2021 Around The League Thread

[Satans Hockey]

2 hours ago, vadvlfan said:

I understand (to a certain extent) benching any player. But, let's say Ty Smith has an bad error (pass picked off and resulted in scoring opportunity) Coach puts him out next shift (doesn't miss a shift) and we all say bravo coach. What i don't understand is why he benched the remainder of the game> He couldn't have a "sit down" between periods and say 'don't let this happen again? He had to humiliate the guy? punishment?  No chance to redeem himself? Messed up. Torts is full of himself.

Seems like this also might have had something to do with it in addition to his play... 

 

[SterioDesign]

7 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

We know what YOUR take would be, but I would say it really depends how much the Penguins think Crosby and Malkin truly have left in the tank...can they be front and center for another legitimate run or two?  Is there enough of a supporting cast around them?  Do they have some youth either on the team or up and coming?  FWIW, Crosby and Malkin are two of the oldest players on the team...it's not like the Pens are saddled with a lot of mid-30s faded vets who were brought in to keep the ship afloat, and are now too expensive and past their prime to still be useful (the Pens' average player age is right at league average).  

Crosby and Malkin are clearly special talents...Malkin's off to a slow start this year, but over the past five seasons he hasn't slowed down offensively at all, really.  I'm not saying a guy like Malkin should be 100% untouchable...more that moving him is a consideration the Pens REALLY have to think through...it's basically ushering in the end of an era.  If they truly believe that they have enough youth in the system and on the team with upside, they should probably try to make another run with Crosby and Malkin...not like that next Malkin is always right around the corner.  If they think their roster isn't up to snuff with what's in house and they simply don't want to give up any more future pieces for right now, they should deal Malkin.  He's signed through next year, so they could put this off a year if they believe that they have a legit run in them this season (their goalies are off to a brutal start...they have to deal for one if they want go all-in one last time).  

If they did make that difficult decision to move Malkin this sesaon...at they very least, along with trying to nab a prospect or two, they can try to re-stock on draft picks in 2021 (assuming a draft happens)...they only have a 2nd, 5th, and (3) 7th rounders as of today.  They still do have all of their picks for 2022 and 2023.    

 

Also keep in mind that Crosby is signed for four more years after this one.  I'm guessing they'd have to sell him on a Malkin trade being a (very) temporary step-back-to-take-a-step-forward kind of move...I'm definitely one who believes that GMs should make the personnel moves and players under contract should play, but would Crosby want to spend his remaining years in Pittsburgh if they're not trying to compete for a Cup?   

You do? what would be my take on it then? lol

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

You do? what would be my take on it then? lol

You'd want to kick the can down the road, if you weren't fully convinced that the Penguins could win a Cup this year or in the very near future.  I'm not necessarily opposed to that in this case, but the Pens have to absolutely sure that they can't find a way to squeeze more big seasons out of their team...they have obviously have a rare generational talent in Crosby, who appears to have more left in the tank, and who's still under contract for four more years...we know how hard it is to find THAT kind of talent...they were lucky as hell to have Mario and then Sidney, but who knows if they ever get another player like that?  Do they want to waste any of his remaining prime years by tearing this down too soon?

The big question is do you go all-out in trying to put a SC-contending team around him (which may cost future assets and yes, will likely eventually come back to hurt them) while he's still got good years left in him, or do you start to tear this thing down, and hope that some good signings and other moves allow you to trade a damned good player like Malkin without it setting off an extended rebuild?  And if the goal is to have Crosby finish his career as a Penguin, would he be willing to spend any time on a rebuilding team?  

It's Crosby's presence that makes this one a tough question to answer.  Like I said, guys like him are so damned hard to come by, and he's not ancient at 33.  With the new FO hires, will be very interesting to see which path they take.    

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

You'd want to kick the can down the road, if you weren't fully convinced that the Penguins could win a Cup this year or in the very near future.  I'm not necessarily opposed to that in this case, but the Pens have to absolutely sure that they can't find a way to squeeze more big seasons out of their team...they have obviously have a rare generational talent in Crosby, who appears to have more left in the tank, and who's still under contract for four more years...we know how hard it is to find THAT kind of talent...they were lucky as hell to have Mario and then Sidney, but who knows if they ever get another player like that?  Do they want to waste any of his remaining prime years by tearing this down too soon?

The big question is do you go all-out in trying to put a SC-contending team around him (which may cost future assets and yes, will likely eventually come back to hurt them) while he's still got good years left in him, or do you start to tear this thing down, and hope that some good signings and other moves allow you to trade a damned good player like Malkin without it setting off an extended rebuild?  And if the goal is to have Crosby finish his career as a Penguin, would he be willing to spend any time on a rebuilding team?  

It's Crosby's presence that makes this one a tough question to answer.  Like I said, guys like him are so damned hard to come by, and he's not ancient at 33.  With the new FO hires, will be very interesting to see which path they take.    

Of course and I'm not sure that's what I would do ultimately. I'd have to know more about the Pens at the moment and their potential. But i guess at the end of the day the answer of what i'd do is... sit down, look into it, weight the pros and cons... then make a decision.

