2021 New York Mets season thread

[NJDevs4978]

fvcking Pillar...it's bad enough you were part of that stupid thumbs down nonsense with the moody twins, worse that you're hitting .230 but when you strike out on one of Chapman's 86 MPH sliders in the dirt fvckING RUN YOU POS!  Any goodwill he earned with his bravery after being conked in the face is long gone now.

['7']

May...if it's not Diaz/Familia it's someone else. You just can't let these games slip away. Now we got freaking Carrasco against a rejuvenated Yankee team. Lugo had such a good quick inning...maybe best they would've let him go another. Even if they generally don't do that. If he went 2 innings and allowed a run...fine you still have a lead going into the 9th at least

[NJDevs4978]

Lugo had seven lousy pitches, might as well have given him another inning but can’t have those up downs!

[NJDevs4978]

And again fvcking Rojas has his jabroni lefty reliever pitch to STANTON (who always destroys us) with a base open instead of walking him for .200 hitting lefty Joey Gallo with the predictable bomb the end result. Rojas may be ten times the human being Callaway is but he might actually be more clueless as a manager, which I didn’t think was possible.

Edited September 13, 2021 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

Where has THIS Lindor been all season and can we keep him?!

[NJDevs4978]

And here comes Diaz to predictably urinate in our Cheerios

Holy crap, he actually managed not to blow it - barely. Stanton, Gardner and the Yankees can all fvck off for their whistling sh!t and jawing at Lindor after he called them on it.

Shockingly only three games out of the second Wild Card…

Edited September 13, 2021 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Yeah not quite dead yet, though it’s impossible to have any confidence that they’ll find any way to put a real streak together.  They’re just too flawed.

['7']

Two out of the playoffs disappointing clubs actually got together and played a memorable series. If both these teams were actually top of their division...we'd be looking back at these games as memorable classics...there'd be whispers of an October preview.

I'm amazed...they could've swept 'em. Would it have made a difference? Probably not, too much ground to make up. Too few games. And there's always Diaz and Rojas lurking to take the air out of our sails when it looks like things are starting to turn (or the bats will make some Marlin scrubs look like Maddux/Glavine)

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

5 hours ago, '7' said:

Two out of the playoffs disappointing clubs actually got together and played a memorable series. If both these teams were actually top of their division...we'd be looking back at these games as memorable classics...there'd be whispers of an October preview.

I'm amazed...they could've swept 'em. Would it have made a difference? Probably not, too much ground to make up. Too few games. And there's always Diaz and Rojas lurking to take the air out of our sails when it looks like things are starting to turn (or the bats will make some Marlin scrubs look like Maddux/Glavine)

If nothing else...Diaz and Rojas have gotta go.  Evan absolutely owned Rojas on the WFAN last week...one thing Evan nailed about Rojas is that guy can't EVER admit he made a mistake...which says to me that he's incapable of learning from them.

And for ONCE, I'd really like the Mets to stop being the Land of Endless Chances.  Don't tell me what great stuff Diaz has.  Don't tell me that he's this close to putting it all together.  I've seen enough...NO ONE trusts this fvcking guy in big spots...yes, he'll go on some nice runs, but that fact that we're ALWAYS waiting for the other shoe to drop says it all...we didn't just decide to feel that way one day.  Repeated implosions have conditioned us never to trust him.  So don't fvcking shove him down our throats yet again next season...just move the fvck on already.  

Mets are 72-72, hard to imagine they'll win much more than 83 games.  Cracks me up when there's blurbs about deGrom and Syndergaard...what's the point, with 18 games left in the season?  Just shut them both down.  I have no doubts deGrom would love to get in a couple of starts to end his season, but there's just nothing to gain here.  Who knows how anxious Syndergaard really is to get back out there...but that being said, I don't think he's another Cespedes by any stretch.  Kudos to every MLB team that didn't get suckered into to offering him a deal.   

 

 

[Nicomo]

Holy sh!t just saw this online.

 

 

[NJDevs4978]

Typical letdown after a big win with another punking from Wainwright and kinda surprising trash talk afterward

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Holy sh!t just saw this online.

