GDT - Round 4 - JUST WIN - NYR at Devils 4/18 - 3pm MSG+

[DevsMan84]

Just now, SterioDesign said:

We're not that terrible when "again" that you look into context. We lost like 90% of our games by 1 goal when we had a roster full of rookies who all did pretty well and will get better. Vets that didnt do much and our best player missing the whole season. How many of those games could have went our way with a little extra? Would make a huge difference. Just looking purely at results is such a bad way to look at this.

That's not what i suggested with the trades. We now have guys that we like but not untouchable. Trading a guy like Zacha or McLeod now when we already have hughes and Nico is not the same then back then having to trade Henrique who was our top center to get defensive help. We're a lot deeper than we were. 

We just lost 4 in a row to the Rangers (and 12 out of the last 14) because we had few players who could finish and half of our defense couldn't get out of the zone without committing a turnover.  That's pretty thin.  Like I said before we do have players on the way who could help, but those are still question marks as they all have 1 NHL game between the 4 of them.  We are not quite as deep as you think we are.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

We're not that terrible when "again" that you look into context. We lost like 90% of our games by 1 goal when we had a roster full of rookies who all did pretty well and will get better. Vets that didnt do much and our best player missing the whole season. How many of those games could have went our way with a little extra? Would make a huge difference. Just looking purely at results is such a bad way to look at this.

That's not what i suggested with the trades. We now have guys that we like but not untouchable. Trading a guy like Zacha or McLeod now when we already have hughes and Nico is not the same then back then having to trade Henrique who was our top center to get defensive help. We're a lot deeper than we were. 

13 of the losses came by one goal.  They’ve lost plenty by more.  But given the current roster, I would expect more lopsided losses.  Earlier on these season they were definitely more competitive, as far as the final score goes (Blackwood was also playing out of his mind earlier on at times too).

[jagknife]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

We just lost 4 in a row to the Rangers (and 12 out of the last 14) because we had few players who could finish and half of our defense couldn't get out of the zone without committing a turnover.  That's pretty thin.  Like I said before we do have players on the way who could help, but those are still question marks as they all have 1 NHL game between the 4 of them.  We are not quite as deep as you think we are.

We're deep on potential. Yeah, it isn't guaranteed to translate into victories or even results, but its a hell of a lot better than trotting out the trash we did last decade. There is hope. Dare I say even potential to move that hope for proven assets?

[EdgeControl]

7 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Which is why I don’t ascribe to that. The Kovy contract would’ve ended up being bad but it wouldn’t have affected us in the slightest. Maybe he would have been good enough to help us squeak into the playoffs a couple times, make us more attractive to free agents, etc.

Saving the money did nothing for us.

 

Losing the first round pick for the kovy contract debacle was a big loss.. Instead of getting into the lottery for players like draisaitl, larkin, pasta, etc.. We got boner boy

[mfitz804]

22 minutes ago, EdgeControl said:

Losing the first round pick for the kovy contract debacle was a big loss.. Instead of getting into the lottery for players like draisaitl, larkin, pasta, etc.. We got boner boy

But we wouldn’t have lost anything had there been no debacle. I’m talking about his contract, not his ridiculous “retirement”. 

[SterioDesign]

5 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

13 of the losses came by one goal.  They’ve lost plenty by more.  But given the current roster, I would expect more lopsided losses.  Earlier on these season they were definitely more competitive, as far as the final score goes (Blackwood was also playing out of his mind earlier on at times too).

13 losses came by a goal. And we were scored 10 empty netters against us this year so far.

So this means that at least 10 times we were likely down a goal and pulled the goalie and got scored on and lost by 2 goals on the scoresheet.

So that could mean that really 23 of our losses were by a goal. That we got scored an EN pulling the goalie doesnt really tell the story.

Edited April 20, 2021 by SterioDesign

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

2 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

13 losses came by a goal. And we were scored 10 empty netters against us this year so far.

So this means that at least 10 times we were likely down a goal and pulled the goalie and got scored on and lost by 2 goals on the scoresheet.

So that could mean that really 23 of our losses were by a goal. That we got scored an EN pulling the goalie doesnt really tell the story.

Have we actually managed to score a goal with the extra man this season? I can't remember us doing this. 

[DevsMan84]

13 hours ago, jagknife said:

We're deep on potential. Yeah, it isn't guaranteed to translate into victories or even results, but its a hell of a lot better than trotting out the trash we did last decade. There is hope. Dare I say even potential to move that hope for proven assets?

The thing is, a lot of our previous moves in the past 2-3 seasons has been picks or marginal players for literally the most expendable players on other teams.  Sometimes it works out (Palmieri), often times it doesn't (Johnsson, Subban, etc).

What I am calling for is an actual franchise-changing move.  One that changes the complexion of the team.  I am talking about a Hischier + 2021 1st rounder for Eichel or Hischier for Laine straight-up kind of deal.  That deals takes guts in addition to assets to do and I just don't really think management, and especially ownership, has those guts.

