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The 2021 Offseason Thread


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34 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Nah, I actually agree with you that Lou was a disaster in the later years. Just kind of feels like what’s the point of constantly rehashing it. 

 

15 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Don’t you think there’s a discernible difference between saying “I hate the music that Billy Joe Armstrong has been putting out there lately for Green Day” and “I will take any and every opportunity even in unrelated topics to bash Billy Joe Armstrong.”?

We all hate what Lou did his last few years here. We all recognize how bare he left the cupboard by striving to ice mediocre teams. But you’re on a Devils fan forum throwing weekly temper tantrums about the sole reason this franchise exists.

And don’t mistake it for a goddamned second: the Devils don’t exist today without Lou. 

Imagine you're going on a long road planned vacations with your brother. Who for wtv reasons insists to take his old car. You don't agree cause the car showed a bunch of times that it needs repairs constantly and lots of red flags. So you strongly advice not taking that car. You argue for weeks about it and finally give up and go on that trip with that car. Now you're on a long ass highway in California in the Mojave Desert and the car inevitably breaks down. Tell me you'd just say "i told you so" once while you're walking for like days to get back to civilization lol

Even back when we were winning i kept saying Lou's way of running the team (constantly letting top players walk into free agency instead of trying to lock them up the year before/not firing Conte after years of doing a sh!tjob) was problematic and that it would inevitably run the team to the ground. Like systematically there was just no way around it. And that it would not impact the team's success to do it the normal way, it would even improved their chances to keep thing going. And i'd always get called out and crazy for daring say anything negative about him. Not a single soul agreed about what they say they are agreeing about him now) It was literally me against everyone else here. All i'd get was "SEE HIS WAYS ARE OBVIOUSLY WORKING, WE'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS NOW AND WE HAVE 3 CUPS". Well now that we've inevitably got the the point i was saying it would lead to (literally everything went exactly the way anyone willing to see it would predict). You can be sure decades of that bitterness and repressed i told you so's won't just go away lol And that's partially on many of you guys, sorry but. And i get why people don't want to hear about it now cause it would be admitting they were wrong.

Also some may have noticed it's just not against Lou, i said the same thing about Colombus. Who went all-in in a year where they barely made the playoffs. Traded a bunch of future assets PLUS let 2 of the best players in the league walk for nothing. And yeah, sure enough, it fvcked them up.

That's all i'll say there's no point getting into another argument about it. 

Edited by SterioDesign
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Lou is obviously not the right guy when it’s clear you need to go into a rebuild but man, can he fill out a roster.   Ironically, you know who could have really used him these last few years?   Toronto.   I don’t think he would have bit on the Tavares thing and even if he did, he definitely wouldn’t have let the kids run him over in their contract negotiations.   

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21 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

 

Imagine you're going on a long road planned vacations with your brother. Who for wtv reasons insists to take his old car. You don't agree cause the car showed a bunch of times that it needs repairs constantly and lots of red flags. So you strongly advice not taking that car. You argue for weeks about it and finally give up and go on that trip with that car. Now you're on a long ass highway in California in the Mojave Desert and the car inevitably breaks down. Tell me you'd just say "i told you so" once while you're walking for like days to get back to civilization lol

Even back when we were winning i kept saying Lou's way of running the team (constantly letting top players walk into free agency instead of trying to lock them up the year before/not firing Conte after years of doing a sh!tjob) was problematic and that it would inevitably run the team to the ground. Like systematically there was just no way around it. And that it would not impact the team's success to do it the normal way, it would even improved their chances to keep thing going. And i'd always get called out and crazy for daring say anything negative about him. Not a single soul agreed about what they say they are agreeing about him now) It was literally me against everyone else here. All i'd get was "SEE HIS WAYS ARE OBVIOUSLY WORKING, WE'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS NOW AND WE HAVE 3 CUPS". Well now that we've inevitably got the the point i was saying it would lead to (literally everything went exactly the way anyone willing to see it would predict). You can be sure decades of that bitterness and repressed i told you so's won't just go away lol And that's partially on many of you guys, sorry but. And i get why people don't want to hear about it now cause it would be admitting they were wrong.

Also some may have noticed it's just not against Lou, i said the same thing about Colombus. Who went all-in in a year where they barely made the playoffs. Traded a bunch of future assets PLUS let 2 of the best players in the league walk for nothing. And yeah, sure enough, it fvcked them up.

That's all i'll say there's no point getting into another argument about it. 

