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The 2021 Offseason Thread


jagknife
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13 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I don't think PK had as much value as you think at the time of the deal...he still had a fortune coming to him for three more years, and his numbers had fallen off considerably in his final season in Nashville as it wore on.  Not that it matters now, but behind the scenes I think that trade was more ownership-driven...mostly because Shero struck me as a guy who always did his homework, and there was enough there with PK that I gotta think Shero wasn't fully sure about bringing him in.

I agree that you can't just will a top UFA into signing with your team simply because you have the money to do it...of course a lot more goes into it...I'm more saying I just don't want to hear the Devils sound like big things are coming, or talking about weaponizing cap space.  They can talk when they actually do that.  

Well it goes both ways. Them bringing this up might be cause they are continuously on the receiving end of comments that they don't want to spend and didn't sign any big UFAs and sh!t like that constantly.

And to be clear about PK, I personally knew his value even then and ive been pretty vocal about it lol. But his perceived value around the league was higher, many many people here were thrilled and calling it a steal

Edited by SterioDesign
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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Well it goes both ways. Them bringing this up might be cause they are continuously on the receiving end of comments that they don't want to spend and didn't sign any big UFAs and sh!t like that constantly.

i also personally knew his value wasn't as high as perceived around the league. But his perceived value around the league was higher, many many people here were thrilled and calling it a steal

Not going to do them much good if another offseason goes by and they don't spend much (even if I personally won't have much issue with it) and appear to be sitting on a pile of cap space.  They're better off just going with the usual GM speak:  "If there's a deal to be made that can improve our team, we'll always explore it."  

I think you misunderstood...I'm saying that I DON'T think PK's value was perceived as being all that high around the league at all...which I why I think Nashville was pleasantly surprised that the Devils swooped in and took on all of PK's money AND gave them a gaggle of assets (even if by and large no part of that package was much to get excited about).     

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24 minutes ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Really hoping this isn't true

 

Depending on the return, I'd consider it. First of all for the right side, he can score a lot of points, but also because I think Ristolainen clearly needs a change of scenery and could probably benefit from it. He's been a whipping boy for quite some time now in Buffalo, and at 2 years left at 5.4 mil per, I'd be curious to see what he could do with a fresh start. 

I also feel like the return wouldn't be huge, since his value has been lowered a lot these last few years. Maybe Buffalo even take Johnsson or Merkley straight up for him? 

Anyways, I don't think it would be all that bad. Interesting to think about though. 

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30 minutes ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

Really hoping this isn't true

 

This is because they have instituted a Rasmus Cap for 2022 and Buffalo has to reduce the amount of Rasmus on their roster. 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If those players were deemed that valuable to the Caps' and Vegas' cores, they're not dealt for picks...those teams find a way to keep those guys, and move others.  Not saying those kinds of deals 100% can't work out (Palms did), just that much of the time, there's a reason those players are made available for what doesn't seem like very much to give up.  Caps and GKs didn't miss a beat without those players.   

Don't agree on PK...Nashville didn't want to pay him for another three years (they knew he was on the decline) and were thrilled to cash in on what remained of PK's name...like I said, wasn't about getting loads of talent back.  It was about finding a team just clueless enough to think that they might be getting the younger version of PK and being willing to take on his entire salary to boot.  His salary obviously hasn't hurt, and I guess you can make the argument that the Devils were in a good position to take a gamble because they had so much room under their cap, but in PK's case, it almost feels like massively overpaying a meh-ish UFA just to spend some money.  That's why it doesn't feel like real weaponizing to me...another way to put it:  I feel like the team in the position to weaponize should be the one to take advantage of a cap-screwed team...in the PK deal, it feels like the Devils were ones taken advantage of.  

Like I said, I don't have any issues with the approach over the past few years, and retaining flexibility/cap room.  And dealing vets off for picks, when appropriate.  I'm not even going to be all that disappointed if Fitz doesn't go on much of a spending spree this offseason, or doesn't make any splashy moves (especially if he firmly believes that he's got a bunch of kids ready to take big step forward next season)...but I'm not the one talking about weaponizing cap space...the Devils are, and they're doing it in a way that makes it sound like bigger moves might be coming (and I agree in that I think not enough of the "asset tree" fruit is ripe enough yet, to get a bigger fish back in a deal)  To me, if they decide that this offseason is the time to go that route, ok, go for it.  But just do it then, instead of hinting at the possibility.         

