mfitz804 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: So with Hakstol getting the coaching gig in Seattle. I wonder if it's helping our chances of getting Johnsson picked since he's familiar with him Hadn’t thought of it, if you can will that into existence I would appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 21 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: Hadn’t thought of it, if you can will that into existence I would appreciate it. did you know what a fish can cough ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: did you know what a fish can cough ? I have no idea what that means. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Pretty sure this is going to be the Devils protected list. They need to leave 2 green forwards and 1 green defenseman exposed. Only change I can think of is if the Devils give Merkley a contract to allow him to meet the exposure requirement. Then you can protect Bastian over Kuokkanen, which I would personally do. Or I suppose they would then be able to protect Johnsson and let Nick and Nate be the green forwards. Here are the exposure requirements 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guadana Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Fitz will protect Janne. That`s obvious. We cant protect Mcleod and Bastian both. I`m really impressed how Bastian play, and after another Tampa perfomance, i`m understanding the meaning of great role players. Hope Fitz will take 50% of Butcher salary and give 2nd round pick to Seattle for saving Bastian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Just now, Guadana said: Fitz will protect Janne. That`s obvious. We cant protect Mcleod and Bastian both. I`m really impressed how Bastian play, and after another Tampa perfomance, i`m understanding the meaning of great role players. Hope Fitz will take 50% of Butcher salary and give 2nd round pick to Seattle for saving Bastian. Yeah I hope so. Would be devastating to lose one of the only real bangers on the roster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Definitely agree, hope that we protect Bastian. Think he and McLeod could turn into real solid bottom-6 depth guys. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Devilsfan118 said: Definitely agree, hope that we protect Bastian. Think he and McLeod could turn into real solid bottom-6 depth guys. I agree about Bastian but wouldn’t that be at the expense of McLeod? Unless you’re saying to leave Kuokkonen available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 9 hours ago, Crisis said: Pretty sure this is going to be the Devils protected list. They need to leave 2 green forwards and 1 green defenseman exposed. Only change I can think of is if the Devils give Merkley a contract to allow him to meet the exposure requirement. Then you can protect Bastian over Kuokkanen, which I would personally do. Or I suppose they would then be able to protect Johnsson and let Nick and Nate be the green forwards. Here are the exposure requirements Why protect Subban over Butcher? Not that Butcher is worth much, but I can't see anyone taking Subban's ridiculous 9M contract, even if it's for only one year. His performance has been anything but attractive, and I don't see us wanting to extend or re-sign him anyway, so if they did happen to take him...good riddance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guadana Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Why protect Subban over Butcher? Not that Butcher is worth much, but I can't see anyone taking Subban's ridiculous 9M contract, even if it's for only one year. His performance has been anything but attractive, and I don't see us wanting to extend or re-sign him anyway, so if they did happen to take him...good riddance? Because if they will take Butcher - we will drink champain. Subban with his 9mil contract is more reasonable defenseman than Butcher with his 3.775. In general, if Subban leaves, three questions arise - who will play on the right? who will play the minutes that Subban played? how do we get to the floor? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Guadana said: Because if they will take Butcher - we will drink champain. Subban with his 9mil contract is more reasonable defenseman than Butcher with his 3.775. In general, if Subban leaves, three questions arise - who will play on the right? who will play the minutes that Subban played? how do we get to the floor? That would be my concern. I know our defense sucks, but believe it or not it could be even worse… Subban might not be an elite scorer anymore, but he’s still solid defensively. I’d say only Kulikov was even close last year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lateralous Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Why protect Subban over Butcher? Not that Butcher is worth much, but I can't see anyone taking Subban's ridiculous 9M contract, even if it's for only one year. His performance has been anything but attractive, and I don't see us wanting to extend or re-sign him anyway, so if they did happen to take him...good riddance? Butcher doesn’t really have a spot on this team. He was basically a health scratch all year under Lindy. I know Subban wasn’t anything near the dynamic top pair defenseman many fans thought we were getting when we acquired him and he sucked 2 years ago trying to be that guy but last year he really settled into quietly eating the tough minutes and preventing some of the other guys on the team from getting caved in on with tougher roles. Subban still has an important role on this team in ‘21-‘22 and if we still blow he would get more as a trade deadline acquisition than a season long healthy scratch would. I would actually like to see Seattle nab Butcher so we don’t lose any of the forwards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Yep. Butcher would be the ideal scenario. Especially with Walsh in the pipeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, Nicomo said: That would be my concern. I know our defense sucks, but believe it or not it could be even worse… Subban might not be an elite scorer anymore, but he’s still solid defensively. I’d say only Kulikov was even close last year. Is he? That's not really what I would say, at all. Dude is mediocre at almost all aspects of his game - skating (he's mildly fast), puck handling (he turns it over a lot, but has occasional nice dekes), shooting (he misses the net a TON, but fines twine once in a blue moon on the PP), and defense (never a stay-at-home-d-man, he's decent, at best). