The 2021 Offseason Thread

[Crisis]

Some key dates coming up:

Saturday, July 17th - Protection list deadline

Wednesday, July 21st - Expansion Draft

Friday, July 23rd - NHL Entry Draft Round 1

Saturday July 24th - NHL Entry Draft Rounds 2-7

Wednesday, July 28th - Free Agency opens

[mfitz804]

9 minutes ago, Crisis said:

Kyle Palmieri is dangerously close to this

Was he a top-10 wing?

1 minute ago, Crisis said:

Some key dates coming up:

Saturday, July 17th - Protection list deadline

Wednesday, July 21st - Expansion Draft

Friday, July 23rd - NHL Entry Draft Round 1

Saturday July 24th - NHL Entry Draft Rounds 2-7

Wednesday, July 28th - Free Agency opens

Thanks for this, I would definitely forget all of these dates without a reminder. 

[SterioDesign]

Yeah few years ago i wanted Gaudreau but right now he's too much of what we have already. And seeing how guys like this like Marner can disappear in the playoffs. I'd rather trust the process with the kid OR get someone that fits our lineup a bit better in term of style of play and position

[mfitz804]

Just now, SterioDesign said:

Yeah few years ago i wanted Gaudreau but right now he's too much of what we have already. And seeing how guys like this like Marner can disappear in the playoffs. I'd rather trust the process with the kid OR get someone that fits our lineup a bit better in term of style of play and position

He’s what we hope we have. None of our players are on Johnny’s level this far. Guy has had a great career and 49 points in 56 games on a team only slightly better than ours doesn’t exactly scream “he’s in decline”. 

That said, he’s not a guy I would trade our future for, and I think the cost would be too high for it to be a good idea for us. But I for sure wouldn’t mind having him. 

[Crisis]

10 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Was he a top-10 wing?

Maybe?  He was 6th in goals in 2015-2016.  12th in 2016-2017.  18th in 2017-2018.  14th in 2018-2019.  9th in 2019-2020.  And 45th in his age 30 season.

Hence dangerously close.

Or perhaps "Almost" is a term you are more comfortable with?

Edited July 8, 2021 by Crisis

[SterioDesign]

6 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

He’s what we hope we have. None of our players are on Johnny’s level this far. Guy has had a great career and 49 points in 56 games on a team only slightly better than ours doesn’t exactly scream “he’s in decline”. 

That said, he’s not a guy I would trade our future for, and I think the cost would be too high for it to be a good idea for us. But I for sure wouldn’t mind having him. 

Yeah i'd sign him if he wanted to come here and that i didnt think he'd decline or complicate our cap in the long run. But i wouldnt trade all those assets for him

[Lateralous]

3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

comparing Kyle Palmieri to Johnny Gaudreau once again makes me wonder if there’s a different Gaudreau in the league you guys are thinking of.

Freddie!  He scored like 3 or 4 goals in the 2017 finals for Nashville after Ryan Johansen had a freak leg injury.    Not sure what happened to him.  Maybe he turned 30.   

Edited July 8, 2021 by Lateralous

[vadvlfan]

Whenever a "juicy" name comes up in a rumor on Twitter, Devils fans get excited and justify going hard after them, (w/ draft picks platers they think we don't need) and then predict line combos. And then rolling out the parade floats. No thanks to Tarasenko, Gaudreau, & the other players who's best days are behind them.

[mfitz804]

11 minutes ago, MB3 said:

comparing Kyle Palmieri to Johnny Gaudreau once again makes me wonder if there’s a different Gaudreau in the league you guys are thinking of.

He’s closer to Goodrow than Gaudreau. 

[mfitz804]

16 minutes ago, Crisis said:

Maybe?  He was 6th in goals in 2015-2016.  12th in 2016-2017.  18th in 2017-2018.  14th in 2018-2019.  9th in 2019-2020.  And 45th in his age 30 season.

Hence dangerously close.

Or perhaps "Almost" is a term you are more comfortable with?

Yep, average those and it’s 17.33. We’ll call that “almost top 10”. 

[mfitz804]

12 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah i'd sign him if he wanted to come here and that i didnt think he'd decline or complicate our cap in the long run. But i wouldnt trade all those assets for him

Everyone declines, that’s just a fact. Bringing in a guy who scores 0.875 PPG would at least look like you’re trying. As I have said before, a few guys like that and maybe you can attract free agents or guys will waive NMC’s to be a part of your team. 

But definitely not for all of those assets. 

[mfitz804]

3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

This team has to start winning hockey games in the near future, for the sake of everyone. Johnny Hockey helps achieve that.

Agree totally, though the cost has to be right. 

[Devilsfan118]

MB3 spitting absolute truth in this thread.

