The 2021 Offseason Thread

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

7/23/2025

Save the date.

That will be 10 years exactly since Lou resigned and left the Devils, to become the Leafs' GM.

Maybe that's when the rehashing/jabbing ends.  

 

Anyway, on the Tarasenko front, Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports that there doesn't seem to be much interest in Tarasenko at all...interesting to hear what a local beat writer has to say about him.  He brings up things we probably haven't given much thought to...like how meh he was at the Worlds (and how that might be further weakening whatever market there is for Tarasenko):

All quiet on Tarasenko front as Armstrong finishes off roster | St. Louis Blues | stltoday.com

 

I'm guessing Fitz has a price in mind for Tarasenko that's pretty low, and he's simply not willing to budge on it.  I'm OK with that.

So am I.  Tarasenko has Cammalleri 2.0 written all over him but with an even higher cap hit.  For a guy who has missed about 60-70% of possible GP in the past 2 seasons, that is a big gamble for whomever acquires him.

[Lateralous]

2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

So am I.  Tarasenko has Cammalleri 2.0 written all over him but with an even higher cap hit.  For a guy who has missed about 60-70% of possible GP in the past 2 seasons, that is a big gamble for whomever acquires him.

Same here.   Hopefully he’s just treating it as a luxury if he can get him.   St Louis doesn’t have terrible cap problems so maybe just Andres Johnsson and a conditional pick if he hits some relatively high threshold for goals.   

    

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

There so many ways to look at this, it really depends on what people want.

What are the pros of Tarasenko coming here.

- Gives Nico or Jack a sniper on their wing. Boosting their confidence and value. 

- Push down guys like Johnsson that shouldn't play as many minutes.

- Might give us a few extra wins through the season IF he stays healthy and produce.

- Won't impact our cap negatively

Now the cons:

- We'd be giving up assets for him. 

- He might get injured again.

- He might not be able to play his game like he use to and suck.

- His cap hit could make it possible to trade away Subban and still hit the cap ceiling

 

So with that said. I think it's fair to assume we're not going to win the cup in the next 2 seasons. So with that in mind, would this move have a positive impact? I guess it truly depends on what we want out of it and what are the assets going the other way. Also - If he actually does well enough for 2 years and then leave... depending on where people stand on "having to finish higher in the standings to show progress" or "seeing progress outside of standings and getting better draft picks" 

The idea is that even if for whatever the reason he wound up playing well for his time here and then leaving for nothing, hopefully you have a kid behind him that's not far away from being able to take his place (this scenario seems like the least likely to me though...see below)...at least then, Tarasenko filled a temporary need, and you can keep the progress train moving without Tarasenko's leaving hurting you.  And of course the idea is that you didn't give up anything of real significance to get him, which is why I get the impression more and more that Fitz isn't terribly bullish on the idea of acquiring him until the price reaches the "Aw fvck it, why not?" level.  

I went over it elsewhere, but here's the possible scenarios, really:

- He either sucks or is constantly hurt (think he misses more than half of the Devils' games).  It's obvious that you didn't get much for your cap hit if this happens, but at least that won't hurt the Devils much the next two years.

- He's relatively productive, but misses considerable time (think 15-25 games per year...Mike Cammalleri)

- He's able to stay in the lineup for a while but is a shadow of himself...think 70+ games played but around 20 G and 40 points (something like  a better version of LA Kings Kovy)...not a total lost cause, just far from what you were hoping for

- He regains 80-100% of his old form

Who knows, but I'm guessing it's going to be the second or third one.  If anything, I'm mildly intrigued by the idea of bringing him in without sending much the other way (if the Blues become that desperate to move him, regardless of the return), then finding a way to sell high when teams who don't want two years of his cap hit are willing to take whatever's left at the 2022 or 2023 deadline...obviously, he may not do enough to get much more back than it might take to get him.  But I like that Fitz, despite clearly having the cap room to take a risk, isn't jumping right into this.  If this is ever happening, it's going to be 100% on Fitz's terms...which means he'd rather not acquire a maybe "Top 6" forward with serious question marks, just to do something more.  Like I said, if the price never meets what Fitz is willing to pay, I'm fine with him passing.      

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

16 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

Same here.   Hopefully he’s just treating it as a luxury if he can get him.   St Louis doesn’t have terrible cap problems so maybe just Andres Johnsson and a conditional pick if he hits some relatively high threshold for goals.   

    

I think that's exactly how Fitz sees it.  Wanna a 3rd, a 5th, and some decent young warm body with possible mild upside who doesn't fit into my plans?  I'll take on all of your hit?  We can talk.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

24 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

So am I.  Tarasenko has Cammalleri 2.0 written all over him but with an even higher cap hit.  For a guy who has missed about 60-70% of possible GP in the past 2 seasons, that is a big gamble for whomever acquires him.

