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The 2021 Offseason Thread


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3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Not only great start, but already arguably the best D-man in the league.  Meanwhile with our first overall we have a 2nd line winger.

I am not saying that Nico isn't a dud, but is it really controversial to say we got the 4th best player out of the top 5 in the 2017 draft?  Maybe he will improve a bit, but at this moment on September 2nd of 2021 he is the 4th best out of those 5.

No, it's controversial to say that our scouting department botched the pick by NOT going off the board to reach for Makar.

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Just now, Crisis said:

No, it's controversial to say that our scouting department botched the pick by NOT going off the board to reach for Makar.

Makar went 4th overall.  It's not a gigantic leap nor going off the board.  This is not like picking a 2nd/3rd rounder with a late 1st round pick which we did two draft years in a row.  Now THAT is going off the board.

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13 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Makar went 4th overall.  It's not a gigantic leap nor going off the board.  This is not like picking a 2nd/3rd rounder with a late 1st round pick which we did two draft years in a row.  Now THAT is going off the board.

It is going off the board though.  Show me one credible, pre-draft article from 2017 saying that Makar was on the same tier as Nico and Nolan.  Because you're just spouting the same repetitive, cynical bullsh!t you always do.  I replied to another one of your obnoxious posts about Shakir showing you multiple articles from McKenzie, Pronman, Button, etc. putting him in the late 1st and 2nd round.  But here we are again.

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10 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Makar went 4th overall.  It's not a gigantic leap nor going off the board.  This is not like picking a 2nd/3rd rounder with a late 1st round pick which we did two draft years in a row.  Now THAT is going off the board.

A lot of times, there’s a fair drop off from first to fourth overall though.  

My issue with what you’re saying isn’t that you’re not happy with Nico to date (and I don’t equate that to you saying that Nico’s a dud), it’s that you’ve implied that the Devils’ scouts (and/or Shero and Fitz) defaulted to some scouting list and based their pick on that, and/or should have known that the guy that wasn’t expected to be picked #1 overall should’ve been the Devils’ choice (this is what you seem to be strongly implying).  I think that the Devils made the pick they thought best suited their organization…they did need a top center, and Nico projected as one at that time.  And like I said…why didn’t the Flyers or Stars jump all over the Devils “mistake” themselves and draft Makar?  It sure does appear that several scouting teams likely had Nico and Nolan as the top 2…I don’t remember anyone saying that Makar “fell” to fourth at the time.

Like mfitz said, you pick the guy you feel is the best at the time.  It simply doesn’t always work out that way…but I still don’t think this story has been fully written yet either.  

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https://thehockeywriters.com/2017-nhl-draft-final-consensus-rankings/

This includes like 6 lists.  They have Makar at 3, 4, 5, 7, 9.  Every one has Nico and Nolan at the top.

Quote

As you can see once you dig into the handy table below, there’s a ton of variation in the various rankings. Everybody has Patrick and Hischier as the top pairing in some order. Then most rankings have combinations of Heiskanen, Vilardi, Makar and Mittelstadt as the next four, with some variations and exceptions.

 

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2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am glad you think so highly of the NBCSN broadcast director has that much sway on draft picks.

It's just confirming that the whole hockey world was set on either Nico or Nolan going #1. It was certainly not a 3 way race. But of course you only get what you want to get out of what people say

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2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

So you would rather have Hischier and Zacha over Makar and Rantanen?  In both situations, both players were picked within a few spots of each other so they were very likely in the same pool that the scouts were mulling over.  I just find it interesting that we chose a 2nd line center and a 2nd/3rd liner winger over a superstar winger and possibly the best D-man in the game.

Oh as for my silence, we had a little bit of a hurricane last night that killed the power to my home overnight.  Sorry my first thought wasn't going onto njdevs to see what your reply was.

It's like you either don't understand hindsight 20/20 at all or just don't want to cause it would go against what you want to believe.

Yeah of fvcking course i'd rather have Makar and Rantanen but i FULLY understand that's hindsight 20/20 and that i can't fault our scouts for that. Players develop differently and it's very hard to predict. 

Like how are you NOT understanding that? You nitpicked 2 individual picks to try to make an entire point ignoring SO many examples that goes against what you're saying.

And your silence is not about one night. You KEEP bringing up Makar and Rantanen. And you keep ignoring when people point out that WE also made better picks than Colorado.

For example, Do you understand Tampa picked another player before they picked Kucherov right? Meaning they thought their first round pick was going to be better?