 

 

The human part of me feels horribly for that guy.

The sick part of me wishes it could've been Angel Hernandez or Joe West on the receiving end.

[NJDevs4978]

How do we know the Yankees don’t have something more elaborate set up? At the very least it’s not great optics to pull that after all their complaining about the Astros, especially after the Apple Watch fallout they only got a slap on the wrist for. Not to mention they used video room sign stealing too before the warning.

https://sny.tv/articles/what-are-the-yankees-accused-of-in-signstealing-scandal-and-what-are-the-facts

If they only got the pitches because of old fashioned tipping why would you need to whistle them? Everyone should know the tell if there’s a tell.

Edited September 14, 2021 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

Eh to me anything other than the batter picking up a tell with the pitcher’s motion or the runner on second seeing the catcher get careless with signs can get sketchy. You steal the sign on the field that’s one thing. If you need off field assistance that is more toward the sketchy area and certainly if there’s technology involved that’s obviously over the line. 

[NJDevs4978]

Anyway the ESPN four part series on the ‘86 Mets is tonight and tomorrow. I’m sure it’ll be entertaining but I wonder how much we actually find out that’s new and not already highly suspected at least.

Edited September 14, 2021 by NJDevs4978

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Anyway the ESPN four part series on the ‘86 Mets is tonight and tomorrow. I’m sure it’ll be entertaining but I wonder how much we actually find out that’s new and not already highly suspected at least.

Yeah I'll watch but I'm pretty sure it's all been told (Jeff Perlman's "The Bad Guys Won" recycled many of the well-known tales of the 1986 Mets).  Just like Whitey Ford said when asked yet again about the days when he, Mick, Billy and others would paint the town every last shade of red...basically said all of the stories had already been told a million times, and he had nothing new to add.  

Edited September 14, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 hours ago, MB3 said:

Did you play baseball? That's not how any of this works, lol. Oftentimes a tip is only visible from one angle. Acknowledging the tip, making the connection, and swinging all before a 94 mph fastball hits the glove behind you isn't a real thing. 

And "how do we know the Yankees don't have something more elaborate set up" is just a silly question. How do we know the Mets aren't cheating? How do we know the Rays aren't all weird robots created in the fish tank at Tropicana field. How do we know the Red Sox don't use buzzer butt-plugs to identify when a runner is stealing second?

They were in Citi field, is a good start (unless you think the Yankees wired every ballpark in baseball, including a stadium they only see three times a year?). The best example, I'll call "exhibit duh": the Yankees, after four consecutive seasons of a top-3 offense, are ~10th (out of 15) in the AL in total offense this year. Behind juggernauts like the Detroit Tigers and the Minnesota Twins. They strike out the 4th most. They have a team .236 batting average. They're bottom-five in RBIs. Dead fvcking last in doubles. Bottom 3 in slugging. They are a flat out garbage bin offense this year.

If the Yankees actually did start cheating this year... ya know, they should probably stop.

I don't think the Yankees whistling to signal pitches (if that's what they were even doing) is that big of a deal...if a guy's tipping his pitches, then of course you're going to tell your teammates, and even try to do it in real time.  As long as the Yankees weren't using any video or other tech to steal signs or anything like that, I can't get on them.  And Walker's been bad enough in his last 10 starts (7.38 ERA and an ungodly 17 HRs allowed in his last 50 IP) that you can't help but wonder if a LOT of other teams have noticed that he's tipping his pitches, but were simply more subtle in exploiting it.   

That being said, cheating doesn't always lead to the intended ("positive") results.  There's 'roiders who still weren't all that much better once they went on the juice.  Jimmy Johnson admitted that he used to have people trying to pick up the opposition's signaling of plays, but abandoned it simply because he didn't really think it was helping him all that much.  So though I'm not accusing the Yankees of cheating here, I will say that some teams who are trying to cheat simply aren't benefitting from it...but obviously doesn't mean that they're not guilty by virtue of suckage.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, MB3 said:

Comparing it to other sports is sort of disingenuous. There have been two major cheating scandals in baseball; the 2017 Astros and 2018 Red Sox. Both teams saw an entire roster worth of career seasons (many that never got repeated afterwards). 

