2021 Seattle Expansion Draft

[Jerrydevil]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:27 AM, RunninWithTheDevil said:

 

That was hellacious.

[NJDfan1711]

3 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

teamI'm not thrilled with expansion drafts. Teams should get to protect more players. I really don't care if an expansion team is competitive right away. If they want that, put your money where your mouth is and go out and get a bunch of free agents, make trades, etc. 

I almost feel like teams should be able to designate say, 4 guys they don't really want anymore, and that's who they should have to pick from. Maybe you throw a PK in there because he costs to much, or Gusev because he blows goats now, or a guy with a personality problem in the locker room. They should have to pick through our sh!t to try to find a diamond.

The concept of just letting them pick guys from another team and them having to move their families across the country, etc. is also kind of fvcked up. But I guess that's part of the price you pay to be an NHL player. 

I'm inclined to agree with you in that teams probably should get to protect more players and who really cares if Team X is competitive in the first 3-5 years of their existence outside of the people who live in that new city, but I can see why they do it this way - having the new team suck ass for the first 5 years, or longer, is not the way to grow the game and that given market that they're attempting to expand into.  Having the owners pony up some or more of their own money on the best free agents may help to combat that a little, but money doesn't solve everything and there's still no guarantee that guys would wanna go there (is playing hockey in the Nevada desert really that desirable?) and I think you may do some damage or a disservice to the league and/or the expansion team, which is counterintuitive to what they're trying to do by bringing a new team into the league to begin with.

[mfitz804]

9 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

(is playing hockey in the Nevada desert really that desirable?)

Are you asking if young, rich athletes would want to spend a few years living in Las Vegas? Because the answer to that, especially for single guys, is probably “hell yeah”. Even more so after they made the Finals year one. 

[HellOnICE]

Vegas is a becoming more and more, a great place to live.

[mfitz804]

10 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

Vegas is a becoming more and more, a great place to live.

I have friends in California that just told us they are moving to LV in 3 months. Apparently there’s a mass exodus form CA to LV going on right now. 

[NJDfan1711]

3 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Are you asking if young, rich athletes would want to spend a few years living in Las Vegas? Because the answer to that, especially for single guys, is probably “hell yeah”. Even more so after they made the Finals year one. 

The best available free agents aren't usually young and rich.  Those guys are usually the established veterans who, often times, are either just beginning to start families, or already have established families, which would diminish the draw that Vegas tends to provide young single people.

[NJDfan1711]

43 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I have friends in California that just told us they are moving to LV in 3 months. Apparently there’s a mass exodus form CA to LV going on right now. 

Might that be because LV is the closet neighbor?  When your options are CA or NV, I think (at least lately) most of the country is leaning NV.  Hell, CA themselves wanted to secede from the country and become their own country a few years back lol.

[NJDfan1711]

57 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

Vegas is a becoming more and more, a great place to live.

By whose standards?  I have an aunt who just left there after living there for 40 years because the job market sucks.  Even before last year and the whole ordeal with Covid, a ton of the casino and dealer jobs that used to be attainable by almost anyone (i.e. no experience or college degree required) are vanishing.  

[mfitz804]

31 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Might that be because LV is the closet neighbor?  When your options are CA or NV, I think (at least lately) most of the country is leaning NV.  Hell, CA themselves wanted to secede from the country and become their own country a few years back lol.

Probably because California is headed downhill. He’s keeping his same job because he can work fully remote from Vegas and travel back to CA when necessary. 

[NJDfan1711]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

Probably because California is headed downhill. He’s keeping his same job because he can work fully remote from Vegas and travel back to CA when necessary. 

That's kind of what I mean - I'm just wondering if LV is actually a really sought after destination, or if it's sort of just the lesser of two evils, so to speak, if California is the other option lol.

[mfitz804]

Just now, NJDfan1711 said:

That's kind of what I mean - I'm just wondering if LV is actually a really sought after destination, or if it's sort of just the lesser of two evils, so to speak, if California is the other option lol.

There’s a lot of people going there from New York the last few years too. But that’s not relevant to the hockey player discussion. They have the job part covered. They get to live in a place with plenty of nightlife, tons of slutty women (including famous ones), etc.  

Like I said, is Travis Zajac going to want to move his family there? Probably not. But a young kid, unattached, living in Vegas for a few years? That definitely has an allure. 

[NJDfan1711]

14 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

There’s a lot of people going there from New York the last few years too. But that’s not relevant to the hockey player discussion. They have the job part covered. They get to live in a place with plenty of nightlife, tons of slutty women (including famous ones), etc.  

Like I said, is Travis Zajac going to want to move his family there? Probably not. But a young kid, unattached, living in Vegas for a few years? That definitely has an allure. 

