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GDT: Devils @ Bruins (Again) - 7:00pm MSG+2


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4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

On this team?? Nobody has been consistently effective, it’s why we have maybe 1-2 guys that will get 25 points this season.

Hughes was for the first 3 games. 

Zacha was for 10-11 games

Palms has been for 2 weeks. 

Etc. 

But am I more encouraged by the fact that Kuokkanen has 16 points as a 3rd or 4th liner than that Jack has 16 as our #1 center? Probably. 

Tbf Kuokkanen has been seeing a lot of ice time since Ruff put him with Zajac and Sharongovich . And he’s been playing top 6 minutes for a while now.  

His last 5 games TOI:

14:06

14:11

16:06

15:59

16:58


Jack’s last 5:

17:03

14:11

11:48 (that’s the game he got benched)

17:37

14:11

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I know this is a GDT thread so hyperbole is often excused following a tough loss, but the kid is 19. That’s a 1 followed by a 9. He’s battled through Covid and is playing 57 games a week all the while

Saying he’s not creating is false. He’s not finishing. There’s a big difference. 

It was basically 2 minutes for history of douchebaggery. 

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20 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

There's a certain point where "unlucky" gets to be a bad argument. 10 points in 30 games out of 33 games played isn't just "unlucky". 

Like I said, plenty of reasons to think his future is bright. But thinking he has been "outstanding" when he's basically been mostly ineffective at generating any scoring is a stretch. 

Since you’re so points-oriented you’ll have to seriously consider the amount of scoring chances Palmieri has cost Jack this season. Don’t forget how dreadful Palms has been most of the year. Also, no Nico and no Bratt early in the year, bad PP, etc...there’s a ton of reasons why Jack’s point totals are suppressed. But again, focusing on point totals to evaluate a 19 year old doesn’t make any sense to begin with. 

 

13 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

On this team?? Nobody has been consistently effective, it’s why we have maybe 1-2 guys that will get 25 points this season.

Hughes was for the first 3 games. 

Zacha was for 10-11 games

Palms has been for 2 weeks. 

Etc. 

But am I more encouraged by the fact that Kuokkanen has 16 points as a 3rd or 4th liner than that Jack has 16 as our #1 center? Probably. 

The 22 year old Kuokkanen with several years of pro experience isn’t seeing the other team’s top pairings nor is the opposition game planning around him. He’s been good so far but it’s apples and oranges trying to compare him to Jack.

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This year has been so fvcked in general (especially with the Covid outbreak, lack of practices, and insane compression of the schedule) that I'm inclined to more or less give everyone a pass...as irritated as I sometimes get with the results (and especially nASS and W-recky).   

Jack has another offseason to put on more muscle (or at the very least gain back what was lost), and hopefully will have legit practices and occasionally longer than two days off between games.  

If he shows up stronger and is getting the benefit of practices and is somehow still struggling to put up points (even if it's not all his fault), and we're headed into 2022, then I'm going to start to worry a little.  But not today.

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19 minutes ago, devlman said:

Since you’re so points-oriented you’ll have to seriously consider the amount of scoring chances Palmieri has cost Jack this season. Don’t forget how dreadful Palms has been most of the year. Also, no Nico and no Bratt early in the year, bad PP, etc...there’s a ton of reasons why Jack’s point totals are suppressed. But again, focusing on point totals to evaluate a 19 year old doesn’t make any sense to begin with. 

Yes, there are many reasons and none of them are Jack. It’s everyone else’s fault. Please. 

 

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7 minutes ago, devlman said:

The 22 year old Kuokkanen with several years of pro experience isn’t seeing the other team’s top pairings nor is the opposition game planning around him. He’s been good so far but it’s apples and oranges trying to compare him to Jack.