I read the first two sentences of your reply and realized I’m way too sober for this sh!t. I’ll catch you back later tonight.

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A three paragraph analogy bashing Lou followed by "I don't want to fight about it" seems disingenuous at the very least. 

Also MB3 is right. Without Lou this team is probably celebrating their 26th year in Nashville

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44 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Anyway, on the Tarasenko front, Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports that there doesn't seem to be much interest in Tarasenko at all...interesting to hear what a local beat writer has to say about him.  He brings up things we probably haven't given much thought to...like how meh he was at the Worlds (and how that might be further weakening whatever market there is for Tarasenko):

All quiet on Tarasenko front as Armstrong finishes off roster | St. Louis Blues | stltoday.com

 

It has become increasingly apparent that a trade market for Tarasenko has not materialized. That became painfully obvious 10 days ago in the expansion draft when the Seattle Kraken had their choice of defenseman Vince Dunn or Tarasenko.

They chose Dunn.

In essence, the Kraken didn’t think Tarasenko was a better asset than Dunn. A popular narrative when the Blues left Tarasenko exposed was that Seattle would simply flip the pick and trade it for assets. In the end, Seattle decided that Dunn was better than any assets they may have gotten for Tarasenko.
 
Things have reached the point where it’s become known in the league that Tarasenko has relaxed his no-trade clause completely. He’s basically willing to go anywhere in a trade.
 
If there were any options, they’re shrinking. NHL teams spent in excess of a billion dollars in total contracts during the opening days of free agency, eating into cap space and filling rosters.
 
When it came to negotiating contracts and trades in the NFL, former St. Louis Rams president Jay Zygmunt always used to say: “All it takes is one phone call.”
 
That phone call has yet to arrive at Blues headquarters.
 
The bottom line is, Tarasenko didn’t play very well last season in coming back from his third shoulder surgery in a little over three years. He said so at the end of the season; and so did coach Craig Berube. It’s now clear that his surprising appearance in the World Championship for Russia after the Blues’ season concluded was an attempt to market his services — show NHL teams he was healthy and ready to go.
 
In a watered-down field at the Worlds, Tarasenko scored a shootout winner but his overall play was so-so. Can Tarasenko return to his 30-goal form, or is what scouts saw at the Worlds what they’ll get in the future?

Perhaps a team that’s close to winning it all but needs a little more offense takes a chance on Tarasenko. The New York Islanders and Carolina Hurricanes are two teams that might fit that description, and both appear to have the cap room to fit Tarasenko’s $7.5 million.

But $7.5 million for a player who scored four regular-season goals in 24 games last season, and has a history of shoulder issues, is a tough sell. Would the Blues be willing to retain some of Tarasenko’s cap count to facilitate a trade? That doesn’t seem to be in Armstrong’s DNA.

Maybe that changes down the road. But for now, Armstrong isn’t talking about Tarasenko. In his last comments on the subject before he said he was done talking about it, Armstrong broached the possibility of Tarasenko staying in St. Louis if a trade didn’t materialize.
 
That seems far-fetched after all the complaining by the Tarasenko camp about allegedly botched surgeries and his reduced role on the ice late in the season. But we’ll see.
 
I'm guessing Fitz has a price in mind for Tarasenko that's pretty low, and he's simply not willing to budge on it.  I'm OK with that.

There so many ways to look at this, it really depends on what people want.

What are the pros of Tarasenko coming here.

- Gives Nico or Jack a sniper on their wing. Boosting their confidence and value. 

- Push down guys like Johnsson that shouldn't play as many minutes.

- Might give us a few extra wins through the season IF he stays healthy and produce.

- Won't impact our cap negatively

Now the cons:

- We'd be giving up assets for him. 

- He might get injured again.

- He might not be able to play his game like he use to and suck.

- His cap hit could make it possible to trade away Subban and still hit the cap ceiling

 

So with that said. I think it's fair to assume we're not going to win the cup in the next 2 seasons. So with that in mind, would this move have a positive impact? I guess it truly depends on what we want out of it and what are the assets going the other way. Also - If he actually does well enough for 2 years and then leave... depending on where people stand on "having to finish higher in the standings to show progress" or "seeing progress outside of standings and getting better draft picks" 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

7/23/2025

Save the date.

That will be 10 years exactly since Lou resigned and left the Devils, to become the Leafs' GM.

Maybe that's when the rehashing/jabbing ends.  

