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The Weird 2020 Off-Season Thread


jagknife

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Fairly apparent that kid's parents failed him, and in that way I feel a little bad for him too. No normal child wakes up one day and decides to treat another person like that. I hope for his sake, and for the sake of anyone who has to come in contact with him, he gets some real role models in his life. 

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Honestly I'm supportive of him getting another shot because people do dumb sh!t at 14...   it's funny to be shocking and when you're 14 you don't really consider the consequences of your words and the taunting that you do.   That was his wake-up call to do better.   To man up, admit what you said and did, and apologize for not treating a class mate like a fellow human being.

After all of this...  he isn't remorseful?     To the point where teams that are willing to hear him out, leave meetings with  "yea...  he isn't remorseful".
Did the kid really not have the common sense to knock it off, but continue it 2 years later at 16?   (I'm not sure what he did, but the mother references it)

In addition...  I don't want to excuse the 1980s, 1990s... and frankly even the 2000s...  but bullying and hazing were seen in a different light then.   Tricking a kid to lick something that was rubbed in a urinal is repulsive, but again, it's funny because it was shocking and repulsive...   but we as a society moved on; and certainly in 2016 it wasn't tolerated at all.    It wasn't a "different" time.

But again, none of this is NEW.   WTF is Arizona doing?    Were they that unprepared for their FIRST pick in the draft, that they took a kid they knew nothing about?     Or are they that soft that they have to renounce the pick because it was unpopular for a few days.  The sh!tstorm would blow over in time.   It was a non-event press wise when he was drafted.   It's the offseason and slow.   

The kid is a piece of sh!t, sure.  But you invested your pick in him on the cheap because of it.   Nothing new happens, and you bail?      Arizona is a mess.

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3 minutes ago, aylbert said:

Honestly I'm supportive of him getting another shot because people do dumb sh!t at 14...   it's funny to be shocking and when you're 14 you don't really consider the consequences of your words and the taunting that you do.   That was his wake-up call to do better.   To man up, admit what you said and did, and apologize for not treating a class mate like a fellow human being.

After all of this...  he isn't remorseful?     To the point where teams that are willing to hear him out, leave meetings with  "yea...  he isn't remorseful".
Did the kid really not have the common sense to knock it off, but continue it 2 years later at 16?   (I'm not sure what he did, but the mother references it)

In addition...  I don't want to excuse the 1980s, 1990s... and frankly even the 2000s...  but bullying and hazing were seen in a different light then.   Tricking a kid to lick something that was rubbed in a urinal is repulsive, but again, it's funny because it was shocking and repulsive...   but we as a society moved on; and certainly in 2016 it wasn't tolerated at all.    It wasn't a "different" time.

But again, none of this is NEW.   WTF is Arizona doing?    Were they that unprepared for their FIRST pick in the draft, that they took a kid they knew nothing about?     Or are they that soft that they have to renounce the pick because it was unpopular for a few days.  The sh!tstorm would blow over in time.   It was a non-event press wise when he was drafted.   It's the offseason and slow.   

The kid is a piece of sh!t, sure.  But you invested your pick in him on the cheap because of it.   Nothing new happens, and you bail?      Arizona is a mess.

They were stupid to select him given the current environment. They should’ve figured it out before they picked him. Like everyone else did. 

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23 minutes ago, aylbert said:

Honestly I'm supportive of him getting another shot because people do dumb sh!t at 14...   it's funny to be shocking and when you're 14 you don't really consider the consequences of your words and the taunting that you do.   That was his wake-up call to do better.   To man up, admit what you said and did, and apologize for not treating a class mate like a fellow human being.

After all of this...  he isn't remorseful?     To the point where teams that are willing to hear him out, leave meetings with  "yea...  he isn't remorseful".
Did the kid really not have the common sense to knock it off, but continue it 2 years later at 16?   (I'm not sure what he did, but the mother references it)

In addition...  I don't want to excuse the 1980s, 1990s... and frankly even the 2000s...  but bullying and hazing were seen in a different light then.   Tricking a kid to lick something that was rubbed in a urinal is repulsive, but again, it's funny because it was shocking and repulsive...   but we as a society moved on; and certainly in 2016 it wasn't tolerated at all.    It wasn't a "different" time.

But again, none of this is NEW.   WTF is Arizona doing?    Were they that unprepared for their FIRST pick in the draft, that they took a kid they knew nothing about?     Or are they that soft that they have to renounce the pick because it was unpopular for a few days.  The sh!tstorm would blow over in time.   It was a non-event press wise when he was drafted.   It's the offseason and slow.   

