The 2021 Offseason Thread

[DevsMan84]

7 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Honestly man, as far as this goes...what are you trying to say?  I think people here have made fair and valid points, re:  the Hischier pick; Makar (who may be the best the player of the 2017 Top 5 picks, still early) was not in the conversation to be the #1 overall pick in just about every circle.  The only two players who truly were...you know who they are.  No one was shocked when they were selected 1-2...the only doubt was who was going first and who was going second.  No one was saying "How was Makar not taken earlier than fourth?" or "Why wasn't he in the conversation to be the first overall?"  As far as the latter goes, all we have is some source who said that Shero might have been considering the idea...do we really know if that's valid?  

What are you getting on the Devils' scouting for, in this particular instance?  For not having a crystal ball and knowing that the guy that three teams passed on and was NEVER projected to go higher than he did would wind up potentially being the best of the lot?  The Devils have had an offseason that I think many of us are pretty happy with, and the kids are coming in with another year of experience...to each their own, but I really feel like this is more of a time for optimism, to see if Nico and Jack give us a better indication of what their (hopefully higher) ceilings really are, to see what Hamilton and Graves bring to the D-Corp, etc.  The last several seasons have largely not been fun, but we've already been over the history of why:  Lou won't blow things up and leaves Shero a bare cupboard, Shero does try to move things along with very limited resources but doesn't hit on enough of his moves, and now Fitz looks like he's at least primed (partly from having been a good seller) to get over the hump and at least have the Devils becoming a playoff contender in the near future...no guarantees, but it does feel like they're close to turning a corner.

I guess I'm not really understanding where this is all coming from.  Can we at least see how this season (which is clearly different than some recent ones, given the acquisitions) plays out?  If Hischier winds up being a very significant factor in helping the Devils in his own way in the years to come, is it really going to matter THAT much that a guy who wasn't supposed to be picked of Nico to begin with winds up being better than him?          

Going back a few pages, this essentially started with the Couturier signing and a poster saying he was overpaid.  I made the comparison to his contract to Nico saying that Couturier has accomplished more to earn his while Nico's contract is based on a bunch of hopes.  Of course the wagons circled around Nico as they do with certain players here and it got worse when I pointed out that Nico was only the 4th best out of the top 5 in his draft class.

We are now in our what, 3rd rebuild in the past decade.  We are placing our bets on a lot of unproven kids and apparently a lot of posters crystal balls here are better than mine in predicting they will all pan out.  I get the sense of optimism, but when I keep seeing about how we won the offseason (didn't we "win" it back in 2019?) and how Sharangovich is primed for 30-40 goals this season (well maybe not on here, but there has been those claims on Reddit), sorry if I find myself being cynical.

I will still maintain that the Devils drafting has not been as good as a lot of people make it out to be.  I would still take many teams drafting over ours over the past 6-7 seasons.  If the bar is lowered enough to say that what counts as a success is that the player ends up being a marginal NHL player, then I guess we did well.  However, I would rather hit on 1-2 star players than a dozen marginal NHL players.

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

you havent shown that you understood anything anyone in here has been saying if you keep repeating that 4th best out of 5 sh!t. You truly have to be trolling or straight up mentally challenged at this point if you truly believe what you're saying.

You absolutely do not understand the very simple principle of hindsight 20/20, thats so so clear

This is coming from a guy who tries to inject his own Lou-bashing every chance he can get.  Good grief.

[SterioDesign]

23 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

This is coming from a guy who tries to inject his own Lou-bashing every chance he can get.  Good grief.

Yeah keep deflecting pal.

Let's actually address that.

You know the difference with the Lou thing and your non-sense? I was always judging his decisions right on the spot based on all known information at that time, explaining why i disagreed, saying that it would/could go very wrong and that it was a bad decisions. And many times they did go wrong. Unlike you here, I was not looking at results that went bad and then blaming him saying he should have known better. That's hindsight 2020, something you very clearly do not understand.

If that was the case i'd be blaming him for getting Schneider which ultimately fvcked us more than it helped us. But no, i understand hindsight 2020 so thats really not on him, getting Schneider at the time was actually a good decision based on all the information he had at that time.

You want another example? I'm also not blindly defending our drafting. When we picked Holtz i was really disappointed, i did a LOT of research on all the prospects available in our range and the player i wanted the most (Rossi) was available and Holtz was literally the last one on my list. And we picked him. I commented on the situation then, it's on record. I may have been right or wrong, i guess we'll see in the future. So at the very least if Rossi becomes a star and way better than Holtz, well at least i'd have some sort of justification. But you don't, you certainly werent sh!tting on the pick when we picked Hischer saying we should have got Makar instead. 

[mfitz804]

This thread has to be a record for the longest argument not involving me. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Going back a few pages, this essentially started with the Couturier signing and a poster saying he was overpaid.  I made the comparison to his contract to Nico saying that Couturier has accomplished more to earn his while Nico's contract is based on a bunch of hopes.  Of course the wagons circled around Nico as they do with certain players here and it got worse when I pointed out that Nico was only the 4th best out of the top 5 in his draft class.

