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The 2021 Offseason Thread


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2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

We’ve been saying this verbatim for fvcking YEARS. Enough. THIS off-season I want tangible fvcking improvement. Not next. Not in two years. NOW.

we've had that. If you can't appreciate and realize that, thats on you and nobody else

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

we've had that. If you can't appreciate and realize that, thats on you and nobody else

I want improvement on the improvement. Fitz needs to sack up and make a big move this off-season. Period.

Edited by MadDog2020
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5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

We’ve been saying this verbatim for fvcking YEARS. Enough. THIS off-season I want tangible fvcking improvement. Not next. Not in two years. NOW.

I'm with you...to be clear, I'm not saying I'm super-enthusiastic about waiting...I just feel strongly that that's the Devils' plan, and SD has a point, in that it was going to take time to build up enough young assets that can either succeed here, or be dealt for another need.  I'm not quite sure that they have enough to work with yet...but it does feel like they're pretty close now.

The tangible improvement might very well come from a full healthy season of Nico, Jack taking more steps forward, etc.  I readily admit, if I don't see that (and others) improving next year, I'm going to start to wonder about this core.  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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4 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

We’ve been saying this verbatim for fvcking YEARS. Enough. THIS off-season I want tangible fvcking improvement. Not next. Not in two years. NOW.

I couldn't agree more. I am not expecting us to be "fixed" next season, but do something toward it. We basically hit reset last season, you can say all you want that the rebuild started 5 years ago or whatever, its just simply not the case. We made moves toward rebuilding (Hall, Vatanen) that wound up not being part of the puzzle, but rather means towards more rebuilding in that they brought back assets. 

I do not believe we are going to build a championship caliber team on drafting alone. Trades are going to have to be made, and pieces will have to be brought here and kept long term, not traded for more spare parts. I think if you get that accomplished, maybe you can make NJ look a little more attractive to free agents and you can get another start caliber guy or two.

And then we'll be on our way toward something. Just drafting guys, which you do every year as a matter of right, isn't "rebuilding" if you ask me, its just restocking. 

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15 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I want improvement on the improvement. Fitz needs to sack up and make a big move this off-season. Period.

 

13 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I'm with you...to be clear, I'm not saying I'm super-enthusiastic about waiting...I just feel strongly that that's the Devils' plan, and SD has a point, in that it was going to take time to build up enough young assets that can either succeed here, or be dealt for another need.  I'm not quite sure that they have enough to work with yet...but it does feel like they're pretty close now.

The tangible improvement might very well come from a full healthy season of Nico, Jack taking more steps forward, etc.  I readily admit, if I don't see that (and others) improving next year, I'm going to start to wonder about this core.  

we've already seen a ton of improvement. So i just don't understand the "we've seen nothing crowd"

Hell we got Sharangovich that we drafted a few years ago, who was on nobody's radar, come out and have a huge impact already. We had Smith coming in showing that he's indeed an NHL player capable of at the very least top 4 minutes, we have kuokkanen that we got for nothing basically coming in having an impact in the top 6. We have McLeod and Bastian who most kind of penned as busts, coming in and showing that they'll be a solid 4th line for a long time in the NHL. We have Zacha who also took a giant step this year, Jack took a big step this year too. We're certainly going to draft someone that "should" play at least top 4 this year too.

I mean, what more do you people expect exactly coming from a team who had basically nothing just a few years ago? Honestly. I really think most people never look at the big picture here, they want results NOW and that's it. They don't take in consideration where we came from and what it was gonna take and how long it was going to take to rebuild at a realistic rate.

This year we were the team with the most points coming out of players under... 25 or something, we were the youngest team in the league, and AGAIN, we've lost SO many games by just one freagin goal. Missing our captain all season and being a super young team making mistakes. That's all VERY important context to take in consideration, we were NOT a bottom 3 team in term of potential, not at all.

