2021 Around The League Thread

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If all goes according to plan, there's plenty of Devils that will be due significant raises in the next couple of years.  That being said, let me actually SEE things go "according to plan".  

The Devils are going to have an insane amount of cap space...the bigger contracts just continue to keep coming off (PK is next, after this season).  And yeah, these teams that seems like they're in cap hell and oh look at them it's all going to go to sh!t continually find their ways out of it...and find a way to hang on to the players that the REALLY want to hang on to.

Yeah, in time you may become top-heavy, but that's what the draft is for...you need to sprinkle in cheap talent.  Blow your drafts, and it will eventually catch up with you.  But I'll worry about "cap hell" when the Devils are actually showing signs of being in it.  

To some extent, guys are going to have to want to be here for this “cap hell” scenario to even work. I can’t imagine any teams have ever been in “cap hell” based on deals they have to their own RFAs. 

If we have a whole ton of talent that wants to sign huge deals to stay in NJ, I’d argue we’ve done something right. 

[SterioDesign]

The point is not to avoid cap hell at any cost. But if you're going to go into it, better be because you have the players worth that. Landeskog at 11m is just non-sense. 

Hell if he couldn't lead his team further than he did in the playoffs with THAT roster. What makes us think he could do it here while been overpaid? I'd overpay for MacKinnon or a Dman bringing something nobody else bring in our lineup for sure but not for landeskog. I like him but not 11m like him

Plus then you're just setting a bad precedent for free agents, now guys better and more productive than him can go "well see, this guy is getting paid this, so i want this or more". It's because of bonehead and desperate contracts like this that we see crazy contracts and overpayments around the league

Edited July 13, 2021 by SterioDesign

[Satans Hockey]

Speaking of cap space, saw this on hf, apparently he had a bonus for games played at 10, 15 and 20 games...

“There’s clarity on Greene’s bonus overage for 2021-22. The Islanders are on the hook for $1.366 million in bonus overage for next season, reducing their cap space by that amount.”
 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

To some extent, guys are going to have to want to be here for this “cap hell” scenario to even work. I can’t imagine any teams have ever been in “cap hell” based on deals they have to their own RFAs. 

If we have a whole ton of talent that wants to sign huge deals to stay in NJ, I’d argue we’ve done something right. 

No argument here.  Right now, unless the Devils somehow start going hog-wild in UFA, I don't even really know how they find cap hell anytime soon.  The kids coming up who are supposed to figure into the Devils' plans will be on ELCs, and unless they wow and develop very quickly, will probably sign bridge deals or contracts that represent big money to them at the time, but have a good chance to become extremely cost-effective (like Palms' 5-year deal, Parise's 4-year deal when he was an RFA, etc).

And yeah, the bolded will be a nice problem to have.  

[Satans Hockey]

Hahahahhaha signed together and leaving together...

 

[mfitz804]

14 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Hahahahhaha signed together and leaving together...

 

Sounds about right…

Would ya think about it as a 3rd/4th liner with a cheap price tag for a year?

Only one year removed from 46 points in 69 games…which would have led our team that year in scoring. 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by mfitz804

[devlman]

15 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Hahahahhaha signed together and leaving together...

 

See ya!!

[devlman]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Sounds about right…

Would ya think about it as a 3rd/4th liner with a cheap price tag for a year?

Only one year removed from 46 points in 69 games…which would have led our team that year in scoring. 

 

I don’t care if he’s Gretzky, we aren’t his fall back option after leaving us.

Just now, MB3 said:

The Wild will pay each $6.7 million over the next eight years and be charged with $2.371 million, $6.371 million, $7.371 million and $7.371 million cap hits in the next four years, respectively, for each, then $833,333 cap hits the four years after that for each.

That's like 10% of the Wild's salary tied to dead cap money in 3 of the next 4 years. Holy fvcking lol. 

Yeah it’s a very questionable move by them.

[mfitz804]

Just now, devlman said:

I don’t care if he’s Gretzky, we aren’t his fall back option after leaving us.

Agree 100%. We already have him a 1 year deal to see what he could do, and the answer was get paid huge dollars by his hometown team. 

 

1 minute ago, devlman said:

Yeah it’s a very questionable move by them.

A very solid statement as to how bad they wanted them gone, as well. 

