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GDT: Devils @ Rags 7:00 PM MSG, MSG+


MadDog2020

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40 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

No there’s no world where Palms should be a healthy scratch, that’s the hyperbole that makes the ripping of him silly and spiteful. It’s one thing if you want to trade him and not resign him, but what’s the point of scratching Palm for Nick Merkley or another plug fill in exactly? There aren’t twelve better forwards than Palm on the roster no matter how much anyone hates him, how many other wingers do we have that even put up 25 goals and 55 points? None that you know for sure can do that. Hopefully a Bratt or a Sharangovich can do that someday but none of them have done it yet.

Well you can't really constantly leave a guy out there because "he put up 25goals / 55 points in the past" and ignore his current play. 

You don't win hockey games based on reputation, you need results.

I'm not saying we should bench him now or wtv but we're getting close to a point that if he's not playing better soon, we'll have to have uncomfortable conversations for sure

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4 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

I think you also have to keep Palms in and around for that veteran forward presence, especially with Zajac out. Palms and Zajac are the only two real vets, Wood is 25 and has played the next most games. Johnsson is 26 and Gusev is 28 but they both haven't played that many games. Everyone else is 23 and under. 

What about Vats, Murray, kulikov and Subban?

Edited by SterioDesign
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5 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

What about Vats, Murray and Subban?

I was just talking about forwards, our defense has a lot more vets and guys who have played a lot of games but you still need to have some veteran forwards for the younger guys to learn from and be able to talk to. Wood has been great this year but if you take Zajac and Palms off the team, Wood and Zacha become the two forwards with most games played, which is kinda wild lol

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3 hours ago, MB3 said:

I sure do hope one of our AHL players can fill the role of 0-goals-through-20%-of-the-season. Ya know, I bet I can fill that role! 

So nine games in a season that's a little kooky to begin with (no preseason, now a Covid-induced layoff, etc) now completely negates the 363 games Palms played that came before, as a Devil?  The guy gets no leeway at all? 

Maybe you did like him once (I don't really ever remember you being all that fond of him), but just admit that you have zero objectivity when it comes to him now, and that whatever hatred you've developed for him pretty much makes you over-the-top irrational when it comes to how you think he should be handled.  The guy averaged 30 G per 82 GP without that being skewed by one monster year...exactly how many Devils have been doing that lately?  Even if we assume the Devils have already moved on from the idea of re-signing him, doesn't it make sense to give him more than nine friggin' games before we bury him and define him as this "he either scores or he's useless" malingerer?  At the very least, shouldn't the Devils want to see if he can up his trade value?

You've clearly reached the point where you're looking to find for the most negative take you can have on everything Palms does (like finding ways to diminish his 25 goals in 65 GP last year).  And you're not willing to give him any kind of leash.  That's fine, but I'm pretty sure that unless he struggles mightily for a while longer (I'd say on the -5 to +5 scale, he's around a -1.5 at the moment, after looking every bit like a -5 early on), the Devils are not going to mothball him...and if it did reach that point, I think they'd probably just move him.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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11 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well you can't really constantly leave a guy out there because "he put up 25goals / 55 points in the past" and ignore his current play. 

You don't win hockey games based on reputation, you need results.

I'm not saying we should bench him now or wtv but we're getting close to a point that if he's not playing better soon, we'll have to have uncomfortable conversations for sure

18 SOG over his last 5 GP (he had just 5 through his first 4 GP, when he was looking his worst).  I don't recall too many of the 18 shots being super-great chances, but he did have a pretty nice shot last night.  For a guy like him, it's gotta start with at least getting shots on goal.  But even if I think MB3 is over-the-top with the Palms bashing, I can't disagree that Palms has gotta start putting some home.  The good news is that the Devils have managed 28 goals through 10 games (right around league average), even without Palms scoring one of his own.  So even though his lack of goal-scoring (and some WTF moments) to date has hurt, the Devils (by committee, really) have been able to overcome that.  