[Crisis]

35 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

The thing is, a lot of our previous moves in the past 2-3 seasons has been picks or marginal players for literally the most expendable players on other teams.  Sometimes it works out (Palmieri), often times it doesn't (Johnsson, Subban, etc).

What I am calling for is an actual franchise-changing move.  One that changes the complexion of the team.  I am talking about a Hischier + 2021 1st rounder for Eichel or Hischier for Laine straight-up kind of deal.  That deals takes guts in addition to assets to do and I just don't really think management, and especially ownership, has those guts.

I don't think it's fair to say that the Subban trade didn't work out.  The Devils traded peanuts for their workhorse defenseman.  That's putting the cap space to work.  Imagine Mueller or Butcher or Siegenthaler having to play those sorts of minutes.

[DevsMan84]

23 minutes ago, Crisis said:

I don't think it's fair to say that the Subban trade didn't work out.  The Devils traded peanuts for their workhorse defenseman.  That's putting the cap space to work.  Imagine Mueller or Butcher or Siegenthaler having to play those sorts of minutes.

Subban has so far been alright.  Not bad, but not what we thought we were getting.  At the time of the trade, a lot of people, including many on here, were calling it a fleecing because we thought he could regain his Montreal form.  That hasn't been the case.  Preds literally traded him so that they could sign someone they thought would be better for them and he was the most expendable player.

I see the trade as mostly a lateral move.  While the defense would probably be worse without him, both the overall d-corps and team hasn't improved with him on there.  He's definitely in the "spare parts & picks for a reclamation project" move that the Devils have done way too many times in the past 5 years with mixed results at best.  We can't always be looking to be the recipients of other teams most expendable players if we truly want to weaponize cap space.

Edited April 20, 2021 by DevsMan84

[Crisis]

31 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Subban has so far been alright.  Not bad, but not what we thought we were getting.  At the time of the trade, a lot of people, including many on here, were calling it a fleecing because we thought he could regain his Montreal form.  That hasn't been the case.  Preds literally traded him so that they could sign someone they thought would be better for them and he was the most expendable player.

I see the trade as mostly a lateral move.  While the defense would probably be worse without him, both the overall d-corps and team hasn't improved with him on there.  He's definitely in the "spare parts & picks for a reclamation project" move that the Devils have done way too many times in the past 5 years with mixed results at best.  We can't always be looking to be the recipients of other teams most expendable players if we truly want to weaponize cap space.

Dude, he's our #1 dman.  Name a more capable defenseman that played for this team since Rafalski bounced.  Maaaybe Paul Martin.. checks notes.. 12 years ago.

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

Subban has so far been alright.  Not bad, but not what we thought we were getting. 

Except for @SterioDesign

[Devil Dan 56]

20 minutes ago, Crisis said:

Dude, he's our #1 dman.  Name a more capable defenseman that played for this team since Rafalski bounced.  Maaaybe Paul Martin.. checks notes.. 12 years ago.

Just to add to this, despite his reputation as a distraction (translation: having a personality) he seems to be a big part of the locker room from what we've seen. He's seems to be bringing a little levity and positivity to a young group that badly needs it. 

As frustrating as this season has been for us, I'm sure it's even worse for these kids. We saw Jack finally bubble over this weekend. 

[DevsMan84]

3 hours ago, Crisis said:

Dude, he's our #1 dman.  Name a more capable defenseman that played for this team since Rafalski bounced.  Maaaybe Paul Martin.. checks notes.. 12 years ago.

While young, Ty Smith will probably pass Subban by next season.  I have also seen the advanced stats crowd make statements about Severson deserving Norris consideration earlier this season (even though I think it's nonsense).

I also find it funny you say he's our most capable defenseman.  This is njdevs, the same forum that was calling for his head throughout last season and at several points this season.

Plus I wouldn't put too much stock in him being the best of possibly the worst d-corps in the league.  

[SterioDesign]

5 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

The thing is, a lot of our previous moves in the past 2-3 seasons has been picks or marginal players for literally the most expendable players on other teams.  Sometimes it works out (Palmieri), often times it doesn't (Johnsson, Subban, etc).

What I am calling for is an actual franchise-changing move.  One that changes the complexion of the team.  I am talking about a Hischier + 2021 1st rounder for Eichel or Hischier for Laine straight-up kind of deal.  That deals takes guts in addition to assets to do and I just don't really think management, and especially ownership, has those guts.

I'd do it. I love Jack and Nico but i just don't see them as guys who get you a cup like Toews and Toews or wtv. I sure hope i'm wrong though

[DevsMan84]

4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I'd do it. I love Jack and Nico but i just don't see them as guys who get you a cup like Toews and Toews or wtv. I sure hope i'm wrong though

Between the two, I am more inclined to trade Nico simply because Jack seems to have a higher ceiling.  It would suck to trade your captain, but if you got to make a bold move you have to give up good players.

