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The 2021 Offseason Thread


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2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

All I’m going to say about Seth Jones is he isn’t worth the cost UNLESS there is an extension involved. I don’t even want to talk to them about it if he isn’t willing to lock in long term as part of the deal. 

I don’t think anyone would disagree with that but whether we’re talking about the Devils making a move for him or the Leafs moving Marner, I have to think the Blue Jackets would be willing to let any serious suitor talk extension with him in advance to maximize the return.  Otherwise, yeah, his value is significantly less, or in our case nothing, if we’re just going to lose him next year.  

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48 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Perhaps a chart to tell you if he's expected to be a top 10 dman?

That’s what I would expect. 

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47 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

I don’t think anyone would disagree with that but whether we’re talking about the Devils making a move for him or the Leafs moving Marner, I have to think the Blue Jackets would be willing to let any serious suitor talk extension with him in advance to maximize the return.  Otherwise, yeah, his value is significantly less, or in our case nothing, if we’re just going to lose him next year.  

I wasn’t worried about the Jackets, I was worried about whether Jones would want to sign here long term. I have no doubt Columbus would permit such discussions. 

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2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

All I’m going to say about Seth Jones is he isn’t worth the cost UNLESS there is an extension involved. I don’t even want to talk to them about it if he isn’t willing to lock in long term as part of the deal. 

yeah thats a no brainer.

At some point there was "some" hope that we could have 2 windows of success. 1 with Hall as the centerpiece, in his prime and it would have required the rest of the team to support him a lot better and our young guys to hit the ground running. But that didn't happen.

Then we have our window when Jack, Nico, Bratt etc will be in their prime. That's when and if we have a shot at a cup, thats when its going to happen. But until then there's this awkward window where... nico and jack are not good enough and that signing any top free agents would just be wasting away their talent cause they'd just be a temporary thing. 

To me the last few years were that. And we maybe have another 2 years maybe of that window. And why i'd ideally want Fitz to try to get creative and land guys in the 23-24 years old range so that we can have a solid group that can grow together and where we can then be attractive to free agent and sign someone that could give us a good push while everyone is in their prime.

All of that to say that Jones is slightly older than i'd want to target a player in a perfect world but still young enough and really good enough that i'd be obviously fine with it if it happened

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Posted (edited)

I'm pretty sure Jones wants to play for Colorado. That's where he grew up and has a history with Sakic i believe. And they are a fvcking powerhouse so... IF that's what he has in mind. Convincing him to come to NJ would requirer one hell of a pitch.

I mean i cant blame him. Probably his fav team growing up, they are in their absolute prime at the moment, and while he's just about to hit his prime and when he can sign with whoever he wantrs. He'd join an incredibly solid team and be able to help them. Would likely be willing to take a discount to sign there too.

Edited by SterioDesign
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Posted (edited)
On 6/2/2021 at 12:33 AM, SterioDesign said:

I'm pretty sure Jones wants to play for Colorado. That's where he grew up and has a history with Sakic i believe. And they are a fvcking powerhouse so... IF that's what he has in mind. Convincing him to come to NJ would requirer one hell of a pitch.

They don’t really need him though. If they want Jones, they’ll have to give up a lot, and then pay him. That’s with Makar and MacKinnon and some others needing raises relatively soon. I don’t think it makes sense for Colorado.

Edited by MadDog2020
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5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

They don’t really need him though. If they want Jones, they’ll have to give up a lot, and then pay him . That’s with Makar and MacKinnon and some others needing raises relatively soon. I don’t think it makes sense for Colorado.

yeah for sure but if you're Jones you still want that to open

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6 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

They don’t really need him though. If they want Jones, they’ll have to give up a lot, and then pay him . That’s with Makar and MacKinnon and some others needing raises relatively soon. I don’t think it makes sense for Colorado.

I feel like every time we say something like this makes no sense, it’s exactly what happens. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Everyone oughta go listen to Scott O'Neil's segment on the 31 Thoughts Podcast from yesterday. 

It's probably just because I'm in the "optimistic" part of the offseason, but it made me feel pretty good about the direction of the franchise. He talked about getting to "50-win" ready, not rushing the process / adding bad contracts that inhibit that, making sure management/training staff/coaching staff are all gelling as a unit by the time the young core takes the next big step.

He took a lot of heat saying the exact same thing for a few years with the Sixers while they looked totally uncompetitive from a player standpoint and totally "oh who cares" from a management standpoint, but they "trusted the process" and the result is the current best team in the Eastern Conference currently in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

EDIT: Oh, he also says "yeah, we gotta spend more money" which has my tits jacked. 

Edited by MB3
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19 hours ago, MB3 said:

Everyone oughta go listen to Scott O'Neil's segment on the 31 Thoughts Podcast from yesterday. 

It's probably just because I'm in the "optimistic" part of the offseason, but it made me feel pretty good about the direction of the franchise. He talked about getting to "50-win" ready, not rushing the process / adding bad contracts that inhibit that, making sure management/training staff/coaching staff are all gelling as a unit by the time the young core takes the next big step.