I feel ya, but I thought the discussion had turned to the idea that if owners could shell out more money to attract the best free agents available that they'd automatically want to come there, which is what I'm disagreeing with (not strongly, just taking the other side of the argument).  To your point, Travis Zajac probably wouldn't want to go to Vegas, and the guys that would are probably quite young and therefore not likely to be big impact players (yet) that the team would be targeting (players that they would otherwise get through the draft if they keep it as it is now where teams can only protect X amount of guys).

 

For the hell of it, I just Googled a list of UFAs coming up and here is a quick snapshot of a few of them:

PLAYER (170 OF 354)	POS.	AGE	TYPE	FROM	TO	YRS	DOLLARS	AVERAGE
Alex Pietrangelo	D	30	UFA	STL	VGK	7	$61,600,000	$8,800,000
Torey Krug	D	29	UFA	BOS	STL	7	$45,500,000	$6,500,000
Jacob Markstrom	G	30	UFA	VAN	CGY	6	$36,000,000	$6,000,000
T.J. Brodie	D	30	UFA	CGY	TOR	4	$20,000,000	$5,000,000
Chris Tanev	D	30	UFA	VAN	CGY	4	$18,000,000	$4,500,000
Tyler Toffoli	RW	28	UFA	VAN	MTL	4	$17,000,000	$4,250,000
Evgeni Dadonov	LW	31	UFA	FLA	OTT	3	$15,000,000	$5,000,000
Kevin Shattenkirk	D	31	UFA	TBL	ANA	3	$11,700,000	$3,900,000
Cameron Talbot	G	33	UFA	CGY	MIN	3	$11,000,000	$3,666,667
Anton Khudobin	G	34	UFA	DAL	DAL	3	$10,000,000	$3,333,333
Craig Smith	C	31	UFA	NSH	BOS	3	$9,300,000	$3,100,000
Braden Holtby	G	31	UFA	WAS	VAN	2	$8,600,000	$4,300,000
Taylor Hall	LW

 

Now how many of those guys are likely to want to go to Vegas, and of them, how many of them are really going to be highly sought after free agents and impact players?  Maybe Toffoli and Krug, I guess?  It's interesting and funny that our boy Hall is there, and frankly, maybe he would be the ideal candidate because I don't think he has a family yet and he's arguably the most talented player on the list and he's still relatively young, but anyone else on that list I'm guessing wouldn't put Vegas on their top 3 or 5 destinations to live/play.

[titans04]

With how this org has performed over the last bunch of years I'm bummed we're limited to only losing one player to the expansion draft. Honestly, I find it impossible to worry about what piece that might be when we have so very few of those that truly matter to begin with. I think it's another sign of the ongoing times with this org that we're literally sweating out possibly losing a marginal talent. I guess when the roster has a great deal of marginally talented players on it it elevates their talent level within the org and fanbase. What I mean by that is really good or even just good teams wouldn't give two sh!ts about losing the quality of player we're faced with losing and well that sucks. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by titans04

[NJDfan1711]

2 minutes ago, titans04 said:

With how this org has performed over the last bunch of years I'm bummed we're limited to only losing one player to the expansion draft. Honestly, I find it impossible to worry about what piece that might be when we have so very few of those that truly matter to begin with. I think it's another sign of the ongoing times with this org that we're literally sweating out possibly losing a marginal talent. I guess when the roster has a great deal of marginally talented players on it it elevates their talent level within the org and fanbase. What I mean by that is really good or even just good teams wouldn't give two sh!ts about losing the quality of player we're faced with losing and well that sucks. 

You're not wrong, and there's definitely a degree of sentimentality that we as Devils fans build up in some of our players, but if you're not a complete doom and gloom pessimist I think you have to be looking at the bright side of things and realize that the organization is heading in the right direction, even if only slightly so, and that there's at least a small semblance of talent that's worth worrying about keeping.

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I feel ya, but I thought the discussion had turned to the idea that if owners could shell out more money to attract the best free agents available that they'd automatically want to come there, which is what I'm disagreeing with (not strongly, just taking the other side of the argument).  To your point, Travis Zajac probably wouldn't want to go to Vegas, and the guys that would are probably quite young and therefore not likely to be big impact players (yet) that the team would be targeting (players that they would otherwise get through the draft if they keep it as it is now where teams can only protect X amount of guys).

