GDT: Rags @ Devils 7:00 PM MSG, MSG+2

[HellOnICE]

Last year, William Nyrlander was 15th in the league, is he not a sniper? He was 1 goal/spot behind Panarin.

 

2 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Somehow I still find it crazy that Brian Gionta scored 48 in a season. Bravo sir, bravo. 

That whole season was a semi-albatross of stats.

Edited March 5, 2021 by HellOnICE

[Satans Hockey]

8 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Here was that graphic I mentioned

 

I hate that they use past teams for these stats, at first glance I was like who the hell is Blaine Stoughton and when did he play for Carolina, same with Goulet on Colorado. Also have Selanne listed for Arizona. 

Those real answers should be...

Arizona - Keith Tkachuk - 52

Carolina - Eric Staal - 45

Colorado - Joe Sakic - 54

Dallas - Mike Modano - 50

Winnipeg - Patrik Laine - 44

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, HellOnICE said:

Last year, William Nyrlander was 15th in the league, is he not a sniper? He was 1 goal/spot behind Panarin.

In today’s NHL, probably was. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

I’m not saying we had zero goal scorers, but we never had an elite sniper. 

Richer was 15th in the league in goals in 1995 with 23, in a half season. Good, approaching that 50 goal pace, but not quite. 

Elias was 11th in 2000 with his 35, the league leader had 59. 

Mogilny definitely was a sniper in his career, but barely scored in 1999-00. 7 goals in 35 games between regular season and playoffs is hardly sniping. His next year, when we didn’t win the Cup, he had 43. And then he was gone. 

Sykora had 34 in 1999-00 between regular season and playoffs. 

Mogilny had a couple of big years...76 goals in 92-93, and 55 goals in 95-96.  The only other season he scored over 40 was in 2000-01 (43 as you pointed out...did that in 75 GP).  He was a sniper though, for sure.

What was interesting about Mogilny's short stint here was in his first 64 games as a Devil (includes the 2000 playoffs), he scored just 14 goals...Lou was actually exploring trading him earlier on in the 2000-01 season (7 goals through 28 GP), then out of nowhere, he just went on a complete tear...he scored 20 goals over his next 20 games, and finished the regular season with 36 goals over his final 47 regular season games in 2000-01...add the first 8 playoff games of that season, and he scored 40 goals over 55 GP.  Unfortunately after that, he cooled off for the rest of the playoffs...just one goal in his last 17 games (part of the reason the Devils cooled off in general I'm sure, after going on that 22-2-0 run that was the most dominant in Devils history...they outscored the opposition 105-46).

So for a 55 game stretch in 2000-01, Mogilny was sniping with the best of 'em.

[mfitz804]

13 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Mogilny had a couple of big years...76 goals in 92-93, and 55 goals in 95-96.  The only other season he scored over 40 was in 2000-01 (43 as you pointed out...did that in 75 GP).  He was a sniper though, for sure.

What was interesting about Mogilny's short stint here was in his first 64 games as a Devil (includes the 2000 playoffs), he scored just 14 goals...Lou was actually exploring trading him earlier on in the 2000-01 season (7 goals through 28 GP), then out of nowhere, he just went on a complete tear...he scored 20 goals over his next 20 games, and finished the regular season with 36 goals over his final 47 regular season games in 2000-01...add the first 8 playoff games of that season, and he scored 40 goals over 55 GP.  Unfortunately after that, he cooled off for the rest of the playoffs...just one goal in his last 17 games (part of the reason the Devils cooled off in general I'm sure, after going on that 22-2-0 run that was the most dominant in Devils history...they outscored the opposition 105-46).

So for a 55 game stretch in 2000-01, Mogilny was sniping with the best of 'em.

Agreed, Mogilny definitely fits the bill. But he didn’t snipe anything in 1999-00 when we won, which was my point.  That’s the kind of guy I’m talking about. Elias was a great goal scorer, no doubt, but were other teams afraid of him scoring whenever he touched the puck? We’re fans so we’re biased, but I don’t ever remember that happening.

To me, that’s a sniper. 

[Devil Dan 56]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed, Mogilny definitely fits the bill. But he didn’t snipe anything in 1999-00 when we won, which was my point.  That’s the kind of guy I’m talking about. Elias was a great goal scorer, no doubt, but were other teams afraid of him scoring whenever he touched the puck? We’re fans so we’re biased, but I don’t ever remember that happening.

To me, that’s a sniper. 

I agree with how you describe it. 

When Kovy had the puck and a clear shot at the net, there was a chance he was going to pick a corner and beat that goalie clean. I don't feel that way about anyone on our roster.

Palms can do it at times. Zacha has a great shot but doesn't use it much (although he's doing better recently) but there's no one who strikes any fear in an opposing goalie or defense. Wood scares goalies for other reasons. 

With the way Hughes can create space and find open guys he could do some great things with a pure shooter. 

[devlman]

Alexander Mogilny was a sniper. Whether or not he had a dip in goals the year we won the cup doesn’t make him not a sniper. He was always a threat to snipe it. Opened up space for his teammates.

[mfitz804]

10 minutes ago, MB3 said:

You don't think 15th in the league in scoring is a sniper?

The Devils aren't going to add a Connor McDavid. If the Devils find someone who finishes top-15 in goals, they're going to be fvcking incredible. Laine finished last year 22nd. Is he not a sniper? The year before, Matthews was 17th. How about that guy? The year before that, Brayden Point finished 15th. That guy is the definition of a sniper.

