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New Jersey Devils 2020(ish)-2021 Season


mfitz804
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5 minutes ago, MB3 said:

It isn’t “all their fault” but anyone with eyes and half a brain can tell after watching Jack’s season that:

1. He may have not been quite NHL ready, especially because of his body. BUT;

2. If he’s on a line with actual NHL hockey players, maybe they finish a good handful of those incredible chances set up by those zone entries.

Right. That's pretty much what I said. Does that mean I have eyes and half a brain, or you do, or both of us?

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1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Right. That's pretty much what I said. Does that mean I have eyes and half a brain, or you do, or both of us?

The sentence "Thus far, Jack has not proven to be able to turn his zone entries into anything" to me, a human with eyes and half a brain (but only barely), implies a more-than-reasonable amount of blame falling on the shoulders of the literal child the future of this franchise depends on. 

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1 hour ago, MB3 said:

2. If he’s on a line with actual NHL hockey players, maybe they finish a good handful of those incredible chances set up by those zone entries.

The amount of potential highlight-reel-calibur assists and setups that were ruined by any combination of Simmonds / Palmieri / whoever else... 

People are way overthinking this stuff about Jack.  He's a dynamic player and if he had a player on his wing that could keep up he would've had 40+ points last season.

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45 minutes ago, MB3 said:

The sentence "Thus far, Jack has not proven to be able to turn his zone entries into anything" to me, a human with eyes and half a brain (but only barely), implies a more-than-reasonable amount of blame falling on the shoulders of the literal child the future of this franchise depends on. 

And then I said there was a bit of hyperbole in that statement, so I had already dialed that back, and that wasn’t the post you quoted. 

You quoted the one where I said that some, but not all, blame goes to his line mates. Then you chimed in and said that some, but not all, blame goes to Jack. Which is the reverse part of the same thing I said. 

You’re just arguing to argue. Which is fine, clearly I love to argue. 

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31 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

The amount of potential highlight-reel-calibur assists and setups that were ruined by any combination of Simmonds / Palmieri / whoever else... 

People are way overthinking this stuff about Jack.  He's a dynamic player and if he had a player on his wing that could keep up he would've had 40+ points last season.

I think if he played a full season with an MVP caliber Taylor Hall like Nico did, yes, his numbers would have been higher. For sure. That’s what great players do. The problem was, there wasn’t a great player to do that. Maybe McDavid or Crosby did that at 18 years old, but nobody is arguing that Jack is on that level at this point. 

And, I still think it’s coming. He needs to add some bulk, and he needs someone better to play with. Someone who will elevate his game, or someone whose game he can elevate. 

I don’t consider him a bust whatsoever. But I don’t think he belonged in the NHL last year. I think very few 18 year olds do. I do not like the trend that the #1 pick automatically plays in the NHL. I think Jack (and most draft picks) wild have benefitted greatly from a full season in the AHL. Not that they PLAYED a full season in the AHL or NHL last year, of course. 

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Hughes had 1 point in his last 14 games.  A majority of those games (at least 10) were with Palms and Nico.  To blame his line mates for his lack of production is hilarious.

Guys like Simmonds, Severson and Wood out-produced Jack.  That's sad no matter how you slice it.

Edited by DevsMan84
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2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Hughes had 1 point in his last 14 games.  A majority of those games (at least 10) were with Palms and Nico.  To blame his line mates for his lack of production is hilarious.

Guys like Simmonds, Severson and Wood out-produced Jack.  That's sad no matter how you slice it.

You really hate the kid, don’t you?

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33 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

You really hate the kid, don’t you?

So what I said is not true?  He was not out-produced by those guys?  He didn't score 1 point in his last 14 games?  Stating facts about him is seen as hate but comparing everything he does to the best player in the NHL is not any sort of exaggeration?

I don't hate him, but I am not nearly ready to make declarations about how great he will be when all we have seen from him is disappointment.

I also like the ridiculous excuses about how his pitiful year was everyone else's fault but him.

Edited by DevsMan84
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2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I don't hate him, but I am not nearly ready to make declarations about how great he will be when all we have seen from him is disappointment.

I also like the ridiculous excuses about how his pitiful year was everyone else's fault but him.

yeah im kind of in between here. Im fairly disapointed but i know he might turn it around. But i'm also not blindly discarding all the red flags that i've seen either.

but i mean... this a hockey forum where common sense doesnt always apply and where bias runs almost everything lol Don't we all know that say Lafreniere has a bad season, point wise this season. None of the excuses that were used to defend Jack would apply to him suddenly and "it wouldnt be the same thing"... haha

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6 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

yeah im kind of in between here. Im fairly disapointed but i know he might turn it around. But i'm also not blindly discarding all the red flags that i've seen either.

but i mean... this a hockey forum where common sense doesnt always apply and where bias runs almost everything lol Don't we all know that say Lafreniere has a bad season, point wise this season. None of the excuses that were used to defend Jack would apply to him suddenly and "it wouldnt be the same thing"... haha

Kakko had identical ppg last season but around here he was mocked as a huge disappointment.

Not Hughes though.  Instead it's he can skate as good as McDavid lmao.

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20 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

So what I said is not true?  He was not out-produced by those guys?  He didn't score 1 point in his last 14 games?  Stating facts about him is seen as hate but comparing everything he does to the best player in the NHL is not any sort of exaggeration?

I don't hate him, but I am not nearly ready to make declarations about how great he will be when all we have seen from him is disappointment.

I also like the ridiculous excuses about how his pitiful year was everyone else's fault but him.

