Weekes: Devils to retain Fitz as GM, hire Ruff as coach

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, HellOnICE said:

They brought in Simmonds, Subban and Gusev last off season at what 20M? Come on with this. 

You don't spend money for the sake of it, if you think there's a better fit out there, money aside - or at least a similar fit. 

I wouldn't sign anyone to a 5 year deal coaching right now, in fact, I'd likely not sign any coach to a five year deal who wasn't already in the org.

Devils have been largely prudent for the last 7-8 seasons and where has that gotten us?  1 Playoff appearance (again off the backs of 2 players having career years) and 4 or 5 bottom 6 finishes.

This coaching hire is not the result, but another symptom of how rotten the mindset of these owners and the suits right below them are.  Sometimes you got to take a bit of a gamble instead of constantly taking the safe route all the time.  There are no awards for being prudent or most efficient with your money/cap.

[NJDevils1214]

Maybe just timeline playing into it again. Why sign lav for 5 years @5mm a season when the team wont be competitive for at least 3 anyway? Lindy may have been seen as a more cost effective option in the short term and someone that, at the very least, has a record with helping young players so if it works out great and if not no lasting harm. 

[devlman]

22 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Maybe just timeline playing into it again. Why sign lav for 5 years @5mm a season when the team wont be competitive for at least 3 anyway? Lindy may have been seen as a more cost effective option in the short term and someone that, at the very least, has a record with helping young players so if it works out great and if not no lasting harm. 

What track record does he have with younger players? Also why hire a coach you plan to fire in a few years? Where’s the continuity. Poor Hughes has seen so much turnover in his one season with us. And if we’re planning on not even being competitive for the next 3 years then what are we even doing? These owners are proven perpetual tankers and it worries me more and more with each decision they make.

Edited July 10, 2020 by devlman

[titans04]

7 minutes ago, devlman said:

What track record does he have with younger players? Also why hire a coach you plan to fire in a few years? Where’s the continuity. Poor Hughes has seen so much turnover in his one season with us. And if we’re planning on not even being competitive for the next 3 years then what are we even doing? These owners are proven perpetual tankers and it worries me more and more with each decision they make.

this!

Let's tread some water for another few years then maybe seriously try and get better and look for a really good coach at that time. I don't buy this mindset and IF it's true it's a terrible reflection on Harris and Co. For now I choose to not believe it but it's certainly a possibility.

Anybody know what Ruff's contract terms are?

[HellOnICE]

44 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I really don't get any warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that Marty may one day be GM.  If he does, and he turns out to be a dud in the role, will these owners have the guts to fire him?  I can imagine the fan meltdown over that.  This is why I don't want former players in anything higher than assistant coaching positions (especially after MacLean).

Yes and MacLean was fired in ten minutes. Marty can be hired and can be fired, believe me fans will turn on him in a second if it's not working. These are adults. 

[HellOnICE]

46 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Devils have been largely prudent for the last 7-8 seasons and where has that gotten us?  1 Playoff appearance (again off the backs of 2 players having career years) and 4 or 5 bottom 6 finishes.

This coaching hire is not the result, but another symptom of how rotten the mindset of these owners and the suits right below them are.  Sometimes you got to take a bit of a gamble instead of constantly taking the safe route all the time.  There are no awards for being prudent or most efficient with your money/cap.

Largely prudent since Lou was fired, and couldn't even get the deadwood out until 2016 anyway. You're underestimating the hole we were in, with ZERO assets. The Athletic's Scott Wheeler did a review recently, and WE have been the worst drafting team since 2000! And he said it wasn't even close. It's going to take time. 

You think Ruff is a safe route? I disagree because to some - he was the 5th best candidate, how was that safe? Lavi/Gallant are safe picks. 

"no awards for 'being prudent' or 'efficient with money/cap" - That's the antithesis of team building.

Edited July 10, 2020 by HellOnICE

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, devlman said:

What track record does he have with younger players? Also why hire a coach you plan to fire in a few years? Where’s the continuity. Poor Hughes has seen so much turnover in his one season with us. And if we’re planning on not even being competitive for the next 3 years then what are we even doing? These owners are proven perpetual tankers and it worries me more and more with each decision they make.