I obviously don't need to recap my stance on this, especially not to you. But based on what you said, maybe you didn't fully get that somehow lol. All i ever wanted from Lou or well any GM really, is just that, to weight the pros and cons and make a decision according to that... Lou almost NEVER did that. He had a one track mind and way to do things no matter what, purely "just because" and was almost never willing to adjust to situations when it was necessary. 

That's why it's always silly when you'd particularly jump through hoops to try to justify some of his decisions based on this and that and how it might make sense... but that was beside the point. Why defend a decision when no decision was made? He never really made those decisions, he was not talking contracts with UFAs or looking into any of that before deadlines because it made sense or that he made that decisions. That's just the what he did. Forget who he is and what he means to you, just how he ran things... you wouldn't agree with anyone running their businesses that way, it makes no sense.

Edited February 10, 2021 by SterioDesign

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Wasn’t looking to rehash any of that.  Was more looking at how having an undisputed all-time great (who doesn’t look to be declining) can almost force a team to take the all-in path, even though it could all blow up horribly.  

[SterioDesign]

20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Wasn’t looking to rehash any of that.  Was more looking at how having an undisputed all-time great (who doesn’t look to be declining) can almost force a team to take the all-in path, even though it could all blow up horribly.  

Well thats arguably why they got him in the first place because this whole cycle happened with Lemieux too 

[Nicomo]

Laf has 1 point in 11 GP now, and has been completely invisible the couple times I’ve watched the Rags. At least you saw flashes with Jack last year even when the points weren’t coming...

I’m so glad we got centers with our top picks. I’d much rather build a team around Hughes/Hischier than Laf/Kakko. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Nicomo

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Laf has 1 point in 11 GP now, and has been completely invisible the couple times I’ve watched the Rags. At least you saw flashes with Jack last year even when the points weren’t coming...

I’m so glad we got centers with our top picks. I’d much rather build a team around Hughes/Hischier than Laf/Kakko. 

 

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

Laf has 1 point in 11 GP now, and has been completely invisible the couple times I’ve watched the Rags. At least you saw flashes with Jack last year even when the points weren’t coming...

I’m so glad we got centers with our top picks. I’d much rather build a team around Hughes/Hischier than Laf/Kakko. 

This is interesting

[Nicomo]

2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

 

I mentioned the big difference between Hughes and Laf’s struggles in my post (as I see it). Hughes was at least noticeable out there, and constantly creating chances, carrying the puck into the offensive zone, etc. Laf looked completely invisible to the point you’d have to check the box score to confirm he even played. Maybe he’s looked better in some of their other games, but the two I’ve watched he’s been a ghost.

Also, Hughes was not already 19 years old during his rookie season like Laf is right now. Nor did he have that kind of size and body type (6’2 193). Laf was supposed to be far more pro ready, but it seems like the same story as with Kakko in that his NHL readiness was clearly overstated. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Nicomo

[Nicomo]

52 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

This is interesting

So basically he’s off to the worst 10 game start since Lacavalier in 1998. I’m sure Rags fans would kill for Jack’s 5 points through that amount of games right now...

[SterioDesign]

9 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

So basically he’s off to the worst 10 game start since Lacavalier in 1998. I’m sure Rags fans would kill for Jack’s 5 points through that amount of games right now...

even better. Bratt was drafted in the 6th round in 2016. Made his NHL debut in 2017 and got 10 pts in 10 games... 2 x 3 points games too.

 

[Nicomo]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

even better. Bratt was drafted in the 6th round in 2016. Made his NHL debut in 2017 and got 10 pts in 10 games... 2 x 3 points games too.

 

And he was another undersized guy, too. I’d be much more worried about these bigger wingers that were supposedly so pro ready if I was a Rags fan. They seem to be mostly blaming it on David Quinn atm, which I guess is fair to an extent. Hynes certainly did our young guys no favors.

And speaking of DBA, they’re about ready to run him out of Nashville lol

[SterioDesign]

3 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

And he was another undersized guy, too. I’d be much more worried about these bigger wingers that were supposedly so pro ready if I was a Rags fan. They seem to be mostly blaming it on David Quinn atm, which I guess is fair to an extent. Hynes certainly did our young guys no favors.

And speaking of DBA, they’re about ready to run him out of Nashville lol

for sure i was certainly wrong about Kakko. I was sure he'd come in the league and have more of an impact early than Jack

[Devil Dan 56]

Damn remember when Joe Thornton was gonna be a bust? I forgot how bad his first season was. For a while it looked Sergei Samsonov was gonna be the guy for Boston from that draft. 

[Nicomo]

29 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Damn remember when Joe Thornton was gonna be a bust? I forgot how bad his first season was. For a while it looked Sergei Samsonov was gonna be the guy for Boston from that draft. 