Age is just a number, and fact is that Jack is in the NHL and is a pro now. Pointing out he's playing against competition like multiple Selke winning Patrice Bergeron, generational counterpart Sidney Crosby, high flying future hall of famer Alexander Ovechkin, one of the best coached teams in the league, and defensive powerhouse, New York Islanders, and other elite players in the division which include Panarin, Backstrom, Barzal, Malkin, Girux, Couturier, Rat, Eichel, etc are just excuses. 50000 super mega atomic danger quality chances-- who gives a sh!t if it doesn't go in the net. Straight up disappointment.

/s

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5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Yes, there are many reasons and none of them are Jack. It’s everyone else’s fault. Please. 

 

Lol never said none were related to him. He’s 19, he’s going to have lots of faults still.

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3 minutes ago, devlman said:

Lol never said none were related to him. He’s 19, he’s going to have lots of faults still.

You just chose not to mention them. 

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Just now, mfitz804 said:

You just chose not to mention them. 

Why would I? It’s already been mentioned countless times that he’s 19. Didn’t think that would require further expansion on the faults of a young player.

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1 minute ago, devlman said:

Why would I? It’s already been mentioned countless times that he’s 19. Didn’t think that would require further expansion on the faults of a young player.

And nobody has mentioned all of the other excuses that you did mention? You’re delusional. 

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Just now, mfitz804 said:

And nobody has mentioned all of the other excuses that you did mention? You’re delusional. 

Ok bud whatever you say. Keep moving goal posts. I can get the last word in, too!

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8 minutes ago, devlman said:

Ok bud whatever you say. Keep moving goal posts. I can get the last word in, too!

You’re arguing, on the one hand, that he hasn’t had a sh!t year because he’s only 19 and you can’t go by stats, but also it’s the fault of his line mates, the PP, other players’ slumps, who he plays against, etc. 

And I’m moving goal posts??

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Hughes is a frail kid. He’s 19. There’s a lot of physical maturation to go. 
 

Am I annoyed this year hasn’t been his breakout year? Yes.

Am I worried about the future because of this? Absolutely not. Had he not shown flashes of being elite the first 10 games, yes, I would be worried. The fact that he showed ability out of the gate this year to be elite seems to be causing more frustration here than relief. 

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5 minutes ago, Devils Pride 26 said:

Hughes is a frail kid. He’s 19. There’s a lot of physical maturation to go. 
 

Am I annoyed this year hasn’t been his breakout year? Yes.

Am I worried about the future because of this? Absolutely not. Had he not shown flashes of being elite the first 10 games, yes, I would be worried. The fact that he showed ability out of the gate this year to be elite seems to be causing more frustration here than relief. 

Which sums up exactly what I said, except I called his stats sh!t. 

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5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

You’re arguing, on the one hand, that he hasn’t had a sh!t year because he’s only 19 and you can’t go by stats, but also it’s the fault of his line mates, the PP, other players’ slumps, who he plays against, etc. 

And I’m moving goal posts??

You have summed up my position accurately. Your position is all over the map that you’re moving constantly goalposts and confusing yourself in the process. It started with Jack has 16 pts = Jack bad. Then when someone explains to you why point totals are stupid to solely evaluate him on, it becomes ‘well why won’t you acknowledge his faults??!!’  Goal post shuffling all day all night. Take a nap.

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Just now, mfitz804 said:

Which sums up exactly what I said, except I called his stats sh!t. 

You didn’t call his stats sh!t. You said he was having a sh!t year. More goal post moving.

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31 minutes ago, devlman said:

You didn’t call his stats sh!t. You said he was having a sh!t year. More goal post moving.

Sure. Was I talking about something other than his stats? If fact, didn't you criticize me for only basing an opinion on stats? 

So who’s moving the goal posts again??

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41 minutes ago, devlman said:

You have summed up my position accurately. Your position is all over the map that you’re moving constantly goalposts and confusing yourself in the process. It started with Jack has 16 pts = Jack bad. Then when someone explains to you why point totals are stupid to solely evaluate him on, it becomes ‘well why won’t you acknowledge his faults??!!’  Goal post shuffling all day all night. Take a nap.

