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GDT3: *BRIGHT LIGHTS BRAH* Edition - Devils @ Rangers - 7 PM - MSG, MSG+


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1 hour ago, vadvlfan said:

we all have these would should coulda moments. We all know what scouting staff shoulda focused on, but although the B's hit a home run w/ MacAvoy, the year before they had 3 1st rounders early in the 1st and to Zboril, Debrusk, & Senyshyn (Debrusk being the only sure-fire NHL'er)  Also the B's had another 1st round pick in MacAvoy draft, and they took Trent Frederick? All B's fans don't understand why he's up playing in NHL team. Everybody misses once in while.

Also, picks 16,17 and 18 (right after their three), were Barzal, Kyle Connor and Thomas Chabot... ouch

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8 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Was gonna say, if Hynes is still coaching this team, we lose this game 5-4 in the last three minutes of regulation

Hynes coaching this team and we woulda blown the lead in the second, lost by 2, easily. DBA 2.0 has to get the PK to stop chasing the puck so much, how many times did some of our guys over commit last night leading to that cross-ice pass to a wide open shooter. I get they were tired, and the constant parade didn't help by the one-eyed officials but I can recall at least 2 or three spinning chances by a defender that left them out of position in the third alone.

8 hours ago, MB3 said:

8. Everyone needs to be cheering for Vancouver. It’s second nature as Devils fans to worry about your stars leaving; if Vancouver has a bad year and finds themself able to trade up to draft Luke Hughes, it’ll be agony waiting for the inevitable. I think the best case scenario for this devils team is to barely miss the playoffs and win the lottery for Luke.

Counter point to this: The three Staals never played on the same team at one time. Closest they got was Carolina with Eric and Jordan.

4 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

In Palms’ case, not having Nico on his line probably isn’t helping much either.

I’m not worried about him and Goose just yet.  Good news of course is that the Devils have still managed to bank five out of six points without getting all that much from either of them (and Palms at least has a couple of assists).

I'm willing to give them both 6 games, as long as the rest of the team is picking up the weight, to get their crap together. Goose also not getting a shift in the third was an indictment of both the constant PK and.... well I don't know what else, he didn't look that bad in the first two frames. Not great, but not bad.

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18 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Counter point to this: The three Staals never played on the same team at one time. Closest they got was Carolina with Eric and Jordan.

I could be mis-remembering this as I have memory issues, but didn't all 3 play on a line with Carolina at some point? I feel like thats in my head for some reason

EDIT: I could be thinking of Howe & Sons

Edited by RunninWithTheDevil
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39 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I'm willing to give them both 6 games, as long as the rest of the team is picking up the weight, to get their crap together. Goose also not getting a shift in the third was an indictment of both the constant PK and.... well I don't know what else, he didn't look that bad in the first two frames. Not great, but not bad.

And if they don't get their crap together after the 6 games...what then?  Are you benching one of both of them?  For who?  

I think this is a case of being patient and giving both of them the benefit of the doubt...though some are very quick to jump on him, Palms does have a solid track record of goal-scoring here (even though he's streaky), and Gusev looked better and better as last season wore on (30 points over his last 37 GP).  Keep in mind that one or both might be involved in deadline deals too...not going to do their value any good to prematurely bench them, and if Fitz decides that he's moving on from one or both, we'd obviously like to see him get as much as he possibly can.  For every player like Hughes who's come out of the gates flying, there's going to be other guys who without the benefit of a usual training camp/preseason are going to look off for a while...and in Palms' case, a guy he's very comfortable playing next to in Nico isn't in the lineup.  Given the general state of the team and the expectations this season (fast start be damned), I gotta give those two a lot more than six games to figure things out.

That being said, no arguments as to their performance...neither has looked good so far.  But still very early.

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1 hour ago, jagknife said:

Counter point to this: The three Staals never played on the same team at one time. Closest they got was Carolina with Eric and Jordan.

Got close twice, Rangers traded for Eric at the trade deadline a bunch of seasons back so they had Marc and him for a little as well. 

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46 minutes ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

I could be mis-remembering this as I have memory issues, but didn't all 3 play on a line with Carolina at some point? I feel like thats in my head for some reason

EDIT: I could be thinking of Howe & Sons

Nope, Marc has only ever played for the Rangers and Detroit and Jordan only Pittsburgh and Carolina. 

Howe and his sons did though...

https://www.nhl.com/news/gordie-howe-skates-on-same-line-as-sons/c-287467494

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9 hours ago, MB3 said:

I’m curious why you think that’s even debatable. 

It was significantly more damaging to the New Jersey Devils that we took McLeod, who looks like he’ll never be an actual NHL player, over Charlie McAvoy who will probably be the next captain of the Boston Bruins. 

It hurts that we took Zacha over Provorov, but at least Zacha is a reliable 3rd line center and our best penalty killer by a country mile. 

