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The 2021 Offseason Thread


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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

Bratt is good if he can stay healthy.  Yegor has played exactly 54 NHL games.  I guess if simply making the NHL is the bar for anyone outside of a top 10 pick for the Devils I guess you can say they have done alright.  I just believe that is a pretty low bar.

I like how you twist everything, pull it out of context and omit unpleasant facts for yourself. You'd make a great politician.  It's a good thing that your possible political career could not have influenced the policy of the Devils organization on the selection of personnel for their departments.

Outside of jokes, Bratt and Yegor are great picks. Even if Bratt will never play 60+ games and Yegor will build his career in KHL after his current deal. Like all other players from our roster, they are still young and fresh and it will be possible to evaluate the quality of their choice after a while. But after a while, we will find out whether Bratt and Yegor were just good picks, or they will turn out to be just the most amazing, the most beautiful, freakin awesome picks. NHL 4th liner from 6th round is very good result. Top-6 player? This is more than great. 

And I don`t really understand why you are trying to talk about our draft in that way? What is your message? We will never end this rebuild? 

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Maybe the Devils simply liked Hischier that much?  We have no idea if another team would’ve taken Makar first…hell, the next two teams also didn’t take him…for that matter, he wasn’t even the first defenseman taken.  Are those  teams’ scouting departments also accused of defaulting to Button and McKenzie?

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9 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Maybe the Devils simply liked Hischier that much?  We have no idea if another team would’ve taken Makar first…hell, the next two teams also didn’t take him.  Are those scouting departments also accused of defaulting to Button and McKenzie?

I think it’s a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking to say we should have taken Makar. 

The best player in the draft is not always the first one picked, and probably more often than not it’s someone else other than 1 OA. 

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To render a final verdict on these players now is far too premature. Nico isn’t a final product and Colorado is loaded with talent to help Makar. Both will be great players - Makar is ahead of the development curve is all.

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17 minutes ago, devlman said:

To render a final verdict on these players now is far too premature. Nico isn’t a final product and Colorado is loaded with talent to help Makar. Both will be great players - Makar is ahead of the development curve is all.

I think this year is huge for Nico. If he doesn’t have a big year and/or is hurt again, I’m going to be displeased. 

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3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I think this year is huge for Nico. If he doesn’t have a big year and/or is hurt again, I’m going to be displeased. 

75+ games and 60+ points.  I’d really like to see that from Nico this season. 

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I have more modest expectations. We still don't have enough depth, which will put more responsibility on Hishier. More work means more injuries. Bratt, Zacha and Nico are injury prone.
In any case, I want to see a result of 25-30+ goals per 82 games. If Nico will score 30 goals and made 25-30 assist - I will be pretty happy with that. 25 goals and 30 assist - will be pretty ok for second line center. 
Nico isnt puck choirmaster. But he has good potential to be 25-35g scoring two way center. As it seems to me.

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31 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I think this year is huge for Nico. If he doesn’t have a big year and/or is hurt again, I’m going to be displeased. 

As I’ve said before, I think he breaks out this year. 50+ point seasons were nice before but won’t cut it anymore.

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3 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Again, a vast majority of fans don't know these prospects and are going what EP, Button or McKenzie put out.  That's why you had "everyone" figuring those two going 1 and 2.  However, when news that Shero was exploring taking Makar with the first overall pick was let out, Devils fans lost their collective sh!t.  Wouldn't it be nice if Shero chose him instead?  If Shero (and Devils scouting dept) was literally bound to what Button or McKenzie puts out, then why have a scouting department?

Nico is likely figuring to being the Devils 2nd line center unless Hughes is out.  The constant defense I hear about Nico is that he needs to play with better players.  The better players aren't likely going to be 2nd liners that raise Nico's game.  Instead, he would have to raise theirs.  I hope he does, but is it wrong to have doubts after 230 NHL games?

Bob McKenzie's list is a survey of various teams' head scouts, which may or may not include NJ and Colorado's scouting departments.  It's basically saying that most, if not all (but we don't know), NHL teams had Nico and Nolan going 1 and 2.  It's not like it's just some hot takes from a journalist who briefly looks at prospects.

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12 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Oh FFS.  Now we are going into quantity over quality nonsense?  I would take Rantanen over literally anyone over the list you provided including Nico Hischier.  Throw in Makar to Rantanen and it is not even close (and we could have technically selected both as they were chosen afterwards).  Now we are supposed to be happy that we are drafting more 4th liners and marginal NHL players than Colorado?