[Guadana]

Suter to the Devils(please, I hope. on the short deal), Parise to the Islanders(I think)

Edited July 13, 2021 by Guadana

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, MB3 said:

(But to answer your question,  mftiz, I would take Parise back here for a year or two in a fvcking second. What is there to lose?)

Nothing really. I just wouldn’t do it for spite lol. 

Just now, Guadana said:

Suter to the Devils(please, I hope. on the short deal), Parise to the Islanders(I think)

Parise to the Islanders kind of seems like a lock. 

[Satans Hockey]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Sounds about right…

Would ya think about it as a 3rd/4th liner with a cheap price tag for a year?

Only one year removed from 46 points in 69 games…which would have led our team that year in scoring. 

 

Nope because I hate retreads. Lou exhausted me on all of that and I have no desire to see it anymore. I won't be upset if they do sign him though cause my annoyance with him has waned out over the years. 

Personally I think he really tries to take a low priced deal to get on a team that has a realistic chance to win a cup since his time is running out. 

[Lateralous]

It seems like a lot of the hockey podcasts I listen to are based out of Toronto so I feel like I know more about the Toronto cap situation than I should.  Its at least useful here because I think they are the perfect warning sign about what can happen if you don't spend wisely at all times, even when you have the room.   Without doing a lot of research, off the top of my head this is essentially how I remember them going from a super strong up and coming young team to literally being in the cap hell they are today.   

Starting with the 16-17 roster, the team had an abundance of young talent, much of which was still on ELCs.   They had Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri,  Reilly, Connor Brown, Kapanen, Hyman coming up as a core.   

• Lou signs Marleau to a bloated 3 year contract to help mentor the young core.   At the time it was argued that the 3rd year wouldn't hurt because they had plenty of cap space.   
• Lou moves on and Dubas takes over.   Despite the fact that most of the young talent was at forward and Kadri was a perfectly acceptable 30 goal 2C, Dubas couldn't pass up adding Tavares as a UFA at 11 million.    
• Seeing the GM spend at forward and sensing that he needed to get his before the money was all spent, Nylander is the first of the three young forwards to hit RFA and asks for more than he was worth at the time.  While it's a perfectly reasonable contract now, Dubas caved at the time and overpaid.   
• Matthews is up next and rightfully asks for more than Tavares. 
• Somewhere around this time Connor Brown is moved to save cap space (don't remember the exact details) but he's kind of the type of player that they sorely need in the playoffs.    
• With everyone else getting paid, Marner also asks for the moon considering he's putting up the most points of all of them.   Now they have half their cap tied up in 4 players before they've ever accomplished a thing.     
• At this point, the third year of Marleau's contract is an issue to the point that the Leafs have to give a 1st rounder to the Sharks to rid themselves of it.    
• Kadri is now a luxury as a 3C (and also a bone head that got suspended two years in a row in the playoffs) so he's moved for Kerfoot and Tyson Barrie, the later they know they won't be able to keep beyond the last year of his contract because of the cap.   
• This summer, Kerfoot seems to be who the Leafs want to lose in the expansion draft because his perfectly reasonable 3.5 million salary is needed to address other issues.   
• I see a lot of talk about moving on from Reilly as well because they won't be able to afford him beyond this season with Sandin being his replacement.   

It's 20/20 hindsight but the Tavares signing, which was a luxury at the time, trigged a bunch of events that have them in a pretty tough pickle.   It's fascinating to me because I believe Lou would have passed on Tavares so you can argue a lot of this is because Kyle Dubas is incompetent (he is).   They're at the point that I really don't know how they plan to build out that team with absolutely no cap space available.   I guess you could try to move Marner for several lower priced pieces but they're a good lesson for why Fitz shouldn't be impatient and spend like a drunken sailor just for the hell of it.   

Again, I know our situation is a bit different but it's a good example of what overspending can lead to and how quickly it can happen.  I'm fine if we win two cups and then have to start selling off pieces but Toronto is the nightmare scenario.      

[CommonDreads]

2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I'd bet Parise lands back with Lou on the Island. 1 or 2 year deal at league minimum trying to chase a Cup. 

I wonder if part of the reason for Minnesota to do this is for protection slots with the expansion draft. Anyone know if they were at risk of losing someone significant? 

