sterio for a second...  It’s like the air conditioner is stuck on and one guy is screaming that we’re all about to freeze to death. 

giphy.gif.d6ef074180e5c541d7299c8084fc868a.gif

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I know I'm beating a dead horse here myself because I've brought this up a few times already but if this forum had a proper ignore feature a lot of these back and forths would be avoided. People were raising money for the website off bets previously but maybe we need to do that now for a proper ignore feature, or just the Amazon referral links more often to get that feature fixed. 

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16 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

It’s like the air conditioner is stuck on and one guy is screaming that we’re all about to freeze to death. 

VERY well done, but if you're going to go FULL Sterio, shouldn't there be a relationship going on between some couple somewhere within that air-conditioned bliss?  

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Another great example of constant and self afflicted negativity here. ^ this guy is one of like 3-4 posters here who are constantly focusing on negative stuff and being pessimistic all the time. Liking each others negative comments and getting mad when people are telling them to chill out or offering them a positive mindset focusing on the positives.

Now i tried to offer him a different angle / perspective to at least TRY to see some things positively and he just didnt want to hear it, got frustrated that i was challenging him. So instead of trying to see it as a positive he chose to see it as me acting like i was better than him or god knows and since he blocked me and now he's been whining like 30 times a day that the ignore feature is not good enough cause he can still see some of my posts. We get it pal. You want to stay miserable. 

These last few season has not been fun hockey wise, I just don't understand why anyone here wouldnt at least want to consider a mindset that could keep them sane and happier. It's really not hard. Nope, they WANT to be miserable and unhappy for wtv reason. 

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23 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Others have pointed out with issue with Daniel...re:  Hughes; he's doing it in a way clearly meant to irritate.  You seem to be implying that he's some kind of victim, that he hasn't brought anything on himself...he's been acting like a jerk quite often for months now.  And the board isn't really melting down...in all fairness, sometimes you kind of make things sound more intense than they are, with terms like "circling the wagons" and "melting down".  I really don't think that's what's going on in this case, as much as some are just getting tired of Daniel's act.  Like CD#9 said, he's pretty much not going to get the benefit of the doubt much right now, and he brought that on himself.  

I know Hughes hasn't played with Wood and Simmonds in a while...I was pointing out that the fact that he did play with them for quite a while was one factor that hasn't helped his overall season.  If he's playing a position that he's not that familiar with and not comfortable playing, I'm not really sure how that's being exaggerated...it's another factor.  I'm not saying you're not allowed to be concerned...I'm just not there yet, this early in his career (like I said, Hughes definitely needs work and development and is not blameless, I'm not going to pretend that he doesn't have plenty of work to do, but I also recognize that not everything is on him).  If Daniel wants to call him a bust, fine, but to do that when the guy hasn't even had a full NHL season under his belt and won't turn 19 after the season is over isn't going to fly with posters who are willing to show more patience, so of course there will be some heated debates about such a take...being concerned about Hughes and flat-out labeling him a bust are two very different things.  

Daniel DID participate in the Rangers GDT, when they were down 2-1, with his usual nonsense (didn't mention Jack, but just a couple of his usual "negative for the sake of being negative" posts)...only to disappear completely once the Devils took the lead and went ahead.  It's that crap that some posters are getting tired of.  

Re:  PK, it's just frustrating because the guy is owned a ton over the next two seasons and unfortunately he constantly gives us ammo with his on-ice play.  Yeah, I get that some of us who have really had it with PK can sound like broken records.  But man is he just so INFURIATING at times.  Sometimes it's just hard to contain that frustration.  But it's not like when I do complain about him, that I'm just poking my head into njdevs just to point out yet another PK fvck-up moment...I post about a variety of Devils happenings.  And Daniel complaining about Hughes isn't what I mean when I say he's become a troll...others have said it...he drops in now to be annoyingly negative and irritating, damned near all the time, what seems to be doing so for the sake of doing so.  Having a strong opinion (even if I think it's premature or it's one that simply don't agree with) about a certain player isn't trolling.  But his MO for quite a while has been bordering on that, if not already there.

In about 2 weeks I will have been on this board for 10 years.  In that time I can't remember a stretch where Daniel wasn't at least somewhat negative.  It is who he is.  He is definitely over-the-top with a lot of his comments, but he's not calling anyone morons (at least from what I have seen).