El-Oh-El

I mean... yeah? In an argument YOU started saying other teams were nailing their picks more often than not and that we didn't. That is 100% about quantity.

This is very very basic.

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9 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Why are you assuming they're "bound" to what Button or McKenzie was putting out?  I remember watching an interview with both Nico and Nolan (think it was the NHL Network), side by side (they had become friends), with the clear assumption that one of them was extremely likely to be the first pick overall.  There did seem to be a genuine consensus about who #1 and #2 were going to be, and sometimes as we've seen in ALL sports, those consensus top guys don't always work out as expected.  And it's not like the Devils didn't desperately need a top center at the time.  Were you upset about the pick at the time it was made?  

Look at RNH's draft...at the bottom of the second round went a guy named Kucherov.    

I said that we need to see Nico take a definitive step...and like I said, in 2021-22 that means 1) staying healthy, and 2) being more consistent.  The last few seasons have seen him get hurt and then seen his production drop, just when it looked like his game was moving forward.  Being that he's 22 and has shown signs, I can't say that I've reached the doubting phase yet.  But if this season is like the last few, even though he'd STILL be young, yeah, I'll start to wonder what his ceiling truly is.       

Not only that. During the broadcast, they literally had a split screen on Nico and Nolan to see their reactions. Only those 2.

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8 hours ago, Guadana said:

I like how you twist everything, pull it out of context and omit unpleasant facts for yourself. You'd make a great politician.  It's a good thing that your possible political career could not have influenced the policy of the Devils organization on the selection of personnel for their departments.

Outside of jokes, Bratt and Yegor are great picks. Even if Bratt will never play 60+ games and Yegor will build his career in KHL after his current deal. Like all other players from our roster, they are still young and fresh and it will be possible to evaluate the quality of their choice after a while. But after a while, we will find out whether Bratt and Yegor were just good picks, or they will turn out to be just the most amazing, the most beautiful, freakin awesome picks. NHL 4th liner from 6th round is very good result. Top-6 player? This is more than great. 

And I don`t really understand why you are trying to talk about our draft in that way? What is your message? We will never end this rebuild? 

I love how he brought up examples of us picking Hischier over Makar and Zacha over Rantanen. And from that he just claimed that Colorado is nailing their picks more often than not and that we don't. Plus our picks were aligned with the general consensus.

But then when we give him examples of us picking players later in the draft who are doing better, even way better than some other players Colorado picked early... he goes full silence on that or twist it to discard that fact.

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8 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Not only that. During the broadcast, they literally had a split screen on Nico and Nolan to see their reactions. Only those 2.

I'm not comfortable saying nobody thought about picking Makar or anyone else, but there was a near complete consensus that #1 was going to be Hischier or Patrick, to my recollection. 

I know its called a "draft lottery" because of the manner in which the drafting positions are passed out, but drafting is quite literally a lottery. You do the best you can and hope it works out. Like I said, the best guy isn't always the #1 pick. McDavid and Crosby were, sure. But look at some other first overall picks and then look at the guys drafted behind them. 

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4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I'm not comfortable saying nobody thought about picking Makar or anyone else, but there was a near complete consensus that #1 was going to be Hischier or Patrick, to my recollection. 

Yeah, and I don’t subscribe to any implication that somehow the Devils’ scouting didn’t do their homework, and chose to just go along with what Button and McKenzie saw.  It’s fine if some fans aren’t entirely happy with the way it’s gone with Hischier so far, but don’t say “Well they just should have taken the guy who’s off to a great start and was taken fourth!”  Not fair.  

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24 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah, and I don’t subscribe to any implication that somehow the Devils’ scouting didn’t do their homework, and chose to just go along with what Button and McKenzie saw.  It’s fine if some fans aren’t entirely happy with the way it’s gone with Hischier so far, but don’t say “Well they just should have taken the guy who’s off to a great start and was taken fourth!”  Not fair.  

Correct. You can do this with virtually every draft.

 

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18 hours ago, Guadana said:

I like how you twist everything, pull it out of context and omit unpleasant facts for yourself. You'd make a great politician.  It's a good thing that your possible political career could not have influenced the policy of the Devils organization on the selection of personnel for their departments.

Outside of jokes, Bratt and Yegor are great picks. Even if Bratt will never play 60+ games and Yegor will build his career in KHL after his current deal. Like all other players from our roster, they are still young and fresh and it will be possible to evaluate the quality of their choice after a while. But after a while, we will find out whether Bratt and Yegor were just good picks, or they will turn out to be just the most amazing, the most beautiful, freakin awesome picks. NHL 4th liner from 6th round is very good result. Top-6 player? This is more than great. 

