GDT- Round 1 of 4: Rags @ Devils 7:00 PM MSG, MSG+

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, titans04 said:

So she's into advanced stats you say? 

She’s rational, she’s not an idiot. 

[mfitz804]

11 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Now I see why you guys are together - opposites attract, so they say. 

Here I was thinking it was my monster schlong. 

[SterioDesign]

13 hours ago, Lateralous said:

I don’t think that analogy works in this case because we acquired PK for pennies on the dollar from Nashville specifically because it had become obvious he was wildly overpaid.  He was pretty clearly their 4th best defenseman at best his last season there and they wanted out.   

I know you’re not a fan of him but if there was anyone that was under the impression we were ever getting a player that justified the salary in that deal, that’s on them.  What we gave up in the trade made that pretty clear. That being said, its possible for him to have both a terrible contract and still be a big upgrade from what we were sending out on D each night.   

Why woudnt it work based on how we got him? We're still paying his salary right? He's still a player with a 9m price tag attached to him? Would you enjoy having insanely high car payments for a honda civic... because your cousin traded the payments to you for a snowblower and moose meat? 

It's not just about us. A bad contract is a bad contract. It's creating a precedent. Now other dmen negotiating can compare their stats with Subban's stats and salary.

[Lateralous]

9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Why woudnt it work based on how we got him? We're still paying his salary right? He's still a player with a 9m price tag attached to him? Would you enjoy having insanely high car payments for a honda civic... because your cousin traded the payments to you for a snowblower and moose meat? 

It's not just about us. A bad contract is a bad contract. It's creating a precedent. Now other dmen negotiating can compare their stats with Subban's stats and salary.

These analogies don’t make any sense in this situation.  

Again, why does the salary matter in a cap world where we have a top and bottom limit and struggle to hit the latter?  Whether or not he was a Devil, everyone in the league knew it was a bad contract during most of his tenure in NAS, hence why we got him for nothing.   If PK Subban was playing anywhere close to his salary at any time in the last half decade, he’s probably not a New Jersey Devil in the first place.   
 

If you know you’re buying a lemon in advance and still buy that lemon, that’s on you.  It’s a simple concept.   We bought super low because he was a drag on Nashville’s salary structure as their 4th D at 9 million.   He also happened to be better than what we had at the time.  He was still never ever, ever close to a player that justified a 9 million dollar salary from the day we traded for him so why pretend like we should expect that from him?  Its like trading for 2020 Cory Perry but holding him to 2011 Cory Perry even though its clear he lost a step to anyone that watched any 2 consecutive games he’s played in the last few years.  

[mfitz804]

7 hours ago, Lateralous said:

These analogies don’t make any sense in this situation.  

But, you know you are Canadian if your analogy contains a reference to moose meat. 

[DevsMan84]

12 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said:

It seems like we have the same discussions about the same things and same players over and over again a few times a year. How many times have we had it out over the advanced stats now?

*By the way I also meant to quote you on my Homer Simpson gif above, nerd.

EDIT: I don't really get the reason for all the hostility. If you don't subscribe to the idea of advanced stats then just ignore them. A sign of the times with how salty people are around here.

It doesn't help when after each game like the last one when guys like Masisak, Cordell, Chauvancy and the like flood your social media feeds with graphs and charts showing how great we were in a 3-0 loss to our biggest rivals.  Kinda the same feeling a lot of you guys had here with me constantly pointing out Hughes disappointing on the scoresheets.

Again, my main issue with a lot of the advanced stat crowd is how much they evangelize it in just about every single situation.  In our wins we were terrible in some metrics but when we lose we were awesome in other metrics.  It gets tiring and far too often the good metrics do not equate good outcomes.  At best it is plain bad optics..

[mfitz804]

40 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

In our wins we were terrible in some metrics but when we lose we were awesome in other metrics.  It gets tiring and far too often the good metrics do not equate good outcomes.  At best it is plain bad optics..

Which is my exact point. If sometimes they are accurate, and almost as often, they aren’t, they’re useless. 

[DevsMan84]

18 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Which is my exact point. If sometimes they are accurate, and almost as often, they aren’t, they’re useless. 

They sometimes even clown themselves.  Cordell's meltdown over the Devils not re-signing Beau Bennett is what comes to mind immediately.  Guy was an advanced stat stud but was one of the least productive players ever.

[NJDevils1214]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

It doesn't help when after each game like the last one when guys like Masisak, Cordell, Chauvancy and the like flood your social media feeds with graphs and charts showing how great we were in a 3-0 loss to our biggest rivals.  Kinda the same feeling a lot of you guys had here with me constantly pointing out Hughes disappointing on the scoresheets.

Again, my main issue with a lot of the advanced stat crowd is how much they evangelize it in just about every single situation.  In our wins we were terrible in some metrics but when we lose we were awesome in other metrics.  It gets tiring and far too often the good metrics do not equate good outcomes.  At best it is plain bad optics..

I don't know why you're getting mad at things on Twitter and then brining that here though. Post the hate at those people on Twitter then or unsubscribe from their feeds.

As far as it goes here some people here like to talk about it and It's a discussion board so I don't know what to tell you. 🤷‍♂️ People need to desalt themselves and chill out. Everyone is frustrated about losing but taking it out on each other just hurts the incentive to come here. 

If they lost the game a graph isn't going to tell me that they should have won, but it might tell me that they were at least doing some things right or wrong. Everything needs to be taken in context. 

