The 2021 Offseason Thread

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

whats your alternative? 

It's not "my" alternative necessarily, but Fitz could try to go to hard after Hamilton (doesn't mean that he'd get him of course), maybe explore trading some youth now for an established piece (like Laine...not saying that I'm bullish on him, but there's more aggressive moves Fitz could look into).

I don't think Fitz is even going to explore those options right now though.  I still think it's one more year of building up the youth base and kids developing.  

If the kids do take steps forward (and the team stays relatively healthy), maybe the Devils can hang around as a bubble team for a good chunk of 2021-22...if they can do that and are entertaining, I could live with that.  

[Crisis]

It was a good listen. I'd say I'm generally optimistic but man, does this guy sound like a total salesman. Aside from me thinking that this interview was mostly part of a book tour for his new one, he just seems like a hype man. He went out of his way to mention like every name on the roster which kind of dilutes the genuine enthusiasm for me.

However, cynic aside, I do think that he is ready to run through a wall to make this a competitive team in the near future like the Sixers, and that's exciting af. I also bought into his (or maybe moreso it was Marek's) philosophy that they are getting the organization ready to be able to support the team when they get good and start rolling. He was pretty blunt about their willingness to spend money. It sounds like the plan is for most to go into the organization before the players. I don't know if this is the summer he opens his wallet to the roster, but I do think they go hard next off-season.

[DevsMan84]

I am not going to get my hopes up based on what that suit says on a podcast.  This is now the 3rd or 4th offseason now where we have management talking about "weaponizing cap space" again and turning around a hockey team and basketball team are two very different processes.  

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's not "my" alternative necessarily, but Fitz could try to go to hard after Hamilton (doesn't mean that he'd get him of course), maybe explore trading some youth now for an established piece (like Laine...not saying that I'm bullish on him, but there's more aggressive moves Fitz could look into).

I don't think Fitz is even going to explore those options right now though.  I still think it's one more year of building up the youth base and kids developing.  

If the kids do take steps forward (and the team stays relatively healthy), maybe the Devils can hang around as a bubble team for a good chunk of 2021-22...if they can do that and are entertaining, I could live with that.  

If that is what the off-season plan is then I am seriously going to question if I should even bother watching games next season.  The team should be exploring every option to get better.  The bolded is the job for farm teams.

I am not expecting meaningful help coming from free agency as I think Hamilton is a pipe dream, but the Devils should be exploring more options on the trade market rather than going dumpster diving for other team's bad contracts for yet another year.  The objective is to make the team better each season rather than being an NHL kindergarten or having the most cost-effective lineup.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

42 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

If that is what the off-season plan is then I am seriously going to question if I should even bother watching games next season.  The team should be exploring every option to get better.  The bolded is the job for farm teams.

I am not expecting meaningful help coming from free agency as I think Hamilton is a pipe dream, but the Devils should be exploring more options on the trade market rather than going dumpster diving for other team's bad contracts for yet another year.  The objective is to make the team better each season rather than being an NHL kindergarten or having the most cost-effective lineup.

I do think they'll explore some mid-tier signings (read:  Coleman) that should help.  But I think right now, their plan is to get better from within, with the hopes that the many of the young players already here will be better in 2021-22 and beyond.

I'm willing (a little begrudgingly) to be patient one more season mostly because I believe that we'll see a real push next off-season...again, I have nothing to base that feeling on...just feels like a hunch.  Not to mention that there's going to be a fvck-ton of money to spend...though it's fair to point that the Devils will have some RFA raises to give out this season (and Jack goes RFA after next season, along with Wood, Zacha, and Bratt...these three are all arbitration eligible).  

[Devilsfan118]

Man I enjoyed that interview to an extent, but did he ever come off as a suit with rich friends.  Just a little too pompous and self-congratulatory for me at times.

It did make me feel like the franchise is in relatively good hands, though.  Seemed to know enough to at least speak somewhat intelligently to what the team needs to be doing here moving forward.