I can see why PK would be infuriating to many.  What I don't get is the board delving into a PK roast for a while but the mere mention of Hughes sets people off and the name-calling starts.  Also, in his defense, Daniel does and has commented on more than just Hughes even if it is indeed consistently negative so you can't say he doesn't talk about a variety of things.

I have just found that this forum has more and more become a place where only groupthink is allowed when it comes to most topics.  I haven't been an angel myself over the past 10 years but I will say that it has gotten more intense as the number of posters here have dwindled.  If saying Hughes is a bust gets you this sort of reaction and saying the development camp scrimmage is stupid gets you banned for a month while others continue to dunk on you afterwards, then maybe I should start posting less.

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16 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

VERY well done, but if you're going to go FULL Sterio, shouldn't there be a relationship going on between some couple somewhere within that air-conditioned bliss?  

Yeah i feel it's more like... this woman freaking out that their new AC is worthless because the attic and the basement are still super warm.. that they should have got another brand, that they'll melt and die within the next 20 minutes etc etc while her husband is desprately trying to explain to her that the AC is a single room unit meant to cool down their bedroom... that it's only been on for only 1 minute. Or even that it hasnt been plugged in yet lol

But she won't accept that excuse obviously 

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3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah i feel it's more like... this woman freaking out that their new AC is worthless because the attic and the basement are still super warm.. that they should have got another brand, that they'll melt and die within the next 20 minutes etc etc while her husband is trying to explain to her that the AC is a single room unit meant to cool down their bedroom... that it's only been on for only 1 minute. Or even that it hasnt been plugged in yet lol 

I should have known not to mess with the master of the things. 

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23 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

In about 2 weeks I will have been on this board for 10 years.  In that time I can't remember a stretch where Daniel wasn't at least somewhat negative.  It is who he is.  He is definitely over-the-top with a lot of his comments, but he's not calling anyone morons (at least from what I have seen).

I can see why PK would be infuriating to many.  What I don't get is the board delving into a PK roast for a while but the mere mention of Hughes sets people off and the name-calling starts.  Also, in his defense, Daniel does and has commented on more than just Hughes even if it is indeed consistently negative so you can't say he doesn't talk about a variety of things.

I have just found that this forum has more and more become a place where only groupthink is allowed when it comes to most topics.  I haven't been an angel myself over the past 10 years but I will say that it has gotten more intense as the number of posters here have dwindled.  If saying Hughes is a bust gets you this sort of reaction and saying the development camp scrimmage is stupid gets you banned for a month while others continue to dunk on you afterwards, then maybe I should start posting less.

He also started about 5 different threads (not even kidding, it's seriously 4 or 5) all aimed at sh!tting on Hynes or Shero. Mostly Shero, then would turn any other threads into a Shero bashing thing. 

He'd then disappear when his claims were debunked/proven wrong or that the team would do well. I mean in MID-JUNE, he kept on whining that Shero was not trying to build a good team, that he'd do nothing with his cap space, not try to sign anyone etc etc and that he'd do nothing and just go in the season like this to tank... Days later we acquired Subban, then Gusev etc etc

When he'd claim the Devils problem were 100% the coaching or management. He'd shut down any claim that goaltending was the problem lol i mean come on. That's just wanting to obsess about having ONE scapegoat 

Now both shero and hynes are gone, his new victim is Hughes. I guess you can call that a variety but it's still not good.

And it's always the same thing, for all of those he'd dig and dig on the negatives and make sh!t up about them... and would absolutely refuse to consider or hear anything positive about them. Thats just trolling

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27 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I haven't been an angel myself over the past 10 years but I will say that it has gotten more intense as the number of posters here have dwindled. 

Not that I don't enjoy reading your regular posts but I always find your posts when you're pissed off and salty entertaining lol I have no problem with almost anyone saying whatever they want. 

I don't even think Daniel is a bad poster or anything like that. I just don't agree with giving up on an 18 year old and labeling him a bust when we have had a nightmare of a season with a horrible system and 2 horrible head coaches. There has to be some sort of patience that Hughes will have a better season next year. Trading him away now leaves the possibility that he ends up becoming an amazing player somewhere else while we watch from afar is a much worse situation to me. If he has a horrible year next year then I'll be more concerned. 