100% agree on all points.

[devlman]

Nolan Foote spent a lot of time in the AHL last season because he was hurt pretty much all of 2019 and needed game experience beyond Juniors. Nobody is concerned about the pace of his timeline or questioning his status as a high prospect.

And again, no one is saying Johnny isn’t a good player now. The issue is the cost of acquisition + the type of player he will be beyond year 1.

Edited July 8, 2021 by devlman

[Crisis]

That's not what we're saying, homie.  We're saying that there is a high likelihood that you don't get another 100 point season from him.  Especially in 2 seasons when the Devils are projecting to be hitting their stride.  And when that time comes it will be similar to KP getting streaky.  Except JG will be way more expensive and potentially prohibitive to signing FAs that are 27 years old then.

[SterioDesign]

5 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Everyone’s favorite thing to do: “yes I want a 0.9PPG player in his prime, but no I don’t want to trade good stuff for him.” That package only works *because* he’s a to-be UFA. 

You are all wildly overvaluing what Nolan Foote (~4th best Devils prospect who’s dangerously close to becoming a “why isn’t he playing in the show?” AHLer), Graeme Clarke (fringe top-10 prospect), and a very-late first round pick brings back.

The fact is, if the Devils acquire Gaudreau, they find themselves with very little need for two offense-only prospects. Those guys  aren’t 3rd-line, powerplay unit guys. They’re in the top-6 or they’re in the AHL. Good luck finding a spot in the top-6 for them.

Maybe cause some learned that you should always consider the short and long term impact of making win-now moves and throw away future assets. And if you're going to make a win-now move, and when you're trading 3 players for one. It better be a good move that pans out. 

[Devil Dan 56]

I could see the Isles first and Foote plus something else going for Gaudreau, but management seems really high on Clarke. I think they'd try to include someone else instead. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Devil Dan 56

[mfitz804]

Am I wrong or does Gaudreau have 1 year left on his current contract?

Are we assuming an extension is part of the package, or are we talking about giving away two prospects and a first round pick for 5 months of a guy who won’t resign here anyway?

[Guadana]

30 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Everyone’s favorite thing to do: “yes I want a 0.9PPG player in his prime, but no I don’t want to trade good stuff for him.” That package only works *because* he’s a to-be UFA. 

You are all wildly overvaluing what Nolan Foote (~4th best Devils prospect who’s dangerously close to becoming a “why isn’t he playing in the show?” AHLer), Graeme Clarke (fringe top-10 prospect), and a very-late first round pick brings back.

The fact is, if the Devils acquire Gaudreau, they find themselves with very little need for two offense-only prospects. Those guys  aren’t 3rd-line, powerplay unit guys. They’re in the top-6 or they’re in the AHL. Good luck finding a spot in the top-6 for them.

Man. Its a losing strategy for us. This is true. I understand you are very high on him. It`s ok. But we are not his team. Especially we are not the team to make this kind of trade for Johnny. He will make this team better for year. May be for 2-3 years, but it will not make this team completly better. May be make it worser after 3-4 years. You are fighting proudly, but in the wrong direction. Germany on the right, France on the left, do not be confused.

If you  really want him - trade him for Zacha and ask to sign long term with him before the trade. You can add 1st islanders pick. That`s easy.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Guadana

[Crisis]

3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Who is “we”? I directly quoted someone who said “best days are behind him”.

Johnny Hockey won’t be “Kyle Palmieri streaky” because they are incomparable players. Even just wildly different talent levels aside; Gaudreau is an elite hockey player because of his vision and because of his hands. He is exceptionally talented and creative, he fits today’s game with his speed and awareness. Kyle Palmieri is a “if he isn’t hitting the back of the net, he literally is useless” player. He doesn’t do anything else. He’s slow, he turns the puck over, he has the vision of Colin White and absolute bricks for hands. Kyle Palmieri is streaky because he’ll find twine 4 games in a row and then disappear for two weeks. That’s an incomparable hockey player. 

So cut the unicorn bullsh!t, you’re better than that. Who is this elite first-line right winger the Devils can acquire who is younger than Gaudreau? And if this unicorn exists, give me a trade package that doesn’t make you want to vomit. Because that player that you’re thinking about probably costs Holtz, Hughes or Hischier to get the ball rolling.