The bolded is a myth.  Were they tanking in 2017-18?  Were they tanking when the team managed to put up a solid record for several games after last year's rough start?

No one's happy with the results as of late, but not playing well does NOT equate to deliberate tanking.  I sure as hell don't think Ray wanted to tank...he made a number of solid on-paper moves meant to improve the team that simply did not work out.  If the Devils REALLY wanted to tank, there's things they could have done to ensure even worse results.  They easily could've kept Cory up and given him the lion's share of minutes under the guise of "We're paying him so we have to get him right by playing him as much as possible."  

Ruff did coach the Sabres for a very long time...I don't necessarily believe that the Devils hired him with the plan of firing him.  Doesn't mean that they won't if he's not getting it done...don't forget that Fitz has likely waited a LONG time to get a GM gig, and he saw his predecessor lose his job partly because he didn't know when to get off his HC ship.  Fitz genuinely seems to think Ruff is the right guy, but based on how green Fitz is, he may only get one more HC hire if Ruff doesn't work out...and maybe none if he lets Ruff hang around too long without positive results.  

I posted this previously, but putting the above aside, there is a part of me that wonders if the Devils are trying to keep their future coaching options open, and still keeping an eye on Gronborg.  IF they are (big if), then I really don't what to say.  Really hope that is NOT what's going on here, and that right or wrong, they went with Ruff because Fitz really genuinely believes that he was the best man for the job.  To go Sterio, don't start dating one girl and have her think you're into her when you're really hoping the girl you REALLY dig eventually gets dumped by her boyfriend.  

 

55 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Devils have been largely prudent for the last 7-8 seasons and where has that gotten us?  1 Playoff appearance (again off the backs of 2 players having career years) and 4 or 5 bottom 6 finishes.

This coaching hire is not the result, but another symptom of how rotten the mindset of these owners and the suits right below them are.  Sometimes you got to take a bit of a gamble instead of constantly taking the safe route all the time.  There are no awards for being prudent or most efficient with your money/cap.

Lou was definitely not prudent (see the Cammalleri contract).  Prudent started with Shero, who didn't get to stay long enough to see his plan come to real fruition.  I think we pretty much all agree that most big-name UFAs weren't going to come here, so that was one avenue where the Devils weren't likely to significantly and quickly increase payroll.  I think if everything had gone to plan and more of Shero's moves had paid off and he was still here, money would've been spent on young players in house, due significant raises (like Nico), and Shero would've tried to make some more trades for high-priced players under contract.  I don't believe that the long-term plan was to keep the payroll down forever.  

[Jerzey]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I really don't get any warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that Marty may one day be GM.  If he does, and he turns out to be a dud in the role, will these owners have the guts to fire him?  I can imagine the fan meltdown over that.  This is why I don't want former players in anything higher than assistant coaching positions (especially after MacLean).

Well one thing I do appreciate is that Marty is definitely taking his time getting to the role. He’s working in several different positions from assistant GM of a soon to be Stanley Cup winning team to the business side of things. I think if he’s ready to take over one day he should be pretty prepared with all of the different types of experience he’s getting.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Jerzey

[DevsMan84]

47 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

Yes and MacLean was fired in ten minutes. Marty can be hired and can be fired, believe me fans will turn on him in a second if it's not working. These are adults. 

MacLean doesn't have a statue in front of the arena.  Believe me if the fans where to choose between Marty and the owners 99% of the fanbase would be taking Marty's side no matter what happens

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I really don't get any warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that Marty may one day be GM.  If he does, and he turns out to be a dud in the role, will these owners have the guts to fire him?  I can imagine the fan meltdown over that.  This is why I don't want former players in anything higher than assistant coaching positions (especially after MacLean).

I agree with this. I want no part of Marty as GM.