 

Anyway, on the Tarasenko front, Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post Dispatch reports that there doesn't seem to be much interest in Tarasenko at all...interesting to hear what a local beat writer has to say about him.  He brings up things we probably haven't given much thought to...like how meh he was at the Worlds (and how that might be further weakening whatever market there is for Tarasenko):

All quiet on Tarasenko front as Armstrong finishes off roster | St. Louis Blues | stltoday.com

 
I'm guessing Fitz has a price in mind for Tarasenko that's pretty low, and he's simply not willing to budge on it.  I'm OK with that.

So am I.  Tarasenko has Cammalleri 2.0 written all over him but with an even higher cap hit.  For a guy who has missed about 60-70% of possible GP in the past 2 seasons, that is a big gamble for whomever acquires him.

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2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

So am I.  Tarasenko has Cammalleri 2.0 written all over him but with an even higher cap hit.  For a guy who has missed about 60-70% of possible GP in the past 2 seasons, that is a big gamble for whomever acquires him.

Same here.   Hopefully he’s just treating it as a luxury if he can get him.   St Louis doesn’t have terrible cap problems so maybe just Andres Johnsson and a conditional pick if he hits some relatively high threshold for goals.   

    

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2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

There so many ways to look at this, it really depends on what people want.

What are the pros of Tarasenko coming here.

- Gives Nico or Jack a sniper on their wing. Boosting their confidence and value. 

- Push down guys like Johnsson that shouldn't play as many minutes.

- Might give us a few extra wins through the season IF he stays healthy and produce.

- Won't impact our cap negatively

Now the cons:

- We'd be giving up assets for him. 

- He might get injured again.

- He might not be able to play his game like he use to and suck.

- His cap hit could make it possible to trade away Subban and still hit the cap ceiling

 

So with that said. I think it's fair to assume we're not going to win the cup in the next 2 seasons. So with that in mind, would this move have a positive impact? I guess it truly depends on what we want out of it and what are the assets going the other way. Also - If he actually does well enough for 2 years and then leave... depending on where people stand on "having to finish higher in the standings to show progress" or "seeing progress outside of standings and getting better draft picks" 

The idea is that even if for whatever the reason he wound up playing well for his time here and then leaving for nothing, hopefully you have a kid behind him that's not far away from being able to take his place (this scenario seems like the least likely to me though...see below)...at least then, Tarasenko filled a temporary need, and you can keep the progress train moving without Tarasenko's leaving hurting you.  And of course the idea is that you didn't give up anything of real significance to get him, which is why I get the impression more and more that Fitz isn't terribly bullish on the idea of acquiring him until the price reaches the "Aw fvck it, why not?" level.  

I went over it elsewhere, but here's the possible scenarios, really:

- He either sucks or is constantly hurt (think he misses more than half of the Devils' games).  It's obvious that you didn't get much for your cap hit if this happens, but at least that won't hurt the Devils much the next two years.

- He's relatively productive, but misses considerable time (think 15-25 games per year...Mike Cammalleri)

- He's able to stay in the lineup for a while but is a shadow of himself...think 70+ games played but around 20 G and 40 points (something like  a better version of LA Kings Kovy)...not a total lost cause, just far from what you were hoping for

- He regains 80-100% of his old form

Who knows, but I'm guessing it's going to be the second or third one.  If anything, I'm mildly intrigued by the idea of bringing him in without sending much the other way (if the Blues become that desperate to move him, regardless of the return), then finding a way to sell high when teams who don't want two years of his cap hit are willing to take whatever's left at the 2022 or 2023 deadline...obviously, he may not do enough to get much more back than it might take to get him.  But I like that Fitz, despite clearly having the cap room to take a risk, isn't jumping right into this.  If this is ever happening, it's going to be 100% on Fitz's terms...which means he'd rather not acquire a maybe "Top 6" forward with serious question marks, just to do something more.  Like I said, if the price never meets what Fitz is willing to pay, I'm fine with him passing.      

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16 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

Same here.   Hopefully he’s just treating it as a luxury if he can get him.   St Louis doesn’t have terrible cap problems so maybe just Andres Johnsson and a conditional pick if he hits some relatively high threshold for goals.   

    

I think that's exactly how Fitz sees it.  Wanna a 3rd, a 5th, and some decent young warm body with possible mild upside who doesn't fit into my plans?  I'll take on all of your hit?  We can talk.  