Edited by SterioDesign
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6 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

 

we've already seen a ton of improvement. So i just don't understand the "we've seen nothing crowd"

Hell we got Sharangovich that we drafted a few years ago, who was on nobody's radar, come out and have a huge impact already. We had Smith coming in showing that he's indeed an NHL player capable of at the very least top 4 minutes, we have kuokkanen that we got for nothing basically coming in having an impact in the top 6. We have McLeod and Bastian who most kind of penned as busts, coming in and showing that they'll be a solid 4th line for a long time in the NHL. We have Zacha who also took a giant step this year, Jack took a big step this year too. We're certainly going to draft someone that "should" play at least top 4 this year too.

I mean, what more do you people expect exactly coming from a team who had basically nothing just a few years ago? Honestly. I really think most people never look at the big picture here, they want results NOW and that's it. They don't take in consideration where we came from and what it was gonna take and how long it was going to take to rebuild at a realistic rate.

This year we were the team with the most points coming out of players under... 25 or something, we were the youngest team in the league, and AGAIN, we've lost SO many games by just one freagin goal. Missing our captain all season and being a super young team making mistakes. That's all VERY important context to take in consideration, we were NOT a bottom 3 team in term of potential, not at all.

What you are talking about is drafting well and/or getting lucky in the draft. That's something you are just supposed to do every year, whether you are the Stanley Cup Champion or last place. All that changes is your odds of getting a good player based on your pick position.

That's not a move you made to improve the state of your team, that's a compulsory selection process. You need to do more than just draft. 

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

 

we've already seen a ton of improvement. So i just don't understand the "we've seen nothing crowd"

Hell we got Sharangovich that we drafted a few years ago, who was on nobody's radar, come out and have a huge impact already. We had Smith coming in showing that he's indeed an NHL player capable of at the very least top 4 minutes, we have kuokkanen that we got for nothing basically coming in having an impact in the top 6. We have McLeod and Bastian who most kind of penned as busts, coming in and showing that they'll be a solid 4th line for a long time in the NHL. We have Zacha who also took a giant step this year, Jack took a big step this year too.

I mean, what more do you people expect exactly coming from a team who had basically nothing just a few years ago? Honestly. I really think most people never look at the big picture here, they want results NOW and that's it. They don't take in consideration where we came from and what it was gonna take and how long it was going to take to rebuild at a realistic rate.

I didn't say that we haven't seen any improvement at all, and NOWHERE did I say "we've seen nothing".  I was replying to MD2020 about what tangible improvements he might see with respect to next season...I do think it will come with young players continuing to develop and improve, like we saw with a number of them last season.   

The young talent pool is obviously much better than what was in house several years ago, with some of those players already having improved at the NHL level...that hasn't translated to good winning%s just yet, but yeah, obviously reason for hope.  

Stop being so eager to lump everyone who doesn't initially *appear* to see everything exactly as you do into some group of Veruca Salt-ish dummies who just want everything to happen now no matter what, with you presenting yourself as the guy who's somehow so much smarter and more reasonable than everyone else.  People here have been reasonably patient, and there's a ton of money to spend...I can see why some might want to think things could be moved along a little more quickly.  Like I said, I can wait another year for some more kids to either improve and/or stake their claim to spots on the team, and for others to improve their trade value.  Not sure how much longer we're supposed to wait after that...at some point, once you've accrued enough youth and have cap space to spare, it's time to make bigger moves...or at the very least, show that you're willing to be aggressive in trying.   

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3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

What you are talking about is drafting well and/or getting lucky in the draft. That's something you are just supposed to do every year, whether you are the Stanley Cup Champion or last place. All that changes is your odds of getting a good player based on your pick position.

That's not a move you made to improve the state of your team, that's a compulsory selection process. You need to do more than just draft. 

That's part of it. But if you want to rebuild you have to start with that.

That's the point of signing a 28 years old in his prime when 75% of your team is not "ready" yet. You're just going to waste those prime years for nothing and that player was just another patchwork that led to nothing other than filling a gap and not getting us further.

We're juuuuust getting to the point where our young guys should be able to bring in enough that we could mix it with a good mix of ufas in their prime and veterans, so that you actually have a chance. 