It's a little different because Cammalleri was just a guy who was brittle, had a long history of that, and it figured to get worse as he aged (I hated that signing the second it was announced).  Tarasenko didn't really start missing many games until two seasons ago...the big question is how the hell is his shoulder?  Even if he can play with it, how WELL can he play now?  That's what I'm curious to see...is he now able to stay in the lineup, but not nearly as productive?  

[Guadana]

3 hours ago, Crisis said:

I caught a few (parts of maybe 3) Bingo games at the end of the season when Holtz was playing with Tyce and.. sh!t, I can't think of who their center was but I'm sure someone here can chime in, but they were fun to watch.  Looking at Tyce and Holtz's stat line, they are a bit underwhelming for what I thought I saw, but I guess it was only about 10 games they played together, so maybe they can build on that.  Or maybe it's just a product of playing against only 3 teams that happened to be the top of the league.

Edit: Or maybe they just suck.

They should not play in the same line. This is a crime. Well, we should admit that our opponents were much more experienced, and there were no good centers in bing last season. Street had an injury and a covid. The whole season is a complete mess.

[SterioDesign]

31 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's a little different because Cammalleri was just a guy who was brittle, had a long history of that, and it figured to get worse as he aged (I hated that signing the second it was announced).  Tarasenko didn't really start missing many games until two seasons ago...the big question is how the hell is his shoulder?  Even if he can play with it, how WELL can he play now?  That's what I'm curious to see...is he now able to stay in the lineup, but not nearly as productive?  

Yeah cause if you watch the video of the last time his shoulder dislocated. It reaaaaally wasn't much, the dman was putting pressure on him on a rush and thats it. Would he be able to get a full hit in the boards or wtv?

Then if you're tarasenko? how confident are you out there and will it affect your style of play if you're always worried your shoulder my pop out?

[SterioDesign]

9 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I see stuff like this and I wonder if you guys have any fvcking clue who Vladimir Tarasenko is. The to-be 33 year old UFA Cammalleri had two seasons in his entire career with over 30 goals. Tarasenko had five consecutive 30+ goal seasons in his last five healthy years.  Tarasenko will still only be 29 when the season starts. 

The only reason the asking price for Tarasenko isn't 4 first round picks is because of the injuries. The Devils aren't possibly acquiring in spite of those, they're possibly acquiring him because of those. The only reason "uhh idk Boqvist and a 2nd?" isn't laugh-out-loud funny is because it's a huge risk. And that's a risk the Devils should absolutely take, considering the insane amount of talent that can be acquired for cheap if he's healthy. 

Tarasenko currently scores goals at a .42g/game pace. That's Kovalchuk-levels of scoring. That's "one of the best scorers in the national hockey league" scoring. That's a risk well worth taking for only two years.

 

 

Except if Fitz sees our window to have a run at the cup is in say 3-5 years. Why trade assets that would be in their prime in those 3-5 years for a guy that may not be there anymore and not in his prime then? All of that to fill a gap. That's the question. Even if Tarasenko performs in these 2 years... in the big scheme, is it worth what we'd be trading.

And all that is not even taking in consideration the very high risk of injuries.

And to be clear i'm more leaning on trying to get him if the price is right than not. BUT if things go bad, that's really on us cause all the indications were on this move being very risky

Edited August 2, 2021 by SterioDesign

[DevsMan84]

7 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I see stuff like this and I wonder if you guys have any fvcking clue who Vladimir Tarasenko is. Comparing him to Mike Cammalleri is head-spinning. The to-be 33 year old UFA Cammalleri had two seasons in his entire career with over 30 goals. Tarasenko had five consecutive 30+ goal seasons in his last five healthy years.  Tarasenko will still only be 29 when the season starts. Tarasenko would never play a single game for the Devils older than Cammalleri's *first* year of his contract unless he was re-signed.

The only reason the asking price for Tarasenko isn't 4 first round picks is because of the injuries. The Devils aren't possibly acquiring in spite of those, they're possibly acquiring him because of those. The only reason "uhh idk Boqvist and a 2nd?" isn't laugh-out-loud funny is because it's a huge risk. And that's a risk the Devils should absolutely take, considering the insane amount of talent that can be acquired for cheap if he's healthy. 

Tarasenko currently scores goals at a .42g/game pace. That's Kovalchuk-levels of scoring. That's "one of the best scorers in the national hockey league" scoring. That's a risk well worth taking for only two years.

 

 

"last five healthy years" is the key part of your post.  He has missed about 70% of his possible games played over the past 2 seasons and there are still concerns about his shoulder.

