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New Jersey Devils 2020(ish)-2021 Season


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5 hours ago, Guadana said:

Technically Stefan has more points than Hughes. Thornton has the worst first season for 1 OA. 
 

 

When I would bring up Thornton here you would have thought I was going all the way back the original 6 for an example by the way a few people responded. Fact is he’s a HoF player who’s still playing and had a horrendous rookie season. We can get into how much he played, and all the other circumstances, but I think it’s a fair thing to look at when trying to remain hopeful about Jack.

And hell, maybe not #1OA’s but there’s been a bunch of guys who were drafted really high (2,3,etc), that had rough starts and are now superstars. Draisaitl is going to win the Hart this year, and he had 9 points in 37 GP his rookie season. 

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i will donate $5 to the website if you literally never do this again. 

Dare I say he’s.... jacked? 🤪

lol    

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55 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed. I’m not freaking out. But it’s fair comment to say he sucked last season. 

It would not be fair to label him a bust because of it. 

I guess it just surprises me that anyone feels the need to point that out...

It’s undeniable. And this whole thing between you and all I started because I brought a couple areas of his game in a positive light (skating and zone entries). But then that turned into “resulted in nothing” and “worst #1 ever!.” It would just be nice to talk about him as a player once in a while without the obvious having to be stated over and over. Literally everyone knows his season sucked. 

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1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

I guess it just surprises me that anyone feels the need to point that out...

It’s undeniable. And this whole thing between you and all I started because I brought a couple areas of his game in a positive light (skating and zone entries). But then that turned into “resulted in nothing” and “worst #1 ever!.” It would just be nice to talk about him as a player once in a while without the obvious having to be stated over and over. Literally everyone knows his season sucked. 

I don’t know why you think that you should be the arbiter of what should or shouldn’t be said on a message board. “Literally everyone” hates the Rangers, we post about that all the time. “Literally everyone” knew Hynes sucked, it was all we talked about for years.

Posts about a guy’s performance (good or bad) should be fair comment.  Isn’t that what a message board is for?It’s quite honestly what happens on this board every day, but when it comes to Jack, you can’t tolerate it. 

Limiting conversation on a message board to things that “literally everyone” doesn’t know would make this the most boring site on Earth. 

 

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36 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I don’t know why you think that you should be the arbiter of what should or shouldn’t be said on a message board. “Literally everyone” hates the Rangers, we post about that all the time. “Literally everyone” knew Hynes sucked, it was all we talked about for years.

Posts about a guy’s performance (good or bad) should be fair comment.  Isn’t that what a message board is for?It’s quite honestly what happens on this board every day, but when it comes to Jack, you can’t tolerate it. 

Limiting conversation on a message board to things that “literally everyone” doesn’t know would make this the most boring site on Earth. 

 

Nvm. Not worth it. See below. 

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I do think you were trying to start some actual discussion with this thread though, so good on you for that. I’ll refrain from going back and forth with you over the Jack stuff any further. 

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9 minutes ago, Guadana said:

Good video with an analysis and criticism of Hughes' game.

Some here are going to turn that off rather quickly since he brings up how good Jack’s advanced stats were right off the bat lol

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33 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I do think you were trying to start some actual discussion with this thread though, so good on you for that. I’ll refrain from going back and forth with you over the Jack stuff any further. 

Defeats the purpose of a message board in my opinion, back and forth is kind of what it’s about, but that’s fine. 

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Just now, mfitz804 said:

Defeats the purpose of a message board in my opinion, back and forth is kind of what it’s about, but that’s fine. 

Yes, but not rehashing the same exact discussion a million times. It’s not very productive (or interesting). 

I’d rather address the questions in your OP. We’ve covered the disaster that was this season ad nauseam. 

As for next season it’s so hard to predict without knowing what the team will look like, and who he’ll be playing with, but I expect to see Jack take a nice step forward. Hopefully at least 50 points, and some added strength and size (maybe 5-10 lbs?). I really hope Ruff keeps him at Center. I thought he looked even worse on the wing. 

