GDT: Rags @ Devils 7:00 PM MSG, MSG+2

[AEWHistory]

3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

First bolded:  exactly..."if".  Enough with ifs.  At some point, it's time to do something else.  

Second bolded:  That's why they probably have to overpay a worthwhile UFA.  They will have the money to do this...Zajac and Palms come off this year, and PK next year.

@MB3 Palms is a guy who (until this season) averaged 30 G per 82 GP as Devil, so it's safe to say that out of any given 82 GP block, that Palms won't score a goal in, say 57-60 of those games.  So yeah, he's going to have some extended droughts, just like many scorers who aren't 40+ goal scorers do.  That being said, assuming this is just going to be a crappy season for him (players do have them), I think the Devils can deal him for whatever they can get and then consider re-signing him, provided it's not to a long-term deal, and provided he is no longer getting first-line minutes.  I think Palms in a bounceback year can be a decent second-liner, and hopefully if he were retained on a two-year deal, by the second year, some younger is nipping at his heels, and basically forcing the Devils to consider moving him for a piece that could help elsewhere...think a Henrique for Vatanen kind of deal (at the time it was made).

I know the chances of a big-name UFA coming here are very slim, but geez, it does feel like it's time to make a big-time offer to one.  

I didn’t really answer this part before, my bad.  I completely agree.  Use the cap money to accumulate some more guaranteed talent.  That said, how many FAs would have fit that description?  They have to be good, a FA of course, willing to come to NJ, and someone who will be around awhile, right?  I feel like with those criteria we have whittled down the selection to damn near no one.  I’m not saying there is anything wrong with this criteria either, but I wonder if we are asking for something that just hasn’t been an option really?

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

19 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

First bolded:  exactly..."if".  Enough with ifs.  At some point, it's time to do something else.  

Second bolded:  That's why they probably have to overpay a worthwhile UFA.  They will have the money to do this...Zajac and Palms come off this year, and PK next year.

@MB3 Palms is a guy who (until this season) averaged 30 G per 82 GP as Devil, so it's safe to say that out of any given 82 GP block, that Palms won't score a goal in, say 57-60 of those games.  So yeah, he's going to have some extended droughts, just like many scorers who aren't 40+ goal scorers do.  That being said, assuming this is just going to be a crappy season for him (players do have them), I think the Devils can deal him for whatever they can get and then consider re-signing him, provided it's not to a long-term deal, and provided he is no longer getting first-line minutes.  I think Palms in a bounceback year can be a decent second-liner, and hopefully if he were retained on a two-year deal, by the second year, some younger is nipping at his heels, and basically forcing the Devils to consider moving him for a piece that could help elsewhere...think a Henrique for Vatanen kind of deal (at the time it was made).

I know the chances of a big-name UFA coming here are very slim, but geez, it does feel like it's time to make a big-time offer to one.  

What I am saying is you still need to make those "If" moves AND try another route as well.

A 5th for Ryan Murray is a move you make regardless of what else is going on. If he sucks who gives a sh!t, it's a 5th. 

The UFA route for the Devils just doesn't seem like an option right now regardless of money. It's sad but the team does not have the pull to get people to sign here. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

4 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Henrique was 26 with 2 years left on his deal when he was traded for Vatanen. Palmieri will be 32? 33? In this scenario. 

There isn’t single scenario that should include Kyle Palmieri as a Devil following this year’s trade deadline. I don’t care what his goals-per-82-games is at; he’s a declining player who contributes less-than-zero unless he’s scoring the goal. 

We could deal with his scoring droughts when he wasn’t literally the worst player on the ice unless he’s standing at the top of the circle on a powerplay. But now? He actively hurts this team and it cannot continue past this upcoming season. You talked about the Devils getting complacent in losing; he’s the poster child for complacency.

I don't see him as being complacent...I see it more as him having a bad year and just not able to fully get it going, and right now it's like I said earlier, his mistakes have a way of leading to goals against...not always right away, but in time.  I'm not fully convinced that he's on full-on decline just yet, but his age definitely has to be factored in.

