Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 57 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: I want improvement on the improvement. Fitz needs to sack up and make a big move this off-season. Period. What kind of big move are you looking for? Hamilton being signed to a big UFA deal? A trade for an established star? Just asking. I think most of the shopping this season gets done in the mid-tier aisle. If anything I think Fitz (who was obviously here at the time) looks at the PK acquisition and will be that much more cautious about making a move like that the next time...of course, there were signs that pointed to PK not being what he was, so hopefully if there was a deal that made plenty more sense, that Fitz wouldn't get cold feet, just because. Saw your link to Dunn just now...yeah, I could get behind that. 3 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: As celebrated as Shero is, I think he clearly misjudged this rebuild. You don't trade assets to acquire Palmieri, Hall, Vats, Mueller, Johansson, Subban etc if you expect to still be picking in the top 5 for the next half decade when you could have just signed plugs. We still would have finished bottom 5 every year without those guys. I trust the scouts and drafting a lot more these days, but our only overall improvement is literally "we drafted a bunch of guys and got slapped around in the playoffs once" Definitely didn't help that the last three guys on that acquisition list didn't help much...even though I agreed with most of Shero's trades, as we've been over, too many of them didn't work out. And we can't ever minimize how much Cory's from out-of-nowhere bottoming out really hurt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 39 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: That's the point of signing a 28 years old in his prime when 75% of your team is not "ready" yet. You're just going to waste those prime years for nothing and that player was just another patchwork that led to nothing other than filling a gap and not getting us further. So it looks like you are trying to free agents who might consider coming here. Last season’s roster of half AHL players won’t do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: What kind of big move are you looking for? Hamilton being signed to a big UFA deal? A trade for an established star? Just asking. I think most of the shopping this season gets done in the mid-tier aisle. If anything I think Fitz (who was obviously here at the time) looks at the PK acquisition and will be that much more cautious about making a move like that the next time...of course, there were signs that pointed to PK not being what he was, so hopefully if there was a deal that made plenty more sense, that Fitz wouldn't get cold feet, just because. Saw your link to Dunn just now...yeah, I could get behind that. Definitely didn't help that the last three guys on that acquisition list didn't help much...even though I agreed with most of Shero's trades, as we've been over, too many of them didn't work out. And we can't ever minimize how much Cory's from out-of-nowhere bottoming out really hurt. If only Schneider and his tragic(ly) hip could have held out another year or so, it might have been perfect for Blackwood to take the reigns. Poor Kinkaid was just not able to handle what he got thrown into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: THIS is the type of move Fitz should be looking at: https://www.si.com/hockey/news/where-could-vince-dunn-end-up-this-summer?fbclid=IwAR3tjfldNHo27b_rROhw4U7nrzhcz58bVjLkAW89gILWcSKk3sW_FdGxUN8 this is exactly the type of moves we've been making for years... mojo, subban, murray, gusev, johnnson, ... etc etc Edited June 11, 2021 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: I trust the scouts and drafting a lot more these days, but our only overall improvement is literally "we drafted a bunch of guys and got slapped around in the playoffs once" And regarding the first part, that doesn’t even impress me, you are supposed to draft the best you can every year. Every team does that every year. The second part doesn’t impress me at all. The moves Shero made, for the most part, didn’t pan out, or panned out for only a short while (minus Palmieri). I guess that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, SterioDesign said: this is exactly the type of moves we've been making for years... I mean yeah, that’s not exactly a superstar move. If we can fill a gap with him and he works out, that’s good, but that can’t be our best move on D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, mfitz804 said: And regarding the first part, that doesn’t even impress me, you are supposed to draft the best you can every year. Every team does that every year. The second part doesn’t impress me at all. The moves Shero made, for the most part, didn’t pan out, or panned out for only a short while (minus Palmieri). I guess that happens. Yeah it doesn't impress me either. Trading picks for players and then flipping the acquired players for more picks tells me something went wrong in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SterioDesign said: this is exactly the type of moves we've been making for years... mojo, subban, murray, gusev, johnnson, ... etc etc Dunn is 24 and an RFA at a position of extreme need that St. Louis can’t afford. It’s exactly the type of move we should be exploring. Edited June 11, 2021 by MadDog2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said: Yeah it doesn't impress me either. Trading picks for players and then flipping the acquired players for more picks tells me something went wrong in the process. Unless you traded up and turned lower picks into higher picks, then yeah, something didn’t work out, or you are way earlier in your rebuild than you thought. Just now, MadDog2020 said: Dunn is 24 and an RFA they can’t afford. It’s exactly the type of move we should be exploring. I agree, but NOT instead of pursuing a big name, stud defenseman. In addition to. We probably need 4 defensemen lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: Dunn is 24 and an RFA they can’t afford. It’s exactly the type of move we should be exploring. i know and i don't disagree. I'm just saying we've been making these types of deal for years already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, SterioDesign said: i know and i don't disagree. I'm just saying we've been making these types of deal for years already I think Dunn is better than a lot of those other guys. Certainly younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said: I think Dunn is better than a lot of those other guys. Certainly younger. MoJo really looked like a nice grab at the time...was coming off a career year...the hope was obviously that he was going to continue to be that kind of player going forward. But yeah, I'd say that Dunn should be better here than the other players SD listed. Young and has a nice track record so far. And yeah, Devils sure as hell need solid young D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: What kind of big move are you looking for? Hamilton being signed to a big UFA deal? A trade for an established star? Just asking. I think most of the shopping this season gets done in the mid-tier aisle. If anything I think Fitz (who was obviously here at the time) looks at the PK acquisition and will be that much more cautious about making a move like that the next time...of