[DevsMan84]

21 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I do think they'll explore some mid-tier signings (read:  Coleman) that should help.  But I think right now, their plan is to get better from within, with the hopes that the many of the young players already here will be better in 2021-22 and beyond.

I'm willing (a little begrudgingly) to be patient one more season mostly because I believe that we'll see a real push next off-season...again, I have nothing to base that feeling on...just feels like a hunch.  Not to mention that there's going to be a fvck-ton of money to spend...though it's fair to point that the Devils will have some RFA raises to give out this season (and Jack goes RFA after next season, along with Wood, Zacha, and Bratt...these three are all arbitration eligible).  

Maye I am being overly pessimistic, but I just don't have that kind of confidence in this team to really make a push either this off-season or next season.  I really hope I am wrong, but if they are staying the course as they have the past few seasons, then this is just going to drag on.

We have a huge amount of money to spend, more than anyone else in the NHL.  The problem is actually using that money.  Top-tier free agents aren't coming to NJ for a variety of factors.  Most players in that category have taken less in recent memory to play on teams that are far more attractive than NJ is this off-season and next off-season.  The players who take the highest bid these days tend to be the lower to mid-tier free agents who likely won't move the needle much.

Significant help will have to come from a trade.  Based on the recent history of the Devils trading picks and spare parts for other teams crap/headaches, don't mind me if I am not as hopeful as you.

[DevsMan84]

19 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Man I enjoyed that interview to an extent, but did he ever come off as a suit with rich friends.  Just a little too pompous and self-congratulatory for me at times.

It did make me feel like the franchise is in relatively good hands, though.  Seemed to know enough to at least speak somewhat intelligently to what the team needs to be doing here moving forward.

He has managed to convince a significant portion of the fans to accept the team being terrible while spending the least amount of money possible is somehow a good thing.  At the same time, our social media team is cheering on the fact that our first round draft pick from trading away two of our roster players, including our top line winger, is getting worse and worse as the Islanders continue to progress in the playoffs.

If I was him, I would be doing cartwheels.

[vadvlfan]

Wasn't sure which thread for this but, just listening to "Under review" on XM brought to my attention the majority of Av's players are from trades, not from drafting. Their drafts were better recently but on current roster most were via trades. Toews, Girard, Graves, Nemeth, Ian Cole , Saad, Burakovsky, Kadri, Donskoi, Nichuskin, Bellemore, Eric Johnson, Grubauer, . They have some guys they hope with be decent pro's "Newhook, Bowen, & Jost.  The big 3 Rantanen, #29, & Landescog all doing well.. Devils need beef on their back end (Oleksiak, Forbert, etc. Maybe Fitz can sign a couple.

[MadDog2020]

40 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm willing (a little begrudgingly) to be patient one more season mostly because I believe that we'll see a real push next off-season

We’ve been saying this verbatim for fvcking YEARS. Enough. THIS off-season I want tangible fvcking improvement. Not next. Not in two years. NOW.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

11 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Maye I am being overly pessimistic, but I just don't have that kind of confidence in this team to really make a push either this off-season or next season.  I really hope I am wrong, but if they are staying the course as they have the past few seasons, then this is just going to drag on.

We have a huge amount of money to spend, more than anyone else in the NHL.  The problem is actually using that money.  Top-tier free agents aren't coming to NJ for a variety of factors.  Most players in that category have taken less in recent memory to play on teams that are far more attractive than NJ is this off-season and next off-season.  The players who take the highest bid these days tend to be the lower to mid-tier free agents who likely won't move the needle much.

Significant help will have to come from a trade.  Based on the recent history of the Devils trading picks and spare parts for other teams crap/headaches, don't mind me if I am not as hopeful as you.

I wouldn't say I'm overwhelmingly hopeful by any stretch.  Based on how things are looking, best-case is a lot of these kids work out, and the Devils lock them up without much problem, because they'll clearly have the money to do it.  Maybe two or three of those guys get dealt for something really good.  I agree, right now I don't think any big-time needle-movers are coming via UFA.  As much as I would welcome Hamilton into the fold, I don't kid myself that he's ever coming here...especially since I don't even think Fitz will throw his hat into the ring.  

