New Jersey Devils 2020(ish)-2021 Season

[moustic]

But more important... Do we play any Wednesday this season ? ; )  

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Also, apparently Bratt is playing in Sweden (is he part of WJC or something?) and it's been rumored that he won't be ready/able to play come January 13th, on account of the mandatory two week isolation.  I'm far from being in the know on all of the "rules" when it comes to Covid, but that sounds plausible to me, and if true, would really suck.  If Nico's already going to be out we sure as hell don't need to be missing Bratt on top of that. 

If that’s true, he shouldn’t be playing. Responsibility #1 is in New Jersey. 

[hrasvalg]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Also, apparently Bratt is playing in Sweden (is he part of WJC or something?) and it's been rumored that he won't be ready/able to play come January 13th, on account of the mandatory two week isolation.  I'm far from being in the know on all of the "rules" when it comes to Covid, but that sounds plausible to me, and if true, would really suck.  If Nico's already going to be out we sure as hell don't need to be missing Bratt on top of that. 

Where have you read this? Can't find any information about that in Swedish newspapers.

Latest information about this is he is training on ice together with some guys that's in the same situation, and also focusing on building up his body. I know he also trained on ice with Patrick Hörnqvist.

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, moustic said:

But more important... Do we play any Wednesday this season ? ; )  

lol... I can't tell if you're joking or not. But if you're really asking this is kind of hilarious haha

[NJDfan1711]

37 minutes ago, hrasvalg said:

Where have you read this? Can't find any information about that in Swedish newspapers.

Latest information about this is he is training on ice together with some guys that's in the same situation, and also focusing on building up his body. I know he also trained on ice with Patrick Hörnqvist.

This isn't the exact article I read, but it was published today (Dec 30th) and it mentions basically the same thing, i.e. that Bratt is practicing in Sweden and could miss some or all of training camp, and possibly the start of the season depending on if/when he's signed and returns to the U.S.:  New Jersey Devils News & Rumors: Nico Hischier, Jesper Bratt & More (thehockeywriters.com)

 

[mfitz804]

16 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

This isn't the exact article I read, but it was published today (Dec 30th) and it mentions basically the same thing, i.e. that Bratt is practicing in Sweden and could miss some or all of training camp, and possibly the start of the season depending on if/when he's signed and returns to the U.S.:  New Jersey Devils News & Rumors: Nico Hischier, Jesper Bratt & More (thehockeywriters.com)

 

I forgot he doesn’t have a contract. Responsibility #1 is to himself. 

[NJDfan1711]

14 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I forgot he doesn’t have a contract. Responsibility #1 is to himself. 

Yeah for sure, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.  I don't know why him not having a contract would preclude him from returning to the U.S.  Maybe they're actually two separate things, though if it's not an issue then I'm not quite sure why he wouldn't already have returned to the U.S. once an opening date for the season was announced, but either way I just wanted to share what I read about him possibly being delayed joining camp or even the regular season.

[Nicomo]

55 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Yeah for sure, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.  I don't know why him not having a contract would preclude him from returning to the U.S.  Maybe they're actually two separate things, though if it's not an issue then I'm not quite sure why he wouldn't already have returned to the U.S. once an opening date for the season was announced, but either way I just wanted to share what I read about him possibly being delayed joining camp or even the regular season.

Work visa? 

[NJDevils1214]

3 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Work visa? 

This was my thinking. I wonder if NJ could sign him to a PTO in the meantime so he could come to camp but idk the CBA and what is allowed. Either way, he def isn't in the WJC.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Yeah for sure, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.  I don't know why him not having a contract would preclude him from returning to the U.S.  Maybe they're actually two separate things, though if it's not an issue then I'm not quite sure why he wouldn't already have returned to the U.S. once an opening date for the season was announced, but either way I just wanted to share what I read about him possibly being delayed joining camp or even the regular season.

If he has no contract, he has no reason to return to the US. Coming to the US like he’s ready to start without having a contract would weaken his position. 

[NJDfan1711]

52 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Work visa? 

That didn't even cross my mind, I was just assuming he was a U.S. citizen with dual citizenship, but since he's only 22 then that's probably not the case, so you might be right. 

42 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

If he has no contract, he has no reason to return to the US. Coming to the US like he’s ready to start without having a contract would weaken his position. 

That didn't cross my mind either, and that could also be true, but being only 22 and not exactly having any real amazing seasons under his belt yet, I'm not sure how much bargaining power he really has.  With him still being a young kid so to speak and still somewhat in the "prove it" phase of his career, that it would look better on him to show up early, contract or not, and show his commitment to the team. 

[NJDfan1711]

Going back to the work visa thing, it really has me intrigued.  I mean, Bratt's an RFA, so would he technically be considered "unemployed"?  Since we still have his rights, I would imagine he's considered employed, just not with a valid contract at the moment.  But, just for argument's sake, if for some strange reason he is actually considered unemployed, are work visas usually/only issued based on conditions of employment?  I wonder if they are issued with expiration dates, similar to a driver's license, so that perhaps they don't necessarily coincide with his actual team contract.  Just thinking here.   I guess there are a few variables at play.

Edited December 31, 2020 by NJDfan1711

[mfitz804]

14 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

That didn't even cross my mind, I was just assuming he was a U.S. citizen with dual citizenship, but since he's only 22 then that's probably not the case, so you might be right. 

That didn't cross my mind either, and that could also be true, but being only 22 and not exactly having any real amazing seasons under his belt yet, I'm not sure how much bargaining power he really has.  With him still being a young kid so to speak and still somewhat in the "prove it" phase of his career, that it would look better on him to show up early, contract or not, and show his commitment to the team. 