There's a huge difference between, actually making moves that can approve your team in order to achieve it's goal. And just making moves to make moves to get a little better now so that people feel better and feel like something is done.

Again, we're not talking about a team like the Rangers who decided to rebuild off of maybe half their roster to start over. We're a team who almost started from nothing and with nothing other than the draft to get better.

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5 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I didn't say that we haven't seen any improvement at all, and NOWHERE did I say "we've seen nothing".  I was replying to MD2020 about what tangible improvements he might see with respect to next season...I do think it will come with young players continuing to develop and improve, like we saw with a number of them last season.   

The young talent pool is obviously much better than what was in house several years ago, with some of those players already having improved at the NHL level...that hasn't translated to good winning%s just yet, but yeah, obviously reason for hope.  

Stop being so eager to lump everyone who doesn't initially *appear* to see everything exactly as you do into some group of Veruca Salt-ish dummies who just want everything to happen now no matter what, with you presenting yourself as the guy who's somehow so much smarter and more reasonable than everyone else.  People here have been reasonably patient, and there's a ton of money to spend...I can see why some might want to think things could be moved along a little more quickly.  Like I said, I can wait another year for some more kids to either improve and/or stake their claim to spots on the team, and for others to improve their trade value.  Not sure how much longer we're supposed to wait after that...at some point, once you've accrued enough youth and have cap space to spare, it's time to make bigger moves...or at the very least, show that you're willing to be aggressive in trying.   

hey lollipop muffin, where exactly did i say that you said that? Maybe stop being so eager to take things personal? I was adding to your post and also replying to MD2020. If you check, i quoted him directly.

And as i said many times before, i dont claim to be smarter than anyone here. But the hole we're in right now is what all of you guys was going to end up with with what you wanted the team to do back then and supported. So to hear so many being angry about the situation is just like "well what did you expect?"

Edited by SterioDesign
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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

hey lollipop muffin, where exactly did i say that you said that? Maybe stop being so eager to take things personal? I was adding to your post and also replying to MD2020.

 

You quote me and MD2020 and post "What do you people expect?"  Why wouldn't I think that what you posted wouldn't be directed to us?  

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4 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

You quote me and MD2020 and post "What do you people expect?"  Why wouldn't I think that what you posted wouldn't be directed to us?  

it was directed to him for sure. Which is why i said you people, cause he's not alone thinking that here

I mean it should have been obvious when the things you thought i was saying were not things you said at all? I didnt say anything about you and added to your point. Calm down

Edited by SterioDesign
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As celebrated as Shero is, I think he clearly misjudged this rebuild. You don't trade assets to acquire Palmieri, Hall, Vats, Mueller, Johansson, Subban etc if you expect to still be picking in the top 5 for the next half decade when you could have just signed plugs. We still would  have finished bottom 5 every year without those guys. 

I trust the scouts and drafting a lot more these days, but our only overall improvement is literally "we drafted a bunch of guys and got slapped around in the playoffs once"

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57 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I want improvement on the improvement. Fitz needs to sack up and make a big move this off-season. Period.

What kind of big move are you looking for?  Hamilton being signed to a big UFA deal?  A trade for an established star?  Just asking.  I think most of the shopping this season gets done in the mid-tier aisle.  If anything I think Fitz (who was obviously here at the time) looks at the PK acquisition and will be that much more cautious about making a move like that the next time...of course, there were signs that pointed to PK not being what he was, so hopefully if there was a deal that made plenty more sense, that Fitz wouldn't get cold feet, just because.

Saw your link to Dunn just now...yeah, I could get behind that.  

3 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

As celebrated as Shero is, I think he clearly misjudged this rebuild. You don't trade assets to acquire Palmieri, Hall, Vats, Mueller, Johansson, Subban etc if you expect to still be picking in the top 5 for the next half decade when you could have just signed plugs. We still would  have finished bottom 5 every year without those guys. 

I trust the scouts and drafting a lot more these days, but our only overall improvement is literally "we drafted a bunch of guys and got slapped around in the playoffs once"

Definitely didn't help that the last three guys on that acquisition list didn't help much...even though I agreed with most of Shero's trades, as we've been over, too many of them didn't work out.  And we can't ever minimize how much Cory's from out-of-nowhere bottoming out really hurt.  