Well of course with hindsight 20/20 it's not debatable. But we can't go around and judge decisions this way.

Once Tyler Jost was off the board that year we knew there was a huuuuge drop in talent (even jost is not setting the world on fire). We even traded back to get more pick cause i suspect there wasn't really a player that we REALLY wanted. It was a really weak draft that year. And it's really not like McAvoy was highly regarded or "fell" all the way to the Bruins. I remember very vividly not being excited about McLeod but i wouldn't have been excited about drafting anyone else then either.

As for Zacha it's a bit different. He was a top pick and many people and draft projections had us pick a bunch of players that would have been a lot better. Many didn't have Zacha in their top 10. So it's easier to pin that one as a mistake than McLeod.

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3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well of course with hindsight 20/20 it's not debatable. But we can't go around and judge decisions this way.

I think somewhere my point is being missed. I’m specifically talking about that 20/20 hindsight.

 I’m not saying “let’s rake the Devils over the coals for whiffing on their 12th overall pick in 2016.” I’m just adding a counterpoint to the dozens of posters on this forum who still say “we wouldn’t have this issue if we didn’t draft Zacha.” 

My little golden boy is far from the biggest whiff the Devils have had in recent memory. 

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Just now, MB3 said:

I think somewhere my point is being missed. I’m specifically talking about that 20/20 hindsight.

 I’m not saying “let’s rake the Devils over the coals for whiffing on their 12th overall pick in 2016.” I’m just adding a counterpoint to the dozens of posters on this forum who still say “we wouldn’t have this issue if we didn’t draft Zacha.” 

My little golden boy is far from the biggest whiff the Devils have had in recent memory. 

gotcha. my apology then.

But if we're playing the 20/20 thing.

Then i say the dumbest move is not giving up the first round pick when we had the 29th pick to pick fvcking Matteau. Which down the line got us Q when we could have got Pastrnak or Larkin.

for a 4th line ive actually been happy with McLeod, and ive never been too high on him

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1 hour ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

I could be mis-remembering this as I have memory issues, but didn't all 3 play on a line with Carolina at some point? I feel like thats in my head for some reason

EDIT: I could be thinking of Howe & Sons

Marc is a defenseman, and he spent his entire career (until this season I think?) in New York.

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Ouch, Cordell ripping into Zacha a bit:

Devils 4, Rangers 3: Jack Hughes is here - Infernal Access (substack.com)

I have seen a lot of negativity surrounding the performances of Nikita Gusev and Andreas Johnsson so far. And I do get where it is coming from. They’re a pair of offensive wingers playing top-6 minutes every night and not offering much – at least not yet – in the way of production.

In saying that, I’m not overly concerned; and I won’t be unless this continues with Nico Hischier back in the lineup.

I don’t care how Pavel Zacha has ‘looked’ so far. His results are just as poor as that of Johnsson and Gusev. And he is the guy getting a free pass, if you will. Personally, I blame the struggles of L2 as much on him as anyone. Perhaps even more so.

Do you want to know why?

Nikita Gusev produced at a 1st line rate during 5v5 play last season. Andreas Johnsson produced at a 1st line rate during 5v5 play from 2018-20. They have a history that says, you know, they’re good at producing at even-strength.

You know who doesn’t? Pavel Zacha. You know who has been a possession anchor since entering the league? Pavel Zacha. You know who has been 4th line caliber at ES over the years? Pavel Zacha.

https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-43

So before we jump down the throat of Johnsson and Gusev for three games, we should probably consider that a) they’re generally productive and; b) their struggles happen to coincide with being centered by somebody who has no business on L2.

Is Zacha the only guy to blame? No, I do expect more than we’ve seen. But the ceiling, and floor, of what Johnsson and Gusev can produce is certainly capped while being handcuffed to Zacha.

Again, if this kind of thing continues when Nico is back; fire away. But, for now, I think it is important not to get too carried away.

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6 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I’m kind of surprised he’s playing Tennyson over Butcher tbh. 

I am as well, although Tennyson has not looked bad at all. If I were taking someone out to slot Butcher in, at this point it’d be Kulikov or Murray (subject to my never remembering which side which defensemen play on). 

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21 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I am as well, although Tennyson has not looked bad at all. If I were taking someone out to slot Butcher in, at this point it’d be Kulikov or Murray (subject to my never remembering which side which defensemen play on). 

Definitely not Murray. He’s been a nice steady presence back there. 

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33 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I’m kind of surprised he’s playing Tennyson over Butcher tbh. 

Physicality. Something Butcher is not known for. You need to have some (D) grit in the line up. Butcher is not very good in the D zone

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Ouch, Cordell ripping into Zacha a bit:

Devils 4, Rangers 3: Jack Hughes is here - Infernal Access (substack.com)

I have seen a lot of negativity surrounding the performances of Nikita Gusev and Andreas Johnsson so far. And I do get where it is coming from. They’re a pair of offensive wingers playing top-6 minutes every night and not offering much – at least not yet – in the way of production.