He took a lot of heat saying the exact same thing for a few years with the Sixers while they looked totally uncompetitive from a player standpoint and totally "oh who cares" from a management standpoint, but they "trusted the process" and the result is the current best team in the Eastern Conference currently in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

EDIT: Oh, he also says "yeah, we gotta spend more money" which has my tits jacked. 

Hopefully going into the 2022-23 season, there's enough of a prospect/young player base that the Devils can move some of them for missing pieces.  I've already resigned myself to the fact that this is probably going to be a relatively uneventful offseason...sure, there will be moves made, but nothing sexy...I can see a couple of Johnsson-type moves.  Maybe Murphy re-signed to a short-term deal.  Possibly a mid-tier signing or two, on the Devils' terms (read:  no more than three years max).

I have nothing to base this on, but I get the feeling it's the 2022 offseason where the Devils are going to become a lot more aggressive.  For now I think it's about the 4th-overall pick, Nico staying healthy, Jack continuing to develop, and how far away the "next wave" (Bahl, Holtz, Mercer, etc) is from sticking around.  Means that we'll have to continue to be patient, more than likely...won't always be easy, but I can suck it up for another year...especially if guys like Sharangovich and Kuokkanen and others build off last season. 

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1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Hopefully going into the 2022-23 season, there's enough of a prospect/young player base that the Devils can move some of them for missing pieces.  I've already resigned myself to the fact that this is probably going to be a relatively uneventful offseason...sure, there will be moves made, but nothing sexy...I can see a couple of Johnsson-type moves.  Maybe Murphy re-signed to a short-term deal.  Possibly a mid-tier signing or two, on the Devils' terms (read:  no more than three years max).

I have nothing to base this on, but I get the feeling it's the 2022 offseason where the Devils are going to become a lot more aggressive.  For now I think it's about the 4th-overall pick, Nico staying healthy, Jack continuing to develop, and how far away the "next wave" (Bahl, Holtz, Mercer, etc) is from sticking around.  Means that we'll have to continue to be patient, more than likely...won't always be easy, but I can suck it up for another year...especially if guys like Sharangovich and Kuokkanen and others build off last season. 

whats your alternative? 

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9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

whats your alternative? 

It's not "my" alternative necessarily, but Fitz could try to go to hard after Hamilton (doesn't mean that he'd get him of course), maybe explore trading some youth now for an established piece (like Laine...not saying that I'm bullish on him, but there's more aggressive moves Fitz could look into).

I don't think Fitz is even going to explore those options right now though.  I still think it's one more year of building up the youth base and kids developing.  

If the kids do take steps forward (and the team stays relatively healthy), maybe the Devils can hang around as a bubble team for a good chunk of 2021-22...if they can do that and are entertaining, I could live with that.  

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It was a good listen. I'd say I'm generally optimistic but man, does this guy sound like a total salesman. Aside from me thinking that this interview was mostly part of a book tour for his new one, he just seems like a hype man. He went out of his way to mention like every name on the roster which kind of dilutes the genuine enthusiasm for me.

However, cynic aside, I do think that he is ready to run through a wall to make this a competitive team in the near future like the Sixers, and that's exciting af. I also bought into his (or maybe moreso it was Marek's) philosophy that they are getting the organization ready to be able to support the team when they get good and start rolling. He was pretty blunt about their willingness to spend money. It sounds like the plan is for most to go into the organization before the players. I don't know if this is the summer he opens his wallet to the roster, but I do think they go hard next off-season.

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I am not going to get my hopes up based on what that suit says on a podcast.  This is now the 3rd or 4th offseason now where we have management talking about "weaponizing cap space" again and turning around a hockey team and basketball team are two very different processes.  

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's not "my" alternative necessarily, but Fitz could try to go to hard after Hamilton (doesn't mean that he'd get him of course), maybe explore trading some youth now for an established piece (like Laine...not saying that I'm bullish on him, but there's more aggressive moves Fitz could look into).

I don't think Fitz is even going to explore those options right now though.  I still think it's one more year of building up the youth base and kids developing.  

If the kids do take steps forward (and the team stays relatively healthy), maybe the Devils can hang around as a bubble team for a good chunk of 2021-22...if they can do that and are entertaining, I could live with that.  

If that is what the off-season plan is then I am seriously going to question if I should even bother watching games next season.  The team should be exploring every option to get better.  The bolded is the job for farm teams.

I am not expecting meaningful help coming from free agency as I think Hamilton is a pipe dream, but the Devils should be exploring more options on the trade market rather than going dumpster diving for other team's bad contracts for yet another year.  The objective is to make the team better each season rather than being an NHL kindergarten or having the most cost-effective lineup.

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42 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

If that is what the off-season plan is then I am seriously going to question if I should even bother watching games next season.  The team should be exploring every option to get better.  The bolded is the job for farm teams.

I am not expecting meaningful help coming from free agency as I think Hamilton is a pipe dream, but the Devils should be exploring more options on the trade market rather than going dumpster diving for other team's bad contracts for yet another year.  The objective is to make the team better each season rather than being an NHL kindergarten or having the most cost-effective lineup.

I do think they'll explore some mid-tier signings (read:  Coleman) that should help.  But I think right now, their plan is to get better from within, with the hopes that the many of the young players already here will be better in 2021-22 and beyond.