Re:  regarding the 30 G-per-82 GP...of course, the big question is he still that player?  He was the past five seasons.  He hasn't been this season so far...he's now getting the chances again, but he's not burying them.  And yeah, we've been over the mistakes and miscues that are hurting the team...if you are 100% convinced that this is the player he's going to be going forward, then yeah, I wouldn't want to bring him back either.  Right now I can definitely tell you that I'm not interested in him being re-signed to anything over two years...if he can get more term elsewhere, by all means, best of luck to him.  If the Devils have a plan to upgrade over him by bringing another player in via trade or UFA, same...best of luck, thank you for five fine, cost-effective seasons...too bad Season #6 wasn't more of the same.  But if there's no one from within to fill his spot, and the Devils are unable to make something happen, then OK, here you go Palms:  two year offer, no NMC or NTC, take it or leave it.  I am willing to bring him back, but on strict terms...hell, if he wants to come back on a one-year "prove myself again" kind of deal, I'd probably prefer that to two years.  

4 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

What I am saying is you still need to make those "If" moves AND try another route as well.

A 5th for Ryan Murray is a move you make regardless of what else is going on. If he sucks who gives a sh!t, it's a 5th. 

The UFA route for the Devils just doesn't seem like an option right now regardless of money. It's sad but the team does not have the pull to get people to sign here. 

I don't entirely disagree with the above, but it seems like the "if" move has been the default for a while now.  And like I mentioned in another post, the relatively low costs makes these moves very easy to defend (I've taken that viewpoint often myself).  Yeah, on one hand, great...didn't cost much, so what was really lost?  On the other, they're not moving the needle much, and now the Devils have a guy who's being scratched.  You start to wonder "Man, if all it takes is a 5th-rounder to get this guy, maybe it's time to aim a little higher?"  The irony is that I love it when those kinds of moves pay off, but I just feel like this well is being pumped dry.  

I do agree that the UFA route will be a tough one for the Devils, and it's not one that I usually endorse heavily, but they are going to have a ton of money...at least explore it.  Provided Nico isn't becoming a cursed player (man I hope not, very fond of him, and the 1-2 punch that he and Jack should bring at C), and Mac can become steady, and Smith is the real deal, there's some fine young talent here.  Maybe there is a chance that a higher-profile UFA would be willing to take the Devils' money...might as well find out.  

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

39 minutes ago, AEWHistory said:

I think the latter part of your post is what the real issue is.  By the time Lou made the move for Lemieux the Devils had been slowly accumulating talent for years.  They had a farm team stacked full of goalie prospects that could be moved for example.  Consider that at roughly the same time the NHL was full of Devils goalies: Billington, Burke, Terreri, Dunham (later), and I am forgetting one or two I think.  So as much as we all want the Devils to make a move—I’m dying to see a return to glory as well—the current state of the franchise doesn’t have nearly as many assets as the Devils of the early to mid 90s.  
 

I do believe they are trying to accumulate these assets.  I think it is why they keep signing these “I hope it works out” players.  It is a cheap way to accumulate talent or trade them and accumulate picks (and hopefully talent or just to use as bargaining chips).  Right now, though, we don’t have enough players to even field a full NHL quality team at times, let alone trade away assets for better players.  Lou had the luxury of having both a pretty good team AND good developing players.  It provided so much more flexibility.  That’s my $.02.

Yeah I've been over how difficult Shero's job was...he basically had to try to re-build the NHL AND the AHL teams, simultaneously...the cupboard was that bare.  He did show considerable creativity in trying to make that happen.  

And yeah not to talk about Lou too much, but he did inherit some nice young talent when he was here...he added to it, but Lemaire provided the blueprint on how to win with it.  I think Ruff has an idea of what he wants to do, but doesn't have the right players just yet.