[SterioDesign]

the thing with trades is that we didnt have anything of value to trade until very recently. it takes times but we need to remember we basically built this team from almost nothing. It was going to take time to draft players that are capable enough that we have assets to spare. So obviously we had to go the low risk high rewards path for all those years. doesnt really panned out much but that was literally our only option

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

We’ve been saying this verbatim for fvcking YEARS. Enough. THIS off-season I want tangible fvcking improvement. Not next. Not in two years. NOW.

we've had that. If you can't appreciate and realize that, thats on you and nobody else

[MadDog2020]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

we've had that. If you can't appreciate and realize that, thats on you and nobody else

I want improvement on the improvement. Fitz needs to sack up and make a big move this off-season. Period.

Edited June 11, 2021 by MadDog2020

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

We’ve been saying this verbatim for fvcking YEARS. Enough. THIS off-season I want tangible fvcking improvement. Not next. Not in two years. NOW.

I'm with you...to be clear, I'm not saying I'm super-enthusiastic about waiting...I just feel strongly that that's the Devils' plan, and SD has a point, in that it was going to take time to build up enough young assets that can either succeed here, or be dealt for another need.  I'm not quite sure that they have enough to work with yet...but it does feel like they're pretty close now.

The tangible improvement might very well come from a full healthy season of Nico, Jack taking more steps forward, etc.  I readily admit, if I don't see that (and others) improving next year, I'm going to start to wonder about this core.  

Edited June 11, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

We’ve been saying this verbatim for fvcking YEARS. Enough. THIS off-season I want tangible fvcking improvement. Not next. Not in two years. NOW.

I couldn't agree more. I am not expecting us to be "fixed" next season, but do something toward it. We basically hit reset last season, you can say all you want that the rebuild started 5 years ago or whatever, its just simply not the case. We made moves toward rebuilding (Hall, Vatanen) that wound up not being part of the puzzle, but rather means towards more rebuilding in that they brought back assets. 

I do not believe we are going to build a championship caliber team on drafting alone. Trades are going to have to be made, and pieces will have to be brought here and kept long term, not traded for more spare parts. I think if you get that accomplished, maybe you can make NJ look a little more attractive to free agents and you can get another start caliber guy or two.

And then we'll be on our way toward something. Just drafting guys, which you do every year as a matter of right, isn't "rebuilding" if you ask me, its just restocking. 

[SterioDesign]

15 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I want improvement on the improvement. Fitz needs to sack up and make a big move this off-season. Period.

 

13 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm with you...to be clear, I'm not saying I'm super-enthusiastic about waiting...I just feel strongly that that's the Devils' plan, and SD has a point, in that it was going to take time to build up enough young assets that can either succeed here, or be dealt for another need.  I'm not quite sure that they have enough to work with yet...but it does feel like they're pretty close now.

The tangible improvement might very well come from a full healthy season of Nico, Jack taking more steps forward, etc.  I readily admit, if I don't see that (and others) improving next year, I'm going to start to wonder about this core.  

we've already seen a ton of improvement. So i just don't understand the "we've seen nothing crowd"

Hell we got Sharangovich that we drafted a few years ago, who was on nobody's radar, come out and have a huge impact already. We had Smith coming in showing that he's indeed an NHL player capable of at the very least top 4 minutes, we have kuokkanen that we got for nothing basically coming in having an impact in the top 6. We have McLeod and Bastian who most kind of penned as busts, coming in and showing that they'll be a solid 4th line for a long time in the NHL. We have Zacha who also took a giant step this year, Jack took a big step this year too. We're certainly going to draft someone that "should" play at least top 4 this year too.

I mean, what more do you people expect exactly coming from a team who had basically nothing just a few years ago? Honestly. I really think most people never look at the big picture here, they want results NOW and that's it. They don't take in consideration where we came from and what it was gonna take and how long it was going to take to rebuild at a realistic rate.