 

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2 hours ago, Crisis said:

It is going off the board though.  Show me one credible, pre-draft article from 2017 saying that Makar was on the same tier as Nico and Nolan.  Because you're just spouting the same repetitive, cynical bullsh!t you always do.  I replied to another one of your obnoxious posts about Shakir showing you multiple articles from McKenzie, Pronman, Button, etc. putting him in the late 1st and 2nd round.  But here we are again.

I am glad you have been seemingly alright with the direction of the team over the good part of the last 10 years.

I also showed you articles about Shakir being ranked as far as the 3rd round as well with zero response.

The owners must love you as a fan.  They could nickel and dime and suck for eternity and you will still lap it up.

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2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

A lot of times, there’s a fair drop off from first to fourth overall though.  

My issue with what you’re saying isn’t that you’re not happy with Nico to date (and I don’t equate that to you saying that Nico’s a dud), it’s that you’ve implied that the Devils’ scouts (and/or Shero and Fitz) defaulted to some scouting list and based their pick on that, and/or should have known that the guy that wasn’t expected to be picked #1 overall should’ve been the Devils’ choice (this is what you seem to be strongly implying).  I think that the Devils made the pick they thought best suited their organization…they did need a top center, and Nico projected as one at that time.  And like I said…why didn’t the Flyers or Stars jump all over the Devils “mistake” themselves and draft Makar?  It sure does appear that several scouting teams likely had Nico and Nolan as the top 2…I don’t remember anyone saying that Makar “fell” to fourth at the time.

Like mfitz said, you pick the guy you feel is the best at the time.  It simply doesn’t always work out that way…but I still don’t think this story has been fully written yet either.  

At first overall, you have your choice of everyone.  By the time the Stars went, Hischier and Patrick were off the board, so it was likely between Makar and Heiskanen  Maybe Heiskanen is not good as Makar, but right now I would be lying saying I would rather have Hischier over him.

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34 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

It's like you either don't understand hindsight 20/20 at all or just don't want to cause it would go against what you want to believe.

Yeah of fvcking course i'd rather have Makar and Rantanen but i FULLY understand that's hindsight 20/20 and that i can't fault our scouts for that. Players develop differently and it's very hard to predict. 

Like how are you NOT understanding that? You nitpicked 2 individual picks to try to make an entire point ignoring SO many examples that goes against what you're saying.

And your silence is not about one night. You KEEP bringing up Makar and Rantanen. And you keep ignoring when people point out that WE also made better picks than Colorado.

For example, Do you understand Tampa picked another player before they picked Kucherov right? Meaning they thought their first round pick was going to be better?

 

My point is how are scouts on other teams able to draft players like Rantanen and Makar with later picks than Zacha and Hischier who were drafted higher?  Are you saying they are literally just more lucky?  If that's the case, the Devils have an awful time with luck.

lol we didn't make better picks than Colorado.  Which player outside of Hughes (who was drafted 1st overall) have we drafted since 2015 that are better than either Makar or Rantanen?  I really don't know how you can say with a straight face we drafted better than them with that in mind.

Tampa was still able to draft Kucherov lol.  What player have the Devils drafted in the 2nd round in the past 10 years that have scored 100+ points a season?  Meanwhile in that draft (2011), we drafted Larsson in the first round, traded away our 2nd rounder for 2/3 a season of Arnott, and had to forfeit our 3rd rounder because of the Kovy contract.  I guess in your mind we did wonderfully in that draft compared to Tampa.

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29 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I can have two??

 

C343BC8F-DC48-481F-B8B9-DE76D9B15DD3.jpeg

According to him, I am supposed to feel good that we drafted Boqvist and Bastian and that they played in the NHL.  Our fans have been beaten so mercilessly by this  team and ownership group that they have come under some sort of Stockholm Syndrome to accept that outside of the first overall pick you hope to draft someone to play at least 1 NHL game and count that as a win.

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Just now, DevsMan84 said:

Which player outside of Hughes (who was drafted 1st overall) have we drafted since 2015 that are better than either Makar or Rantanen?

Only time will tell, but ask me in a couple years if I would have traded Hughes straight up for Makar. 

Just now, DevsMan84 said:

According to him, I am supposed to feel good that we drafted Boqvist and Bastian and that they played in the NHL.

Boqvist is the new Zacha. 

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

Only time will tell, but ask me in a couple years if I would have traded Hughes straight up for Makar. 

Boqvist is the new Zacha. 

If it is between Hischier/Hughes and Makar/Rantanen, I am taking the latter 100 times out of 100.

My new Zacha is Zetterlund since Sterio seems to be high on him with his 4 or 5 training camps and zero point zero NHL games under his belt.