So for we, I'm going to pull devlman and vadvlfan (holy fvck, for years i thought your name was Vlad) into my corner who both think that the decline is closer than you may think.  SD seems to be on the fence but I don't think I could commit to him.  I would also like to call CR to the bench to look up some splits for me and show how streaky JG can get,

I understand that they are different types of hockey players but I am not comparing their skills and talents.  All I'm saying is that by the time the Devils are ready to have an elite 1st line wing in his prime, JG could very well be invisible half the season and carrying an anchor of a contract that you went balls-in on because he scored 102pts 2 season prior.  Now you have to pay Jack and whoever else is due for a big raise and try to tetris it around the albatross that is Johnny Hockey making 8x$10m or whatever you think "an elite hockey player because of his vision and because of his hands. He is exceptionally talented and creative, he fits today’s game with his speed and awareness" would need to stay in Jersey.

I know what he is, the issue is what he is going to be.  And we both don't know but I'm probably right.

As far as unicorns go, I'm not even looking into that for another season or two.  Whether or not they get a new expensive toy next summer or the one after depends on how they play this season and next,

[Guadana]

3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

A sign-and-trade of Johnny Gaudreau costs infinitely, infinitely more than Pavel Zacha and a late first round pick. 

Brendan Brisson, BraydenTracey and Nicolas Beaudain are the last 3 players to be picked in the Islanders slot in the past three drafts. None of those names even sound like real players. 

Stop overvaluing late first round picks, stop overvaluing our prospects, and stop undervaluing the cost to acquire legitimate NHL stars in their prime and then tell me what side of the fight I stand on. 

Johnny G will not sign with Calgary. Its a fact. They can get PZ after his best season with one year of cheap contract, and he will be RFA after that. He is top-6 player in any team this year. If they want more, they will not get it. 1st islanders pick is just a cherry on the pie.

btw we dont need in Geadreau for a long term. One year? Why not. But not for Foote and Clarke. And opportunity to draft defensive depth wich we are pretty lack. Or backup goalie candidate.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Guadana

[devlman]

By the way, Calgary declines Foote/Clarke + 1st anyway. They’re going to want an NHL-ready top-six forward in return as they are not rebuilding (if they were, Tkachuk would be gone). So unless you’re willing to part w one of our core top 6, this is all moot.

[devlman]

8 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I will bet you a $10 donation to this website that whoever trades for Johnny Gaudreau (if it happens before the season) will send significantly more than Pavel Zacha and a late first. 

In fact, I’d double down and say even a midseason acquisition, so a true rental, of Gaudreau costs more than that. 

So are you saying Foote+Clarke (two prospects you’ve bashed) are worth more than Zacha? I’ll remember to use the search function next time you act like you’re the only Zacha supporter.

[Guadana]

13 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I will bet you a $10 donation to this website that whoever trades for Johnny Gaudreau (if it happens before the season) will send significantly more than Pavel Zacha and a late first. 

In fact, I’d double down and say even a midseason acquisition, so a true rental, of Gaudreau costs more than that. 

You actully sain that team X who will trade for Johnny G will send more than U25 top-6 player on RFA deal who can score 18+ goals\50+points and late first round pick? Interesting deal, I`m in. If the price will higher I will donate 10 $ to this website. 
If team will trade top4 defenseman - it`s an analog of PZ. Players like Will "i`m a complete sh1t defenseman" Butcher doesnt count as a better player, if he(or another softy playmaker) will hit 35-40-43 points.40+ points from defenseman with 2.5+ hits 3+BS and 2.5+ takeaways per60 is a better compansation. 24+ goals\62+ points per 82 games player is a better compansation, if he is future RFA.
Deal. And good luck.

btw Brendan Brisson has enough potential to play NHL hockey

Edited July 8, 2021 by Guadana

[mfitz804]

39 minutes ago, MB3 said:

We’re talking about trading for 1 year of a top-10 winger in the NHL without trading Holtz, Hughes or Hischier. 

The Devils can outbid anyone. They can make this trade and go balls-in on an extension. I don’t care if he’s the biggest flyers fan in the world; he grew up in NJ so we obviously would be on his list of potential destinations regardless. A year playing with Hughes back home, plus a paycheck that makes his agent say “oh holy sh!t” adds a major piece to this franchise that they otherwise wouldn’t get. 

We’re not the Rangers or the Leafs. Nobody fvcking wants to play here voluntarily. So, trade for him, let him meet the guys and give yourself the best chance at locking him in for a long fvcking time.

Sounds like a terrible idea that is bound for failure, based on recent history of guys not wanting to sign here and the fact we aren’t expected to be competitive next year. You are going to give away Foote/Clarke plus a 1st round pick, and then trade JG at the deadline for whatever, at best a prospect and another late 1st. 

This move doesn’t help our team without an extension, in my opinion. The whole “get him here and maybe he will extend” doesn’t work. Look under Hall, Taylor. It doesn’t matter how much money we have. 

The other reason I think none of this will happen is that the JG trade has been rumored just about every offseason for the last 3-4 years and it never happens.