[DevsMan84]

44 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

Largely prudent since Lou was fired, and couldn't even get the deadwood out until 2016 anyway. You're underestimating the hole we were in, with ZERO assets. The Athletic's Scott Wheeler did a review recently, and WE have been the worst drafting team since 2000! And he said it wasn't even close. It's going to take time. 

You think Ruff is a safe route? I disagree because to some - he was the 5th best candidate, how was that safe? Lavi/Gallant are safe picks. 

"no awards for 'being prudent' or 'efficient with money/cap" - That's the antithesis of team building.

Lavi/Gallant are the smart picks.  They were also the risky picks since they required more $.  Instead, the Devils went with a guy who has been around forever and whose last two teams he has touched (Dallas & NYR) their teams and fans couldn't wait to get rid of him.

Great, a hockey writer said we were the worst drafting team since 2000.  Shero was given 5 years to draft better players and outside of the two number 1 overalls, only Bratt has shown to turn into serviceable NHL player.  Is Fitz, a Shero guy, going to switch gears and clean house on the drafting or stick with Castron?

I don't get the bolded part.  We are literally doing worse standings-wise now than we were 7-8 years ago when our playoff drought started.  Shouldn't a rebuilding team at least improve a little bit?  If Buffalo and Ottawa didn't exist, we would be the laughing stock of the East, hell probably the league.  Is the goal to continuously suck until we luck into picks that pan out?  Great, we are no longer the oldest team in the league but our seasons now end by Halloween instead of Thanksgiving.  Sorry, but if you want to continue to eat the $&^% that the owners continue to spew out be my guest.  I refuse.

[DevsMan84]

31 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Lou was definitely not prudent (see the Cammalleri contract).  Prudent started with Shero, who didn't get to stay long enough to see his plan come to real fruition.  I think we pretty much all agree that most big-name UFAs weren't going to come here, so that was one avenue where the Devils weren't likely to significantly and quickly increase payroll.  I think if everything had gone to plan and more of Shero's moves had paid off and he was still here, money would've been spent on young players in house, due significant raises (like Nico), and Shero would've tried to make some more trades for high-priced players under contract.  I don't believe that the long-term plan was to keep the payroll down forever.  

Shero was likely operating under an internal budget just like how Fitz will likely be operating under one.  We got fed the line of "weaponizing cap space" multiple times and often times that was used to either sign players to reach the cap floor (Simmonds and PK) or to help out cap-strapped teams (PK again).  Neither of those moves were made to improve the team long-term.  I am waiting for that to happen and instead that, along with the promise of better days ahead, keep getting pushed.

[HellOnICE]

4 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Lavi/Gallant are the smart picks.  They were also the risky picks since they required more $.  Instead, the Devils went with a guy who has been around forever and whose last two teams he has touched (Dallas & NYR) their teams and fans couldn't wait to get rid of him.

Great, a hockey writer said we were the worst drafting team since 2000.  Shero was given 5 years to draft better players and outside of the two number 1 overalls, only Bratt has shown to turn into serviceable NHL player.  Is Fitz, a Shero guy, going to switch gears and clean house on the drafting or stick with Castron?

I don't get the bolded part.  We are literally doing worse standings-wise now than we were 7-8 years ago when our playoff drought started.  Shouldn't a rebuilding team at least improve a little bit?  If Buffalo and Ottawa didn't exist, we would be the laughing stock of the East, hell probably the league.  Is the goal to continuously suck until we luck into picks that pan out?  Great, we are no longer the oldest team in the league but our seasons now end by Halloween instead of Thanksgiving.  Sorry, but if you want to continue to eat the $&^% that the owners continue to spew out be my guest.  I refuse.

Refuse, dude you're posting on a Devils msg board during the longest offseason ever. You are literally not refusing. 

Shero had 4 drafts, some have worked, some not. It's still super early. The oldest players are 22. He made some deals, some worked, some didn't. So one hand admitting that Shero didn't draft well, and so on. Fitz isn't Shero right? Fitz was in charge of Bing, they've done well, so maybe Ray didn't draft as bad as thought? We'll find out. 

