The 2021 Offseason Thread

[Lateralous]

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

You’re missing a few guys that I’m pretty high on / the team is too:

First, please delete the name Butcher and remove even the slightest reference of him being part of the team’s future from this forum. Jk, only sort of.

At LEAST one of Shakir Mukhamadullin, Reilly Walsh, or Nikita Ohktoyuk figures to slot into a top-6 NHL defenseman role in the next few years. Walsh especially doesn’t get talked up enough, he’s a guy with an absolutely incredible shot and has a floor of a more skilled Damon Severson to me. 

Nolan Foote is the LW of the future. There is nothing not to love about the type of kid he is for the type of centers we have. He’s a shot first, shot second, shot third type player. He’s a giraffe who skates relatively well and his shot can be fvcking deadly if he continues to develop it. 

I’m also huge on the potential of Greame Clarke. He’s my prospect pet cat

I’ll add Foote to the 3rd line LW.   I covered the D when I said “whoever.”  No way I’m personally pencilling in any of those guys you listed as top 4 until I see it.  

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

Trading Nico now would also be selling low. He has just had an injury plagued season. His performance (by his standards) was up and down after both of his returns. You are not getting max value for him right now. 

Also I still don't think we have seen even close to Nico's full potential, there is a lot more to come from him. 

[DevsMan84]

5 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Trading Nico now would also be selling low. He has just had an injury plagued season. His performance (by his standards) was up and down after both of his returns. You are not getting max value for him right now. 

Also I still don't think we have seen even close to Nico's full potential, there is a lot more to come from him. 

Nico's ceiling is still unlikely as high as Eichel's ceiling.  I still think Nico's value is enough to where it will likely be the best offer on the table for a team like Buffalo.

I still don't fully understand not wanting elite-level players on a team that could use a boost in that department because he is not a swell person.  We have a team full of great guys who are looking at finishing 29th out of 31 teams this season and being a bottom 6 team in 4 out of the last 5 seasons.

FWIW, Nico being captain shouldn't matter yet.  Other teams have traded their captains without it tearing their team apart.

[Devil Dan 56]

8 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Nico's ceiling is still unlikely as high as Eichel's ceiling.  I still think Nico's value is enough to where it will likely be the best offer on the table for a team like Buffalo.

I still don't fully understand not wanting elite-level players on a team that could use a boost in that department because he is not a swell person.  We have a team full of great guys who are looking at finishing 29th out of 31 teams this season and being a bottom 6 team in 4 out of the last 5 seasons.

FWIW, Nico being captain shouldn't matter yet.  Other teams have traded their captains without it tearing their team apart.

Eichel is definitely a better player right now. I think a guaranteed 7 years of Nico is the issue. Eichel would be coming to a very similar situation to his current one and would most likely be out the door in 3 years. The question is, what else in addition to Nico will Buffalo want, and will this team be able to compete in the next 3 years with Eichel but without Nico plus whatever else goes?

It also sends a pretty negative message to the locker room to say "this is the guy, he's the captain, he's the leader" and then get rid of him less than a year later. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Devil Dan 56

[DevsMan84]

17 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

I can understand not parting with Hughes for Eichel as his upside is higher. But Nico? In theory, that I would have to do. You would be taking a chance that Nico might turn into what you already know Eichel is. 

BUT

Is it worth it to give up Nico for 4 years of Eichel? You have to assume he isn’t going to re-sign because 1) most don’t, and 2) we may not be his best chance to win 4 years from now. 

It's a risk for sure, but it's better than going back to trading away spare parts and picks for players who seem to be exiting their prime (Subban) or other team's most expendable players (Johnsson, Johansson).  The team has to swing for the fences eventually since help via UFA is unlikely to come anytime soon.

The thought with Eichel is that by the time his contract is up, the Devils will be good enough to make it real hard for him to leave.

[Devilsfan118]

Yeah I think slapping that C on Nico's sweater pretty much confirmed he won't be used as trade bait.

[DevsMan84]

1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Eichel is definitely a better player right now. I think a guaranteed 7 years of Nico is the issue. Eichel would be coming to a very similar situation to his current one and would most likely be out the door in 3 years. The question is, what else in addition to Nico will Buffalo want, and will this team be able to compete in the next 3 years with Eichel but without Nico plus whatever else goes?