In saying that, I’m not overly concerned; and I won’t be unless this continues with Nico Hischier back in the lineup.

I don’t care how Pavel Zacha has ‘looked’ so far. His results are just as poor as that of Johnsson and Gusev. And he is the guy getting a free pass, if you will. Personally, I blame the struggles of L2 as much on him as anyone. Perhaps even more so.

Do you want to know why?

Nikita Gusev produced at a 1st line rate during 5v5 play last season. Andreas Johnsson produced at a 1st line rate during 5v5 play from 2018-20. They have a history that says, you know, they’re good at producing at even-strength.

You know who doesn’t? Pavel Zacha. You know who has been a possession anchor since entering the league? Pavel Zacha. You know who has been 4th line caliber at ES over the years? Pavel Zacha.

https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-43

So before we jump down the throat of Johnsson and Gusev for three games, we should probably consider that a) they’re generally productive and; b) their struggles happen to coincide with being centered by somebody who has no business on L2.

Is Zacha the only guy to blame? No, I do expect more than we’ve seen. But the ceiling, and floor, of what Johnsson and Gusev can produce is certainly capped while being handcuffed to Zacha.

Again, if this kind of thing continues when Nico is back; fire away. But, for now, I think it is important not to get too carried away.

“Don’t worry about our 29 year old winger making 4.5m. He’ll be carried by Nico again when Nico’s healthy. You really should focus on how our $2m 23 year old is playing *with* those two deadweights, and then with Bastian and Kuokkonen.”

Now you fvckers know why I stan Zacha so much? This reads like fvcking satire lol.

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I don't care if it got sloppy last night, fvck that felt good.

Jack was on fire and you can see him blossoming into the star we drafted him to be. It can't be overstated how big of a piece Blackwood is to this team moving forward, he himself is blossoming into one of the best at his position in the league.

Smith coming right into the NHL and continuing to contribute, just get that bag of bricks Tennyson off his pair and he'll be golden.

Edited by CommonDreads
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22 minutes ago, MB3 said:

“Don’t worry about our 29 year old winger making 4.5m. He’ll be carried by Nico again when Nico’s healthy. You really should focus on how our $2m 23 year old is playing *with* those two deadweights, and then with Bastian and Kuokkonen.”

Now you fvckers know why I stan Zacha so much? This reads like fvcking satire lol.

 

Palms popped in 25 goals in 65 GP last season...about his typical pace as Devil...he has something called a TRACK RECORD (which Zacha has yet to establish)...when you have one of those, yeah, that means such a player can be afforded some leeway and patience.  So because you have an irrational hatred towards Palms, I should be destroying him after three games?  Assume that the guy who could at least be counted on for some goals every single season here is finished, or will never get it going all season?  

Re:  Zacha, since there's been some talk on here about Goose's early struggles, I thought that Cordell's take was interesting...if anything, it reiterates one of my previous posts, where I pointed out that I like when players are put in a reasonable position to succeed.  Unfortunately, due to Nico being out, Zacha is being asked to do more than he should at the moment, and Cordell is pointing out how that's not going to work out.  Zacha should be a 3C and I think he may become a pretty good one...jury is still out on that.

So now Goose and Johnsson are "deadweights"?  Or are they being dragged down by a deadweight?  It's a small sample, but Cordell has put together enough evidence that it could be the latter.  But again, only three games, and Zacha is being asked to do more than he's capable.   

And again, unlike you with Palms, I'm not some irrational Zacha-killer.  Like I said, once Nico is back, make Zacha a 3C, and if he becomes a solid intangibles player, I won't need him to be much more than a pitch-in guy offensively.  I still think that there's a place for him on this team.  It just kinda sucks that he's not really capable of filling in on higher lines.  But obviously Zacha has limitations.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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Just now, RunninWithTheDevil said:

I think we all just need to step back and look at the fact that the team is playing generally well, we're only 3 games in, and we had exactly 0 preseason games to shake off the rust.  Guys will find their feet, and some won't. It's still to early to tell.

Agree.  I think most of us would've expected two, maybe three points right now.  Thrilled with five.  

Wood and Hughes getting off to hot starts, Smith looking pretty good early, and Blackwood stopping seemingly every puck is helping to cover up for some deficiencies (not like we didn't know there would be some).  Ideally, when some guys inevitably cool off, others step up (and in the case of Bratt, Nico and Vats, step in).  I just think it's too early (like you do) to jump on certain guys, especially those who've shown something as recently as last season.  Actually, when you think about it, it's kinda nice that the team is off to a 2-0-1 start, with some guys not here, and others breaking out of the gate slowly.  

 

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