7-8 years the playoff drought started but we've had new owners, new GMs, several coaches since then...the rebuild didn't start until 2015-16, Lou signing Ryder and Scott Gomez I wouldn't call a rebuild. 

And yes the goal is to continually suck until things organically get better through the draft, it's pretty simple math. We thought maybe we were ahead of that and brought in some help like PK last year, but it didn't work. So growth isn't linear, sometimes you take side steps or step backs. That's how it works.

Build enough assets in the cupboard that either pan out to play or trade for other assets. 

You're bitching and moaning about I'm not exactly sure what...go and offer 14M to mediocre Free Agents?

[DevsMan84]

1 minute ago, HellOnICE said:

Refuse, dude you're posting on a Devils msg board during the longest offseason ever. You are literally not refusing. 

Shero had 4 drafts, some have worked, some not. It's still super early. The oldest players are 22. He made some deals, some worked, some didn't. So one hand admitting that Shero didn't draft well, and so on. Fitz isn't Shero right? Fitz was in charge of Bing, they've done well, so maybe Ray didn't draft as bad as thought? We'll find out. 

7-8 years the playoff drought started but we've had new owners, new GMs, several coaches since then...the rebuild didn't start until 2015-16, Lou signing Ryder and Scott Gomez I wouldn't call a rebuild. 

And yes the goal is to continually suck until things organically get better through the draft, it's pretty simple math. We thought maybe we were ahead of that and brought in some help like PK last year, but it didn't work. So growth isn't linear, sometimes you take side steps or step backs. That's how it works.

Build enough assets in the cupboard that either pan out to play or trade for other assets. 

You're bitching and moaning about I'm not exactly sure what...go and offer 14M to mediocre Free Agents?

Who said anything about mediocre free agents?  They could have signed a better coach for more money and instead cheaped out.  That's like not signing a superstar for $11M a year, who is willing to sign with you, but would rather sign an over-the-hill vet for $7M a year.  The owners continue to claim to do everything they can to put a better product on the ice but their actions are showing they are not.

Binghamton has been doing well?  Outside of a 2nd half run this season they have missed the playoffs the first two years and were terrible the first half of this season.

Growth is growth, but the Devils aren't doing that.  They were awful this year, they were awful last year.  Outside of a single season that again was on the backs of 2 players, the Devils have been consistently awful the previous 2 seasons as well.  Where is the growth?  That's flat-lining.

I am sick and tired of the build assets line.  What the hell do you think we have been doing for the past several seasons?  I don't give two cr@ps about assets, I want to win games or at least be compelling beyond Halloween.

I didn't say I was ending my Devils fanhood (though tempting at times), I refuse to be fine with what is going on.

[mfitz804]

2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I really don't get any warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that Marty may one day be GM.  If he does, and he turns out to be a dud in the role, will these owners have the guts to fire him?  I can imagine the fan meltdown over that.  This is why I don't want former players in anything higher than assistant coaching positions (especially after MacLean).

To be honest, if management is taking “fan meltdowns” into consideration in making its decisions, we might need new management. 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Make of it what you will. 

 

[devlman]

@Colorado Rockies 1976  tanking record as in with the sixers. I know the NBA is a different beast but it shows their mindset. I mean the sixers were truly bad for a very long time and did nothing about it but encourage it. Also, I believe the firing of Shero was because he didn’t want to tear everything down but wanted to keep retooling. 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, devlman said:

Also, I believe the firing of Shero was because he didn’t want to tear everything down but wanted to keep retooling. 

If that’s true, I’m not sure I disagree. 

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Make of it what you will. 

 

In other words, Gallant wanted to win games while the front office / analytics department wanted to win stat categories.

[Crisis]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

In other words, Gallant wanted to win games while the front office / analytics department wanted to win stat categories.

Why are you still a fan of this team? It makes no sense to me.

[Nicomo]

5 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I really don't get any warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that Marty may one day be GM.  If he does, and he turns out to be a dud in the role, will these owners have the guts to fire him?  I can imagine the fan meltdown over that.  This is why I don't want former players in anything higher than assistant coaching positions (especially after MacLean).

