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GDT: Devils vs. Isles, SUPERSPREADER EDITION 3/2/21, 7:00pm, MSG+2


RunninWithTheDevil
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15 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

This is pretty much the correct attitude to take, especially if you want to keep your sanity, and not get too upset about the losses that are bound to pile up at times in the present.

It's not like the Devils made a series of right-now moves in the offseason to try to expedite things...they're basically where the 80s Devils were.  They're going to try to build this through the draft and from within, take mild risks with players like Johnsson and Murray, and be patient with whatever youth is currently with the big team.  Next year, hopefully some of the young D (like Bahl) is really to start playing in the NHL.  

On one hand, sure, it would be nice to see them make a splashy move (especially if it's filling a need...like getting Jack a legit sniper), and not almost automatically be out on the bigger names by default, but the Devils are probably at least another year or two away from pursuing those kinds of moves.  And as we've seen with PK, when you go for the wrong kind of "right now" player, it can be a serious letdown...not that the price paid for PK was anything costly, but he hasn't helped on the ice one bit.  

One thing that seems to get overlooked with the Subban trade is we did actually give up two second round picks (along with a couple meh players). Maybe it’s just how bad he’s been, but I sure as hell would rather have those picks back now. We have found players like Blackwood and Severson in the 2nd round, so it’s not like they were just worthless late picks. And I just remember how pretty much everyone in the hockey world (probably except David Poile and Preds fans) thinking we fleeced them...

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1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

One thing that seems to get overlooked with the Subban trade is we did actually give up two second round picks (along with a couple meh players). Maybe it’s just how bad he’s been, but I sure as hell would rather have those picks back now. We have found players like Blackwood and Severson in the 2nd round, so it’s not like they were just worthless late picks. And I just remember how pretty much everyone in the hockey world (probably except David Poile and Preds fans) thinking we fleeced them...

I agree, 2nd round picks aren't throwaway picks, but in the grand scheme it could have been worse.  I think Nashville flipped at least one of those picks shortly after the deal, IIRC. 

Been over it a million times, but for the Preds, it wasn't even about the return; they knew Subban was declining (the evidence was there if you look at his game log from his final year in Nashville), but they were still able to cash in just enough off his name to get some pieces back AND get his money off their books.  They were smart, in that they didn't try to get too greedy by asking for a first-rounder in a later draft, or by asking for a player of consequence off the roster...they played it perfectly.  Devils got three years of shell-of-himself maddening PK at top dollar...yippee.  At least it's almost over.

And since I've seen this brought up, let's not kid ourselves that Seattle is going to be bullish on PK because "he's a name".  If the Devils want to pawn him off to the Kraken, one thing that they can do is arrange something behind the scenes where Seattle drafts one of our exposed players, then the Devils trade PK (and take on well over half of his remaining money) + a draft pick (probably a second) to get that player back...I'm sure that Seattle is doing its homework and realizes that PK isn't going to do a hell of a lot for them in his season there...their best hope will be to get a mid-round pick for him at next year's deadline. 

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19 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

And I just remember how pretty much everyone in the hockey world (probably except David Poile and Preds fans) thinking we fleeced them...

Womp, womp.

Thankfully, the Devils didn't give up more than the second rounders. 

Maybe he's gonna get hot with that slapshot. Hope springs eternal.
 

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3 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

Womp, womp.

Thankfully, the Devils didn't give up more than the second rounders. 

Maybe he's gonna get hot with that slapshot. Hope springs eternal.
 

In some ways PK now reminds me of Eric Gelinas.  Sure, every now and then maybe that big shot actually finds the damned net.  But for every increasingly rare moment where that happens, far too many of the "WTF?!" variety.  

And of course, like I said previously, his shot seems like it's dangerous for all of the wrong reasons (potentially injuring someone, missing the net by a mile on the PP and then careening out of the zone, etc).  For all of his incredibly frustrating moments, we did get to see one BOOM! kind of goal this season.  Yippee.  

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4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

In some ways PK now reminds me of Eric Gelinas.  Sure, every now and then maybe that big shot actually finds the damned net.  But for every increasingly rare moment where that happens, far too many of the "WTF?!" variety.  

