New Jersey Devils 2020(ish)-2021 Season

[mfitz804]

That’s why he has so many of these:

 

[titans04]

36 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

TRIGGER WARNING: stats alert. 

 

It would be great if a few more of these could be successful.

Lots of Devils on the right hand side. Lindy emphasising puck possession but that is a lot of turnovers for a team. 

 

 

I'll admit it, I love a good dump.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

49 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

That’s why he has so many of these:

 

Cheers mate, just started a diet and now all I can think about is pastries and the state of my laminate flooring. 

26 minutes ago, titans04 said:

 

I'll admit it, I love a good dump.

By the looks of things the Devil's have been constipated all season. 

[MadDog2020]

2 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

TRIGGER WARNING: stats alert. 

 

It would be great if a few more of these could be successful.

Lots of Devils on the right hand side. Lindy emphasising puck possession but that is a lot of turnovers for a team. 

 

That graph is..... something lol.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

That graph is..... something lol.

If by something you mean a pile of sh!t made from hockey team logos, I’m right there with you. 

[Nicomo]

5 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

That’s why he has so many of these:

 

He’s also #1 in the league for takeaways with 47 though...

some of the guys right behind him;

Mark Stone, Auston Matthews, Leon Draisaitl, Sidney Crosby, Mitch Marner...

Pretty good company, no? 

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

He’s also #1 in the league for takeaways with 47 though...

some of the guys right behind him;

Mark Stone, Auston Matthews, Leon Draisaitl, Sidney Crosby, Mitch Marner...

Pretty good company, no? 

Those guys manage to keep it and/or put it in the net though. 

[Nicomo]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Those guys manage to keep it and/or put it in the net though. 

Well, yeah. Not sure what that has to do with my point though. Yes, Jack turns the puck over a lot, but he also leads the league in takeaways. You have to take the good with the bad. 

[mfitz804]

8 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Well, yeah. Not sure what that has to do with my point though. Yes, Jack turns the puck over a lot, but he also leads the league in takeaways. You have to take the good with the bad. 

I know, but you compared him to a ton of guys that also know how to finish. I know you like to cherry pick stats to make Jack look like he is dominating the league, but he’s not. Leading the league in takeaways is great. Leading the league in giveaways (or being close, not sure exactly where he is), is not. There are times he needs to pass or dump rather than carrying the puck in and being stripped at the blue line. 

I don’t get why you think it’s only fair to comment on what he does right and not the many things he does wrong. You also have to take the bad with the good. It’s ok to mention that he’s a turnover factory. 

And, what you said had nothing to do with MY point, actually. I said he turns the puck over a lot because he only carries it in and never dumps it in. You then brought up takeaways, which are irrelevant to that topic. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by mfitz804

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

16 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I know, but you compared him to a ton of guys that also know how to finish. I know you like to cherry pick stats to make Jack look like he is dominating the league, but he’s not. Leading the league in takeaways is great. Leading the league in giveaways (or being close, not sure exactly where he is), is not. There are times he needs to pass or dump rather than carrying the puck in and being stripped at the blue line. 

I don’t get why you think it’s only fair to comment on what he does right and not the many things he does wrong. You also have to take the bad with the good. It’s ok to mention that he’s a turnover factory. 

And, what you said had nothing to do with MY point, actually. 

In the comments section people were trying to spin this stst as a good thing. Which clearly it isn't, it's great that he is trying to carry the puck, but it needs to be successful. Another thing you hope happens over time. 

The reason I posted this wasn't to start another argument, but because there are a lot of Devils on that chart , I know Lindy values puck possession, but is this in some way driven by the fact that he doesn't feel we have the players to actually win a battle if the puck is dumped in. 

And is this something we need to address/change going forward to be successful? 

[mfitz804]

Just now, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

In the comments section people were trying to spin this stst as a good thing. Which clearly it isn't, it's great that he is trying to carry the puck, but it needs to be successful. Another thing you hope happens over time. 

The reason I posted this wasn't to start another argument, but because there are a lot of Devils on that chart , I know Lindy values puck possession, but is this in some way driven by the fact that he doesn't feel we have the players to actually win a battle if the puck is dumped in. 

And is this something we need to address/change going forward to be successful? 

Agree totally. That’s exactly what I pointed out (I used a GIF, but the point was the same). He needs to learn when to carry and when to dump it pass. Sometimes he makes a nice move and eludes the defender, sometimes he runs right into them and they strip him of the puck immediately. 

The latter scenario is not good and happens too frequently. And yes, it will happen over time, and that comes from him learning the right thing to do.

Not really sure why pointing that out has to cause a debate about takeaways, but it is what it is. 

