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GDT3: *BRIGHT LIGHTS BRAH* Edition - Devils @ Rangers - 7 PM - MSG, MSG+


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1 hour ago, MB3 said:

4. Kyle Palmieri is awful. He’s not just “aw man, he’s off to a rough start.” He’s actively terrible. Kyle Palmieri on a penalty kill makes me want to gouge my eyes out. If there’s a team out there that thinks he can still pot 30 and will give is a 2nd, please god take that trade. I loved him his first few years here but his game has just gotten stagnant & regressed; he’s a late-career Michael Ryder. Would love to see Johnsson, who is also off to a rough start, get a chance with Hughes when the boys are fully healthy. Johnsson-Hughes-Sharangovic and Bratt-Nico-Gusev is a pretty great top-6

I think the 10 months off from playing actual games hurt him the most. 

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2 hours ago, Satans Hockey said:

I think the 10 months off from playing actual games hurt him the most. 

In Palms’ case, not having Nico on his line probably isn’t helping much either.

I’m not worried about him and Goose just yet.  Good news of course is that the Devils have still managed to bank five out of six points without getting all that much from either of them (and Palms at least has a couple of assists).

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we all have these would should coulda moments. We all know what scouting staff shoulda focused on, but although the B's hit a home run w/ MacAvoy, the year before they had 3 1st rounders early in the 1st and to Zboril, Debrusk, & Senyshyn (Debrusk being the only sure-fire NHL'er)  Also the B's had another 1st round pick in MacAvoy draft, and they took Trent Frederick? All B's fans don't understand why he's up playing in NHL team. Everybody misses once in while.

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6 hours ago, MB3 said:

I think you’re dramatically overestimating the difference between a 6th overall pick and a 12th overall pick. 

I have two things to add:

1) I managed to forget that we used a 12th pick on Michael Fvcking McLeod. I did not need to be reminded. 

2) Debating who we should have drafted 5 years ago instead of Zacha, or basically rehashing any draft, is as tiresome to me as debating whether Jack had a bad rookie season is to the rest of you. 

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3 hours ago, Guadana said:

When Chytil scored Buchnevich was in offside. Raff had to challenge that goal.

I am glad someone else noticed this as its been my one complaint about Ruff so far. It was obviously offside and should have been challenged. 

 

We are fortunate it didn't end up costing any points. 

Edited by T0asterleav1ns
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7 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

This is what pretty much everyone said the day we drafted him. It wasn’t a good pick. I’m not arguing that at all. Thankfully we got Nico the following year and Jack two years after that, or McLeod might be at the top of the depth chart at center, which would be a nightmare lol.

As far as McLeod goes...yeah, wasn't a great pick, and a potentially pretty good bottom-6 isn't necessarily what you're hoping for from a 12th-overall pick.  

But as you rightfully point out, having Nico and Jack in the fold should mean (barring lack of development or constant injuries) that we should only have to worry about Zacha and McLeod getting Top-6 duty in emergency situations.  If Zacha and McLeod can handle their lower-line duties well enough, Devils should be set at center for quite a while.

I'm all for putting players in the best possible position to succeed...if that means McLeod might have a career here that winds up being 500+ games as a 3rd or 4th liner, with occasional spot duty on the Top 2 lines if Jack and/or Nico are out, and McLeod is able to fulfill that role well, I'll live with it.  Considering all of the first-round picks who never make it at all, or come up for a few cups of coffee and do little else otherwise, I'll live with a guy who is at least contributing to the big club for several seasons, even if those contributions are less than glamorous.  They can't all be stars.

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1 hour ago, vadvlfan said:

we all have these would should coulda moments. We all know what scouting staff shoulda focused on, but although the B's hit a home run w/ MacAvoy, the year before they had 3 1st rounders early in the 1st and to Zboril, Debrusk, & Senyshyn (Debrusk being the only sure-fire NHL'er)  Also the B's had another 1st round pick in MacAvoy draft, and they took Trent Frederick? All B's fans don't understand why he's up playing in NHL team. Everybody misses once in while.

Also, picks 16,17 and 18 (right after their three), were Barzal, Kyle Connor and Thomas Chabot... ouch

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8 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Was gonna say, if Hynes is still coaching this team, we lose this game 5-4 in the last three minutes of regulation

Hynes coaching this team and we woulda blown the lead in the second, lost by 2, easily. DBA 2.0 has to get the PK to stop chasing the puck so much, how many times did some of our guys over commit last night leading to that cross-ice pass to a wide open shooter. I get they were tired, and the constant parade didn't help by the one-eyed officials but I can recall at least 2 or three spinning chances by a defender that left them out of position in the third alone.

8 hours ago, MB3 said:

8. Everyone needs to be cheering for Vancouver. It’s second nature as Devils fans to worry about your stars leaving; if Vancouver has a bad year and finds themself able to trade up to draft Luke Hughes, it’ll be agony waiting for the inevitable. I think the best case scenario for this devils team is to barely miss the playoffs and win the lottery for Luke.

Counter point to this: The three Staals never played on the same team at one time. Closest they got was Carolina with Eric and Jordan.

4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

In Palms’ case, not having Nico on his line probably isn’t helping much either.

I’m not worried about him and Goose just yet.  Good news of course is that the Devils have still managed to bank five out of six points without getting all that much from either of them (and Palms at least has a couple of assists).

I'm willing to give them both 6 games, as long as the rest of the team is picking up the weight, to get their crap together. Goose also not getting a shift in the third was an indictment of both the constant PK and.... well I don't know what else, he didn't look that bad in the first two frames. Not great, but not bad.

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18 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Counter point to this: The three Staals never played on the same team at one time. Closest they got was Carolina with Eric and Jordan.