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24 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

So am I.  Tarasenko has Cammalleri 2.0 written all over him but with an even higher cap hit.  For a guy who has missed about 60-70% of possible GP in the past 2 seasons, that is a big gamble for whomever acquires him.

It's a little different because Cammalleri was just a guy who was brittle, had a long history of that, and it figured to get worse as he aged (I hated that signing the second it was announced).  Tarasenko didn't really start missing many games until two seasons ago...the big question is how the hell is his shoulder?  Even if he can play with it, how WELL can he play now?  That's what I'm curious to see...is he now able to stay in the lineup, but not nearly as productive?  

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3 hours ago, Crisis said:

I caught a few (parts of maybe 3) Bingo games at the end of the season when Holtz was playing with Tyce and.. sh!t, I can't think of who their center was but I'm sure someone here can chime in, but they were fun to watch.  Looking at Tyce and Holtz's stat line, they are a bit underwhelming for what I thought I saw, but I guess it was only about 10 games they played together, so maybe they can build on that.  Or maybe it's just a product of playing against only 3 teams that happened to be the top of the league.

Edit: Or maybe they just suck.

They should not play in the same line. This is a crime. Well, we should admit that our opponents were much more experienced, and there were no good centers in bing last season. Street had an injury and a covid. The whole season is a complete mess.

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31 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's a little different because Cammalleri was just a guy who was brittle, had a long history of that, and it figured to get worse as he aged (I hated that signing the second it was announced).  Tarasenko didn't really start missing many games until two seasons ago...the big question is how the hell is his shoulder?  Even if he can play with it, how WELL can he play now?  That's what I'm curious to see...is he now able to stay in the lineup, but not nearly as productive?  

Yeah cause if you watch the video of the last time his shoulder dislocated. It reaaaaally wasn't much, the dman was putting pressure on him on a rush and thats it. Would he be able to get a full hit in the boards or wtv?

Then if you're tarasenko? how confident are you out there and will it affect your style of play if you're always worried your shoulder my pop out?

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

So am I.  Tarasenko has Cammalleri 2.0 written all over him but with an even higher cap hit.  For a guy who has missed about 60-70% of possible GP in the past 2 seasons, that is a big gamble for whomever acquires him.

I see stuff like this and I wonder if you guys have any fvcking clue who Vladimir Tarasenko is. Comparing him to Mike Cammalleri is head-spinning. The to-be 33 year old UFA Cammalleri had two seasons in his entire career with over 30 goals. Tarasenko had five consecutive 30+ goal seasons in his last five healthy years.  Tarasenko will still only be 29 when the season starts. Tarasenko would never play a single game for the Devils older than Cammalleri's *first* year of his contract unless he was re-signed.

The only reason the asking price for Tarasenko isn't 4 first round picks is because of the injuries. The Devils aren't possibly acquiring in spite of those, they're possibly acquiring him because of those. The only reason "uhh idk Boqvist and a 2nd?" isn't laugh-out-loud funny is because it's a huge risk. And that's a risk the Devils should absolutely take, considering the insane amount of talent that can be acquired for cheap if he's healthy. 

Tarasenko currently scores goals at a .42g/game pace. That's Kovalchuk-levels of scoring. That's "one of the best scorers in the national hockey league" scoring. That's a risk well worth taking for only two years.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I see stuff like this and I wonder if you guys have any fvcking clue who Vladimir Tarasenko is. The to-be 33 year old UFA Cammalleri had two seasons in his entire career with over 30 goals. Tarasenko had five consecutive 30+ goal seasons in his last five healthy years.  Tarasenko will still only be 29 when the season starts. 

The only reason the asking price for Tarasenko isn't 4 first round picks is because of the injuries. The Devils aren't possibly acquiring in spite of those, they're possibly acquiring him because of those. The only reason "uhh idk Boqvist and a 2nd?" isn't laugh-out-loud funny is because it's a huge risk. And that's a risk the Devils should absolutely take, considering the insane amount of talent that can be acquired for cheap if he's healthy. 

Tarasenko currently scores goals at a .42g/game pace. That's Kovalchuk-levels of scoring. That's "one of the best scorers in the national hockey league" scoring. That's a risk well worth taking for only two years.

 

 

Except if Fitz sees our window to have a run at the cup is in say 3-5 years. Why trade assets that would be in their prime in those 3-5 years for a guy that may not be there anymore and not in his prime then? All of that to fill a gap. That's the question. Even if Tarasenko performs in these 2 years... in the big scheme, is it worth what we'd be trading.