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1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

I guess it just surprises me that anyone feels the need to point that out...

It is tiresome that out of an entire organization of underachievers last year, from top management to the guy that puts the Bud Light logo on the ice, the main talking point always seems to be the 18 year old kid who, as far as I know, is one of only a few to even jump from the USNTDP to the NHL. The whole season was fvcked after the second period of game 1. Let people who are gonna worry be worried-- I just try to ignore those posts. 

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21 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Some here are going to turn that off rather quickly since he brings up how good Jack’s advanced stats were right off the bat lol

you should have hidden this text under the "spoiler" box.

 

I dont think that Jack svcked last season. His stats svcked, but he`s not. I know everybody like to jerk off to numbers in the draft. This is just an assessment of the desire to take the player earlier. 
Positions in the draft do not give anything, do not guarantee anything. People evaluate players based on their positions in the draft, but in fact these positions are only a tribute to previous achievements earned in other leagues. People get confused about cause and effect. In the NHL, a specific game that requires certain competencies from different levels of talent. It seems to me that it is much more appropriate to evaluate players based on the development of similar talents, complexion and responsibilities. How quickly have small, fast, and skinny playmakers developed in the NHL? What did Datsyuk show in the NHL at Jack's age? Who were the players he played with? What has he gone through to live up to the compliments he has earned with his career? Only in this way we will be able to conduct a thorough assessment.

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10 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I’d rather address the questions in your OP. We’ve covered the disaster that was this season ad nauseam. 

Well that was the thread’s intent...

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4 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

It is tiresome that out of an entire organization of underachievers last year, from top management to the guy that puts the Bud Light logo on the ice, the main talking point always seems to be the 18 year old kid who, as far as I know, is one of only a few to even jump from the USNTDP to the NHL. The whole season was fvcked after the second period of game 1. Let people who are gonna worry be worried-- I just try to ignore those posts. 

He’s actually the first and only to go from the USNTDP to the NHL.

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10 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

It is tiresome that out of an entire organization of underachievers last year, from top management to the guy that puts the Bud Light logo on the ice, the main talking point always seems to be the 18 year old kid who, as far as I know, is one of only a few to even jump from the USNTDP to the NHL. The whole season was fvcked after the second period of game 1. Let people who are gonna worry be worried-- I just try to ignore those posts. 

Let me again point out that I never said there was a reason to be worried. 

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14 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

It is tiresome that out of an entire organization of underachievers last year, from top management to the guy that puts the Bud Light logo on the ice, the main talking point always seems to be the 18 year old kid who, as far as I know, is one of only a few to even jump from the USNTDP to the NHL. The whole season was fvcked after the second period of game 1. Let people who are gonna worry be worried-- I just try to ignore those posts. 

He was literally the first to ever do it. Everyone else had either played in the CHL, Europe, or NCAA. 

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1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

He was literally the first to ever do it. Everyone else had either played in the CHL, Europe, or NCAA. 

They should make him the last one. 

😉

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6 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Let me again point out that I never said there was a reason to be worried. 

I'm speaking generally about what I read, not about you or NJDevs specifically. Just going along with the topic of conversation.

11 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

He’s actually the first and only to go from the USNTDP to the NHL.

 

Just now, Nicomo said:

He was literally the first to ever do it. Everyone else had either played in the CHL, Europe, or NCAA. 

Thanks. I was trying to find this out the other day and after about an hour of poking around I couldn't prove with certainty that he was the only one.

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15 minutes ago, Guadana said:

you should have hidden this text under the "spoiler" box.

 

I dont think that Jack svcked last season. His stats svcked, but he`s not. I know everybody like to jerk off to numbers in the draft. This is just an assessment of the desire to take the player earlier. 
Positions in the draft do not give anything, do not guarantee anything. People evaluate players based on their positions in the draft, but in fact these positions are only a tribute to previous achievements earned in other leagues. People get confused about cause and effect. In the NHL, a specific game that requires certain competencies from different levels of talent. It seems to me that it is much more appropriate to evaluate players based on the development of similar talents, complexion and responsibilities. How quickly have small, fast, and skinny playmakers developed in the NHL? What did Datsyuk show in the NHL at Jack's age? Who were the players he played with? What has he gone through to live up to the compliments he has earned with his career? Only in this way we will be able to conduct a thorough assessment.