It also sends a pretty negative message to the locker room to say "this is the guy, he's the captain, he's the leader" and then get rid of him less than a year later. 

I would be willing to give up next year's first rounder.  We will likely not be good, but you would figure a guy like Eichel along with the rest of the pieces would prevent us from picking in the top 5 or 6.  If they want someone else on the current roster or even one of our prospects I would be ok.

I am not discounting this a huge risk.  However, the Devils will have to take a big risk if they want to move forward.  The past 5-6 years of safe moves have lead us to being a lottery team for all but one of those seasons.  If we get Eichel, he would be the most talented player the Devils have ever had since Kovalchuk (I know he bolted, but he did help drag this team to the SCF in 2012 on a bad back).

I also think we are looking way too much into the whole trading your captain away sends a bad message.  I don't think it makes nearly as much of a difference if and how it happens.  Rangers traded their captain at the 2014 deadline and they made the finals that year.

[DevsMan84]

Just now, Devilsfan118 said:

Yeah I think slapping that C on Nico's sweater pretty much confirmed he won't be used as trade bait.

If that is all that would prevent Fitz from trading him away to make the team better then I want Fitz fired immediately.

[mfitz804]

All of these criticisms of Fitz give me minor anxiety every time I read them until I realize its not me. 

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

The thought with Eichel is that by the time his contract is up, the Devils will be good enough to make it real hard for him to leave.

Just like Hall, right?

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

That worked out perfectly with Taylor Hall.

Shero admitted that he never made a formal offer to Hall.  Whether reason he had (likely he was concerned about Hall's knee), it sounded like there was likely lukewarm interest on both sides.

If we get Eichel and he is still producing and healthy when his contract is up, I can imagine then the Devils would be far more interested in retaining his services.  Then again, who knows as I don't own a crystal ball.  Either way, I still think it is worth the risk.

[mfitz804]

10 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Shero admitted that he never made a formal offer to Hall.  Whether reason he had (likely he was concerned about Hall's knee), it sounded like there was likely lukewarm interest on both sides.

I want to say again that Hall said he wasn’t prepared to talk about it. Making an offer to a guy who says that would really eviscerate your negotiating position. 

Larsson for Hall with a chance to re-sign I was ok with. Nico for Eichel makes me nervous. 

[devlman]

Nico is also two years younger, which is two years closer aligned with the age of our  core/prospects.  Eichel is good but he’s a loser. Would rather win with our homegrown boys than trade them away. Besides, the final difference between the two players at the end of the day won’t be all that significant.

[devlman]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

All of these criticisms of Fitz give me minor anxiety every time I read them until I realize its not me. 

Fitz is a clueless Jackoff 

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, devlman said:

Fitz is a clueless Jackoff 

I mean that’s just mean from a guy who is a Devils fan and can’t even spell “Devl”. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

To all...

According to Capfriendly, Nico is signed to exactly ONE year more than Eichel:

Eichel (five more years):  Jack Eichel - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Nico (six more years):  Nico Hischier - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I won't be the slightest bit upset if Nico is still here (like I said, like him a lot, and like devlman just alluded to, he's "ours", and I'd love to see it happen for him here), but a guy like Eichel is enough to make me at least consider the possibility of thinking long and hard about a deal involving Nico for Eichel.  Jack's a hell of an offensive player.  

My two beefs with Nico to date:

1A) He misses games at the worst possible times (especially since it always seems like he's on a roll when he gets hurt)

1B) It seems to take him a while to get back to where he was, once he comes back.

That being said, man would I love love LOVE him to play 80+ games and see if he can put it all together, without any setbacks.  

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[devlman]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not discounting this a huge risk.  However, the Devils will have to take a big risk if they want to move forward.  The past 5-6 years of safe moves have lead us to being a lottery team for all but one of those seasons.  If we get Eichel, he would be the most talented player the Devils have ever had since Kovalchuk (I know he bolted, but he did help drag this team to the SCF in 2012 on a bad back).

I don’t agree with the logic that safe moves in the past now means we must take a highly risky move to go forward. The whole point of making safe moves w careful drafting and patience is so that drastic moves don’t have to be done down the line. 

[devlman]

1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

I mean that’s just mean from a guy who is a Devils fan and can’t even spell “Devl”. 