This year we were the team with the most points coming out of players under... 25 or something, we were the youngest team in the league, and AGAIN, we've lost SO many games by just one freagin goal. Missing our captain all season and being a super young team making mistakes. That's all VERY important context to take in consideration, we were NOT a bottom 3 team in term of potential, not at all.

Edited June 11, 2021 by SterioDesign

[mfitz804]

6 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

 

we've already seen a ton of improvement. So i just don't understand the "we've seen nothing crowd"

Hell we got Sharangovich that we drafted a few years ago, who was on nobody's radar, come out and have a huge impact already. We had Smith coming in showing that he's indeed an NHL player capable of at the very least top 4 minutes, we have kuokkanen that we got for nothing basically coming in having an impact in the top 6. We have McLeod and Bastian who most kind of penned as busts, coming in and showing that they'll be a solid 4th line for a long time in the NHL. We have Zacha who also took a giant step this year, Jack took a big step this year too. We're certainly going to draft someone that "should" play at least top 4 this year too.

I mean, what more do you people expect exactly coming from a team who had basically nothing just a few years ago? Honestly. I really think most people never look at the big picture here, they want results NOW and that's it. They don't take in consideration where we came from and what it was gonna take and how long it was going to take to rebuild at a realistic rate.

This year we were the team with the most points coming out of players under... 25 or something, we were the youngest team in the league, and AGAIN, we've lost SO many games by just one freagin goal. Missing our captain all season and being a super young team making mistakes. That's all VERY important context to take in consideration, we were NOT a bottom 3 team in term of potential, not at all.

What you are talking about is drafting well and/or getting lucky in the draft. That's something you are just supposed to do every year, whether you are the Stanley Cup Champion or last place. All that changes is your odds of getting a good player based on your pick position.

That's not a move you made to improve the state of your team, that's a compulsory selection process. You need to do more than just draft. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

 

we've already seen a ton of improvement. So i just don't understand the "we've seen nothing crowd"

Hell we got Sharangovich that we drafted a few years ago, who was on nobody's radar, come out and have a huge impact already. We had Smith coming in showing that he's indeed an NHL player capable of at the very least top 4 minutes, we have kuokkanen that we got for nothing basically coming in having an impact in the top 6. We have McLeod and Bastian who most kind of penned as busts, coming in and showing that they'll be a solid 4th line for a long time in the NHL. We have Zacha who also took a giant step this year, Jack took a big step this year too.

I mean, what more do you people expect exactly coming from a team who had basically nothing just a few years ago? Honestly. I really think most people never look at the big picture here, they want results NOW and that's it. They don't take in consideration where we came from and what it was gonna take and how long it was going to take to rebuild at a realistic rate.

I didn't say that we haven't seen any improvement at all, and NOWHERE did I say "we've seen nothing".  I was replying to MD2020 about what tangible improvements he might see with respect to next season...I do think it will come with young players continuing to develop and improve, like we saw with a number of them last season.   

The young talent pool is obviously much better than what was in house several years ago, with some of those players already having improved at the NHL level...that hasn't translated to good winning%s just yet, but yeah, obviously reason for hope.  

Stop being so eager to lump everyone who doesn't initially *appear* to see everything exactly as you do into some group of Veruca Salt-ish dummies who just want everything to happen now no matter what, with you presenting yourself as the guy who's somehow so much smarter and more reasonable than everyone else.  People here have been reasonably patient, and there's a ton of money to spend...I can see why some might want to think things could be moved along a little more quickly.  Like I said, I can wait another year for some more kids to either improve and/or stake their claim to spots on the team, and for others to improve their trade value.  Not sure how much longer we're supposed to wait after that...at some point, once you've accrued enough youth and have cap space to spare, it's time to make bigger moves...or at the very least, show that you're willing to be aggressive in trying.   

[SterioDesign]

3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

What you are talking about is drafting well and/or getting lucky in the draft. That's something you are just supposed to do every year, whether you are the Stanley Cup Champion or last place. All that changes is your odds of getting a good player based on your pick position.