 

For the hell of it, I just Googled a list of UFAs coming up and here is a quick snapshot of a few of them:

PLAYER (170 OF 354)	POS.	AGE	TYPE	FROM	TO	YRS	DOLLARS	AVERAGE
Alex Pietrangelo	D	30	UFA	STL	VGK	7	$61,600,000	$8,800,000
Torey Krug	D	29	UFA	BOS	STL	7	$45,500,000	$6,500,000
Jacob Markstrom	G	30	UFA	VAN	CGY	6	$36,000,000	$6,000,000
T.J. Brodie	D	30	UFA	CGY	TOR	4	$20,000,000	$5,000,000
Chris Tanev	D	30	UFA	VAN	CGY	4	$18,000,000	$4,500,000
Tyler Toffoli	RW	28	UFA	VAN	MTL	4	$17,000,000	$4,250,000
Evgeni Dadonov	LW	31	UFA	FLA	OTT	3	$15,000,000	$5,000,000
Kevin Shattenkirk	D	31	UFA	TBL	ANA	3	$11,700,000	$3,900,000
Cameron Talbot	G	33	UFA	CGY	MIN	3	$11,000,000	$3,666,667
Anton Khudobin	G	34	UFA	DAL	DAL	3	$10,000,000	$3,333,333
Craig Smith	C	31	UFA	NSH	BOS	3	$9,300,000	$3,100,000
Braden Holtby	G	31	UFA	WAS	VAN	2	$8,600,000	$4,300,000
Taylor Hall	LW

 

Now how many of those guys are likely to want to go to Vegas, and of them, how many of them are really going to be highly sought after free agents and impact players?  Maybe Toffoli and Krug, I guess?  It's interesting and funny that our boy Hall is there, and frankly, maybe he would be the ideal candidate because I don't think he has a family yet and he's arguably the most talented player on the list and he's still relatively young, but anyone else on that list I'm guessing wouldn't put Vegas on their top 3 or 5 destinations to live/play.

That’s pretty much what I said, Hall is a perfect example of a young guy that would probably not mind living it up for a few years. Of course, he also chose Buffalo so who the fvck knows. 

[Chuck the Duck]

12 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

That's kind of what I mean - I'm just wondering if LV is actually a really sought after destination, or if it's sort of just the lesser of two evils, so to speak, if California is the other option lol.

It also helps that there is no state income tax in Nevada, while Cali taxes the hell out of you for just breathing their air.  And it's not just CA.  People and companies are leaving NYC in droves and heading to other parts of the country (FL, TX) with much lower tax rates and costs of living.  Telecommunting is here to stay and it is likely going to force high tax states and cities to find innovative ways to retain population and high income earners.

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Chuck the Duck said:

It also helps that there is no state income tax in Nevada, while Cali taxes the hell out of you for just breathing their air.  And it's not just CA.  People and companies are leaving NYC in droves and heading to other parts of the country (FL, TX) with much lower tax rates and costs of living.  Telecommunting is here to stay and it is likely going to force high tax states and cities to find innovative ways to retain population and high income earners.

Didn’t know about the tax, obviously that’s huge also, especially for people making a crapload of money like hockey players. 

My job could be done fully remote if the office was set up the right way, which I never thought was possible before COVID. My friend who’s moving is in the financial industry and moved to California for work. Then he got a promotion and his new territory was Pennsylvania. He moved from New Jersey to California to work in California, and then was “transferred” and didn’t have to move. 

I have no idea what his area will be in LV; he mentioned having to travel back to CA occasionally so I assume it includes that. 

He’s also going from having a physical office to report to, to having no office at all. That sounds amazing tbh. 

[NJDfan1711]

15 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Didn’t know about the tax, obviously that’s huge also, especially for people making a crapload of money like hockey players. 

My job could be done fully remote if the office was set up the right way, which I never thought was possible before COVID. My friend who’s moving is in the financial industry and moved to California for work. Then he got a promotion and his new territory was Pennsylvania. He moved from New Jersey to California to work in California, and then was “transferred” and didn’t have to move. 

I have no idea what his area will be in LV; he mentioned having to travel back to CA occasionally so I assume it includes that. 

He’s also going from having a physical office to report to, to having no office at all. That sounds amazing tbh. 

For nearly 15 years I worked at two different companies where I had about an hour drive to work everyday, so 2 hours total when you include the drive to and from, then at the beginning of last year I took a job where my commute became 15 minutes each way which was very nice and a lot shorter, and now as of about March/April last year and still to this day, I have no commute and I work from home.  I support a half dozen different offices within a 30 mile radius of me (and about a dozen others much farther away), but I have no physical "main office" to report to anymore either, and it's looking like it may stay that way.  

Edited March 16, 2021 by NJDfan1711

[mfitz804]

9 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

For nearly 15 years I worked at two different companies where I had about an hour drive to work everyday, so 2 hours total when you include the drive to and from, then at the beginning of last year I took a job where my commute became 15 minutes each way which was very nice and a lot shorter, and now as of about March/April last year and still to this day, I have no commute and I work from home.  I support a half dozen different offices within a 30 mile radius of me (and about a dozen others much farther away), but I have no physical "main office" to report to anymore either, and it's looking like it may stay that way.  

Yeah that sounds great. Being home with my family and waking up at 8:40 to be at my desk by 9:00 was amazing for the three months I got to do it. 