I would never even begin to think about using the “b” word wrt to Laf or Kakko yet (I mean, Laf has played 11 games), I just thought I’d bring up how bad the Rags young guys are struggling (remember how folks were flipping out because their rebuild was so far ahead of ours?). Particularly the unnoticeable part  

If someone wants to label that as hypocritical so be it, but context matters, and more was expected out of these top Rags picks than ours. We’ve been through it a thousand times, but Jack was (correctly) predicted to need some time to get bigger and stronger, and Nico was supposedly a “low end #1.” 

But all we heard on Kaapo “played against men” Kakko and Laf (supposedly the best #1 since Matthews) was how pro ready they were. So yeah, I’m enjoying that they’re struggling so badly. I’m sure they’ll both get it figured out at some point, but as for right now just let me be a homer and hate on the Rags goddammit lol

Edited February 11, 2021 by Nicomo

[Devil Dan 56]

4 hours ago, Nicomo said:

I would never even begin to think about using the “b” word wrt to Laf or Kakko yet (I mean, Laf has played 11 games), I just thought I’d bring up how bad the Rags young guys are struggling (remember how folks were flipping out because their rebuild was so far ahead of ours?). Particularly the unnoticeable part  

If someone wants to label that as hypocritical so be it, but context matters, and more was expected out of these top Rags picks than ours. We’ve been through it a thousand times, but Jack was (correctly) predicted to need some time to get bigger and stronger, and Nico was supposedly a “low end #1.” 

But all we heard on Kaapo “played against men” Kakko and Laf (supposedly the best #1 since Matthews) was how pro ready they were. So yeah, I’m enjoying that they’re struggling so badly. I’m sure they’ll both get it figured out at some point, but as for right now just let me be a homer and hate on the Rags goddammit lol

I wasn't referring to you or even Laf or Kakko, I just saw how bad Thorntons rookie year was on that chart and it reminded me of the whole Samsonov thing

Sorry if it came off like it was directed at you

[mfitz804]

6 hours ago, Nicomo said:

So basically he’s off to the worst 10 game start since Lacavalier in 1998. I’m sure Rags fans would kill for Jack’s 5 points through that amount of games right now...

He should for sure have a sh!ttier first season than Jack did. 

[mfitz804]

Let me also add, this is further evidence that the vast majority of 18 year olds, no matter how highly touted, don’t belong in the NHL. 

[Nicomo]

26 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Let me also add, this is further evidence that the vast majority of 18 year olds, no matter how highly touted, don’t belong in the NHL. 

Thing is, he’s not even 18...

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Thing is, he’s not even 18...

Yikes. I just kind of assumed he still was, didn’t realize he was an October birthday. 

If I were a Rangers fan, that would be very disconcerting.

But, even still, He would have been 18 at the beginning of the season if it were normal times, and he fits the mold. He looks like he needed another year of development.

[mfitz804]

6 hours ago, Nicomo said:

If someone wants to label that as hypocritical so be it

Let me also point out I didn’t say anything about hypocrisy, I just found the fact that you were on the opposite side of a similar debate funny. 

Although I still don’t agree with your view of how noticeable Jack was in his rookie year, he was certainly not “one point in OT in 10 games” unnoticeable. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Yikes. I just kind of assumed he still was, didn’t realize he was an October birthday. 

If I were a Rangers fan, that would be very disconcerting.

But, even still, He would have been 18 at the beginning of the season if it were normal times, and he fits the mold. He looks like he needed another year of development.

I don't think it's an age thing, as much as it is a "Time to re-think whether or not #1 overall picks (regardless of being 18, 19, whatever) should just get shoved right into the NHL."  

Only catch in Lafreniere's case, was he eligible to play in the AHL this year?  Over the last two seasons, he put up 72 goals and 145 assists (217 points) in 113 regular season games in the Q.  Makes you wonder what more he could have possibly learned playing in that league, if he wasn't AHL-eligible.

The ol' between a rock and a hard place...way too good for the Q, but not ready for the NHL either.    

[mfitz804]

27 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I don't think it's an age thing, as much as it is a "Time to re-think whether or not #1 overall picks (regardless of being 18, 19, whatever) should just get shoved right into the NHL."  

Only catch in Lafreniere's case, was he eligible to play in the AHL this year?  Over the last two seasons, he put up 72 goals and 145 assists (217 points) in 113 regular season games in the Q.  Makes you wonder what more he could have possibly learned playing in that league, if he wasn't AHL-eligible.

The ol' between a rock and a hard place...way too good for the Q, but not ready for the NHL either.    

As with Jack and Nico after their first year, he could have learned how to exercise, put on some bulk, and be a more effective player with a body that’s a little bit more like a man’s body. 

Whether that would happen in the Q, that’s another matter . 

[Nicomo]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I don't think it's an age thing, as much as it is a "Time to re-think whether or not #1 overall picks (regardless of being 18, 19, whatever) should just get shoved right into the NHL."  

Only catch in Lafreniere's case, was he eligible to play in the AHL this year?  Over the last two seasons, he put up 72 goals and 145 assists (217 points) in 113 regular season games in the Q.  Makes you wonder what more he could have possibly learned playing in that league, if he wasn't AHL-eligible.

The ol' between a rock and a hard place...way too good for the Q, but not ready for the NHL either.    

Thought I saw that he was not.