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Between the two, I am more inclined to trade Nico simply because Jack seems to have a higher ceiling.  It would suck to trade your captain, but if you got to make a bold move you have to give up good players.

Yeah same. Nico is safer but i feel he's more like a Staal kind of 3rd line solid center when Pittsburgh had Crosby and Malkin in front. 

[SterioDesign]

What i dont quite understand on here is that you have some fans that are getting upset by our lack of results as a team. They don't care about if the team looked good, learned anything, young team or wtv. Don't care about potential. They straight up want results now. 

But at the same time they are calling out people saying that Jack is not producing enough and don't care that he's "looking good", creating things and just not translating at the moment.

I mean... where's the disconnect? 

Edited April 20, 2021 by SterioDesign

[Crisis]

2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

While young, Ty Smith will probably pass Subban by next season.  I have also seen the advanced stats crowd make statements about Severson deserving Norris consideration earlier this season (even though I think it's nonsense).

I also find it funny you say he's our most capable defenseman.  This is njdevs, the same forum that was calling for his head throughout last season and at several points this season.

Plus I wouldn't put too much stock in him being the best of possibly the worst d-corps in the league.  

Say what you want about what other people are saying or were saying or whatever it is you're saying, I'm still not wrong.  He plays the most minutes, the hardest minutes, and he's trusted by the coach.  That's a solid pickup for trading away marginal NHLers and some whatever picks to eat a oversized salary.

[Devil Dan 56]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

What i dont quite understand on here is that you have some fans that are getting upset by our lack of results as a team. They don't care about if the team looked good, learned anything, young team or wtv. Don't care about potential. They straight up want results now. 

But at the same time they are calling out people saying that Jack is not producing enough and don't care that he's "looking good", creating things and just not translating at the moment.

I mean... where's the disconnect? 

How do you not understand fans venting on a message board after watching their team (who has been losing consistently for around a decade) get crushed in 4 straight by their biggest rival? 

I think we all understand that the farm system is better and that there is much more hope now then there once was. Blackwood, Hughes, Nico all have bright futures. Zacha and Bratt are taking steps. Smith looks like a great pick.  But who wants to watch their team get wrecked and then celebrate the lottery again? Its gotten old and of course people are upset.

It took nearly 9 periods of hockey to get a goal this week. That's pretty awful. 

[DevsMan84]

38 minutes ago, Crisis said:

Say what you want about what other people are saying or were saying or whatever it is you're saying, I'm still not wrong.  He plays the most minutes, the hardest minutes, and he's trusted by the coach.  That's a solid pickup for trading away marginal NHLers and some whatever picks to eat a oversized salary.

Again, being the best d-man on arguably the worst defensive team in the NHL isn't saying a whole lot.  If paying someone $9M a year to be a serviceable defenseman is not what I had in mind when it comes to "weaponizing cap space."

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

How do you not understand fans venting on a message board after watching their team (who has been losing consistently for around a decade) get crushed in 4 straight by their biggest rival? 

I think we all understand that the farm system is better and that there is much more hope now then there once was. Blackwood, Hughes, Nico all have bright futures. Zacha and Bratt are taking steps. Smith looks like a great pick.  But who wants to watch their team get wrecked and then celebrate the lottery again? Its gotten old and of course people are upset.

It took nearly 9 periods of hockey to get a goal this week. That's pretty awful. 

Fans were saying this before those 4 games lol

I understand frustration too. But if people get emotional and have knee jerks reactions that makes no sense or missing context. And put said irrational/double standard/hypocritical opinions online. It's everyone's rights to call them out.

If you wanna vent and not deal with common sense after. Go punch trees, breath in a paperbag or scream into your pillows

The mindset you CHOOSE to have is defining how upset you'll be towards a situation. Most people who are not jumping off bridges on here are generally people with the right mindset and understanding the situations. Getting upset is not helping anything

Edited April 20, 2021 by SterioDesign

[Devil Dan 56]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

Fans were saying this before those 4 games lol

I understand frustration too. But if people get emotional and have knee jerks reactions that makes no sense or missing context. And put said irrational/double standard/hypocritical opinions online. It's everyone's rights to call them out.

If you wanna vent and not deal with common sense after. Go punch trees, breath in a paperbag or scream into your pillows

The mindset you CHOOSE to have is defining how upset you'll be towards a situation. Most people who are not jumping off bridges on here are generally people with the right mindset and understanding the situations. Getting upset is not helping anything

Having the "right mindset" doesn't help anything either. None of us affect anything. The people who are still watching are all still here, no one who is so here has given up on the team, but do you think people honestly want to keep dumping money into a team that Is out of the running every year before the halfway point of the season? 

Who says people aren't using common sense? Its also common sense that people don't want to watch their team be a lottery joke for a decade.