And of course, like I said previously, his shot seems like it's dangerous for all of the wrong reasons (potentially injuring someone, missing the net by a mile on the PP and then careening out of the zone, etc).  For all of his incredibly frustrating moments, we did get to see one BOOM! kind of goal this season.  Yippee.  

He really is a menace with that loose cannon point shot. It's as if he was mentored by Sheldon Souray!

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2 minutes ago, Brewskies said:

Very interesting reading the last few pages. IMO this team should be better than they appear on the ice and the Devils should be better than they are in the rebuild. 

Lots of points to point the finger at

In some cases, we really gotta remember that a lot of these guys were sick with Covid.  Even if they're not constantly talking about it, some of them could still be feeling the effects of having had it. 

And as much as I'm not a PK fan...easy to forget that these guys are human.  Not excusing him for anything, but who knows if his breakup with Lindsey Vonn is weighing on him?  I admit it, I rarely think about that stuff when evaluating a player, but maybe that situation really has him depressed.   

I won't go player by player...there's a solid amount of youth here now, but it's still early.  But like others have noted, at least there's some LEGIT young talent now.  We're not hoping for a guy like McLeod to be a Top 6.

I see signs, but it's still very much a work in progress, and there were weaknesses coming in...the fast start was fun as hell, but based on numbers, wasn't likely to last.  I was hoping the Devils could continue to surprise, and I like what Ruff is trying to do, but they are what they are...especially with the vets not really contributing enough at the moment.  

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15 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

We just got scored on by a dude named Oliver wtf

 

15 hours ago, Jerrydevil said:

And it wasn't Ekman-Larsson .... the only other Oliver I could think of.

I wish I could forget about the Devil-killer, Oliver Bjorkstrand.

That dude seems to score on us every time we play Columbus.

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2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

In some ways PK now reminds me of Eric Gelinas.  Sure, every now and then maybe that big shot actually finds the damned net.  But for every increasingly rare moment where that happens, far too many of the "WTF?!" variety.  

And of course, like I said previously, his shot seems like it's dangerous for all of the wrong reasons (potentially injuring someone, missing the net by a mile on the PP and then careening out of the zone, etc).  For all of his incredibly frustrating moments, we did get to see one BOOM! kind of goal this season.  Yippee.  

I did notice that he's done a better job at keeping it low the last few games (probably since they are still trying to scotch tape Nicos head back on) so I'm guessing someone is working with him. 

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46 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

In some cases, we gotta remember that a lot of these guys were sick with Covid.  Even if they're not constantly talking about it, some of them could still be feeling the effects of having had it. 

And as much as I'm not a PK fan...easy to forget that these guys are human.  Not excusing him for anything, but who knows if his breakup with Lindsey Vonn is weighing on him?  I admit it, I rarely think about that stuff when evaluating a player, but maybe that situation really has him depressed.   

I won't go player by player...there's a solid amount of youth here now, but it's still early.  But like others have noted, at least there's some LEGIT young talent now.  We're not hoping for a guy like McLeod to be a Top 6.

I see signs, but it's still very much a work in progress, and there were weaknesses coming in...the fast start was fun as hell, but based on numbers, wasn't likely to last.  I was hoping the Devils could continue to surprise, and I like what Ruff is trying to do, but they are what they are...especially with the vets not contributing enough at the moment.  

Thanks for reminding me about COVID, I shouldn't forget there is enough stuff out there about it every day. Yes, this can have lingering effects so I need to take that into effect when evaluating Devils players, and honestly, I have not. That is a good excuse for this season for some players and the interaction of player actions when playing together.