course, there were signs that pointed to PK not being what he was, so hopefully if there was a deal that made plenty more sense, that Fitz wouldn't get cold feet, just because. Saw your link to Dunn just now...yeah, I could get behind that. Definitely didn't help that the last three guys on that acquisition list didn't help much...even though I agreed with most of Shero's trades, as we've been over, too many of them didn't work out. And we can't ever minimize how much Cory's from out-of-nowhere bottoming out really hurt. The bolded would certainly help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, DevsMan84 said: The bolded would certainly help. I think people are gunshy on trading for stars right now. We traded for Hall and basically that was a waste, in some people’s eyes. Getting someone locked up long term would be a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 45 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: As celebrated as Shero is, I think he clearly misjudged this rebuild. You don't trade assets to acquire Palmieri, Hall, Vats, Mueller, Johansson, Subban etc if you expect to still be picking in the top 5 for the next half decade when you could have just signed plugs. We still would have finished bottom 5 every year without those guys. I trust the scouts and drafting a lot more these days, but our only overall improvement is literally "we drafted a bunch of guys and got slapped around in the playoffs once" The Devils drafting is not the dumpster fire that it was in the 2000-2015 era, but I don't think it is good as it should be. A good scouting staff doesn't draft a guy who likely would have gone in the 2nd or 3rd round pick with their 20th overall pick. Also, don't even dare try to convince me that you would rather have Zacha, McLeod and Hischier over Rantanen, McAvoy and Makar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said: The bolded would certainly help. Sure, but which star, and do the Devils currently have enough to entice a team to deal? Not against the idea, just not sure if the potential pieces already here have shown enough or are considered to have enough upside to reel in a bigger fish yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, mfitz804 said: I think people are gunshy on trading for stars right now. We traded for Hall and basically that was a waste, in some people’s eyes. Getting someone locked up long term would be a different story. When we traded for Hall, we didn't have guys like Smith, Hischier or Hughes on the roster. With any trade for a star player in his prime would at least be playing with 2 out of those 3 that I mentioned. Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said: Sure, but which star, and do the Devils currently have enough to entice a team to deal? Not against the idea, just not sure if the potential pieces already here have shown enough or are considered to have enough upside to reel in a bigger fish yet. Eichel or Laine seem to be more available than not. I am 100% fine with giving up Hischier for either. I am fine with giving up Hughes for Eichel, but not Laine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: When we traded for Hall, we didn't have guys like Smith, Hischier or Hughes on the roster. With any trade for a star player in his prime would at least be playing with 2 out of those 3 that I mentioned. Eichel or Laine seem to be more available than not. I am 100% fine with giving up Hischier for either. I am fine with giving up Hughes for Eichel, but not Laine. Well Nico played with Hall year 1, but sure, we have additional pieces that might make it different. I personally still think that trade made sense, but things didn’t go as planned. I find Eichel intriguing, but am worried about his health. If he is legitimately hurt (rather than sitting out a BS season on a last place team), I wouldn’t want to risk one of our young players for 50% of what he used to be. Edited June 11, 2021 by mfitz804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said: The Devils drafting is not the dumpster fire that it was in the 2000-2015 era, but I don't think it is good as it should be. A good scouting staff doesn't draft a guy who likely would have gone in the 2nd or 3rd round pick with their 20th overall pick. Also, don't even dare try to convince me that you would rather have Zacha, McLeod and Hischier over Rantanen, McAvoy and Makar. Oh I agree. I think the scouting is improved, but I would definitely say there's plenty of room for improvement. Like you said for example, Muk would have been available later. He was on no ones draft board for the first round. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 minute ago, mfitz804 said: Well Nico played with Hall year 1, but sure, we have additional pieces that might make it different. I personally still think that trade made sense, but things didn’t go as planned. I find Eichel intriguing, but am worried about his health. If he is legitimately hurt (rather than sitting out a BS season on a last place team), I wouldn’t want to risk one of our young players for 50% of what he used to be. Keeping players like Hall depends a lot on how well the team is doing. Hall saw the Devils as a dumpster fire (rightfully so) and split. The hope is that by the time the star player's contract is up, the Devils will be good. As for the trade scenarios, that's why I would rather do Nico for Laine straight up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, DevsMan84 said: Keeping players like Hall depends a lot on how well the team is doing. Hall saw the Devils as a dumpster fire (rightfully so) and split. The hope is that by the time the star player's contract is up, the Devils will be good. As for the trade scenarios, that's why I would rather do Nico for Laine straight up. If I had to choose between the two, I would choose that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said: Oh I agree. I think the scouting is improved, but I would definitely say there's plenty of room for improvement. Like you said for example, Muk would have been available later. He was on no ones draft board for the first round. I still am wondering what pisses me off more with that pick; the stat nerds doing backflips to try to justify the pick by using some arbitrary "NHL ready" metric or that the Devils were using a 20th overall on a reach pick when they aren't in the position to make those kinds of picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Hamilton or Dunn and this team is making the playoffs. Dunn would probably cost a 2nd and a Boqvist. Hamilton would require a big time contract offer. We have the cap space and assets for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, devlman said: Hamilton or Dunn and this team is making the playoffs. Dunn would probably cost a 2nd and a Boqvist. Hamilton would require a big time contract offer. We have the cap space and assets for it. I’m sorry, you believe that we are one player away from being a playoff team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlman Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 15 minutes ago, mfitz804 said: I’m sorry, you believe that we are one player away from being a playoff team? With a really good defenseman, I do… so long as internal development continues at the pace we’ve seen. Also believe strong chance Pens, Caps, Rags are weaker next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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