[NJDfan1711]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

Yeah that sounds great. Being home with my family and waking up at 8:40 to be at my desk by 9:00 was amazing for the three months I got to do it. 

It doesn't suck.   I don't really prefer being single, but it's made it so that my typical routine is waking up at 7:40 to be on my couch by 8:00 lol.   

[mfitz804]

I should add, my daughter having to go to limited school, as well as her being older now and more able to get ready without constant nagging, I’ve been sleeping until 7:15 when my usual alarm was 6:30. My driving time to work has been reduced from 45 minutes to 25 minutes, just because traffic is lighter and I can take the expressway. 

But still, the warmer climate of a place like Vegas sounds nice right about now. I wouldn’t say I would want to live there forever, but I’d like a few years of  desert life lol. 

[Satans Hockey]

Vegas is totally a place I could never imagine living, a few days is enough for me but I'm also not into gambling or fancy clubs. I enjoyed the buffets though lol

I forgot what it was like to have people being allowed to smoke wherever they wanted and that was what I hated most about the place. So many places absolutely just stunk of cigarettes. I really didn't realize how much of a blessing banning smoking indoors was until going to Vegas. 

[NJDevils1214]

31 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Vegas is totally a place I could never imagine living, a few days is enough for me but I'm also not into gambling or fancy clubs. I enjoyed the buffets though lol

I forgot what it was like to have people being allowed to smoke wherever they wanted and that was what I hated most about the place. So many places absolutely just stunk of cigarettes. I really didn't realize how much of a blessing banning smoking indoors was until going to Vegas. 

I echo all your points. Vegas is simply a place I have no interest in even visiting. Nothing about it, as advertised, appeals to me. 

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Satans Hockey said:

I forgot what it was like to have people being allowed to smoke wherever they wanted and that was what I hated most about the place. So many places absolutely just stunk of cigarettes. I really didn't realize how much of a blessing banning smoking indoors was until going to Vegas. 

I can imagine. Even in Atlantic City, where there are designated smoking sections (at least the last time I was there, which is probably 10 years ago at this point), it is weird to find places stinking of smoke when you are so used to indoor smoking being banned. I imagine if I checked into a hotel room that smelled like that, I would be displeased. 

[jagknife]

23 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I feel ya, but I thought the discussion had turned to the idea that if owners could shell out more money to attract the best free agents available that they'd automatically want to come there, which is what I'm disagreeing with (not strongly, just taking the other side of the argument).  To your point, Travis Zajac probably wouldn't want to go to Vegas, and the guys that would are probably quite young and therefore not likely to be big impact players (yet) that the team would be targeting (players that they would otherwise get through the draft if they keep it as it is now where teams can only protect X amount of guys).

 

For the hell of it, I just Googled a list of UFAs coming up and here is a quick snapshot of a few of them:

PLAYER (170 OF 354)	POS.	AGE	TYPE	FROM	TO	YRS	DOLLARS	AVERAGE
Alex Pietrangelo	D	30	UFA	STL	VGK	7	$61,600,000	$8,800,000
Torey Krug	D	29	UFA	BOS	STL	7	$45,500,000	$6,500,000
Jacob Markstrom	G	30	UFA	VAN	CGY	6	$36,000,000	$6,000,000
T.J. Brodie	D	30	UFA	CGY	TOR	4	$20,000,000	$5,000,000
Chris Tanev	D	30	UFA	VAN	CGY	4	$18,000,000	$4,500,000
Tyler Toffoli	RW	28	UFA	VAN	MTL	4	$17,000,000	$4,250,000
Evgeni Dadonov	LW	31	UFA	FLA	OTT	3	$15,000,000	$5,000,000
Kevin Shattenkirk	D	31	UFA	TBL	ANA	3	$11,700,000	$3,900,000
Cameron Talbot	G	33	UFA	CGY	MIN	3	$11,000,000	$3,666,667
Anton Khudobin	G	34	UFA	DAL	DAL	3	$10,000,000	$3,333,333
Craig Smith	C	31	UFA	NSH	BOS	3	$9,300,000	$3,100,000
Braden Holtby	G	31	UFA	WAS	VAN	2	$8,600,000	$4,300,000
Taylor Hall	LW

 

Now how many of those guys are likely to want to go to Vegas, and of them, how many of them are really going to be highly sought after free agents and impact players?  Maybe Toffoli and Krug, I guess?  It's interesting and funny that our boy Hall is there, and frankly, maybe he would be the ideal candidate because I don't think he has a family yet and he's arguably the most talented player on the list and he's still relatively young, but anyone else on that list I'm guessing wouldn't put Vegas on their top 3 or 5 destinations to live/play.

So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you meant to post a different picture, cause every single player on that list, minus one big-foreheaded exception, all signed last summer... for the deals listed....