They could have gone 8 skaters and protected all of their d-men, but if they went 7F/3D they would have had to leave one of Spurgeon, Brodin, or Dumba exposed. They did that in 2017 and had to pony up Alex Tuch to Vegas to keep Dumba or Brodin, can't remember which one they left exposed back then.

[titans04]

2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I'd bet Parise lands back with Lou on the Island. 1 or 2 year deal at league minimum trying to chase a Cup. 

I wonder if part of the reason for Minnesota to do this is for protection slots with the expansion draft. Anyone know if they were at risk of losing someone significant? 

Dumba was the name most often mentioned as being at risk of being exposed/lost or traded prior. This would eliminate that.

 

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/hockey/7107662-A-look-at-who-Wild-could-lose-in-NHL-expansion-draft-and-what-would-hurt-most

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I'd bet Parise lands back with Lou on the Island. 1 or 2 year deal at league minimum trying to chase a Cup. 

League minimum, you think? You don’t think he gets a 2 year, $2-3m deal? Seems there is a lot of room between league minimum and what would still be considered a “show me” deal. 

1 minute ago, titans04 said:

Dumba was the name most often mentioned as being at risk of being exposed/lost or traded prior. This would eliminate that.

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/hockey/7107662-A-look-at-who-Wild-could-lose-in-NHL-expansion-draft-and-what-would-hurt-most

Dumba better play his ass off then, and be thankful they wanted to save him that badly. 

[titans04]

Three years of serious pain.

 

 

[AEWHistory]

On 7/9/2021 at 10:23 AM, MadDog2020 said:

There have been reports he wants out of Calgary, so he may be. Apparently he wants to go to St. Louis, because home. 

So what you’re saying is that there is a talented young NHL player who might want to go to/stay in St Louis that we might be able to get?  I say we get Stevens….. I mean Tkachuk immediately!

 

[mfitz804]

That is a lot of fvcking money off your cap for guys to not play. But, for perspective…but they did have significant cap space last year, I assume it’s not a huge issue. 

[AEWHistory]

On 7/9/2021 at 10:44 AM, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah sounds about right...sounds like a lot at first, but the Devils are getting the only proven quantity in the deal.  Gotta give to get.  Tkachuk should give the Devils 6-7 years of solid production. 

I'll add that I think in your scenario, the Devils are giving up enough to get a couple of mid-round picks back...say a 2nd in this year's draft, a 3rd in next year's...something like that.

Given the Devils’s need for defense, I’d be reluctant to trade the #4 pick.  Perhaps next year's pick would do it?  You’d be betting that the Devs have a return to respectability whereas they’d be hoping we bomb again.  It would be a risk, especially if we won the lottery, but worth it.  It is as close to having our cake and eating it that I can think of.  

[Jerzey]

Wasn’t Zach salty at Lou because they chased Kovy so hard a d gave him that contract? Not saying he wouldn’t still sign with Lou but I’m not sure it’s a lock. He could still want to be closer to home and sign with the Blackhawks or something.

[Devilsfan118]

I don't know about you guys, but it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing the Wild accomplished exactly fvck-all after spending all that money on those two guys.

[mfitz804]

14 minutes ago, Jerzey said:

Wasn’t Zach salty at Lou because they chased Kovy so hard a d gave him that contract? Not saying he wouldn’t still sign with Lou but I’m not sure it’s a lock. He could still want to be closer to home and sign with the Blackhawks or something.

That's true also...

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I don't know about you guys, but it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing the Wild accomplished exactly fvck-all after spending all that money on those two guys.

Mostly, it makes me happy. Mostly because of Parise, but also on the theory that had Parise stayed, he may have convinced Suter to come here. 

BUT...

Would we have given Parise and Suter those monster deals and would we be the ones buying them out right now...

 

[DevsMan84]

These cap apocalypses that seem to get foretold about a number of teams never really seem to happen.  Yeah Chicago had to make some hard decisions in each off-season, but even when they dumped players after each Cup (such as Ladd, Buff, etc in 2010) that didn't seem to stop them from putting together a team that would win 2 more cups in the following 5 seasons.  Plus there are always teams always seem to find other teams to help them out with dumping their most expendable players.

Just off the top of my head, the only time I can even think of where a team truly was in cap hell was the Devils shortly after the implementation of the hard cap where they had to play games with a short bench to be compliant.