The kid is a piece of sh!t, sure.  But you invested your pick in him on the cheap because of it.   Nothing new happens, and you bail?      Arizona is a mess.

Agree with what you said and I know this wasn’t your point but, for the record, that sh!t wouldn’t have been tolerated in any of those decades you mentioned either, especially when it involved a mentally disabled kid. I mean sick cruelty followed by beating the sh!t out of someone is repulsive by any era’s standards and well beyond hazing. 

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13 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

They were stupid to select him given the current environment. They should’ve figured it out before they picked him. Like everyone else did. 

Armstrong cleaned house with scouting a week before the draft and he couldn’t be a part of this draft as he was preparing St Louis draft just before being hired...   it’s a real possibility they weren’t prepared for it no matter what they may say publicly.

Either way, not knowing how deep the problems were,   Or not having the backbone...   it’s yet another embarrassment for a bad franchise. 


https://www.fiveforhowling.com/platform/amp/2020/9/29/21480081/bill-armstrong-has-already-made-his-mark-on-the-arizona-coyotes-scouting-dept

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Just now, aylbert said:

Armstrong cleaned house with scouting a week before the draft and he couldn’t be a part of this draft as he was preparing St Louis draft just before being hired...   it’s a real possibility they weren’t prepared for it no matter what they may say publicly.

Either way, not knowing how deep the problems were,   Or not having the backbone...   it’s yet another embarrassment for a bad franchise. 


https://www.fiveforhowling.com/platform/amp/2020/9/29/21480081/bill-armstrong-has-already-made-his-mark-on-the-arizona-coyotes-scouting-dept

For sure. 

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Talking about 2016. My sister works at a school and she JUST shared a facebook memory from 2016 of her and a few colleges on Halloween... and one of them was fully dressed as PK Subban, full gear AND full on black face lol He probably got away with it then and i'm pretty sure he was glad it got buried since. But nope, here goes my sister digging it up like "Awww these are great memories :)

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7 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Talking about 2016. My sister works at a school and she JUST shared a facebook memory from 2016 of her and a few colleges on Halloween... and one of them was fully dressed as PK Subban, full gear AND full on black face lol He probably got away with it then and i'm pretty sure he was glad it got buried since. But nope, here goes my sister digging it up like "Awww these are great memories :)

Were you more offended by the blackface or by the fact that someone wanted to be Subban for Halloween?

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I actually think this kid could get another chance to make the NHL someday...but it depends entirely on what he's willing to do.  It goes without saying that first and foremost, he FINALLY apologizes to that poor kid for all of the abuse that he heaped on him (though it will ring hollow with many at this point, including the victim's family, and I can see why they'd feel that way).  

But if I'm Miller...I step away from the game for a year...show everyone that I realize how badly I fvcked up, and that all I want to do is work on myself for the next year of my life...and then really DO it.  No form letters apologizing to everyone except the person and his family for making his life pure hell, in some attempt to keep his career train moving.  Make sacrifices.  Lay low.  Re-emerge as contrite, apologetic, and ready to take some well-deserved lumps.  And when people take you to task for your past (and they will)...fully own it.  Own up to it.  If you're truly a different person who's bettered himself, people will eventually see it, and some of them will be willing to give you a second chance.  But you also have to be willing to accept that with big mistakes, come big consequences.  And that means some people will never see you as anything more than that 14-16 year old who repeatedly made someone who couldn't truly defend himself miserable.  Miller will never be able to make this right with some people, and he'll have to live with that. 

13 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

This is so damn dumb. The kid was fvcking 14 years old. If we'd be judged by things we did or said at 14 we'd be all be fvcked.

Again this all comes from the pressure from hungry mobs that just can't wait for the next opportunity to feed their virtue signalling need.

To "destroy" those people who made a mistake just comes from a bitter place vs trying to surround and support then into learning to be better or something.

The problem with this initial post is that it's 100% reactionary with no research having been done...seriously, all you had to do is type "Mitchell Miller" in a search engine, and you would have seen exactly what this kid did, and how this wasn't just some case of some 14-year-old stealing some money or shoplifting, raiding daddy's liquor cabinet and winding up in the hospital, egging a bunch of houses, or hurling a racial slur once or twice in one or two isolated bullying incidents (and then through teaching and discipline never ever makes that mistake again). 