The Yankees don’t have a single player having a career year; and you can argue that the only two players on the team playing at their talent level this season are Aaron Judge and Giancarlo Stanton — still well below their career best numbers. 

And I said right in my post that I don't think the Yankees themselves are cheating, and am not trying to imply that they were.  I was making the point that players and teams sometimes cheat without it paying off...meaning that a player or team not producing (in other cases, not the 2021 Yankees) doesn't mean there's absolutely zero chance of shenanigans happening.

As far as cheating scandals in MLB go, you're forgetting about the 1951 Giants too, when they were apparently using a telescope from behind CF, then relaying the signals via buzzer back to the dugout.  This started on July 20...the team went 51-18 from that point on (after starting 47-41).  Of course the "how"s regarding how this was done came out way after the fact.  And like I said, you had a HELL of a lot of players 'roiding up at one point (some guys are still getting caught even now).    

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Kinda hard to believe (mostly because he's been inconsistent and prone to maddening moments...he's also had some "fatten up" games that have blown up his numbers), but I'm pretty sure we can all live with the Lindor that's put up these numbers since 5/29:

64 GP (61 GS), 261 PA, 225 AB, .262 BA, .353 OB%, .511 SLG% (.864 OPS), 45 R, 14 HR, 43 RBI, 29 BB, 48 K (pretty good ratio these days)

Of course, due to the inconsistency and occasional WTF moment, his numbers don't FEEL quite as good as they look...and when you add in that 18 of his RBI came in four games, that can help it feel like he hasn't been as productive as his overall numbers suggest.  But still, I'll happily take these rate numbers over a 550 AB season.  

['7']

Another gut wrenching loss. And of course winning run on 3rd, 1 out...and Lindor hits into a double play (one which if the roles were reversed the Mets would've booted the ball into the mezzanine)

one run lead in the 8th. Naturally that means Familia needs to give up a walk and immediate home run. If it's not one gutless choker (Diaz) it's always the other (Familia)

But after that performance vs the Yankess Lindor had to get that run in, and he turned into David Wright.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Meh, the 2021 Mets are what they are.  They're 12 games under .500 since starting 35-25.  There's just no reason to believe in them anymore.

Apparently Cohen and my boy Alderson are going to pick a baseball ops president (or whatever they want to call the title) together.  Why Sandy has ANY say in hires with his track record here is beyond baffling.  As long as he manages to hire the right guy (either Theo or Beane) and gets the fvck outta the way, I'll live with it.

Saw both episodes 1 and 2 of Once Upon a Time in Queens last night (yep, I'd rather watch that than the 2021 edition), and it is really well done.  Much of the first episode is dedicated to the early history of the Mets, the rough beginnings, the 1969 WS Championship, how much it hurt to see Tom Seaver dealt in 1977 (about a month before the blackout riots in NYC, which was obviously a mess at the time even before that), how the Mets had been a trainwreck for years...and then the team's sold to Doubleday, Cashen comes aboard and slowly starts bringing in the pieces that would be lead to the 86 juggernaut.  

I really like the way they've structured the shows so far...in some cases, they show a clip of a given player coming out on to the field, from a clip of the World Series intros on TV, then delve into that player's history, with clips from the player himself (where possible obviously...Gary Carter is no longer with us).  Though the shows are not necessarily presenting THAT much that's new to hardcore Mets fans who know just about everything there is to know about the 86 team, they're doing it in a highly entertaining way.  What's funny is even now, you can tell that though Keith very much respected Carter's abilities on the field (for the most part...more on that in a bit), Gary's gee-whiz God-squad personality just grated on Keith in a huge way...and when you hear clips of Gary talking, you can easily see why he'd rub a lot of ballplayers the wrong way.  Though Carter was a leader of sorts, it's pretty clear that Keith was tops in a lot of ways...Sid Fernandez mentioned that Gary would come to the mound to talk strategy, then as he was walking back to the plate, Keith would simply say "Screw that, just throw your fastball" or something that would completely contradict what Carter said...Sid admittedly that he deferred to Keith, who he saw as the real leader of the team.  And on a side note re:  Keith, I'm sorry, that guy should be in the Hall of Fame...he was a beast on the field (one of the best defensive first basemen ever...10 Gold Gloves) and even if he didn't hit a ton of home runs, he was a hell of a hitter (.296 lifetime, and his slash was .301/.391/.445 through the 1987 season), and as clutch as they come.  He was dynamic and dominating, regardless of not having massive power numbers for a first baseman.