[Devilsfan118]

I just wish we had on-ice topics to discuss / argue about. 

I am so exhausted with Devils hockey being meaningless for 80% of the year.  I can barely muster up the interest to watch these games at this point because... who cares?  What does it matter?  These games are literally inconsequential and we could just as easily wrap up the season tomorrow and no one would care.

I clearly don't have the emotional bandwidth to root for two dogsh!t teams, between RU football and Devils hockey.  At least RU seems on the up-and-up, though.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Devilsfan118

[NJDevs4978]

18 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

I don’t even know if they have their place CR.... they used to have ‘their place’. And then nerds who never played sports started running teams across pro sports, and all of a sudden this sh!t has taken on a much bigger role than it should ever have taken on. I have two eyes. I played and coached hockey for several years. I know what my eyes tell me when I watch games. And I don’t need advanced stats to tell me what’s happening. Expected goals? Assists? Shots? Shot attempts? Who fvcking cares. How many ACTUAL goals? Assists? Shots? Shot attempts? Because that’s all that fvcking matters in the end. If I had a dime for every time the Devils ‘dominated the advanced stats’ but lost over the last several years, I’d be typing this message from my beachfront retirement home, and not from the desk at my office. 

The most offputting part about the analytics crowd for me is when the analytics don’t gibe with the results on ice it’s always unsustainable bad luck, short sample size or his line mates suck. It’s never maybe these numbers aren’t quite 100% gospel on everything yet, there’s always gotta be an excuse.

Edited April 15, 2021 by NJDevs4978

[mfitz804]

19 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

The most offputting part about the analytics crowd for me is when the analytics don’t gibe with the results on ice it’s always unsustainable bad luck, short sample size or his line mates suck. It’s never maybe these numbers aren’t quite 100% gospel on everything yet, there’s always gotta be an excuse.

That’s literally what they are used for. Especially on this board. But point that out and you get blasted. Which is fine, I don’t mind confrontation, as a few of you may have noticed. 

[Jerrydevil]

Can we go back in time and see some shot assist charts for the A-Line, EGG Line and ZZ Pops? I'd like to see those, to see if any of those players were as good as Jack Hughes at creating chances.

[mfitz804]

Might as well draw a chart of who drinks out of their Gatorade bottle the best, it’s just as relevant. 

Except for Blackwood, it checks out that he sucks at it. 

 

[DevsMan84]

2 hours ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I don't know why you're getting mad at things on Twitter and then brining that here though. Post the hate at those people on Twitter then or unsubscribe from their feeds.

As far as it goes here some people here like to talk about it and It's a discussion board so I don't know what to tell you. 🤷‍♂️ People need to desalt themselves and chill out. Everyone is frustrated about losing but taking it out on each other just hurts the incentive to come here. 

If they lost the game a graph isn't going to tell me that they should have won, but it might tell me that they were at least doing some things right or wrong. Everything needs to be taken in context. 

I am not getting mad, but it is silly as could be.  I don't have to bring Twitter on here as like you said there are people here who already like to discuss these things.

I know this is a discussion board.  However, I don't need to tell you that certain topics are far more tolerated to be discussed than others.  Just because people are pointing out the silliness of the advanced metrics being brought out during a Devils shutout loss doesn't mean you and others have to get very defensive about it.

There's that line again "everything needs to be taken into context."  After years of getting curb-stomped by practically everyone in the league myself and others are pretty tired of hearing about putting things into context.  Telling me that yet again we had a larger % share of the expected goals in a shutout loss is not exactly the message people want to hear.

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

That’s literally what they are used for. Especially on this board. But point that out and you get blasted. Which is fine, I don’t mind confrontation, as a few of you may have noticed. 

The crowd on just this board who like advanced stats keep telling us to scroll on by when they post their charts and graphs yet in the same breath get defensive about us pointing out the fallacy of said stats.  It's strawman and you can never win with that crowd.

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not getting mad, but it is silly as could be.  I don't have to bring Twitter on here as like you said there are people here who already like to discuss these things.I

Also, people are literally bringing that stuff from Twitter and posting it here, and then we reply to their post. It’s not those who are upset by it that are “bringing it” from Twitter. 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

The crowd on just this board who like advanced stats keep telling us to scroll on by when they post their charts and graphs yet in the same breath get defensive about us pointing out the fallacy of said stats.  It's strawman and you can never win with that crowd.

Exactly. It’s as if they think they can discuss whatever they like, but nobody can have the opposing viewpoint. Not once have I told anyone not to post advanced stats, that wouldn’t be my place. But I have been criticized for bringing up why they are horsesh!t. 

[DevsMan84]

1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

Also, people are literally bringing that stuff from Twitter and posting it here, and then we reply to their post. It’s not those who are upset by it that are “bringing it” from Twitter. 

Those charts/graphs that are posted here after most games about shot assists/attempts are literally posted by a guy on Twitter lol.

[mfitz804]

8 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Those charts/graphs that are posted here after most games about shot assists/attempts are literally posted by a guy on Twitter lol.

Which, in my opinion, makes it a fair subject for discussion. Yet people think they can just post things and nobody can express an opinion about them. On a message board. 

[titans04]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Might as well draw a chart of who drinks out of their Gatorade bottle the best, it’s just as relevant. 

Except for Blackwood, it checks out that he sucks at it. 

 

w/expected spillage while putting on the left skate first that night vs those whose choose the right skate