Guadana is right when he made his "SD, how can you be so much... SD everywhere" comment...sometimes you post without thinking things through...yes, you followed up with "I'll eat crow if I'm wrong", yada yada yada...but if you hadn't taken a "This is just another hungry mob looking for fresh meat" stance right off the bat, and simply done some homework, you wouldn't have put yourself in a position to eat crow.  You say you're glad that you didn't judge the kid initially, but instead, you immediately judged those who took him to task as having done so from some bitter place, and the Coyotes for buckling to pressure.  It's just a very poorly thought-out viewpoint (and to be clear, I'm not just saying this because YOU posted this...I would feel the same way regardless of who tried to forward such an idea).   

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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13 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

 

oh sh!t i only saw the TSN article. Didn't realized it was a different article that was quoted in here.

So yeah i see it now and it was clearly racist in that case with the racial slurs he used and all.

So yeah, fvck that kid in this case but i still hope he's surrounded by the right people to make him step in the right direction.

I'm still glad i gave him the benefit of the doubt until i had all the details though. It's something our society could benefit greatly from that at the moment. 

Real self high five moment here.  You didn't give him the benefit of the doubt, you blindly rushed to the opposition.

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26 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Miller also was prosecuted and actually plead guilty to assault and other charges. This isn’t normal “kids being kids” stuff. How many of us got prosecuted for assault at age 14?

In a way I feel a lil sorry for the kid. Also a little sad that throughout his life this will affect his employment let alone hockey. We all did stupid sh>t when we were teenagers. That was beyond the pale. I'm sure he's sorry what went down.  He shouldn't have to pay for this every day for the rest of his life. 

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Boo fvcking hoo. Let him go work at a car wash, or in an a warehouse or something. If this ends up costing him the opportunity to play a game for a living and make millions of dollars I say that’s what he gets. It’s not going to stop him from making a living. And he’s not sorry for what he did (that’s the mother of the victim’s point), he’s sorry he’s having to deal with the fallout from it. 

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48 minutes ago, vadvlfan said:

In a way I feel a lil sorry for the kid. Also a little sad that throughout his life this will affect his employment let alone hockey. We all did stupid sh>t when we were teenagers. That was beyond the pale. I'm sure he's sorry what went down.  He shouldn't have to pay for this every day for the rest of his life. 

Safe to say there's different levels of "stupid sh!t" (I alluded to that in my previous post).  Can't write off EVERY mistake made as a teenager (especially ones made over and over again, as was the case here) as "Oh, he was just a kid, they all do stupid things."  I know a hell of a lot of 14-year-olds who wouldn't dream of doing Miller's kind of "stupid sh!t", even if they sometimes get into trouble otherwise.

And as Nicomo referenced, why didn't he ever apologize to the victim or his family?  He had plenty of time to do so.  Would've definitely helped.

Certain parties will likely never forgive him or give him another chance, but if he works really hard at it, and is genuinely committed to learning from his mistakes and becoming a (much) better person, he can forge a good life for himself.  But it's going to take a lot of effort on his part, coupled with the realization that he's going to have to accept some harsh criticism, without become defensive or angry about it.  He put himself here.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone can find redemption.  It does not give you a clean slate, nor excludes you from consequence.

He could have used that situation to become a better person.   Instead, it appears from the victims parents, the judge, and several NHL teams he has not grown from it.

His time is fleeting to learn from this.   He honestly should have given a heartfelt apology to the kid a long time ago, and to the public when this blew up.   
 

He can’t step away from the game for the year and expect to come back.   He needs to work hard at his game, but more importantly character.   He needs to show he is worthy of redemption and that stars with the kid and his family.

But again, and I can’t stress this enough, Arizona is an absolute disaster of a franchise. 

 

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3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I actually think this kid could get another chance to make the NHL someday...but it depends entirely on what he's willing to do.  It goes without saying that first and foremost, he FINALLY apologizes to that poor kid for all of the abuse that he heaped on him (though it will ring hollow with many at this point, including the victim's family, and I can see why they'd feel that way).  

But if I'm Miller...I step away from the game for a year...show everyone that I realize how badly I fvcked up, and that all I want to do is work on myself for the next year of my life...and then really DO it.  No form letters apologizing to everyone except the person and his family for making his life pure hell, in some attempt to keep his career train moving.  Make sacrifices.  Lay low.  Re-emerge as contrite, apologetic, and ready to take some well-deserved lumps.  And when people take you to task for your past (and they will)...fully own it.  Own up to it.  If you're truly a different person who's bettered himself, people will eventually see it, and some of them will be willing to give you a second chance.  But you also have to be willing to accept that with big mistakes, come big consequences.  And that means some people will never see you as anything more than that 14-16 year old who repeatedly made someone who couldn't truly defend himself miserable.  Miller will never be able to make this right with some people, and he'll have to live with that. 