Otoh Sakic is now one of the best GM’s in the league for his former team. Might be worth the gamble. I personally think Marty might be pretty good at it. He’s as well respected and connected as anyone in the game.  

4 hours ago, Jerzey said:

Well one thing I do appreciate is that Marty is definitely taking his time getting to the role. He’s working in several different positions from assistant GM of a soon to be Stanley Cup winning team to the business side of things. I think if he’s ready to take over one day he should be pretty prepared with all of the different types of experience he’s getting.

Agreed. He’s doing it the right way. 

[Devils Pride 26]

9 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am looking at track records from the past 5 seasons.

I really don't know why we constantly have to go back a decade or more to find examples.  Lemaire also bombed out in the first round in 2010 with a team that looked a full-step behind the Flyers in all 5 games.  Does the DeBoer mention mean we are hoping Ruff gets fired in a couple years so we can finally get a better coach? 

Dude, relax. Point is a lot of people were upset when Lemaire came in meanwhile there was a lot of unseen good. The devils team that lost in the playoffs was flawed. Lemaire being able to get a buy in from Kovalchuk to completely change his style is one of those unseen good things. 
 

Tyler Seguin developed into a rock star under Ruff. As did a lot of the young core in Dallas. Team is still a ways away, and if Ruff can have a similar effect on Nico and Hughes we’ll be a lot closer. 

[HellOnICE]

5 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Who said anything about mediocre free agents?  They could have signed a better coach for more money and instead cheaped out.  That's like not signing a superstar for $11M a year, who is willing to sign with you, but would rather sign an over-the-hill vet for $7M a year.  The owners continue to claim to do everything they can to put a better product on the ice but their actions are showing they are not.

Binghamton has been doing well?  Outside of a 2nd half run this season they have missed the playoffs the first two years and were terrible the first half of this season.

Growth is growth, but the Devils aren't doing that.  They were awful this year, they were awful last year.  Outside of a single season that again was on the backs of 2 players, the Devils have been consistently awful the previous 2 seasons as well.  Where is the growth?  That's flat-lining.

I am sick and tired of the build assets line.  What the hell do you think we have been doing for the past several seasons?  I don't give two cr@ps about assets, I want to win games or at least be compelling beyond Halloween.

I didn't say I was ending my Devils fanhood (though tempting at times), I refuse to be fine with what is going on.

You have no idea what you're talking about Re: Laviolette vs. Ruff and cheapening out. No one does. But to say like Lavi is a better coach than Ruff - that's subjective. Also, Lavi could be a better coach for certain kinds of teams at whatever stage they are in, and Ruff could turn out to be a good coach here for the situation we find ourselves. We'll find out. But you have to trust Fitz, so far he's done a good job, if he's staking his GM career on Lindy Ruff - 7th all time in wins, been in the game a long time - then so be it. 

That's what happens with development, it doesn't go well, and all of a sudden...voila - kids get better, they get more experience, and improve. Dennehy did a great job down there, especially after Hynes left, and Fitz gave him more reign in applying his own system. 

You can be sick of the build assets line, but the fact is, that's the only way you get better. You sound like a teenager bUT i WaNT 2 wIn gAMes!....yeah no sh!t, everyone does. 

[titans04]

As a part of building assets you can't spend 18.5M on free agents (subban- simmonds-gusev) and only gusev brings anything meaningful to the table.  That's a frustrating wiff and part of the reason we continue to tread water year after year.

[2ELIAS6]

12 hours ago, titans04 said:

As a part of building assets you can't spend 18.5M on free agents (subban- simmonds-gusev) and only gusev brings anything meaningful to the table.  That's a frustrating wiff and part of the reason we continue to tread water year after year.

all three of these guys were being brought here on a gamble. PK was showing to be trending down and Simmonds had a poor season the year prior but there was some upside belief that he could bounce back and there probably weren't a ton of options. Gusev definitely had/has some growing pains if we remember he was a healthy scratch several games. You have to work with the options you have, bringing in all three of these players were all smart moves that were only going to benefit the team if they worked out.