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Just now, DevsMan84 said:

If it is between Hischier/Hughes and Makar/Rantanen, I am taking the latter 100 times out of 100.

My new Zacha is Zetterlund since Sterio seems to be high on him with his 4 or 5 training camps and zero point zero NHL games under his belt.

I can’t give Zetterlund the Zacha treatment yet because he hasn’t played. Plus he has a funny name and I like that. 

Boqvist, on the other hand, has a q with no u, which triggers my American OCD, and doesn’t belong in the NHL. 

He’s more Josefson 2.0 than Zacha. At least so far. 

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39 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am glad you have been seemingly alright with the direction of the team over the good part of the last 10 years.

I also showed you articles about Shakir being ranked as far as the 3rd round as well with zero response.

The owners must love you as a fan.  They could nickel and dime and suck for eternity and you will still lap it up.

You're delusional

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5 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

So on one hand you are saying it is too early to determine how Bratt and Yegor will be, but at the same time you are spiking the football about what great picks they are.  OK then.

As for the bolded, that's a riot.  Unlike you, I unfortunately do not have the option to fall back on the "English is not my first language" crap you have posted many times when you have been caught in your nonsense.

Yes. they are. for six rounders they did make enough.

If you are offended by jokes about politics-okay. Your right. I definitely lack empathy.

About Nico game - everybody have thier own vision. Good scoring winger will help Nico, but I think he needs in good playmayker more. May be I`m wrong and Nico is good enough playmaker. I just see more scoring potential in him rather than playmaking potential. This is very subjective and I do not argue with it.

Edited by Guadana
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4 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

Makar went 4th overall.  It's not a gigantic leap nor going off the board.  This is not like picking a 2nd/3rd rounder with a late 1st round pick which we did two draft years in a row.  Now THAT is going off the board.

It isn't totally fair to refer to Stillman or especially Mukhamadullin as 2nd/3rd rounders when you also assume Makar was in the running for a top 2 spot in the 2017 draft. The Stillman/Mukhamadullin argument is based on the idea that public draft rankings reflect consensus between scouts, while the Makar argument is the total opposite.

If you're unhappy with who the Devils took 2017, that's fine. It sucks if Nico never turns out to be a top 3 talent from that draft. But we really can't pretend that anyone is drafting Cale Makar first, or even second, in that draft. 

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In reality, The (almost) clear choice was Nico/Patrick. Both centers, and you always pick a center. The entire Devil fan base (sitting outside in Championship square) roared when we picked Nico. Also, Hughes was the absolute no brainer Number 1 overall.  Folks outside the Rock, went nuts (and rightfully so) 

Go "off the board"?  I think not.  

 

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1 hour ago, Guadana said:

Yes. they are. for six rounders they did make enough.

If you are offended by jokes about politics-okay. Your right. I definitely lack empathy.

About Nico game - everybody have thier own vision. Good scoring winger will help Nico, but I think he needs in good playmayker more. May be I`m wrong and Nico is good enough playmaker. I just see more scoring potential in him rather than playmaking potential. This is very subjective and I do not argue with it.

Who the hell is offended?  You pull this passive-aggressive crap all the time and blame it on the language barrier even though you speak English just fine.

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3 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

According to him, I am supposed to feel good that we drafted Boqvist and Bastian and that they played in the NHL.  Our fans have been beaten so mercilessly by this  team and ownership group that they have come under some sort of Stockholm Syndrome to accept that outside of the first overall pick you hope to draft someone to play at least 1 NHL game and count that as a win.

lol are you even trying to understand what we're all trying to tell you? You're clearly not. You're absolutely delusional on this

You made claims that we're 100% hindsight 20/20. People called you out on it and proved those claims wrong. Nobody is asking you to be happy that luck didn't go our way. Nobody is happy about that. I suspect there's not a single for who'd want Zacha over Rantanen. 

But to claim our scouts/management doesnt nail picks more often than not and nitpicking examples that ONLY YOU perceive as a mistake like picking Hischier over Makar or Zacha over Rantanen. You seem the only person here completely failing to understand hindsight 20/20. 

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41 minutes ago, vadvlfan said:

In reality, The (almost) clear choice was Nico/Patrick. Both centers, and you always pick a center. The entire Devil fan base (sitting outside in Championship square) roared when we picked Nico. Also, Hughes was the absolute no brainer Number 1 overall.  Folks outside the Rock, went nuts (and rightfully so) 

Go "off the board"?  I think not.  

 

I am not the one arguing drafting Makar 1st overall was going "off the board."  According to the consensus here, it was and should only have been between Nico and Nolan and that's it.

I am not talking about Hughes in any shape or form here.

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