Datysuk (one of my favorite non-Devils ever) wasn’t even in the NHL until he was 23...

The Sedin’s who went 2 & 3 and both had over 1k points in their careers had like 30 something points their rookie year. There are countless examples like this. 

And I’ve said it before I don’t worry about Jack being the next Nail Yakupov because that kid’s problems were entirely attitude and work ethic. It’s apparent that’s not going to be an issue with Jack. Just look at his parents and his brothers. 

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21 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Well that was the thread’s intent...

Which I gave you credit for. Where I went wrong was pointing out your inconsistent expectations for Smith compared to Hughes, Zacha, etc. Went downhill from there. 

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1 minute ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I'm speaking generally about what I read, not about you or NJDevs specifically. Just going along with the topic of conversation.

I appreciate that, but the problem is that the conversation is getting twisted a bit. I just wanted to make clear that it wasn’t what I said. I mean, he compared my talking about Jack to how I talk about Zacha, that’s a false narrative. I fully expect Zacha to punch me in the face if he ever reads this site. 

Well I mean he’d miss by 6 inches but he’d TRY to...

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Just now, Nicomo said:

Which I gave you credit for. Where I went wrong was pointing out your inconsistent expectations for Smith compared to Hughes, Zacha, etc. Went downhill from there. 

It’s not inconsistent at all. 

I expect Smith to make the team because he almost (Zacha pun unintentional) made it the previous two years and he has almost nobody to compete against. If he can’t beat out Dakota Mermis for a roster spot that’s very discouraging from a first round pick. I did walk that back a bit since I do think an AHL season might ultimately be to his benefit, and we don’t NEED him in the NHL from a “being competitive” standpoint, as that won’t happen either way. 

I didn’t say anything about his play, I just said he should be able to make the team. I didn’t say he was going to excel in the NHL or anything like that. I have much higher expectations of Jack as a #1 OA and the extra hype he carries as such. 

Jack had a bad year, and I said he had a bad year and I hope he improves. You can say that literally everyone wants that, but that’s what I said. The argument evolved from that. 

Zacha is a different story, he’s going into his 5th full season and he’s finally looking like he might be an ok bottom 6 guy. Yes, that’s disappointing for a guy who was drafted as high as he was. But that expectation is out the window now, a solid 3rd liner would be fine at this point. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Datysuk (one of my favorite non-Devils ever) wasn’t even in the NHL until he was 23...

The Sedin’s who went 2 & 3 and both had over 1k points in their careers had like 30 something points their rookie year. There are countless examples like this. 

And I’ve said it before I don’t worry about Jack being the next Nail Yakupov because that kid’s problems were entirely attitude and work ethic. It’s apparent that’s not going to be an issue with Jack. Just look at his parents and his brothers. 

That`s right. Datsyuk wasn`t good when he played with detroit in his first season. And best defensemen spent their time with other detroit players. He had to gain weight and work on the stability of skate. 

Henrik Sedin was 20 when he start to play in NHL. And he did not shine not only in his first season, but also in several subsequent ones.

Both Henrik and Pavel played in better teams, with better partners, with better coaches. I would wait two or three years before using the s-word.

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28 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I'm speaking generally about what I read, not about you or NJDevs specifically. Just going along with the topic of conversation.

 

Thanks. I was trying to find this out the other day and after about an hour of poking around I couldn't prove with certainty that he was the only one.

USNDTP started in 1996, these are the USA born players taken #1OA since then:

Rick DiPietro - didn’t play in program 

Erik Johnson - played NCAA after program 

Patrick Kane - played OHL after program 

Auston Matthews - played in Europe after program 

Jack Hughes - directly to the NHL 

no players taken after #1 have ever made the jump directly. 

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