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20 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

18 SOG over his last 5 GP (he had just 5 through his first 4 GP, when he was looking his worst).  I don't recall too many of the 18 shots being super-great chances, but he did have a pretty nice shot last night.  For a guy like him, it's gotta start with at least getting shots on goal.  But even if I think MB3 is over-the-top with the Palms bashing, I can't disagree that Palms has gotta start putting some home.  The good news is that the Devils have managed 28 goals through 10 games (right around league average), even without Palms scoring one of his own.  So even though his lack of goal-scoring (and some WTF moments) to date has hurt, the Devils (by committee, really) have been able to overcome that.  

well again for me its not as much about not putting the puck in the net. Like even if McLeod didn't score this year... i can SEE that he's helping out there. Making things happen etc

Palms honestly most of the time that i notice him it's because he turned the puck over, made a bad pass or bad decision. If it wasnt from that and that the puck is just not going in it would be different for me

Plus i posted a screenshot of our players usage. And he has the easiest matchups. A vet like him should be able to do something with that. 

Edited by SterioDesign
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5 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I’m not an advanced-stat nerd and I think they have a long way to go before they’re even touching baseball; but I’m curious what they say about Palmieri.

I literally don’t believe you (even though I know you don’t embellish) that he has 18 SOG in his last 5 games. I think I remember one of them as a high danger chance. 

For his ice time and line mates, his infrequency for high danger chances is inexcusable.

This is my main concern at the moment...he's at least now getting SOG, but that's a baby step.  The quality of these shots has to improve, dramatically.  But like I said, has to start somewhere.  

Based on HockeyReference (which does have advanced stats, which I've never been that into myself), there's no smoking gun that points to this season being so much worse than prior seasons (and it's too small of a sample size anyway)...but going strictly by the eye test, yeah, he started off horrible, and has moved the needle to less bad for now.  

On a side note, in Zacha's last 30 NHL games, he's scored 8 goals and added 11 assists.  I will HAPPILY take production in that neighborhood from him going forward.  

4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

well again for me its not as much about not putting the puck in the net. Like even if McLeod didn't score this year... i can SEE that he's helping out there. Making things happen etc

Palms honestly most of the time that i notice him it's because he turned the puck over, made a bad pass or bad decision. If it wasnt from that and that the puck is just not going in it would be different for me

I wasn't trying to imply that all was well with Palms' game otherwise.  That's been the difference between this scoring slumps and past scoring slumps...sometimes they'd go in like crazy, other times not so much, but he was relatively consistent in other aspects regardless of whether the pucks were going in or not.  This year, yes, he has been bad, especially as the season began.    

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LOL at comparing Palms to Schneider when one guy had what turned out to be an onerous six year, big money deal (which we still had to buy out with two years left after his contract bought him two more years than it otherwise would have) and the other you can just kick out the door after the season if you choose. Not to mention a goaltender being bad is way more crippling than a forward not scoring. It’s also a lot easier to find one goalie that can play better compared to finding eight wingers that can produce more.

If Palms doesn’t turn it around you’ll get your wish and he’ll be gone one way or another by seasons end, but there’s zero rationale that makes sense for outright benching him after nine games when all we have to replace him is question marks, raw kids and AHL guys. And this nonsense he can’t play in the back six is silly too, he did that his entire career in Anaheim. He likely won’t play in the back six but he has done it before.

This idea he’s malingering is also highly doubtful, he’s playing for a doggone contract! Why would he be jaking it this year, of all years?

 

Edited by NJDevs4978
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16 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

LOL at comparing Palms to Schneider when one guy had what turned out to be an onerous six year, big money deal (which we still had to buy out with two years left after his contract bought him two more years than it otherwise would have) and the other you can just kick out the door after the season if you choose. Not to mention a goaltender being bad is way more crippling than a forward not scoring. It’s also a lot easier to find one goalie that can play better compared to finding eight wingers that can produce more.

If Palms doesn’t turn it around you’ll get your wish and he’ll be gone one way or another by seasons end, but there’s zero rationale that makes sense for outright benching him after nine games when all we have to replace him is question marks, raw kids and AHL guys. And this nonsense he can’t play in the back six is silly too, he did that his entire career in Anaheim. He likely won’t play in the back six but he has done it before.

This idea he’s malingering is also highly doubtful, he’s playing for a doggone contract! Why would he be jaking it this year, of all years?

 

The funny thing is that even if this final year turns out to be a rough one from start to finish (it happens), Palms represented fine value, given his salary.  First four years of that deal were terrific, from a cost/production standpoint.  He did miss some games, but not too many in the grand scheme.  He did about what was expected, really.  