The one shame about the 86 team is that it's not hard to see why they couldn't go on a true multiple-WS run.  Gary and Keith were already 32, and would start their declines soon after.  There was actually a lot of youth elsewhere on the team, but we know what happened with Doc and Straw...and some of the kids who were supposed to keep this thing going in the years to come (Elster, Jefferies, etc) were disappointments.  And Cashen made some bad moves...Kevin McReynolds was obviously a fine player, but he didn't fit the Mets one bit.  And fiery guys like Backman and Dykstra were dealt for guys who didn't help...Dykstra and McDowell for Juan Samuel was just brutal.    

Edited September 15, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah it wasn't so much new information (so far) as it was more background and context.  I didn't quite realize Doc's parents had the Ty Cobbish backstory (allegedly in Cobb's case his mom shot his dad dead though), or that the Keith-Gary rivalry for alpha dog was quite as pronounced as it was.  And yeah the format itself is pretty easy to follow - intersperse a quasi-profile of a player with background stuff in between the profiles.

You do wonder why they had to have so many offbeat personalities with loose ties to NY and not involve Gary/Howie or more than one or two local reporters.  I don't really get the Howard Bryant connection (apart from him working at ESPN) unless he's a NY guy or worked here at the time?  McEnroe is another story, he was actually at his peak and a NY guy when the Mets were having their period of dominance in the mid-80's so he's as relevant as any of the non-player celeb cameos.  Billy Beane's cameos were kind of a fun indulgence admittedly, I didn't realize he was still part of the organization as late as '85 and in the Teufel deal.  The comment about seeing Cashen and it triggering something about wanting to be him was pretty revealing.

They probably have to get into the whole Maz comeback and the ugliness around Foster's exit in the third part tonight since they still have a little ways to go in the '86 regular season. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by NJDevs4978

[NJDevs4978]

Wouldn't shock me if even the diehards flipped to ESPN by 8 rather than watch the current edition.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Parts 3 and 4 were pretty good…obviously lots of time spent on the NLCS and World Series.  Plenty of great behind-the-scenes footage and alternate camera angles of various events.  I watched a TON of those games back in 86 (I was 16), and it was a lot of fun to relive those days.  Mets were a damned good team, and came SO close to coming up empty in the postseason.

Well-done epilogue as well, re:  Cashen’s sudden desire to tear down what he’d worked so hard to build.  Guess he had his reasons.

The 2021 team is dead to me.  All I gotta say is if Lindor and Baez are somehow supposed to be the dual leaders of this team going forward, this franchise is fvcked.  

[NJDevs4978]

Almost felt bad for Foster showing up to Game 6 in business clothes, reminded me of Robbie Ftorek in his plain white shirt watching the Devils in the 2000 playoffs after Lou fired him.

I’m sure some of Cashen’s tear down was Fred influenced, we know he wanted choirboys and to be cheap though I’m sure his own ego was a part of it too, pretty fvcking ruthless to basically tell Knight to take a hike the day of the parade less than a week after the WSMVP. In spite of the way it ended here I think Cashen’s whole career deserves serious HOF consideration.

Mitchell constantly talking about swag was my favorite meme. I never realized Ojeda was in such dire condition during the playoffs assuming it’s not some self indulgent exaggeration after the fact lol.

Lenny’s genuine indignance over Carter being the first one to go and Keith never really getting the post retirement rapprochement with his dad just added poignance to the already sad epilogue at the end. But still a fun watch even with that.

Edited September 16, 2021 by NJDevs4978