You need a new word, if you don't want those players. 

I think you missed my second post. I agreed in today’s NHL that’s true. 

When guys were regularly scoring 60, I wouldn’t call a guy who was scoring 30 a “sniper”. 

I’ll also add that the term “sniper” is so subjective that it renders this entire debate ridiculous. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by mfitz804

[Satans Hockey]

23 minutes ago, MB3 said:

 

You need a new word, if you don't want those players. 

Maybe clutch is the right word? I definitely get what he's trying to say. It certainly doesn't feel like we have anyone who can change the game for us when we need it most and besides Hall's MVP season it's been a long time since I've felt we had. 

[mfitz804]

Just now, Satans Hockey said:

Maybe clutch is the right word? I definitely get what he's trying to say. It certainly doesn't feel like we have anyone who can change the game for us when we need it most and besides Hall's MVP season it's been a long time since I've felt we had. 

I would add to that, who the fvck said I wouldn’t want them? There’s 50 guys in this league, sniper or not, that aI would like to add to our team. 

[mfitz804]

9 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I think you're just moving the goalposts now. You were asked if top-15 in the league in scoring defines a "sniper" and you said no. I think that's a silly statement to make. 

Yes, I don’t think automatically the 15th highest goal scorer is a “sniper”. If you want to apply that term to anyone who scores 30 goals, maybe then it’s true. That’s not the case, in my opinion. 

If anyone is moving the goalposts, it’s you trying to claim that I wouldn’t want any of those guys on my team, which I never said and wasn’t even what we were discussing. My comments related to the players we had when we won our Cups, while the guys you mentioned weren’t born or were in diapers at best. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Agreed, Mogilny definitely fits the bill. But he didn’t snipe anything in 1999-00 when we won, which was my point.  That’s the kind of guy I’m talking about. Elias was a great goal scorer, no doubt, but were other teams afraid of him scoring whenever he touched the puck? We’re fans so we’re biased, but I don’t ever remember that happening.

To me, that’s a sniper. 

Not really, but like devlman said, he still had a sniper's rep.  What was funny was Alex was calling himself "a plumber" in his 2000 stint here, basically making it sound like he didn't really believe in his ability to score anymore, so he was trying to contribute in other ways.  One thing I've heard about him is that his confidence was VERY up-and-down, and when it wasn't going in for him, he'd really have a hard time getting through those droughts...in his last three seasons in Vancouver, he scored 56 goals in 169 G (after scoring 86 in his first 155 GP as a Canuck)...the feeling I remember at the time was "What the hell happened to Mogilny?" (he wasn't old...late 20s when that timeframe began).  That continued to NJ...a guy who once scored 76 goals in a single season had scored just 63 over his last 197 regular season games, just before he exploded...I could be remembering this wrong, but I could've sworn that someone in the organization (might have been Lou, someone else, or a combo) simply told him to relax...and then just like that, the dam completely burst.   

re:  Elias, I would say he was more "respected" than "feared".  No, he wasn't necessarily a guy that other teams were afraid of AFAIK.  And he had that two-year stretch (just after he signed his big contract to stay in NJ) where he had some of the worst puck-luck that I've ever seen.  He shot 12.4% for his career, but in those two seasons shot just 7.9% and 7.6%...if I'm Taylor Hall, I look at those seasons for Elias and what came after, and say "OK, he got through that, I will too."  (Hall's shooting 6.3% over his last 86 GP).  

[NJDevs4978]

2 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Here was that graphic I mentioned

 

Nashville, woof..

[mfitz804]

9 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Not really, but like devlman said, he still had a sniper's rep.  What was funny was Alex was calling himself "a plumber" in his 2000 stint here, basically making it sound like he didn't really believe in his ability to score anymore, so he was trying to contribute in other ways.  One thing I've heard about him is that his confidence was VERY up-and-down, and when it wasn't going in for him, he'd really have a hard time getting through those droughts...in his last three seasons in Vancouver, he scored 56 goals in 169 G (after scoring 86 in his first 155 GP as a Canuck)...the feeling I remember at the time was "What the hell happened to Mogilny?" (he wasn't old...late 20s when that timeframe began).  That continued to NJ...a guy who once scored 76 goals in a single season had scored just 63 over his last 197 regular season games, just before he exploded...I could be remembering this wrong, but I could've sworn that someone in the organization (might have been Lou, someone else, or a combo) simply told him to relax...and then just like that, the dam completely burst.   

re:  Elias, I would say he was more "respected" than "feared".  No, he wasn't necessarily a guy that other teams were afraid of AFAIK.  And he had that two-year stretch (just after he signed his big contract to stay in NJ) where he had some of the worst puck-luck that I've ever seen.  He shot 12.4% for his career, but in those two seasons shot just 7.9% and 7.6%...if I'm Taylor Hall, I look at those seasons for Elias and what came after, and say "OK, he got through that, I will too."  (Hall's shooting 6.3% over his last 86 GP).  

I can agree with that. Not sure that it was Mogilny's rep that won that Cup, but he did have that rep. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

13 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I can agree with that. Not sure that it was Mogilny's rep that won that Cup, but he did have that rep. 

There was so much praise to go around for that Cup win, but yeah, not going to say Mogilny was any major factor...outside of being a name that still had to be respected.