And I don`t really understand why you are trying to talk about our draft in that way? What is your message? We will never end this rebuild? 

So on one hand you are saying it is too early to determine how Bratt and Yegor will be, but at the same time you are spiking the football about what great picks they are.  OK then.

As for the bolded, that's a riot.  Unlike you, I unfortunately do not have the option to fall back on the "English is not my first language" crap you have posted many times when you have been caught in your nonsense.

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17 hours ago, Guadana said:

I have more modest expectations. We still don't have enough depth, which will put more responsibility on Hishier. More work means more injuries. Bratt, Zacha and Nico are injury prone.
In any case, I want to see a result of 25-30+ goals per 82 games. If Nico will score 30 goals and made 25-30 assist - I will be pretty happy with that. 25 goals and 30 assist - will be pretty ok for second line center. 
Nico isnt puck choirmaster. But he has good potential to be 25-35g scoring two way center. As it seems to me.

The big thing this board keeps saying about Nico is that he isn't a finisher and needs a scoring winger.  He won't have a high-powered winger being a 2nd line center so he has to make a lot of his own.  So where are these predictions coming from?

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16 hours ago, Crisis said:

Bob McKenzie's list is a survey of various teams' head scouts, which may or may not include NJ and Colorado's scouting departments.  It's basically saying that most, if not all (but we don't know), NHL teams had Nico and Nolan going 1 and 2.  It's not like it's just some hot takes from a journalist who briefly looks at prospects.

I have openly wondered for years if the head scouts are even telling the truth.  Why would scouts openly blab and raise a players stock in a draft where they are hoping the player will fall and vice versa?

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18 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

So on one hand you are saying it is too early to determine how Bratt and Yegor will be, but at the same time you are spiking the football about what great picks they are.  OK then.

As for the bolded, that's a riot.  Unlike you, I unfortunately do not have the option to fall back on the "English is not my first language" crap you have posted many times when you have been caught in your nonsense.

He's saying they are already great picks for their draft position and it's possible they will get even better.

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10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

I mean... yeah? In an argument YOU started saying other teams were nailing their picks more often than not and that we didn't. That is 100% about quantity.

This is very very basic.

lol you mean to tell me that your definition is nailing a bunch of 4th line players/marginal NHL players versus 1 or 2 superstars?

My god.

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10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Not only that. During the broadcast, they literally had a split screen on Nico and Nolan to see their reactions. Only those 2.

I am glad you think so highly of the NBCSN broadcast director has that much sway on draft picks.

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4 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I have openly wondered for years if the head scouts are even telling the truth.  Why would scouts openly blab and raise a players stock in a draft where they are hoping the player will fall and vice versa?

Maybe Bob gets his info before teams know exactly where they are picking.  Bob's final list is typically pretty consistent with how the draft went.  I wonder if Shero publicly talked about Makar to see if he could move the pick around or generate some discussions.  Unfortunately we'll never know.

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10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

I love how he brought up examples of us picking Hischier over Makar and Zacha over Rantanen. And from that he just claimed that Colorado is nailing their picks more often than not and that we don't. Plus our picks were aligned with the general consensus.

But then when we give him examples of us picking players later in the draft who are doing better, even way better than some other players Colorado picked early... he goes full silence on that or twist it to discard that fact.

So you would rather have Hischier and Zacha over Makar and Rantanen?  In both situations, both players were picked within a few spots of each other so they were very likely in the same pool that the scouts were mulling over.  I just find it interesting that we chose a 2nd line center and a 2nd/3rd liner winger over a superstar winger and possibly the best D-man in the game.

Oh as for my silence, we had a little bit of a hurricane last night that killed the power to my home overnight.  Sorry my first thought wasn't going onto njdevs to see what your reply was.

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah, and I don’t subscribe to any implication that somehow the Devils’ scouting didn’t do their homework, and chose to just go along with what Button and McKenzie saw.  It’s fine if some fans aren’t entirely happy with the way it’s gone with Hischier so far, but don’t say “Well they just should have taken the guy who’s off to a great start and was taken fourth!”  Not fair.  

Not only great start, but already arguably the best D-man in the league.  Meanwhile with our first overall we have a 2nd line winger.

I am not saying that Nico isn't a dud, but is it really controversial to say we got the 4th best player out of the top 5 in the 2017 draft?  Maybe he will improve a bit, but at this moment on September 2nd of 2021 he is the 4th best out of those 5.

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