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 36 minutes ago, Guadana said: Because if they will take Butcher - we will drink champain. Subban with his 9mil contract is more reasonable defenseman than Butcher with his 3.775. In general, if Subban leaves, three questions arise - who will play on the right? who will play the minutes that Subban played? how do we get to the floor? Minutes and ice time doesn't worry me one bit. Our defense wasn't good at all last year, so the chance for some young guys to eat up more minutes only means more experience for them. Learning on the job isn't always a bad thing. In terms of reaching the cap floor, that only should serve as more motivation to go out and sign some free agents. Make them a stupid offer, if we have to. Many teams would dream of the "problem" of actually having to overpay players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, Lateralous said: Subban still has an important role on this team in ‘21-‘22 and if we still blow he would get more as a trade deadline acquisition than a season long healthy scratch would. I guess I just don't see what his role is. To me he's clearly the odd man out, for a lot of reasons. His diminished skill, his age, his contract. I feel like Smith is the one who ate up a lot of minutes last year and was the one who was often up against the other team's best forwards, not Subban. Vats was too, before we let him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: Is he? That's not really what I would say, at all. Dude is mediocre at almost all aspects of his game - skating (he's mildly fast), puck handling (he turns it over a lot, but has occasional nice dekes), shooting (he misses the net a TON, but fines twine once in a blue moon on the PP), and defense (never a stay-at-home-d-man, he's decent, at best). Yes. He’s still a top 4 on most teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: In terms of reaching the cap floor, that only should serve as more motivation to go out and sign some free agents. Make them a stupid offer, if we have to. Many teams would dream of the "problem" of actually having to overpay players. You can make all the stupid offers you want, you can’t make guys sign. The Devils have had plenty of money to throw around for years now, and the biggest FA’s they’ve been able to land are guys like Brian Boyle and Wayne Simmonds. It’s just not a attractive destination. Regardless of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicomo Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: I guess I just don't see what his role is. To me he's clearly the odd man out, for a lot of reasons. His diminished skill, his age, his contract. I feel like Smith is the one who ate up a lot of minutes last year and was the one who was often up against the other team's best forwards, not Subban. Vats was too, before we let him go. Nope. Only Severson had a higher ATOI than Subban last year. https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/team/new-jersey-devils/statistics Not listed: Kulikov - 19:33 Vatanen - 17:14 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 7 hours ago, Nicomo said: Yes. He’s still a top 4 on most teams. And markedly improved this year compared to last year as well. Maybe still not “worth” $9m, but if you take the money out of it, I’d rather have him over Butcher. Butcher may not have played a game last season if everyone stayed healthy and nobody got traded. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guadana Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said: Minutes and ice time doesn't worry me one bit. Our defense wasn't good at all last year, so the chance for some young guys to eat up more minutes only means more experience for them. Learning on the job isn't always a bad thing. In terms of reaching the cap floor, that only should serve as more motivation to go out and sign some free agents. Make them a stupid offer, if we have to. Many teams would dream of the "problem" of actually having to overpay players. Some guys who? We don’t have defensemen on the right side. Minutes worry everybody, because our defense was bad without subs, subs play well past season, money doesn’t hurt us and only help. Because with him we can add contracts anyway. Without we can’t get floor. And don’t forget, may be no one wants to sign here. It’s a every year story. Absolutely no one. Kulikov was in one step away from KHL. Simmons - huge overpayment. God helped, this was an one year deal. “Motivation” is a sh!t thing if we are talking about real management. It’s may come to situation where devils will sign much more uncompetitive defensemen and this roster will svck much more and it will hurt a year of development of young players. Btw we have three LD prospects in AHL and only subs can be good veteran-partner to play with. there a ton of reasons subban to stay and one to expose him - he didn’t play for his money. Yeah. He play like 5-6 mil defenseman. Wow. Let’s expose him in a day when we can protect him easily and than trade him for assets in deadline. Very reasonable. Edited July 10, 2021 by Guadana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDfan1711 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Guadana said: Let’s expose him in a day when we can protect him easily and than trade him for assets in deadline. Very reasonable. That's probably the biggest point that we differ on - I just don't see us being able to trade him for assets worth very much at all. Of course we don't know what next season will bring in terms of his performance and whether or not his value goes up (or, if it's possible, down), but if things stay the same, what would he fetch back in a trade? A low pick and a journeyman defenseman? This team doesn't need another Siegenthaler. I'd much rather us cut ties with him now and use the cap savings to overpay for this offseason's top free agent defenseman. Yeah, we swung and missed when we acquired Subban a couple years ago - that doesn't mean you stop trying. I'm not married to Butcher by any means and I'll be the first to say that he's been a bit of a disappointment the last couple seasons, but he's got more upside than Subban does at this point in his career, so between the two I just don't see why you would keep PK. Edited July 10, 2021 by NJDfan1711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 56 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said: That's probably the biggest point that we differ on - I just don't see us being able to trade him for assets worth very much at all. Of course we don't know what next season will bring in terms of his performance and whether or not his value goes up (or, if it's possible, down), but if things stay the same, what would he fetch back in a trade? A low pick and a journeyman defenseman? This team doesn't need another Siegenthaler. I'd much rather us cut ties with him now and use the cap savings to overpay for this offseason's top free agent defenseman. Yeah, we swung and missed when we acquired Subban a couple years ago - that doesn't mean you stop trying. I'm not married to Butcher by any means and I'll be the first to say that he's been a bit of a disappointment the last couple seasons, but he's got more upside than Subban does at this point in his career, so between the two I just don't see why you would keep PK. Subban's contract will not hold the Devils back from overpaying a top FA dman. Also PK is way more reliable than Butcher in the d-zone, and it's not even close. Just look at their ice time. PK led the team and Butcher was scratched half the season. It just makes no sense to me to force out a player in a position we desperately need to fill. He's not a liability. He isn't blocking anyone coming up. His contract isn't preventing the team from signing a free agent. And the Devils can turn him into at least a draft pick. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Crisis said: Subban's contract will not hold the Devils back from overpaying a top FA dman. Also PK is way more reliable than Butcher in the d-zone, and it's not even close. Just look at their ice time. PK led the team and Butcher was scratched half the season. It just makes no sense to me to force out a player in a position we desperately need to fill. He's not a liability. He isn't blocking anyone coming up. His contract isn't preventing the team from signing a free agent. And the Devils can turn him into at least a draft pick. 100%, and very well stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, mfitz804 said: 100%, and very well stated. Yeah but that whole angle is not taking my feelings into considerations at all. WHAT ABOUT MY FEELINGS?!? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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