And yeah, as much as I'm just getting tired of these "I hope it works out" players that are kinda passing through, I get why those deals are made.  Really hope the players being drafted (like Holtz, Mercer, etc) and ones already here (like Bahl) will pan out fairly soon.  Seems like that's where almost all of our hope has to lie.  

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

Eh, it’s a fine line. He’s at his most effective when he’s getting under opposing players skin. I’d rather have him leading the team in PIM than Kyle Palmieri...

Edit: It’s actually McLeod, but Palmieri is close. 

That’s fine. But getting a breakaway and taking a goalie interference penalty when your PK couldn’t stop a beach ball is not good. 

[Nicomo]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

That’s fine. But getting a breakaway and taking a goalie interference penalty when your PK couldn’t stop a beach ball is not good. 

Neither is how easy we are to play against right now. 

[Max20Characters]

Palmieri has become the Brian gionta after his 40+ goal season. All his shots either go wide or directly into the logo on the jersey.

[Nicomo]

This is why I’m at least somewhat worried about Blackwood. Who knows what the long term effects of this damn thing are on athletes (look at Rossi). And Blackwood seems to have been hit the hardest by it on the Devils. 

[Nicomo]

Just now, Max20Characters said:

Palmieri has become the Brian gionta after his 40+ goal season. All his shots either go wide or directly into the logo on the jersey.

Gio had 5 more 20+ goal seasons after that (3 in NJ). 

[mfitz804]

8 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Neither is how easy we are to play against right now. 

That’s fair. Although taking more penalties with our PK would only make it easier. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by mfitz804

[Jerrydevil]

I refuse to get on an emotional yo-yo about Kyle Palmieri, and if he wants to come back to NJ after he's a rental this spring, I'm all for it. A UFA with ability and passion who wants to be here? Sign me up. Yeah, I don't like the gaffes either and he got beaten on the boards for a goal last night. But he's not cooked like Zajac is. 

I don't see a huge decline in Palmieri's game, he can still skate and he gets chances. Even if this is his last year as a Devil, I want him on the ice and the power play because there's decent chance he heats up and increases his trade value. It's the name of the game.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Jerrydevil

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

This is why I’m at least somewhat worried about Blackwood. Who knows what the long term effects of this damn thing are on athletes (look at Rossi). And Blackwood seems to have been hit the hardest by it on the Devils. 

Damn, that is as telling as it gets...especially that on a side note, the only team Buffalo has managed to beat is the team that ALSO had a brutal COVID-19 outbreak.  Has to be more than coincidence.

Really gotta wonder how much these players have been affected...and how long-term the effects might be.  

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[MadDog2020]

3 hours ago, MB3 said:

They need guys who can pick corners. You hope Holtz is one -- the future of the franchise sorta depends on it. And then you think maybe Foote is another in that shoot-first mold. But I'm exhausted of this 2013-Devils style "outshoot your opponent by 15, lose by three" garbage. 

If you think you’re exhausted with that sh!t, you ain’t alone. I’ve flat out HAD IT with this team’s inability to snipe, or produce any talent that knows how to fvcking snipe. It’s a disease that’s pervaded this organization for years and I want it fvcking eradicated.

[Devil Dan 56]

11 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

If you think you’re exhausted with that sh!t, you ain’t alone. I’ve flat out HAD IT with this team’s inability to snipe, or produce any talent that knows how to fvcking snipe. It’s a disease that’s pervaded this organization for years and I want it fvcking eradicated.

I'm with you guys. You can probably name all the players we had who could routinely beat a goalie clean on one hand. 

The NHL posted a list of the most goals in a season for every franchise. We are the only franchise that started before the 90's who has never had one 50 goal scorer. Its incredible. 

[mfitz804]

The game evolved; we won 3 Stanley Cups without a sniper. You can’t win without those guys anymore. 

And we got the first overall pick in two years where the BPA was not that guy. 