The problem with this initial post is that it's 100% reactionary with no research having been done...seriously, all you had to do is type "Mitchell Miller" in a search engine, and you would have seen exactly what this kid did, and how this wasn't just some case of some 14-year-old stealing some money or shoplifting, raiding daddy's liquor cabinet and winding up in the hospital, egging a bunch of houses, or hurling a racial slur once or twice in one or two isolated bullying incidents (and then through teaching and discipline never ever makes that mistake again). 

Guadana is right when he made his "SD, how can you be so much... SD everywhere" comment...sometimes you post without thinking things through...yes, you followed up with "I'll eat crow if I'm wrong", yada yada yada...but if you hadn't taken a "This is just another hungry mob looking for fresh meat" stance right off the bat, and simply done some homework, you wouldn't have put yourself in a position to eat crow.  You say you're glad that you didn't judge the kid initially, but instead, you immediately judged those who took him to task as having done so from some bitter place, and the Coyotes for buckling to pressure.  It's just a very poorly thought-out viewpoint (and to be clear, I'm not just saying this because YOU posted this...I would feel the same way regardless of who tried to forward such an idea).   

Hey at least i owed up to it and admitted i was wrong and said that i could be wrong once i found more information. Which is more than you did lately by jumping to your own conclusions, adding words to something someone said to exaggerate it, ignored other things he said and took quotes out of context, never said that maybe you just misunderstood what he meant, instead you dug your heels that what you thought he said was the ultimate truth and ignored to answer basic questions multiple times until you "moved on" without admitting you might have been wrong.

But sure, lecture me dude you literally did it twice lately to just "stop replying" when answering basic questions could prove you wrong.

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2 hours ago, vadvlfan said:

In a way I feel a lil sorry for the kid. Also a little sad that throughout his life this will affect his employment let alone hockey. We all did stupid sh>t when we were teenagers. That was beyond the pale. I'm sure he's sorry what went down.  He shouldn't have to pay for this every day for the rest of his life. 

He got a valuable lesson, you reap what you sow. 

I did stupid things as a teenager. But even back then, I wouldn’t have done what Miller did. Quite the opposite, I was a de facto bodyguard to a developmentally disabled kid and got into numerous fights standing up for him. He basically had no friends and me and my group scooped him up and hung out with him throughout high school.

I’m pretty sure he got his first handy from one of the girls that used to hang out with us too, so yeah, he didn’t get beat up, except for his meat.

That was me at age 14 ( and thereafter) while this guy was one of the kids I would have punched in the face repeatedly for his actions. 

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2 hours ago, Crisis said:

Real self high five moment here.  You didn't give him the benefit of the doubt, you blindly rushed to the opposition.

Yeah i was reactionary one post cause that's a subject that gets my blood boiling with all the cancel culture we're seeing now. I literally caught myself literally minutes later and said that if it was bad that i'd eat crow and admit that i was wrong. Saying i could very well be wrong in all the other posts. And i did admit i was wrong at the second someone pointed out the details that i missed.

So if you rather keep your snarky stance that you usually have towards me and only focus on the 1 minutes i was reactionary vs seeing the whole thing and encouraging someone's behaviour of being able to see when your amygdala took over and made you act irrationally, recognize when it does, waiting to get all info before rushing to further judgement and who did admit he was wrong right away when information. I could have deleted or edit my post too but no i find it important to document that whole thought process and admit you're wrong rather than just going silent or editing it.

Anyway, the fact you just focus on the part i was wrong and not on the part where i admitted i was, tried to be fair and corrected it is more telling about you than me.

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3 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Miller also was prosecuted and actually plead guilty to assault and other charges. This isn’t normal “kids being kids” stuff. How many of us got prosecuted for assault at age 14?

Well i'm going to specify that im not defending the kid here, putting that aside and just going deeper based on the actual legal term "assault" pointing out that it has a wide range of possibilities, some of which are not THAT bad. “an assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.”

So from what ive been told, it can range from throwing a bottle at someone and missing... or swinging at them with an axe and missing. Big difference there. If you do make contact with them and harm the person then it's battery. So like shoving someone at the bar, getting in fights. Or hell even many sports incidents like slashing someone could technically be assault and battery. You actually just said earlier you did get in fights when you were younger, you literally could have been prosecuted for assault there.