 

You mentioned PK Subban. IMO Shero got taken, gave up too much for a declining player and expect too much from him to help the team. He was terrible when things were great with him and Vonn. So no excuse when they brake up. He isn't worth what he is being paid. The sooner he is gone the better this team will be. Consider the Zacha acquisition, that was a Shero get, IMO he never worked out until the last 14 games and will it be sustained is presently an unknown. One veteran that has been consistent but declining with age but the decline is better than any Devils player in faceoffs or Two Way play that is Zajac. Well worth his original contract and money. He makes a mistake now and then but makes up for it with his two way play. Palms was declining before this season. Boston rejected him as a rental, so why is he on our top lines this season? It is because they don't presently have anyone better. Coaches need talent to make the team work, GMs/Owners are responsible to provide that talent. I just think the rebuild to get to the playoffs is taking much too long for the Devils for many reasons but mostly getting the talent to go with these young, would be, stars. They have had the money to get UFAs. Just my opinion, most fans find what is happening acceptable, so I am the odd one. 

Thanks again for reminding me about COVID. Hell, I forget this is a 56 game season sometimes. The new divisions and the order of play within the division makes it difficult for a weak team to rise up the standings.

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22 minutes ago, Brewskies said:

You mentioned PK Subban. IMO Shero got taken, gave up too much for a declining player and expect too much from him to help the team. 

Jeremy Davies and Steve Santini weren't worth anything, the two 2nd round picks turned into Bobby Brink and Marat Khusnutdinov so jury is still out on those 2 cause they are young but overall the whole thing really looks like it will probably be a wash overall. 

PK is gone after next season, either at the deadline or the end of the season anyway so it's not like he handcuffed himself long term. 

Edited by Satans Hockey
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18 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Jeremy Davies and Steve Santini weren't worth anything, the two 2nd round picks turned into Bobby Brink and Marat Khusnutdinov so jury is still out on those 2 cause they are young but overall the whole thing really looks like it will probably be a wash overall. 

PK is gone after next season, either at the deadline or the end of the season anyway so it's not like he handcuffed himself long term. 

Thanks. He didn't handcuff himself instead he handcuffed the Devils while he was with the team. 

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36 minutes ago, Brewskies said:

Thanks for reminding me about COVID, I shouldn't forget there is enough stuff out there about it every day. Yes, this can have lingering effects so I need to take that into effect when evaluating Devils players, and honestly, I have not. That is a good excuse for this season for some players and the interaction of player actions when playing together.

 

You mentioned PK Subban. IMO Shero got taken, gave up too much for a declining player and expect too much from him to help the team. He was terrible when things were great with him and Vonn. So no excuse when they brake up. He isn't worth what he is being paid. The sooner he is gone the better this team will be. Consider the Zacha acquisition, that was a Shero get, IMO he never worked out until the last 14 games and will it be sustained is presently an unknown. One veteran that has been consistent but declining with age but the decline is better than any Devils player in faceoffs or Two Way play that is Zajac. Well worth his original contract and money. He makes a mistake now and then but makes up for it with his two way play. Palms was declining before this season. Boston rejected him as a rental, so why is he on our top lines this season? It is because they don't presently have anyone better. Coaches need talent to make the team work, GMs/Owners are responsible to provide that talent. I just think the rebuild to get to the playoffs is taking much too long for the Devils for many reasons but mostly getting the talent to go with these young, would be, stars. They have had the money to get UFAs. Just my opinion, most fans find what is happening acceptable, so I am the odd one. 

Thanks again for reminding me about COVID. Hell, I forget this is a 56 game season sometimes. The new divisions and the order of play within the division makes it difficult for a weak team to rise up the standings.

Numbers don't really point to Palms declining last season...if anything, last season he was a little less streaky that he had been prior.  When he's been bad this season, he's been brutal though...just when he seemed to be snapping out of it, he's gone five games without a point.  In a perfect situation, and on a better team, he's more of a second-liner over the past five years, but he was pretty solid as a first-liner, all things considered...I've posted his rate stats, and they were consistent from season to season.

Did Boston "reject" him?  Don't remember reading that anywhere.

Re:  bringing in talent, keep in mind it's not like the Devils have had tons of expendable assets to move in a big trade, and big-time UFAs aren't exactly pining to play in Newark for a team that's rebuilding.  Say what you will about Shero's time here, but I thought that he was pretty creative with what he had to work with.  The one weapon that the Devils do have is cap space, but again, gotta find players who want to come here for a payday.  It's not the most attractive destination, but if Hughes and Hischier become the 1-2 center punch we all hope they can be, and Blackwood becomes an above-average #1, and other youngins can develop, then suddenly you have legit pieces to move to fill a weakness, and maybe a higher-profile UFA will actually consider taking the Devils' money (assuming locking up worthwhile young players doesn't kill the cap).  