FWIW, I don't consider the PK deal as "weaponizing cap space" simply because if the Predators were not interested in signing Duschene they wouldn't have had to trade for him.  This wasn't a case of Nashville trying to re-sign one of their own home-grown guys; they just wanted Duschene over PK.  Well they ended up getting their guy while off-loading a regressing player and getting players and picks in return for dumping said regressing player.  The more you look at it like that the more of a fleece job it is on the Devils.

To me, the "weaponizing cap space" term is thrown around as a marketing gimmick to sell to fans.  Like you said earlier it is to hype up the Devils off-season and unfortunately for us that typically leads to disappointment.

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31 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Not going to do them much good if another offseason goes by and they don't spend much (even if I personally won't have much issue with it) and appear to be sitting on a pile of cap space.  They're better off just going with the usual GM speak:  "If there's a deal to be made that can improve our team, we'll always explore it."  

I think you misunderstood...I'm saying that I DON'T think PK's value was perceived as being all that high around the league at all...which I why I think Nashville was pleasantly surprised that the Devils swooped in and took on all of PK's money AND gave them a gaggle of assets (even if by and large no part of that package was much to get excited about).     

Do you think the Devils will even put in offers to guys like Hamilton?  I have a feeling they won't even kick the tires.

Do you think the Devils will put out bold trade proposals outside the picks/spare parts for other teams crap and call it weaponizing cap space?  I doubt it.

I just feel like every off-season in the past 4-5 years is talk about saving all that cap space for something big someday, but as John Fogerty once sang, someday never comes.

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Cap space means nothing if you can't have a contending team anyway, we're rebuilding and waiting for the right opportunity to make moves that could make us better when the time is right. Signing guys just to sign guys and gap signings is only costing money and taking away time from our young guys we need to develop. If not you're just throwing money out of the window and potentially cock blocking moves that could make you better.

Sabres had 1.2m in cap space this year and finished last in the league. How many fans did you guys see go "well the team is terrible but at least we spent to the cap".

We were in that situation not long ago, no money to spend, a sh!t team and no hope at the horizon. Now we have hope, a decent core and the potential to buy if we can. I'm picking this scenario 10 times out of 10. I also don't think people understand how fast you can get into cap trouble if youre not careful. In a few seasons we have a bunch of guys who will need raises at the same time. 

Edited by SterioDesign
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49 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Do you think the Devils will even put in offers to guys like Hamilton?  I have a feeling they won't even kick the tires.

Do you think the Devils will put out bold trade proposals outside the picks/spare parts for other teams crap and call it weaponizing cap space?  I doubt it.

I just feel like every off-season in the past 4-5 years is talk about saving all that cap space for something big someday, but as John Fogerty once sang, someday never comes.

Re:  the bolded, I am going to be very disappointed if they go after Risto.  Seriously, fvck that.  I could see it:  the Isles' 2nd-rounder and some whatever middling "prospect" going the other way, for a guy who's a total "if", who by the end of the 2022-23 season we're counting down the days until he's gone...and has as much of a chance as being meh at best as he does of suddenly figuring everything out.  Great, technically it didn't cost much, but enough with that kind of move.  Bringing in Risto is as "same ol same ol" as it gets for me.  

Re:  the past 4-5 years, the Devils had to put together a semblance of a core...there wasn't one...of course, a couple of guys who looked like they could potentially be long-term pieces wound up being moved (Hall and Palms).  Next season, we'll see if the current batch of youth is capable of taking a collective step forward...if they are, but clearly need support, then I'm going to be all over the Devils if Fitz isn't out there at least trying to make a big move or two.  Basically, like I've said, given the kids, I can wait another year, and hopefully watch those kids start to truly come into their own.  I've brought this up, but remember, if those guys all progress and look like legit core pieces going forward, there's going to be a hell of a lot of raises to dole out the next couple of years.  Tons of RFAs, including some that are arb-eligible.  