And all that is not even taking in consideration the very high risk of injuries.

And to be clear i'm more leaning on trying to get him if the price is right than not. BUT if things go bad, that's really on us cause all the indications were on this move being very risky

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7 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I see stuff like this and I wonder if you guys have any fvcking clue who Vladimir Tarasenko is. Comparing him to Mike Cammalleri is head-spinning. The to-be 33 year old UFA Cammalleri had two seasons in his entire career with over 30 goals. Tarasenko had five consecutive 30+ goal seasons in his last five healthy years.  Tarasenko will still only be 29 when the season starts. Tarasenko would never play a single game for the Devils older than Cammalleri's *first* year of his contract unless he was re-signed.

The only reason the asking price for Tarasenko isn't 4 first round picks is because of the injuries. The Devils aren't possibly acquiring in spite of those, they're possibly acquiring him because of those. The only reason "uhh idk Boqvist and a 2nd?" isn't laugh-out-loud funny is because it's a huge risk. And that's a risk the Devils should absolutely take, considering the insane amount of talent that can be acquired for cheap if he's healthy. 

Tarasenko currently scores goals at a .42g/game pace. That's Kovalchuk-levels of scoring. That's "one of the best scorers in the national hockey league" scoring. That's a risk well worth taking for only two years.

 

 

"last five healthy years" is the key part of your post.  He has missed about 70% of his possible games played over the past 2 seasons and there are still concerns about his shoulder.

Maybe Cammalleri is a bad comparison.  Thinking a little more about it, I think Bure when the Rangers acquired him back in 2002 is probably better.  He didn't cost a lot (spare parts and picks) but his knee injuries eventually did him in and he played a total of 51 games over 1.25 seasons before retiring.  With Tarasenko, I am not concerned about what we may give up considering his price seems to be at an all-time low, but if the deal falls through and he manages to only play partial seasons from here on out and/or at a diminished capacity with another team I won't exactly be upset

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3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

For sure, i see stuff posted about him in hear that is also irritating me. That's what internet forums are.

The difference is if someone post something i don't agree with on a forum. I'll just either stay silent or engage to give my point of view on why i don't agree. I don't do the whole gatekeeping thing where people are not allowed to have certain opinions and express themselves. 

This again? Look, “express yourself” all you want, but just don’t be surprised that a lot of people find it annoying AF when you’re such a broken record. And btw you chose to respond to my post about you talking sh!t about Lou. So I don’t really see much of this “staying silent” you’re claiming you do. 

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10 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

This again? Look, “express yourself” all you want, but just don’t be surprised that a lot of people find it annoying AF when you’re such a broken record. And btw you chose to respond to my post about you talking sh!t about Lou. So I don’t really see much of this “staying silent” you’re claiming you do. 

You're literally replying to the SAME post you already replied to. There's no "this again" lol you're just getting upset at the same post

478209586_ScreenShot2021-08-02at6_59_33PM.thumb.png.57892a1f476b9313993be330a2f8c75f.png1614082556_ScreenShot2021-08-02at6_59_43PM.thumb.png.eb5a42c952187b85846bf755767d8626.png

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10 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

You're literally replying to the SAME post you already replied to. There's no "this again" lol you're just getting upset at the same post

478209586_ScreenShot2021-08-02at6_59_33PM.thumb.png.57892a1f476b9313993be330a2f8c75f.png1614082556_ScreenShot2021-08-02at6_59_43PM.thumb.png.eb5a42c952187b85846bf755767d8626.png

No idea how that happened. Could have sworn it was a new post. My apologies. 

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

"last five healthy years" is the key part of your post.  He has missed about 70% of his possible games played over the past 2 seasons and there are still concerns about his shoulder.

Maybe Cammalleri is a bad comparison.  Thinking a little more about it, I think Bure when the Rangers acquired him back in 2002 is probably better.  He didn't cost a lot (spare parts and picks) but his knee injuries eventually did him in and he played a total of 51 games over 1.25 seasons before retiring.  With Tarasenko, I am not concerned about what we may give up considering his price seems to be at an all-time low, but if the deal falls through and he manages to only play partial seasons from here on out and/or at a diminished capacity with another team I won't exactly be upset

Bure is a fantastic comparison. That was a move worth making even if it didn’t pan out. 

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2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well i guess Murray is going to Colorado

Did we need him? Who does this put into the lineup?

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