[Nicomo]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I know, but you compared him to a ton of guys that also know how to finish. I know you like to cherry pick stats to make Jack look like he is dominating the league, but he’s not. Leading the league in takeaways is great. Leading the league in giveaways (or being close, not sure exactly where he is), is not. There are times he needs to pass or dump rather than carrying the puck in and being stripped at the blue line. 

I don’t get why you think it’s only fair to comment on what he does right and not the many things he does wrong. You also have to take the bad with the good. It’s ok to mention that he’s a turnover factory. 

And, what you said had nothing to do with MY point, actually. I said he turns the puck over a lot because he only carries it in and never dumps it in. You then brought up takeaways, which are irrelevant to that topic. 

*sigh*

It’s not “cherry-picking” anything. If he’s leading the league in takeaways (I love how you don’t even believe me but here you go)

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=2020-21+nhl+takeaway+leaders

https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?category=defense&sort=ta&season=2020&seasonType=reg&sortOrder=desc

then that counters a lot of the giveaways. Pretty simple. And I know all you really look at is goals and assists, but every time he steals the puck he’s taking away a chance for the other team to score. Him “not knowing how to finish” doesn’t mean it’s any less valuable. It’s a 200 foot game, and he’s been fantastic in that regard all season. But god forbid we focus on something that puts him in a category with the best players in the league. Can’t have that.

[mfitz804]

The issue is, the two are opposites but have zero to do with each other. You brought it up to defend your boy because you can’t take it when anyone criticizes him.

Nobody was talking about takeaways, and more takeaways doesn’t make up for all of his giveaways unless they come immediately after and he takes the puck back. One doesn’t make up for the other, you’re still giving away opportunities, especially where the takeaways don’t lead to much. But I’m sure you think that’s everyone else on the team’s fault and not Jack’s. 

I didn’t not believe you about the takeaways, everyone knows that, they even mentioned it in the last game. It’s cherry picking because you took an irrelevant positive stat to try to disprove that his many, many turnovers due to not knowing when to release the puck are a bad thing. It’s what you do any time someone points out negative aspects of Jack’s game. 

Talking about him finishing was because once again you thought you’d compare him to guys who are far more elite than he is, like when you said he was the only one who could make the zone entries he does who isn’t named McDavid. 

We can talk about positives all you want. Negatives are also fair game. But when discussing giveaways, saying “yeah but he leads the league in takeaways” is a desperate attempt to show him in a positive light despite the fact that it wasn’t the topic of conversation and had nothing to do with the topic of conversation. That’s cherry picking. 

 

[Nicomo]

And if you look at that second link, Jack does have the most giveaways out of that group with 63, but he doesn’t have the worst TA/GA ratio on that list. He’s been better than both Draisaitl and Marner in that regard. Look, all I’m doing by pointing out things like that is trying to show how encouraging it is that he’s in such good company at anything at his age. Does he need to clean up the giveaways a bit? Sure, but you also don’t want him to change his game up too much. You can live with a bad pass here and there when the kid has like 15 shot attempts a game. 

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

And if you look at that second link, Jack does have the most giveaways out of that group with 63, but he doesn’t have the worst TA/GA ratio on that list. He’s been better than both Draisaitl and Marner in that regard. Look, all I’m doing by pointing out things like that is trying to show how encouraging it is that he’s in such good company at anything at his age. Does he need to clean up the giveaways a bit? Sure, but you also don’t want him to change his game up too much. You can live with a bad pass here and there when the kid has like 15 shot attempts a game. 

Again, bad passes were not the issue, it was not dumping the puck in instead of getting stripped at the blue line. 

I guess he’s a better player than Draisaitl and Marner, that’s good. 

 

Showing he’s doing positive things is great, but you feel the need to do it any time anyone says anything negative about him. And there are negatives about his play this season. 

You already know how I feel about “shot attempts”. 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by mfitz804

[Nicomo]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

The issue is, the two are opposites but have zero to do with each other. You brought it up to defend your boy because you can’t take it when anyone criticizes him.

Nobody was talking about takeaways, and more takeaways doesn’t make up for all of his giveaways unless they come immediately after and he takes the puck back. One doesn’t make up for the other, you’re still giving away opportunities, especially where the takeaways don’t lead to much. But I’m sure you think that’s everyone else on the team’s fault and not Jack’s. 

I didn’t not believe you about the takeaways, everyone knows that, they even mentioned it in the last game. It’s cherry picking because you took an irrelevant positive stat to try to disprove that his many, many turnovers due to not knowing when to release the puck are a bad thing. It’s what you do any time someone points out negative aspects of Jack’s game. 

Talking about him finishing was because once again you thought you’d compare him to guys who are far more elite than he is, like when you said he was the only one who could make the zone entries he does who isn’t named McDavid. 