It would definitely be a better look if he was here ready to go, but if they are offering him a million per and he’s looking for 5 million (I don’t know what he wants), the threat of playing in Europe could be a bargaining chip. And one he loses if he is in New Jersey. 

[NJDfan1711]

I decided to try to answer my own question, and there is some good information here:  https://usimmigrationlaw.net/athletes-2/

Looks like he wouldn't qualify for the O-1 visa as apparently that's strictly for the freak of nature, once-in-a-lifetime type athletes, and for the P-1 visa he would indeed need an active contract, but the H-2B visa might be something he can get.

Also, there's some interesting legal jargon in what it takes to be issued a visa, which seems quite easy to obtain.  The last three bullet points on this list seem intentionally vague/easy to qualify for:

• Receipt of lesser recognized prizes or awards for excellence;
• Membership in associations requiring as a condition of membership outstanding achievements as adjudged by recognized experts;
• Published material in professional or major trade publications or major media about the person and his or her work;
• Participation as a judge of others in the field;
• Performance in a critical role for an organization with a distinguished reputation; and
• Command of a high salary or other high remuneration.

Basically he could have some website or newspaper write a column about him (which has obviously happened), have the team vouche for the criticality of his role (we lack depth and suck, so we need him lol), and commanding a high salary is probably something that could be argued....maybe not in terms of his peers, but certainly compared to mine or the average Joe's lol

[NJDfan1711]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

It would definitely be a better look if he was here ready to go, but if they are offering him a million per and he’s looking for 5 million (I don’t know what he wants), the threat of playing in Europe could be a bargaining chip. And one he loses if he is in New Jersey. 

Well yeah, but that's assuming the threat of playing in Europe is something that he's actually interested in, or could live with as a backup plan if they called his bluff.  I know some guys like that, but I think there's a reason most of them still come to the U.S. to play (the NHL is regarded as the best league in the world, and the U.S. is a pretty good place to live, all things considered).  So unless you're Kovalfvck, he may not want to use the leverage of his hometown.

[mfitz804]

It’s just how you negotiate. I threaten things I have no intention of doing in negotiations all the time. You have to know what you can get away with. 

Again, I’m not saying he’s doing it, or that he has any intention or desire to play in Europe, I’m just saying, if it’s a tactic in negotiations, it’s less convincing if he’s hanging around the arena in full gear lol. 

[SterioDesign]

5 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

It’s just how you negotiate. I threaten things I have no intention of doing in negotiations all the time. You have to know what you can get away with. 

Again, I’m not saying he’s doing it, or that he has any intention or desire to play in Europe, I’m just saying, if it’s a tactic in negotiations, it’s less convincing if he’s hanging around the arena in full gear lol. 

Tell me about it.

I once threaten i'd rip my dick off and feed it to my uncle's cows if i didn't get a raise. I didn't get it.

ultimately i think it was just a bad timing

Edited December 31, 2020 by SterioDesign

[Nicomo]

3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Tell me about it.

I once threaten i'd rip my dick out and feed it to my uncle's cows if i didn't get a raise. I didn't get it.

ultimately i think it was just a bad timing

[mfitz804]

7 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Tell me about it.

I once threaten i'd rip my dick off and feed it to my uncle's cows if i didn't get a raise. I didn't get it.

ultimately i think it was just a bad timing

Hey at least the cow wasn’t hungry. 

[NJDfan1711]

4 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Yeah, my reaction to that was essentially the same.  

[NJDfan1711]

10 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

It’s just how you negotiate. I threaten things I have no intention of doing in negotiations all the time. You have to know what you can get away with. 

Again, I’m not saying he’s doing it, or that he has any intention or desire to play in Europe, I’m just saying, if it’s a tactic in negotiations, it’s less convincing if he’s hanging around the arena in full gear lol. 

Of course, but unlike Sterio's example where he threatened to...rip his dick off apparently lol...and he could simply just decide not do it if he didn't get his raise, if Bratt tries to strongarm them he would likely end up in Europe rather than the NHL.  You and I have been around the block a few times, whereas Bratt is so young, and depending on who is agent is (assuming he has other clients and has done this a bunch of times), I guess I just feel like they would take the approach of "hey, you're young, you'll have plenty of time to negotiate during your career, for now just be grateful and take what you can go, so shut up and go play hockey" lol.   I definitely understand the other side if it though and it wouldn't surprise me a ton if they haggled a bit. 

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Hey at least the cow wasn’t hungry. 

Actually, he was probably still hungry after. 😉

[mfitz804]

6 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Of course, but unlike Sterio's example where he threatened to...rip his dick off apparently lol...and he could simply just decide not do it if he didn't get his raise, if Bratt tries to strongarm them he would likely end up in Europe rather than the NHL.  You and I have been around the block a few times, whereas Bratt is so young, and depending on who is agent is (assuming he has other clients and has done this a bunch of times), I guess I just feel like they would take the approach of "hey, you're young, you'll have plenty of time to negotiate during your career, for now just be grateful and take what you can go, so shut up and go play hockey" lol.   I definitely understand the other side if it though and it wouldn't surprise me a ton if they haggled a bit. 

There are two possible reasons a deal isn’t done. The team didn’t offer one, or one or both sides are arguing dollars and cents. And I don’t think he went RFA without discussions having happened, nor did we get to a point two weeks before the season without a deal being discussed. So to me, that means a problem with the negotiations. 

[Devil Dan 56]

https://www.nhl.com/devils/news/release-plymouth-rock-assurance-to-sponsor-devils-training-camp/c-319915642?fbclid=IwAR3PtNdAaX63zpWgwfuHKQtD6G9kKOjazTRAVgnzD4u3D2K--tvXpP5arbM

 

Looks like the Devils are going big on access for training camp

[jagknife]

2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Hey at least the cow wasn’t hungry. 

I mean tic-tacs arent very filling...