I'm willing (a little begrudgingly) to be patient one more season mostly because I believe that we'll see a real push next off-season...again, I have nothing to base that feeling on...just feels like a hunch.  Not to mention that there's going to be a fvck-ton of money to spend...though it's fair to point that the Devils will have some RFA raises to give out this season (and Jack goes RFA after next season, along with Wood, Zacha, and Bratt...these three are all arbitration eligible).  

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Man I enjoyed that interview to an extent, but did he ever come off as a suit with rich friends.  Just a little too pompous and self-congratulatory for me at times.

It did make me feel like the franchise is in relatively good hands, though.  Seemed to know enough to at least speak somewhat intelligently to what the team needs to be doing here moving forward.

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21 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I do think they'll explore some mid-tier signings (read:  Coleman) that should help.  But I think right now, their plan is to get better from within, with the hopes that the many of the young players already here will be better in 2021-22 and beyond.

I'm willing (a little begrudgingly) to be patient one more season mostly because I believe that we'll see a real push next off-season...again, I have nothing to base that feeling on...just feels like a hunch.  Not to mention that there's going to be a fvck-ton of money to spend...though it's fair to point that the Devils will have some RFA raises to give out this season (and Jack goes RFA after next season, along with Wood, Zacha, and Bratt...these three are all arbitration eligible).  

Maye I am being overly pessimistic, but I just don't have that kind of confidence in this team to really make a push either this off-season or next season.  I really hope I am wrong, but if they are staying the course as they have the past few seasons, then this is just going to drag on.

We have a huge amount of money to spend, more than anyone else in the NHL.  The problem is actually using that money.  Top-tier free agents aren't coming to NJ for a variety of factors.  Most players in that category have taken less in recent memory to play on teams that are far more attractive than NJ is this off-season and next off-season.  The players who take the highest bid these days tend to be the lower to mid-tier free agents who likely won't move the needle much.

Significant help will have to come from a trade.  Based on the recent history of the Devils trading picks and spare parts for other teams crap/headaches, don't mind me if I am not as hopeful as you.

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19 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Man I enjoyed that interview to an extent, but did he ever come off as a suit with rich friends.  Just a little too pompous and self-congratulatory for me at times.

It did make me feel like the franchise is in relatively good hands, though.  Seemed to know enough to at least speak somewhat intelligently to what the team needs to be doing here moving forward.

He has managed to convince a significant portion of the fans to accept the team being terrible while spending the least amount of money possible is somehow a good thing.  At the same time, our social media team is cheering on the fact that our first round draft pick from trading away two of our roster players, including our top line winger, is getting worse and worse as the Islanders continue to progress in the playoffs.

If I was him, I would be doing cartwheels.

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Wasn't sure which thread for this but, just listening to "Under review" on XM brought to my attention the majority of Av's players are from trades, not from drafting. Their drafts were better recently but on current roster most were via trades. Toews, Girard, Graves, Nemeth, Ian Cole , Saad, Burakovsky, Kadri, Donskoi, Nichuskin, Bellemore, Eric Johnson, Grubauer, . They have some guys they hope with be decent pro's "Newhook, Bowen, & Jost.  The big 3 Rantanen, #29, & Landescog all doing well.. Devils need beef on their back end (Oleksiak, Forbert, etc. Maybe Fitz can sign a couple.

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40 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm willing (a little begrudgingly) to be patient one more season mostly because I believe that we'll see a real push next off-season

We’ve been saying this verbatim for fvcking YEARS. Enough. THIS off-season I want tangible fvcking improvement. Not next. Not in two years. NOW.

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11 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Maye I am being overly pessimistic, but I just don't have that kind of confidence in this team to really make a push either this off-season or next season.  I really hope I am wrong, but if they are staying the course as they have the past few seasons, then this is just going to drag on.

We have a huge amount of money to spend, more than anyone else in the NHL.  The problem is actually using that money.  Top-tier free agents aren't coming to NJ for a variety of factors.  Most players in that category have taken less in recent memory to play on teams that are far more attractive than NJ is this off-season and next off-season.  The players who take the highest bid these days tend to be the lower to mid-tier free agents who likely won't move the needle much.

Significant help will have to come from a trade.  Based on the recent history of the Devils trading picks and spare parts for other teams crap/headaches, don't mind me if I am not as hopeful as you.

I wouldn't say I'm overwhelmingly hopeful by any stretch.  Based on how things are looking, best-case is a lot of these kids work out, and the Devils lock them up without much problem, because they'll clearly have the money to do it.  Maybe two or three of those guys get dealt for something really good.  I agree, right now I don't think any big-time needle-movers are coming via UFA.  As much as I would welcome Hamilton into the fold, I don't kid myself that he's ever coming here...especially since I don't even think Fitz will throw his hat into the ring.  

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the thing with trades is that we didnt have anything of value to trade until very recently. it takes times but we need to remember we basically built this team from almost nothing. It was going to take time to draft players that are capable enough that we have assets to spare. So obviously we had to go the low risk high rewards path for all those years. doesnt really panned out much but that was literally our only option

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