That's not a move you made to improve the state of your team, that's a compulsory selection process. You need to do more than just draft. 

That's part of it. But if you want to rebuild you have to start with that.

That's the point of signing a 28 years old in his prime when 75% of your team is not "ready" yet. You're just going to waste those prime years for nothing and that player was just another patchwork that led to nothing other than filling a gap and not getting us further.

We're juuuuust getting to the point where our young guys should be able to bring in enough that we could mix it with a good mix of ufas in their prime and veterans, so that you actually have a chance. 

There's a huge difference between, actually making moves that can approve your team in order to achieve it's goal. And just making moves to make moves to get a little better now so that people feel better and feel like something is done.

Again, we're not talking about a team like the Rangers who decided to rebuild off of maybe half their roster to start over. We're a team who almost started from nothing and with nothing other than the draft to get better.

[SterioDesign]

5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I didn't say that we haven't seen any improvement at all, and NOWHERE did I say "we've seen nothing".  I was replying to MD2020 about what tangible improvements he might see with respect to next season...I do think it will come with young players continuing to develop and improve, like we saw with a number of them last season.   

The young talent pool is obviously much better than what was in house several years ago, with some of those players already having improved at the NHL level...that hasn't translated to good winning%s just yet, but yeah, obviously reason for hope.  

Stop being so eager to lump everyone who doesn't initially *appear* to see everything exactly as you do into some group of Veruca Salt-ish dummies who just want everything to happen now no matter what, with you presenting yourself as the guy who's somehow so much smarter and more reasonable than everyone else.  People here have been reasonably patient, and there's a ton of money to spend...I can see why some might want to think things could be moved along a little more quickly.  Like I said, I can wait another year for some more kids to either improve and/or stake their claim to spots on the team, and for others to improve their trade value.  Not sure how much longer we're supposed to wait after that...at some point, once you've accrued enough youth and have cap space to spare, it's time to make bigger moves...or at the very least, show that you're willing to be aggressive in trying.   

hey lollipop muffin, where exactly did i say that you said that? Maybe stop being so eager to take things personal? I was adding to your post and also replying to MD2020. If you check, i quoted him directly.

And as i said many times before, i dont claim to be smarter than anyone here. But the hole we're in right now is what all of you guys was going to end up with with what you wanted the team to do back then and supported. So to hear so many being angry about the situation is just like "well what did you expect?"

Edited June 11, 2021 by SterioDesign

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

hey lollipop muffin, where exactly did i say that you said that? Maybe stop being so eager to take things personal? I was adding to your post and also replying to MD2020.

 

You quote me and MD2020 and post "What do you people expect?"  Why wouldn't I think that what you posted wouldn't be directed to us?  

[SterioDesign]

4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

You quote me and MD2020 and post "What do you people expect?"  Why wouldn't I think that what you posted wouldn't be directed to us?  

it was directed to him for sure. Which is why i said you people, cause he's not alone thinking that here

I mean it should have been obvious when the things you thought i was saying were not things you said at all? I didnt say anything about you and added to your point. Calm down

Edited June 11, 2021 by SterioDesign

[Devil Dan 56]

As celebrated as Shero is, I think he clearly misjudged this rebuild. You don't trade assets to acquire Palmieri, Hall, Vats, Mueller, Johansson, Subban etc if you expect to still be picking in the top 5 for the next half decade when you could have just signed plugs. We still would  have finished bottom 5 every year without those guys. 

I trust the scouts and drafting a lot more these days, but our only overall improvement is literally "we drafted a bunch of guys and got slapped around in the playoffs once"

[MadDog2020]

THIS is the type of move Fitz should be looking at: https://www.si.com/hockey/news/where-could-vince-dunn-end-up-this-summer?fbclid=IwAR3tjfldNHo27b_rROhw4U7nrzhcz58bVjLkAW89gILWcSKk3sW_FdGxUN8