And one last thing re:  PK...I'm not sure if that was all Shero, or Shero with (impatient) owner interference.  

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5 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

 

And since I've seen this brought up, let's not kid ourselves that Seattle is going to be bullish on PK because "he's a name".  If the Devils want to pawn him off to the Kraken, one thing that they can do is arrange something behind the scenes where Seattle drafts one of our exposed players, then the Devils trade PK (and take on well over half of his remaining money) + a draft pick (probably a second) to get that player back...I'm sure that Seattle is doing its homework and realizes that PK isn't going to do a hell of a lot for them in his season there...their best hope will be to get a mid-round pick for him at next year's deadline. 

Unfortunately the max retention in any deal is 50%.  

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35 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Unfortunately the max retention in any deal is 50%.  

Thanks...gotta imagine Seattle would request a full 50% retention then, along with a pick and/or a meh prospect...which leads to the big question...would you rather give up a 2nd or 3rd and possibly a warm body and retain half of his cap hit to dump PK (assuming Seattle would indeed be willing to draft a Devil that the Devils would want back, in a "wink-wink" trade), or just suck it up for one more year, then try to move PK at the deadline for whatever you can get (won't be much obviously)?

Curious to see if there's any chance PK gets moved this season, but seems like a longshot...just don't see who would want him, based on what we've seen since he's been here.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Thanks...gotta imagine Seattle would request a full 50% retention then, along with a pick and/or a meh prospect...which leads to the big question...would you rather give up a 2nd or 3rd and possibly a warm body and retain half of his cap hit to dump PK (assuming Seattle would indeed be willing to draft a Devil that the Devils would want back, in a "wink-wink" trade), or just suck it up for one more year, then try to move PK at the deadline for whatever you can get (won't be much obviously)?

Curious to see if there's any chance PK gets moved this season, but seems like a longshot...just don't see who would want him, based on what we've seen since he's been here.  

 

He has been much more reliable this year compared to last, but I don’t know if anyone wants to take him for an extra year. Even if we pick up half.

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We started sucking once we got Vatanen. You might say nah that coincides with the team coming back from covid. But I'll point out we sucked once we traded for him the first time. He's bad mojo.

Also I'll point out that Hughes was having his most productive time when he was playing with Wood. Bring on the hate.

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18 minutes ago, Max20Characters said:

We started sucking once we got Vatanen. You might say nah that coincides with the team coming back from covid. But I'll point out we sucked once we traded for him the first time. He's bad mojo.

Also I'll point out that Hughes was having his most productive time when he was playing with Wood. Bring on the hate.

I mean you’re right about Wood, put Hughes on a line with our leading goal scorer and good things happen. 

While confirming that Wood still had the lead, I noticed this nugget. If anyone still thinks +/- is a measure of anything at all, we have only three players on our team that are minus right now. 
 

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1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

 

While confirming that Wood still had the lead, I noticed this nugget. If anyone still thinks +/- is a measure of anything at all, we have only three players on our team that are minus right now. 
 

Extra meaningless when your PP and PK are in the sh!tter and are often the key turning points in determining wins and loses.

Edited by titans04
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3 hours ago, Max20Characters said:

We started sucking once we got Vatanen. You might say nah that coincides with the team coming back from covid. But I'll point out we sucked once we traded for him the first time. He's bad mojo.

Also I'll point out that Hughes was having his most productive time when he was playing with Wood. Bring on the hate.

This is just not true. Vatanen was vital to that playoff run. You can make a case he was the 3rd most important piece after Hall and Kinkaid that year (and maybe Nico). 

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1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

This is just not true. Vatanen was vital to that playoff run. You can make a case he was the 3rd most important piece after Hall and Kinkaid that year (and maybe Nico). 

Yeah definitely not true and him getting knocked out of that series definitely hurt any chance we had of winning that series.

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