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24 minutes ago, CarpathianForest said:

Cap space means nothing if no one wants to come here. I predict more Ryane Clowe situations. Guys who peaked that are in it for the money

Spicy take

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46 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Re:  the bolded, I am going to be very disappointed if they go after Risto.  Seriously, fvck that.  I could see it:  the Isles' 2nd-rounder and some whatever middling "prospect" going the other way, for a guy who's a total "if", who by the end of the 2022-23 season we're counting down the days until he's gone...and has as much of a chance as being meh at best as he does of suddenly figuring everything out.  Great, technically it didn't cost much, but enough with that kind of move.  Bringing in Risto is as "same ol same ol" as it gets for me.  

Re:  the past 4-5 years, the Devils had to put together a semblance of a core...there wasn't one...of course, a couple of guys who looked like they could potentially be long-term pieces wound up being moved (Hall and Palms).  Next season, we'll see if the current batch of youth is capable of taking a collective step forward...if they are, but clearly need support, then I'm going to be all over the Devils if Fitz isn't out there at least trying to make a big move or two.  Basically, like I've said, given the kids, I can wait another year, and hopefully watch those kids start to truly come into their own.  I've brought this up, but remember, if those guys all progress and look like legit core pieces going forward, there's going to be a hell of a lot of raises to dole out the next couple of years.  Tons of RFAs, including some that are arb-eligible.  

Unfortunately, a trade for Risto would fit the MO of this team based on the past few years worth of moves.

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4 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Unfortunately, a trade for Risto would fit the MO of this team based on the past few years worth of moves.

Dude looks like the villain in a 1980’s B-list karate movie that they thought was a good idea after Karate Kid, but never garnered much, if any, attention. 

 

771C6172-9934-44F6-A078-1A61E08F029F.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Dude looks like the villain in a 1980’s B-list karate movie that they thought was a good idea after Karate Kid, but never garnered much, if any, attention. 

 

771C6172-9934-44F6-A078-1A61E08F029F.jpeg

lol that's pretty accurate.

It's also one of the rare times that both the stat-nerd and anti-stats crowd both agree that he sucks from what I am seeing across different social media platforms.

We are almost assured to trade for him.

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Season 4 of Cobra Kai is on the way...

Oct-Dec timeframe is what I heard as release date.

And the fact that they are bringing back the Terry Silver character is enough to justify anyone to get a Netflix sub.

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5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Dude looks like the villain in a 1980’s B-list karate movie that they thought was a good idea after Karate Kid, but never garnered much, if any, attention. 

 

771C6172-9934-44F6-A078-1A61E08F029F.jpeg

The movie ends with Risto narrowing losing a fight to the "good guy", played by that Swayze dude...Don Swayze, that is:

MV5BMzQyN2I1Y2QtYTY3Ny00OGMwLTgxOWItNzgzN2NhZDJjMjUyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDgxNDMwNjY@._V1_.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The movie ends with Risto narrowing losing a fight to the "good guy", played by that Swayze dude...Don Swayze, that is:

MV5BMzQyN2I1Y2QtYTY3Ny00OGMwLTgxOWItNzgzN2NhZDJjMjUyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDgxNDMwNjY@._V1_.jpg

Obviously, because Patrick was NOT b-list….

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40 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Dude looks like the villain in a 1980’s B-list karate movie that they thought was a good idea after Karate Kid, but never garnered much, if any, attention. 

 

771C6172-9934-44F6-A078-1A61E08F029F.jpeg

To me he looks more like a dude from Hans Gruber's gang who missed his ride and couldn't make it to Nakatomi Tower

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3 hours ago, RunninWithTheDevil said:

If you're only going to offer me Risto (who hits FA in 2022), you better be taking Severson AND sending back a pick at least

Taking Severson? Why should the Devils be in the business of trading one of their best defenseman?

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If Rasmus Ristolainen is the Devils big fish this offseason, I'll be upset.

But if the Devils trade a 3rd round pick hoping they can turn him around (and, remember, he's a RHD -- something we need, badly) I'm all in for that. 

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1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

To me he looks more like a dude from Hans Gruber's gang who missed his ride and couldn't make it to Nakatomi Tower

Or the blonde dude from Street Fighter after a long, booze filled weekend?

 

CE38B23C-70FC-4149-9C23-6FF0A2D465EF.jpeg

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