[HellOnICE]

Just now, mfitz804 said:

The game evolved; we won 3 Stanley Cups without a sniper. You can’t win without those guys anymore. 

And we got the first overall pick in two years where the BPA was not that guy. 

Won 3 cups w/o a sniper? 

1995 - Stephane Richer was nothing if not a goal scorer, so was John MacLean, and Claude even had years of 30/40 before the Cup year. 

2000 - Alex Mogilny? Sykora was a shooter. Elias had 35 that year

2003 - Yes, not as many shooters, but still had good O talent up there.

[mfitz804]

12 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

Won 3 cups w/o a sniper? 

1995 - Stephane Richer was nothing if not a goal scorer, so was John MacLean, and Claude even had years of 30/40 before the Cup year. 

2000 - Alex Mogilny? Sykora was a shooter. Elias had 35 that year

2003 - Yes, not as many shooters, but still had good O talent up there.

I’m not saying we had zero goal scorers, but we never had an elite sniper. 

Richer was 15th in the league in goals in 1995 with 23, in a half season. Good, approaching that 50 goal pace, but not quite. 

Elias was 11th in 2000 with his 35, the league leader had 59. 

Mogilny definitely was a sniper in his career, but barely scored in 1999-00. 7 goals in 35 games between regular season and playoffs is hardly sniping. His next year, when we didn’t win the Cup, he had 43. And then he was gone. 

Sykora had 34 in 1999-00 between regular season and playoffs. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by mfitz804

[Devilsfan118]

42 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I'm with you guys. You can probably name all the players we had who could routinely beat a goalie clean on one hand. 

The NHL posted a list of the most goals in a season for every franchise. We are the only franchise that started before the 90's who has never had one 50 goal scorer. Its incredible. 

Always makes me chuckle that the closest anyone's ever come to 50 in a Devils jersey was Brian Gionta, who totally abused to new "post lockout" rules to just plant himself in front of the net.

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Always makes me chuckle that the closest anyone's ever come to 50 in a Devils jersey was Brian Gionta, who totally abused to new "post lockout" rules to just plant himself in front of the net.

What a screen the little man provided. 

[Devil Dan 56]

Here was that graphic I mentioned

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Always makes me chuckle that the closest anyone's ever come to 50 in a Devils jersey was Brian Gionta, who totally abused to new "post lockout" rules to just plant himself in front of the net.

2005-06 is a year that should really be thrown out...remember Jonathon Cheechoo (56 goals that year)?  A lot of goofy numbers that year (including Carolina as a team).  

[HellOnICE]

35 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I’m not saying we had zero goal scorers, but we never had an elite sniper. 

Richer was 15th in the league in goals in 1995 with 23, in a half season. Good, approaching that 50 goal pace, but not quite. 

Elias was 11th in 2000 with his 35, the league leader had 59. 

Mogilny definitely was a sniper in his career, but barely scored in 1999-00. 7 goals in 35 games between regular season and playoffs is hardly sniping. His next year, when we didn’t win the Cup, he had 43. And then he was gone. 

Sykora had 34 in 1999-00 between regular season and playoffs. 

15th in the league in scoring is a Sniper. Even with the short amount of teams. Same for 11th. 

[Devilsfan118]

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

2005-06 is a year that should really be thrown out...remember Jonathon Cheechoo (56 goals that year)?  A lot of goofy numbers that year (including Carolina as a team).  

Jonathan Cheechoo, man now there's a name I haven't thought about in forever.  Holy sh!t yeah almost a 60 goal scorer.

Had to google his stats - actually came close to 40 the following season before falling off a cliff.  Cherry picking a bit, but 130 goals in his first four seasons (305 gp), then only 40 in his final three seasons (196 gp).

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

15th in the league in scoring is a Sniper. Even with the short amount of teams. Same for 11th. 

If that’s how you define a sniper, ok. I don’t. 

[titans04]

Somehow I still find it crazy that Brian Gionta scored 48 in a season. Bravo sir, bravo.