I'm with you here.  I certainly don't hate the kid but he was bad, real bad by some advanced stats apparently that popped up around here I believe within the last couple of weeks.  Second worst in the league only to Kakko in one category if I remember right.  Doesn't mean I hate him by any means, when he's bad he hurts the team I've been loyal to my whole adult life. The team I want to succeed . So I take no pleasure in seeing him struggle. I too don't think he even deserved to be up here the whole season based on his play. At the same time I'm not going to blame everybody else on the team for his play.

That said I don't think anybody is writing him off nor should they. He has a lot to prove and hopefully he'll take a few steps forward this season, time will tell over the next few seasons what type of NHL player he truly is.

He and Kakko were both bad the only difference being I don't give a sh!t about Kakko.

 

Edited by titans04
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Just now, titans04 said:

I'm with you here.  I certainly don't hate the kid but he was bad, real bad by some advanced stats apparently that popped up around here I believe within the last couple of weeks.  Second worst in the league only to Kakko in one category if I remember right.  Doesn't mean I hate him by any means, when he's bad he hurts the team I've been loyal to my whole adult life. The team I want to succeed . So I take no pleasure in seeing him struggle. I too don't think he even deserved to be up here the whole season based on his play. At the same time I'm not going to blame everybody else on the team for his play.

That said I don't think anybody is writing him off nor should they. He has a lot to prove and hopefully he'll take a few steps forward this season, time will tell over the next few seasons what type of NHL player he truly is.

 

I 100% agree with you.  I don't take some kind of pleasure from seeing him not doing well as that hurts the Devils.  That's cutting my nose off to spite my face.

At the same time, I won't pretend to have a crystal ball and declare that he will be better like so many Devils fans seem to possess.  I hope he does but I am more than slightly concerned based on what I saw last season. 

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2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I 100% agree with you.  I don't take some kind of pleasure from seeing him not doing well as that hurts the Devils.  That's cutting my nose off to spite my face.

At the same time, I won't pretend to have a crystal ball and declare that he will be better like so many Devils fans seem to possess.  I hope he does but I am more than slightly concerned based on what I saw last season. 

Yeah to me this is where it is. There is very fair reasons to at least have some doubts. Championship is a team award and i'll always say this... But he's supposed to be a leader and he couldn't lead an absolute stacked him further than bronze medal at the world juniors. Other players who played in the development programs that were picked first overall also went to play in other leagues before. He stayed and stacked points there against lesser competition.

We knew his size could be a problem and we literally saw it.

All things that could be irrelevant if he's turning it around. He was already not projected to be a Crosby, McDavid, Matthews... and he didnt even live up to that in his first season. So to be on either extreme right now... either calling him a bust or being in denial that there's reasons to be concerned is straight up denial. Lets stick in the middle and see what he does

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4 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Hughes had 1 point in his last 14 games.  A majority of those games (at least 10) were with Palms and Nico.  To blame his line mates for his lack of production is hilarious.

Guys like Simmonds, Severson and Wood out-produced Jack.  That's sad no matter how you slice it.

Also Pavel Zacha, and by a lot. The only forwards he outscored were Rooney, who played only 49 games and Anderson, who played 18. 

Again, doesn’t mean he’s a bust or he won’t be a great player at some point. But he had a sh!t season and was outperformed by at least two guys that everyone things are done or never really got started (Simmonds & Wood). 

His zone entries don’t make me feel better about that. Maybe one day they will. 

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2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

So what I said is not true?  He was not out-produced by those guys?  He didn't score 1 point in his last 14 games?  Stating facts about him is seen as hate but comparing everything he does to the best player in the NHL is not any sort of exaggeration?

I don't hate him, but I am not nearly ready to make declarations about how great he will be when all we have seen from him is disappointment.

I also like the ridiculous excuses about how his pitiful year was everyone else's fault but him.

The facts are the facts, but you just seem to dislike him. His pitiful year had enough to do with him, but if you wanna go ahead and ignore a couple of legit underlying factors (such as the sh!tbag linemates he was saddled with a great amount of the time, most of whom couldn’t score into the ocean if they were standing on a pier, or his being built like a 12-year old), go ahead. Just seems like there are a few people just about ready to give up on Hughes after one season, which is asinine.

Edited by MadDog2020
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 Jack had some moments, but he was definitely a big disappointment in a season that was a sea of disappointments. I'm in no way counting him out. I think he used this season to figure out that he had a lot to learn.  Hopefully he put on some muscle like Nico did in his first offseason and comes in ready to take a big step. 

I'm not anointing him a McDavid level chosen one, but I'm definitely intrigued at the looks of him, Holtz, Smith, etc all together. 

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31 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

 Jack had some moments, but he was definitely a big disappointment in a season that was a sea of disappointments. I'm in no way counting him out. I think he used this season to figure out that he had a lot to learn.  Hopefully he put on some muscle like Nico did in his first offseason and comes in ready to take a big step. 

I'm not anointing him a McDavid level chosen one, but I'm definitely intrigued at the looks of him, Holtz, Smith, etc all together. 

I agree with all of this. McDavid was already McDavid at Jack’s age and he’ll never be at that level. But he can still be an elite star in the league. 

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6 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Hughes had 1 point in his last 14 games.  A majority of those games (at least 10) were with Palms and Nico.  To blame his line mates for his lack of production is hilarious.

Guys like Simmonds, Severson and Wood out-produced Jack.  That's sad no matter how you slice it.

The 18 year old kid hit a slight lull at the tail end of his first grueling NHL season after creating tons of chances prior in the season? Trade that bust!!

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7 minutes ago, devlman said:

The 18 year old kid hit a slight lull at the tail end of his first grueling NHL season after creating tons of chances prior in the season? Trade that bust!!

In 61 NHL games no less, mind you - that's more/less the most games he had played for a team in one season. 

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