We are now in our what, 3rd rebuild in the past decade.  We are placing our bets on a lot of unproven kids and apparently a lot of posters crystal balls here are better than mine in predicting they will all pan out.  I get the sense of optimism, but when I keep seeing about how we won the offseason (didn't we "win" it back in 2019?) and how Sharangovich is primed for 30-40 goals this season (well maybe not on here, but there has been those claims on Reddit), sorry if I find myself being cynical.

I will still maintain that the Devils drafting has not been as good as a lot of people make it out to be.  I would still take many teams drafting over ours over the past 6-7 seasons.  If the bar is lowered enough to say that what counts as a success is that the player ends up being a marginal NHL player, then I guess we did well.  However, I would rather hit on 1-2 star players than a dozen marginal NHL players.

In fairness, I think most fans understand that Nico has to stay healthy, put up points, and find consistency.  After a solid first year, we know what the last three have been:  hints of improving, injuries, and downturns.  But Nico is likable and is "ours" and as a 1OA, I get that fans will afford him more patience than they might with other players.  I really want to see him succeed myself (what Devil fan doesn't, really?).  

I wouldn't say the Devils "won" it back in 2019, as much as they did what Shero was often doing:  attempting to improve his team with limited trade capital to offer...and being that we know that bigger-name UFAs weren't coming here, that meant acquiring "Ifs with potential upside"...guys like PK (who's previously been successful but was coming off a meh year, that had gotten worse as that season had gone on), Gusev (who had never played in a single minute in the NHL), Simmonds (who wasn't that far removed from productive seasons)...and then hoping Schneider would find his game again (nope) and Hughes would be one of those 1OAs who slide right into the league and find a way to produce instantly.  As we know, none of those moves worked out as well as hoped for in 2019-20, for various reasons.  They were an intriguing team going in, based on the upside, but one that could struggle if not enough went right.  And not enough did.

I count two rebuilds myself...Lou never attempted one on his watch.  Shero started one and tried to move it along with a number of deals (Palms, Hall, etc), but as we know, many of them didn't pan out, and given the dearth of youth in the system at the time, he was going to have to hit on nearly all of those moves to keep things moving.  I feel like the second one officially started with Hall being dealt, and is ongoing.

I think Fitz made more definitive moves this offseason, compared to the ones made in 2019...I feel like you know what you're getting with Hamilton and Graves...look, ANY big-money UFA signing can go wrong...we've seen it happen in every sport...signings that make absolute perfect since, for a player in his prime, who suddenly appears to become a different (and worse) version of the guy you thought you were getting.  I also like that we're not counting on an 18-year-old Hughes to come right in and go right into beast mode...he's now 20 and has some experience.  Hischier now also has some time under his belt...they should be better than they've been to date.  We'll see about a guy like Sharangovich...but like I've said before, it does feel like there's a hell of a lot more to hope for out of them than guys like Boucher, Blandisi, Anderson, etc.

To be clear, no guarantees...if this team isn't taking steps forward this year, if Nico is missing too many games to injury and/or not being productive enough, and if Jack gets off to another quick start and sees his production drop off (even if it's not ALL on him)...yeah, I'm going to start to wonder a little about the kids who are supposed to be the cornerstones of this whole thing.  Guess you can add Blackwood to that mix too...even if he's not a 50+ start-type, can he handle 45 or so games and be consistent?  There's questions to be answered still, but it feels like there's enough pieces here to start to answer them with real clarity...and to hope for better things.    

Edited September 3, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Devil Dan 56]

https://www.nhl.com/devils/news/prospects-challenge-rookie-tournament-devils-buffalo/c-326074006?fbclid=IwAR1A37421YyKS67vrbQ0u55R2meKMdu64CShqkM-x0bz44rEWIfpJJTGtW0

 

For anyone who is hockey starved, we can have our first little taste Sept 17 assuming there will be some sort of  streaming option from the  prospect tournament in Buffalo. 

[MadDog2020]

[Devil Dan 56]

26 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Not much makes me feel older than seeing how old Brodeurs kids are. I watched that guys whole career and now his kids are adults. 

[MadDog2020]

3 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Not much makes me feel older than seeing how old Brodeurs kids are. I watched that guys whole career and now his kids are adults. 

That makes two of us lol

[NJDevils1214]

2 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Not much makes me feel older than seeing how old Brodeurs kids are. I watched that guys whole career and now his kids are adults. 

This same exact realization happened to me yesterday with respect to a family friend. The little kids I used to see on Xmas playing with noisy toys and jumping around the living room every year at the party are suddenly young men and women. Only 1 is still in high school. I think not having gotten together because of Covid made the jump seem even bigger. 

I'm only in my early 30s but I'm starting to really see the changes around me that remind me I'm getting to the point where I'm young but not....that young anymore.