I could be mis-remembering this as I have memory issues, but didn't all 3 play on a line with Carolina at some point? I feel like thats in my head for some reason

EDIT: I could be thinking of Howe & Sons

Edited by RunninWithTheDevil
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39 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I'm willing to give them both 6 games, as long as the rest of the team is picking up the weight, to get their crap together. Goose also not getting a shift in the third was an indictment of both the constant PK and.... well I don't know what else, he didn't look that bad in the first two frames. Not great, but not bad.

And if they don't get their crap together after the 6 games...what then?  Are you benching one of both of them?  For who?  

I think this is a case of being patient and giving both of them the benefit of the doubt...though some are very quick to jump on him, Palms does have a solid track record of goal-scoring here (even though he's streaky), and Gusev looked better and better as last season wore on (30 points over his last 37 GP).  Keep in mind that one or both might be involved in deadline deals too...not going to do their value any good to prematurely bench them, and if Fitz decides that he's moving on from one or both, we'd obviously like to see him get as much as he possibly can.  For every player like Hughes who's come out of the gates flying, there's going to be other guys who without the benefit of a usual training camp/preseason are going to look off for a while...and in Palms' case, a guy he's very comfortable playing next to in Nico isn't in the lineup.  Given the general state of the team and the expectations this season (fast start be damned), I gotta give those two a lot more than six games to figure things out.

That being said, no arguments as to their performance...neither has looked good so far.  But still very early.

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46 minutes ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

I could be mis-remembering this as I have memory issues, but didn't all 3 play on a line with Carolina at some point? I feel like thats in my head for some reason

EDIT: I could be thinking of Howe & Sons

Nope, Marc has only ever played for the Rangers and Detroit and Jordan only Pittsburgh and Carolina. 

Howe and his sons did though...

https://www.nhl.com/news/gordie-howe-skates-on-same-line-as-sons/c-287467494

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9 hours ago, MB3 said:

I’m curious why you think that’s even debatable. 

It was significantly more damaging to the New Jersey Devils that we took McLeod, who looks like he’ll never be an actual NHL player, over Charlie McAvoy who will probably be the next captain of the Boston Bruins. 

It hurts that we took Zacha over Provorov, but at least Zacha is a reliable 3rd line center and our best penalty killer by a country mile. 

Well of course with hindsight 20/20 it's not debatable. But we can't go around and judge decisions this way.

Once Tyler Jost was off the board that year we knew there was a huuuuge drop in talent (even jost is not setting the world on fire). We even traded back to get more pick cause i suspect there wasn't really a player that we REALLY wanted. It was a really weak draft that year. And it's really not like McAvoy was highly regarded or "fell" all the way to the Bruins. I remember very vividly not being excited about McLeod but i wouldn't have been excited about drafting anyone else then either.

As for Zacha it's a bit different. He was a top pick and many people and draft projections had us pick a bunch of players that would have been a lot better. Many didn't have Zacha in their top 10. So it's easier to pin that one as a mistake than McLeod.

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Just now, MB3 said:

I think somewhere my point is being missed. I’m specifically talking about that 20/20 hindsight.

 I’m not saying “let’s rake the Devils over the coals for whiffing on their 12th overall pick in 2016.” I’m just adding a counterpoint to the dozens of posters on this forum who still say “we wouldn’t have this issue if we didn’t draft Zacha.” 

My little golden boy is far from the biggest whiff the Devils have had in recent memory. 

gotcha. my apology then.

But if we're playing the 20/20 thing.

Then i say the dumbest move is not giving up the first round pick when we had the 29th pick to pick fvcking Matteau. Which down the line got us Q when we could have got Pastrnak or Larkin.

for a 4th line ive actually been happy with McLeod, and ive never been too high on him

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Ouch, Cordell ripping into Zacha a bit:

Devils 4, Rangers 3: Jack Hughes is here - Infernal Access (substack.com)

I have seen a lot of negativity surrounding the performances of Nikita Gusev and Andreas Johnsson so far. And I do get where it is coming from. They’re a pair of offensive wingers playing top-6 minutes every night and not offering much – at least not yet – in the way of production.

In saying that, I’m not overly concerned; and I won’t be unless this continues with Nico Hischier back in the lineup.

I don’t care how Pavel Zacha has ‘looked’ so far. His results are just as poor as that of Johnsson and Gusev. And he is the guy getting a free pass, if you will. Personally, I blame the struggles of L2 as much on him as anyone. Perhaps even more so.

Do you want to know why?

Nikita Gusev produced at a 1st line rate during 5v5 play last season. Andreas Johnsson produced at a 1st line rate during 5v5 play from 2018-20. They have a history that says, you know, they’re good at producing at even-strength.

You know who doesn’t? Pavel Zacha. You know who has been a possession anchor since entering the league? Pavel Zacha. You know who has been 4th line caliber at ES over the years? Pavel Zacha.

https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-43

So before we jump down the throat of Johnsson and Gusev for three games, we should probably consider that a) they’re generally productive and; b) their struggles happen to coincide with being centered by somebody who has no business on L2.

Is Zacha the only guy to blame? No, I do expect more than we’ve seen. But the ceiling, and floor, of what Johnsson and Gusev can produce is certainly capped while being handcuffed to Zacha.

Again, if this kind of thing continues when Nico is back; fire away. But, for now, I think it is important not to get too carried away.

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6 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I’m kind of surprised he’s playing Tennyson over Butcher tbh. 

I am as well, although Tennyson has not looked bad at all. If I were taking someone out to slot Butcher in, at this point it’d be Kulikov or Murray (subject to my never remembering which side which defensemen play on). 

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