Maybe Cammalleri is a bad comparison.  Thinking a little more about it, I think Bure when the Rangers acquired him back in 2002 is probably better.  He didn't cost a lot (spare parts and picks) but his knee injuries eventually did him in and he played a total of 51 games over 1.25 seasons before retiring.  With Tarasenko, I am not concerned about what we may give up considering his price seems to be at an all-time low, but if the deal falls through and he manages to only play partial seasons from here on out and/or at a diminished capacity with another team I won't exactly be upset

[Nicomo]

3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

For sure, i see stuff posted about him in hear that is also irritating me. That's what internet forums are.

The difference is if someone post something i don't agree with on a forum. I'll just either stay silent or engage to give my point of view on why i don't agree. I don't do the whole gatekeeping thing where people are not allowed to have certain opinions and express themselves. 

This again? Look, “express yourself” all you want, but just don’t be surprised that a lot of people find it annoying AF when you’re such a broken record. And btw you chose to respond to my post about you talking sh!t about Lou. So I don’t really see much of this “staying silent” you’re claiming you do. 

[SterioDesign]

10 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

This again? Look, “express yourself” all you want, but just don’t be surprised that a lot of people find it annoying AF when you’re such a broken record. And btw you chose to respond to my post about you talking sh!t about Lou. So I don’t really see much of this “staying silent” you’re claiming you do. 

You're literally replying to the SAME post you already replied to. There's no "this again" lol you're just getting upset at the same post

Edited August 2, 2021 by SterioDesign

[RunninWithTheDevil]

[Nicomo]

10 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

You're literally replying to the SAME post you already replied to. There's no "this again" lol you're just getting upset at the same post

No idea how that happened. Could have sworn it was a new post. My apologies. 

[NJDevils1214]

10 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

No idea how that happened. Could have sworn it was a new post. My apologies. 

He isn't using darkmode....WHAT?!

[SterioDesign]

Well i guess Murray is going to Colorado

[mfitz804]

2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well i guess Murray is going to Colorado

Did we need him? Who does this put into the lineup?

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Another low risk move that did not pay off. Add it to the pile. 

 

 

[SterioDesign]

55 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

He isn't using darkmode....WHAT?!

oh sh!t i didn't realize that was an option. 

That being my eyes are bleeding trying to read this gray text on top of a red background. I'm not a neurosurgeon but it should be something with a bit more contrast than that

[SterioDesign]

5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Did we need him? Who does this put into the lineup?

it's making Siegenthaler's mission to make the roster a whole lot easier. He'll be fighting against Bahl now vs Murray 

good for Murray though. Realistically, he was just going to be a patching job here until Luke or Bahl make the team for good. And now he'll be playing on a contender

Edited August 2, 2021 by SterioDesign

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

once the devils acquired Hamilton and Graves they really had no room for him.

not sure what “didn’t pan out”, though? he was signed for 1 year, played perfectly acceptably during that year and then wasn’t retained. not every move has to be “franchise cornerstone defining move!!!!!”. 

Agree, add to that nobody really expected anything from Murray other than filling a roster spot for last season. He was traded for a 5th round pick. 

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

1 minute ago, MB3 said:

once the devils acquired Hamilton and Graves they really had no room for him.

not sure what “didn’t pan out”, though? he was signed for 1 year, played perfectly acceptably during that year and then wasn’t retained. not every move has to be “franchise cornerstone defining move!!!!!”. 

The hope with these moves is you give up not a lot and get a long term serviceable player who might get you an asset back down the line. Of course no one was expecting a franchise cornerstone. 

But do you really think when Fitz brought him in it was in the hope that he would only last a year before we lost him for nothing? 

And just to be clear I still would have made the move, but it would be nice if one of these trades actually yeilded a reward. Already lining up Johnsson for the next one to the pile. 

 

[NJDevils1214]

6 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

The hope with these moves is you give up not a lot and get a long term serviceable player who might get you an asset back down the line. Of course no one was expecting a franchise cornerstone. 

But do you really think when Fitz brought him in it was in the hope that he would only last a year before we lost him for nothing? 

And just to be clear I still would have made the move, but it would be nice if one of these trades actually yeilded a reward. Already lining up Johnsson for the next one to the pile. 

 

He was here for a year and played fine. Without him last year probably ends up being worse. I agree with others here, you can't trade for a guy with 1yr left then base the success purely on if they stay. Fitz probably could have kept him if he wanted. It doesn't sound like he was a priority. 

[mfitz804]

Also, we tried to move him at the deadline and Fitz couldn’t find what he wanted in return. Again, we got him for a 5th, what exactly did we miss out on by not trading him?

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Also, we tried to move him at the deadline and Fitz couldn’t find what he wanted in return. Again, we got him for a 5th, what exactly did we miss out on by not trading him?

we missed out on Nikolai Makarov who was picked with the draft pick. Now we wait if he turns into the next Lidstrom. 

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

we missed out on Nikolai Makarov who was picked with the draft pick. Now we wait if he turns into the next Lidstrom. 

No, that’s what we missed out on by trading FOR him. That’s not the pick we would have gotten back.