Sorry, I meant the GM!

[mfitz804]

5 minutes ago, devlman said:

Nico is also two years younger, which is two years closer aligned with the age of our  core/prospects.  Eichel is good but he’s a loser. Would rather win with our homegrown boys than trade them away. Besides, the final difference between the two players at the end of the day won’t be all that significant.

I hope that’s right. I just ran these numbers:

Nico through his first 4 seasons has played 230 games. He has an average of 52 points per 82 games. 

Eichel played 209 games in his first 3 seasons. He had an average of 69 points per 82 games. 

Add to that, Nico’s development has probably been impacted by injuries, I mean can you even really count this season??

Maybe they aren’t as far apart talent-wise as it would seem at first glance. 

1 minute ago, devlman said:

Sorry, I meant the GM!

See, it’s really confusing. 😉

[DevsMan84]

3 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

To all...

According to Capfriendly, Nico is signed to exactly ONE year more than Eichel:

Eichel (five more years):  Jack Eichel - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Nico (six more years):  Nico Hischier - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I won't be the slightest bit upset if Nico is still here (like I said, like him a lot, and like devlman just alluded to, he's "ours", and I'd love to see it happen for him here), but a guy like Eichel is enough to make me at least consider the possibility of thinking long and hard about a deal involving Nico for Eichel.  Jack's a hell of an offensive player.  

My two beefs with Nico to date:

1A) He misses games at the worst possible times (especially since it always seems like he's on a roll when he gets hurt)

1B) It seems to take him a while to get back to where he was, once he comes back.

That being said, man would I love love LOVE him to play 80+ games and see if he can put it all together, without any setbacks.  

 

I like Nico a lot.  He may just be my favorite player on this team.  However, I am tired of being bottom feeders once again and I don't want to go through a 3rd or 4th offseason where we hear the "weaponizing cap space" line from management only to get the likes of Andreas Johnsson.

I am only using Nico for Eichel because him or Hughes would likely be the ask from Buffalo and he would be the less painful of the two.

[mfitz804]

6 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

To all...

According to Capfriendly, Nico is signed to exactly ONE year more than Eichel

Well that certainly narrows the gap. That went really quick, I thought Nico was 7 and Eichel had 4. 

6 and 5 makes that decision harder. I think you would have a better shot at signing Nico at the end. But will Nico be a PPG player in the next 2-3 years?

[DevsMan84]

5 minutes ago, devlman said:

I don’t agree with the logic that safe moves in the past now means we must take a highly risky move to go forward. The whole point of making safe moves w careful drafting and patience is so that drastic moves don’t have to be done down the line. 

We won't get help (or at least enough to matter much) from UFA.  That means we either have to win our way through trades or hit a lot on our picks.  We do have some nice prospects in our pipeline, but few that I see that are surefire hits.  What if two of either Holtz, Mercer or Foote do not work out?

The trades we have made in the past 5 years have so far been pretty safe and often to our advantage.  However, what have they resulted in?  We have some picks and some bottom 6 players for the most part.  If the team really wants to move forward, we need to make a move for a guy who is a surefire talent that will improve our team.

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Well that certainly narrows the gap. That went really quick, I thought Nico was 7 and Eichel had 4. 

6 and 5 makes that decision harder. I think you would have a better shot at signing Nico at the end. But will Nico be a PPG player in the next 2-3 years?

5 years is a long time in hockey where a lot of things can change.  I think it is foolish to worry about what may happen then to nix any idea of improving your team now, especially since we are far from cap hell.

[MadDog2020]

26 minutes ago, devlman said:

Nico is also two years younger, which is two years closer aligned with the age of our  core/prospects.  Eichel is good but he’s a loser. Would rather win with our homegrown boys than trade them away. Besides, the final difference between the two players at the end of the day won’t be all that significant.

Agreed. Something about Eichel rubs me the wrong way. Just seems like a douche.

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

Agreed. Something about Eichel rubs me the wrong way. Just seems like a douche.

The other thing is, obviously, he’s coming from a losing team. If you think he would be happy here, that’s probably not the case. And it’s not like his being in Buffalo turned them into a winner, they did a lot of losing with him. 

A guy already disenfranchised with his former club, probably not what you want in your locker room full of guys that have barely started puberty. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by mfitz804