No, that’s not quite what happened. I said 10 points in 30 games = bad, you blamed everything under the sun other than Jack, except also because of his age, and I pointed out that you blamed 10 other factors aside from the guy himself. Then you made the asinine point that “it’s all been discussed before, why dwell on it” when literally everything you said has already been discussed. 

Certain people on this site cannot hear criticism of Jack. You are one of those people. 

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28 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

No, that’s not quite what happened. I said 10 points in 30 games = bad, you blamed everything under the sun other than Jack, except also because of his age, and I pointed out that you blamed 10 other factors aside from the guy himself. Then you made the asinine point that “it’s all been discussed before, why dwell on it” when literally everything you said has already been discussed. 

Certain people on this site cannot hear criticism of Jack. You are one of those people. 

I’m willing to criticize and discuss him if it goes beyond point production because that is the most basic and least intelligent of conversations. Your argument however never goes beyond that.

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7 minutes ago, devlman said:

I’m willing to criticize and discuss him if it goes beyond point production because that is the most basic and least intelligent of conversations. Your argument however never goes beyond that.

It's gone beyond that every time. "There's reasons to be hopeful for the future, but presently, he is not producing." If English isn't your first language, I would be happy to get an interpreter for you. 

The real problem is, you and some others who love Hughes want to see him for more than he is right now. If you love players that have great metrics who "create" and skate fast and never finish and never put up actual points, which are the things you actually need to win games, we should just get Jacob Josefson back.  

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Josefson had 20 G in 315 GP

Hughes has 14 G in 95 GP

JJ played on a team that went to the SCF and had players like Parise and Kovy. 

Hughes plays on a team that’s in 7th place and Miles Wood is leading the team in goals. 

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4 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Josefson had 20 G in 315 GP

Hughes has 14 G in 95 GP

JJ played on a team that went to the SCF and had players like Parise and Kovy. 

Hughes plays on a team that’s in 7th place and Miles Wood is leading the team in goals. 

Those are all facts. the additional fact to be added is, JJ had nothing to do with the team going to the SCF. I am sure his 1 assist in the playoffs did not make the difference there. 

I will point out that I did not compare the two, Jack is clearly not on that level, thankfully. 

JJ is also one of the few guys from that era that left our team and actually found another job, albeit for only 39 games and in Buffalo. I wonder how many NHL forwards have played 8 NH: seasons (parts of, anyway) and hit double digits in goals or assists only once (10A in 2015-16). Has to be hard to stick around with those kind numbers. My first thought was former Devil Troy Crowder, who of course was not in the NHL to play hockey, but he only played parts of 6 seasons. 

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10 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Those are all facts. the additional fact to be added is, JJ had nothing to do with the team going to the SCF. I am sure his 1 assist in the playoffs did not make the difference there. 

I will point out that I did not compare the two, Jack is clearly not on that level, thankfully. 

JJ is also one of the few guys from that era that left our team and actually found another job, albeit for only 39 games and in Buffalo. I wonder how many NHL forwards have played 8 NH: seasons (parts of, anyway) and hit double digits in goals or assists only once (10A in 2015-16). Has to be hard to stick around with those kind numbers. My first thought was former Devil Troy Crowder, who of course was not in the NHL to play hockey, but he only played parts of 6 seasons. 

The Red Wings thought that Crowder could turn into another Bob Probert...he wound up becoming very injury-prone.  Best thing about him going to the Wings (as a Group 1 FA) is that the Devils were entitled to compensation.  Lou asked for Probert himself (undoubtedly feeling confident in having been awarded Stevens when Shanahan signed with the Blues as a Group 1).  Red Wings offered Randy McKay and Dave Barr...the arbitrator awarded the Devils this package.  Devils won by losing...McKay was the most productive player from that point forward.  Red Wings got exactly seven games out of Crowder...ouch.  

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