[mfitz804]

Guys who I watched as rookies are in the hall of fame and their sons are playing in the NHL. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Not much makes me feel older than seeing how old Brodeurs kids are. I watched that guys whole career and now his kids are adults. 

I remember seeing newborn pictures of Anthony during the 1995 playoffs…that newborn is now 26 years old.  And Marty wasn’t much younger than me when he made his debut…he was 19, and I was 21.  My next “fresh decade” birthday will be 60 (in less than nine years).  All of this blows my mind…my brother’s two oldest kids are now both legal adults…the oldest will be able to buy booze this January.  I have no idea how time passes this fast, but compared to when I was young, a week feels like one long day, a weekend feels like a half-day, a month feels like a week, and a year feels like a long month.  

[MadDog2020]

@mfitz804

[mfitz804]

53 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

@mfitz804

I have my jersey all ready. 

[NJDfan1711]

On 9/4/2021 at 11:14 AM, MadDog2020 said:

That makes two of us lol

Add me to that list.  I can remember when he got their initials on the back of his helmet...J and A.  He added the others after, can't remember them, but J and A stand out to me jn the early/mid 90s  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

21 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Add me to that list.  I can remember when he got their initials on the back of his helmet...J and A.  He added the others after, can't remember them, but J and A stand out to me jn the early/mid 90s  

Weren’t J and W added at the same time?  Jeremy and William were twins.

[Guadana]

 

How bad Subban is as defenseman. Look at him. Oh, no. He was pretty good. Wow. No way. Did anyone surprise? Nope.
Hope we will re-sign him for reasonable deal next summer. We dont have no good right defensemen in the system. Only McCarthy and he is nowhere close to have confidence in him.
 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Guadana

[RunninWithTheDevil]

Dougie is here

 

 

 

[MadDog2020]

Another fun discussion: https://www.si.com/hockey/news/1991-nhl-draft-retrospective-cmon-lets-make-a-deal?fbclid=IwAR2JNOlmQH7qeQGqbKfktAxMDxtTxxeiyw-cpP9rr62JYVKu_BGFpv9Tr5MIn one of the stronger pack-ages of any team, New Jersey offered Sean Burke, Stephane Richer, Claude Lemieux, prospect Scott Niedermayer, cash and draft picks. But talks between the Devils and the Nordiques never went anywhere. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by MadDog2020

[DevsMan84]

5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Another fun discussion: https://www.si.com/hockey/news/1991-nhl-draft-retrospective-cmon-lets-make-a-deal?fbclid=IwAR2JNOlmQH7qeQGqbKfktAxMDxtTxxeiyw-cpP9rr62JYVKu_BGFpv9Tr5MIn one of the stronger pack-ages of any team, New Jersey offered Sean Burke, Stephane Richer, Claude Lemieux, prospect Scott Niedermayer, cash and draft picks. But talks between the Devils and the Nordiques never went anywhere. 

IIRC, Neil Smith talked about that trade at the Meigray expo a couple years back.  I believe he said that the ruling came more down to that Nordiques preferred the Flyers offer more than the Rangers simply because there were more cash involved ($15M vs $12M) rather than the actual timing of when the trades went through.

I really wish I could remember what exactly he said.  I wish I would have recorded it as he was far more open and frank that I expected.

[Crisis]

2 hours ago, Guadana said:

 

How bad Subban is as defenseman. Look at him. Oh, no. He was pretty good. Wow. No way. Did anyone surprise? Nope.
Hope we will re-sign him for reasonable deal next summer. We dont have no good right defensemen in the system. Only McCarthy and he is nowhere close to have confidence in him.
 

Ha I was just looking at these.  And to support your point, it's great to not see PK on this top list.  Which is impressive for how much ice time he has logged and how often he passes.

And here is a fun one.  Check out the company.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Crisis

[mfitz804]

No Devils on that turnover list…

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Not that one statistic does it for me, but it's loooooooooong overdue that some of you fvckers put respect on Damon Severson's name. All he does is stay healthy, eat top-line minutes and look pretty darned good in the process. Some of you act like he's a traffic cone. 

You forgot about his scoring touch. 

 

 

[Crisis]

21 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

No Devils on that turnover list…

Might be because they never have the puck ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[pumpkin cutter]

Dougie lookin good in our jersey. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Another fun discussion: https://www.si.com/hockey/news/1991-nhl-draft-retrospective-cmon-lets-make-a-deal?fbclid=IwAR2JNOlmQH7qeQGqbKfktAxMDxtTxxeiyw-cpP9rr62JYVKu_BGFpv9Tr5MIn one of the stronger pack-ages of any team, New Jersey offered Sean Burke, Stephane Richer, Claude Lemieux, prospect Scott Niedermayer, cash and draft picks. But talks between the Devils and the Nordiques never went anywhere. 

I knew the Devils had an offer on the table, but never knew exactly what it was.  Glad it never went anywhere…think about how important Richer and Lemieux were to Cup #1…and Niedermayer to all three of them.