We can talk about positives all you want. Negatives are also fair game. But when discussing giveaways, saying “yeah but he leads the league in takeaways” is a desperate attempt to show him in a positive light despite the fact that it wasn’t the topic of conversation and had nothing to do with the topic of conversation. That’s cherry picking. 

 

If I go out of my way to “desperately paint him in a good light” then you certainly go out of your way to sh!t on him every chance you get. So which ones worse? Trying to look at the positives on an up and coming young player? Or just harping on the negatives? Is there not enough else to be negative about with this team? Isn’t Jack Hughes one of the few things we should actually be able to feel good about? I guess not. Silly me. 

[mfitz804]

Just now, Nicomo said:

If I go out of my way to “desperately paint him in a good light” then you certainly go out of your way to sh!t on him every chance you get. So which ones worse? Trying to look at the positives on an up and coming young player? Or just harping on the negatives? Is there not enough else to be negative about with this team? Isn’t Jack Hughes one of the few things we should actually be able to feel good about? I guess not. Silly me. 

Do I? Or did I point out that the negative star that someone else posted is the cause of him having so many giveaways, which is totally true. 

You’re entirely missing the point. You can feel good about him all you like. That doesn’t mean there aren’t negative aspects of his game, and it doesn’t mean that people can’t discuss them. But we can’t, not without you starting this debate for the millionth time. 

But, if it wasn’t obvious, debate doesn't bother me, I have no problem discussing Jack’s positives (takeaways) or his negatives (giveaways, scoring, his awful haircut, and his ill fitting helmet). 
 

 

[Guadana]

Burns was league leader in giveaways when he score 29 goals. When player make A LOT, he makes a lot of mistakes. Especially if we are talking about not celke candidates. There a lot of successful players in league leaders in giveaways. Historically. 
Hughes is in couple steps away from big numbers. There are no need in special stats to see that. 

[mfitz804]

I agree that he is a couple steps away and that his future is bright. I don’t think that prohibits me from talking about negative aspects of his game now. Other people seem to think that it should.

[DevsMan84]

I often find that the same people who crap on players who create a lot but make a lot of defensive mistakes like Laine will often excuse the same sort of thing with Hughes.

Not trying to knock Hughes, but the flip-flopping of the narrative regarding high-end players is very interesting.

 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

29 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I often find that the same people who crap on players who create a lot but make a lot of defensive mistakes like Laine will often excuse the same sort of thing with Hughes.

Not trying to knock Hughes, but the flip-flopping of the narrative regarding high-end players is very interesting.

 

I think it's to do with his age, and the fact he is one of our own, people get more protective. 

If he is still makeing the same mistakes and putting up the same numbers by the time he is Laine's age then I think some of that protectiveness will begin to wear off. 

I can also see why others are frustrated, the two drafts where we have had the first pick, the guy right at the top has been solid with a good ceiling but not elite off the bat. Especially with Nico , the two drafts before being the generational McDavid and a close to it Mathews. 

[mfitz804]

A lot of it is because of his age. But that’s just explaining why the holes in his game exist, it doesn’t mean they don’t exist. It’s fair game to tall about players’ current performance. 

[DevsMan84]

7 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

I think it's to do with his age, and the fact he is one of our own, people get more protective. 

If he is still makeing the same mistakes and putting up the same numbers by the time he is Laine's age then I think some of that protectiveness will begin to wear off. 

I can also see why others are frustrated, the two drafts where we have had the first pick, the guy right at the top has been solid with a good ceiling but not elite off the bat. Especially with Nico , the two drafts before being the generational McDavid and a close to it Mathews. 

The age portion is brought up inconsistently too.  It seems to be brought up only when discussing the negative aspects of his game.  I think a lot of it has to do with him being one of our own.  I still don't find it to be a good excuse to throw all logic and reality out the window.

The part with Hischier that stings isn't that he isn't on the same level as Matthews, Eichel and McDavid.  The issue is that there is even a question if he was even the best player in his own draft.  Right now as it stands, he looks to be probably the 4th best player in his draft class.

Just now, MB3 said:

If the Devils can acquire Laine for anyone not named Nico, Jack, Ty, Holtz, or this upcoming 1st round pick -- they absolutely must make that trade.

A shoot first, shoot second, shoot third, shoot fourth player like Laine is exactly what Jack Hughes needs on his line. We already have Nico locking down the other team's top line, let's let Jack go out there and put up points. 

Bratt-Nico-Holtz

Laine-Hughes-Sharangovich

droooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.

I'd trade Nico for Laine straight up.

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I'd trade Nico for Laine straight up.

I almost feel like you would have to and I really don't want to trade Nico. I hope this offer is never made. 

[DevsMan84]

1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

I almost feel like you would have to and I really don't want to trade Nico. I hope this offer is never made. 

Right age, know he can produce, insurance if either Foote, Mercer or Holtz doesn't pan out.