And yeah, I've brought this up before, but like Vats, it wasn't so long ago that Palms seemed like a perfect UFA overpayment candidate...the kind of player who would get a Henrique-type contract (that deal's looking pretty weak now), but for something in the $7 million range, for 4+ years.  I'm guessing if he doesn't pick it up, it's $4-5 million for one year (former MVP Hall couldn't even get a multi-year deal).  If Palms finishes with numbers much more in line with what he's done the past five years, maybe it's $5+ million for as many as three years...and I could see that being a little too much...the market has really changed.  But I never liked the idea of Palms in his 30s on a $7+ million multi-year deal anyway.  I was on board with the idea of keeping him (a solid vet who happens to love being in NJ), but more and more, as much as it's nice to have some vets around, it just doesn't feel like he lines up with this group's timeline anymore.

Given that he's not making a ton and is a perfect rental, if he did get hot at the right time, he really could fetch a decent return (especially if a team is dealing with injuries and gets desperate).  Blake Coleman managed to get the Devils a young piece who was a former first-round pick and a first-rounder.  Not saying Palms would bring that back (Coleman was signed for another season at bargain dollars), but I have faith in Fitz to maximize a return...especially if Palms is scoring.    

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Palmieri also has 4 assists in 9 games. Our team leader(s) have 8 points in 10 games. Palms still has more points than Johnsson and Sharangovich who have played all 10. 

To jump up and down that he’s “not scoring” because he has no goals is silly because it’s too small of a sample size, especially from a streaky player. 

Now if you want to say he’s looked bad, that’s a different story, he certainly has. 

 

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4 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Palmieri also has 4 assists in 9 games. Our team leader(s) have 8 points in 10 games. Palms still has more points than Johnsson and Sharangovich who have played all 10. 

To jump up and down that he’s “not scoring” because he has no goals is silly because it’s too small of a sample size, especially from a streaky player. 

Now if you want to say he’s looked bad, that’s a different story, he certainly has. 

 

I've stayed quite on the Palms situation for most of the reasons that you've stated.  He's looked bad, no question, but to say it would be hasty and a knee jerk reaction to bench the guy or put him on the trade block after 10 games would be an understatement.  Palms, by his own nature, is a streaky player as you pointed out, and this year in particular has been anything but consistent for almost everyone, so I think a certain degree of latitude is deserved by most players.   I'd give it at least another 10 games before starting to think about his future role on this team.  For now, he's simply a player that's looking to find his groove this season - he's not alone either.

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Yeah i mean at the end of the day maybe there's a reason he's looking this bad. So let's just wait and see.

Cause obviously he didn't play for months, he's getting older, he has a family to take care of, then there's the whole dolphin incident, covid has been a problem too and maybe its affecting him differently, he also got covid too recently. So anyway, many reasons why maybe he's not 100% mentally. 

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3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah i mean at the end of the day maybe there's a reason he's looking this bad. So let's just wait and see.

Cause obviously he didn't play for months, he's getting older, he has a family to take care of, then there's the whole dolphin incident, covid has been a problem too and maybe its affecting him differently, he also got covid too recently. So anyway, many reasons why maybe he's not 100% mentally. 

Wtf is the dolphin incident? 

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I don’t know how a guy just drops a phrase like “The Dolphin Incident” with no explanation and just leaves us all to wonder. 

13 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Theory: 

The Dolphin Incident is Palmieri's indie band. They broke up late last year.

Please give him privacy in his difficult time. 

I thought he was the bass player for Captain Greene and the Sharp Angle Shot. 

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31 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I don’t know how a guy just drops a phrase like “The Dolphin Incident” with no explanation and just leaves us all to wonder. 

I thought he was the bass player for Captain Greene and the Sharp Angle Shot. 

My first thought was “This is the kind of random sh!t that someone just says in the middle of a long monologue just to see if you’re still paying attention.”   I had no idea what he was going for with it.

47 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Theory: 

The Dolphin Incident is Palmieri's indie band. They broke up late last year.

Please give him privacy in his difficult time. 

GREAT band name.  I can almost picture the kind of music they’d make (definitely a generous dose of punk).

One time at work, I needed to know who my contact point was for one of my suppliers (old one had left the company), and my Colorado branch manager said “Wanda Munch”.  I said ok, that’s funny, but what’s her real name?  He started laughing and said no, that IS her real name.  So at some point if I ever start drumming in another band, I might have to use Wanda Munch.  Something about it is out there just enough for it to work.

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