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2 hours ago, lazer said:

10 lbs may also equal raised confiidence and the time off to plan approach.

 

I wouldnt say he doesnt belong out there, but if the arguement is hes not a #1

 

Same excuse people make for zacha, judging him on his draft position.

 

Edit : My question for Daniel is the question of whether he should be out there at all?

 

Again on zacha, everyone is high on him and i dont know why he gets a pass. Is it his draft position, or is he not an NHLer?

Is it your opinion that everyone on this forum is high on Pavel Zacha and that we all give him a pass? 

Because holy sh;t lol

Edited by MB3
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There is a brilliant article with video analysis on The Athletic about Jack, highlight his strengths and the weaknesses of his game this season. 

Everything that has been poor about his game is correctable. 

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i mean you can see Jack's talent. I'm not going to wear blinders and completely dismiss some stuff either. But it's obviously too early to tell.

The kid is small, he had to adjust, he was playing against lesser competition on a STACKED team. So his stats mayyy have been inflated? But he's a playmaker too and he's now playing on a team that is struggling.

I'm absolutely going to be patient with him.

 

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3 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

But what people are complaining about is the Daniel hysteria. If I can go Sterio for a second...  It’s like the air conditioner is stuck on and one guy is screaming that we’re all about to freeze to death. 

False narrative, it’s not Sterio because you did not say anything about relationships. 

2 hours ago, MB3 said:

Is it your opinion that everyone on this forum is high on Pavel Zacha and that we all give him a pass? 

Because holy sh;t lol

Maybe two seasons ago...

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1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

i mean you can see Jack's talent. I'm not going to wear blinders and completely dismiss some stuff either. But it's obviously too early to tell.

The kid is small, he had to adjust, he was playing against lesser competition on a STACKED team. So his stats mayyy have been inflated? But he's a playmaker too and he's now playing on a team that is struggling.

I'm absolutely going to be patient with him.

 

As stacked as that USA team was not a single one of Jack’s teammates are in the NHL yet. The rest of those kids are off at college. So as disappointing as his season has been, you’d still have to ignore the circumstances to actually be so doom and gloom about where he is development-wise. What I don’t get is having an opinion set in stone after 60 games. Other than the immense pressure, and unfair expectations of him being a #1OA. 

One of the other things I find the most irritating is this claim that Jack is getting so much more of an opportunity than the other rookies from his draft. 

Here’s the ATOI of the 3 lottery picks:

Hughes - 15:52

Kakko - 14:20

Dach: 14:14

So while he is averaging a couple more shifts per game, he’s also on the worst team of the three. The Rags top scorer has 94 points. The Blackhawks has 82. The Devils...45. Bit of a difference, no? Jack is currently one point behind Dach, and two behind Kakko. None of them is lighting it up, yet we get proclamations that Kakko will be the next Draisaitl, Dach is on his way to being a future star, and Jack is the next Nail Yakupov. Idc what anyone says, that is CHOOSING to be negative. 

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5 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

As stacked as that USA team was not a single one of Jack’s teammates are in the NHL yet. The rest of those kids are off at college. So as disappointing as his season has been, you’d still have to ignore the circumstances to actually be so doom and gloom about where he is development-wise. What I don’t get is having an opinion set in stone after 60 games. Other than the immense pressure, and unfair expectations of him being a #1OA. 

One of the other things I find the most irritating is this claim that Jack is getting so much more of an opportunity than the other rookies from his draft. 

Here’s the ATOI of the 3 lottery picks:

Hughes - 15:52

Kakko - 14:20

Dach: 14:14

So while he is averaging a couple more shifts per game, he’s also on the worst team of the three. The Rags top scorer has 94 points. The Blackhawks has 82. The Devils...45. Bit of a difference, no? Jack is currently one point behind Dach, and two behind Kakko. None of them is lighting it up, yet we get proclamations that Kakko will be the next Draisaitl, Dach is on his way to being a future star, and Jack is the next Nail Yakupov. Idc what anyone says, that is CHOOSING to be negative. 

Oh absolutely. And i totally agree with you here. I was just pointing out claims that i feel could at least have some legs vs some non-sense.

And about the "choosing" to be negative. Well if you paid any attention that's something i've been bringing up quite a bit lately. It's frustrating

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