So based on the technical aspect of it and not the reality where most of those things are not brought to court. I could actually quite a few people prosecuted for assault at a young age. 

 

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42 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah i was reactionary one post cause that's a subject that gets my blood boiling with all the cancel culture we're seeing now. I literally caught myself literally minutes later and said that if it was bad that i'd eat crow and admit that i was wrong. Saying i could very well be wrong in all the other posts. And i did admit i was wrong at the second someone pointed out the details that i missed.

So if you rather keep your snarky stance that you usually have towards me and only focus on the 1 minutes i was reactionary vs seeing the whole thing and encouraging someone's behaviour of being able to see when your amygdala took over and made you act irrationally, recognize when it does, waiting to get all info before rushing to further judgement and who did admit he was wrong right away when information. I could have deleted or edit my post too but no i find it important to document that whole thought process and admit you're wrong rather than just going silent or editing it.

Anyway, the fact you just focus on the part i was wrong and not on the part where i admitted i was, tried to be fair and corrected it is more telling about you than me.

Admitting youre wrong while smugly congratulating yourself for doing so while pointing out others don’t have that same virtuous trait that you have is probably why you got the reaction you did. Just a little advice.

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27 minutes ago, devlman said:

Admitting youre wrong while smugly congratulating yourself for doing so while pointing out others don’t have that same virtuous trait that you have is probably why you got the reaction you did. Just a little advice.

Sure and i get it.  But all we see now (not necessarily here but on social media in general) is people being virtuous and blindly spreading misinformation and what fits their personal agenda. And that's in big part why we're seeing such a huge division in society. I was the same way before but realized how problematic it was so im encouraging the right thought process. I know i can stil be wrong on specific subjects but encouraging the right thought process can't be wrong.

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14 hours ago, aylbert said:

Did the kid really not have the common sense to knock it off, but continue it 2 years later at 16?   (I'm not sure what he did, but the mother references it)

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nhl-arizona-coyotes-draft-pick-mitchell-miller-230809129.html

Quote

She also contends that even though Miller was required to stay away from her son, he would rollerblade past their house after the court case, which she took as his way of continuing to taunt Isaiah.

I'm not sure of the situation...   a slow taunting stroll; verse a quick skate down the street is very different.   As a parent, I could see it as taunting just seeing the kid on the street.

The kid is responsible for his actions for sure, but I'm going to circle back and put this on the parents too.   He was using racial slurs and taunting when they were in 2nd grade.   How was that not corrected?  How was that allowed to go on to the point it escalated even further?   This isn't "my kid would never" type of Monday morning quarterbacking here...   it's a serious problem that should have had him in counseling in 2nd grade...  

UNLESS the parents are cut from the same cloth and see nothing wrong with it.  In which case, poor kid never had a shot.

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1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah i was reactionary one post cause that's a subject that gets my blood boiling with all the cancel culture we're seeing now. I literally caught myself literally minutes later and said that if it was bad that i'd eat crow and admit that i was wrong. Saying i could very well be wrong in all the other posts. And i did admit i was wrong at the second someone pointed out the details that i missed.

So if you rather keep your snarky stance that you usually have towards me and only focus on the 1 minutes i was reactionary vs seeing the whole thing and encouraging someone's behaviour of being able to see when your amygdala took over and made you act irrationally, recognize when it does, waiting to get all info before rushing to further judgement and who did admit he was wrong right away when information. I could have deleted or edit my post too but no i find it important to document that whole thought process and admit you're wrong rather than just going silent or editing it.

Anyway, the fact you just focus on the part i was wrong and not on the part where i admitted i was, tried to be fair and corrected it is more telling about you than me.

Yeah I suppose I have been pretty snarky towards you lately.  I'm sure I had a good reason though.

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7 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Sure and i get it.  But all we see now (not necessarily here but on social media in general) is people being virtuous and blindly spreading misinformation and what fits their personal agenda. And that's in big part why we're seeing such a huge division in society. I was the same way before but realized how problematic it was so im encouraging the right thought process. I know i can stil be wrong on specific subjects but encouraging the right thought process can't be wrong.

But you did the same thing you accuse people on social media of doing. Getting on a soapbox spreading misinformation without looking at the details that were there for you to see. You’re not encouraging the right thought process, stop patting yourself on the back lol except for at least you admitted you were wrong.

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