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39 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

That's the point of signing a 28 years old in his prime when 75% of your team is not "ready" yet. You're just going to waste those prime years for nothing and that player was just another patchwork that led to nothing other than filling a gap and not getting us further.

So it looks like you are trying to free agents who might consider coming here. Last season’s roster of half AHL players won’t do that. 

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Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

What kind of big move are you looking for?  Hamilton being signed to a big UFA deal?  A trade for an established star?  Just asking.  I think most of the shopping this season gets done in the mid-tier aisle.  If anything I think Fitz (who was obviously here at the time) looks at the PK acquisition and will be that much more cautious about making a move like that the next time...of course, there were signs that pointed to PK not being what he was, so hopefully if there was a deal that made plenty more sense, that Fitz wouldn't get cold feet, just because.

Saw your link to Dunn just now...yeah, I could get behind that.  

Definitely didn't help that the last three guys on that acquisition list didn't help much...even though I agreed with most of Shero's trades, as we've been over, too many of them didn't work out.  And we can't ever minimize how much Cory's from out-of-nowhere bottoming out really hurt.  

If only Schneider and his tragic(ly) hip could have held out another year or so, it might have been perfect for Blackwood to take the reigns. Poor Kinkaid was just not able to handle what he got thrown into. 

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10 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

this is exactly the type of moves we've been making for years... mojo, subban, murray, gusev, johnnson, ... etc etc

Edited by SterioDesign
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11 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I trust the scouts and drafting a lot more these days, but our only overall improvement is literally "we drafted a bunch of guys and got slapped around in the playoffs once"

And regarding the first part, that doesn’t even impress me, you are supposed to draft the best you can every year. Every team does that every year. 

The second part doesn’t impress me at all. 

The moves Shero made, for the most part, didn’t pan out, or panned out for only a short while (minus Palmieri). I guess that happens. 

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

this is exactly the type of moves we've been making for years... 

I mean yeah, that’s not exactly a superstar move. If we can fill a gap with him and he works out, that’s good, but that can’t be our best move on D. 

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

And regarding the first part, that doesn’t even impress me, you are supposed to draft the best you can every year. Every team does that every year. 

The second part doesn’t impress me at all. 

The moves Shero made, for the most part, didn’t pan out, or panned out for only a short while (minus Palmieri). I guess that happens. 

Yeah it doesn't impress me either. Trading picks for players and then flipping the acquired players for more picks tells me something went wrong in the process. 

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7 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

this is exactly the type of moves we've been making for years... mojo, subban, murray, gusev, johnnson, ... etc etc

Dunn is 24 and an RFA at a position of extreme need that St. Louis can’t afford. It’s exactly the type of move we should be exploring.

Edited by MadDog2020
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1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Yeah it doesn't impress me either. Trading picks for players and then flipping the acquired players for more picks tells me something went wrong in the process. 

Unless you traded up and turned lower picks into higher picks, then yeah, something didn’t work out, or you are way earlier in your rebuild than  you thought. 

Just now, MadDog2020 said:

Dunn is 24 and an RFA they can’t afford. It’s exactly the type of move we should be exploring.

I agree, but NOT instead of pursuing a big name, stud defenseman. In addition to. 

We probably need 4 defensemen lol. 

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2 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Dunn is 24 and an RFA they can’t afford. It’s exactly the type of move we should be exploring.

i know and i don't disagree. I'm just saying we've been making these types of deal for years already

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

i know and i don't disagree. I'm just saying we've been making these types of deal for years already

I think Dunn is better than a lot of those other guys. Certainly younger.

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13 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

I think Dunn is better than a lot of those other guys. Certainly younger.

MoJo really looked like a nice grab at the time...was coming off a career year...the hope was obviously that he was going to continue to be that kind of player going forward.  

But yeah, I'd say that Dunn should be better here than the other players SD listed.  Young and has a nice track record so far.  And yeah, Devils sure as hell need solid young D.  

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