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Trade: Ryan Graves to NJ


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Really like this trade. Absolute cannon of a shot. Plays a ton of minutes on one of the best teams in the league. Hits people, hard. 

It’s the Islanders 2nd, so it’s basically an early 3rd. All around very good trade for both teams. 

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9 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Really like this trade. Absolute cannon of a shot. Plays a ton of minutes on one of the best teams in the league. Hits people, hard. 

It’s the Islanders 2nd, so it’s basically an early 3rd. All around very good trade for both teams. 

That’s a good perspective on it. 

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Maltisev was going to have a tough (if not impossible) time ever seeing the ice with Mercer and Holtz on their way up (and Maltisev’s game being totally incapable of playing bottom 6 minutes.) 

We traded a 77 year old (check notes for me?) Andy Greene for two years of a 26 year old Graves. If you’re unhappy about this you’re a grouch.

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38 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

#savesubban

The rest of this defense is going to get exposed even worse if they have to take the minutes Subban plays and gets beat up by the fans for.    

I'm perfectly fine giving more minutes to Smith and Severson.  Hopefully Graves is decent.  That only leaves 3 guys left to give minutes to who might not be ready for it, but frankly, I think our defense is so new/young that we just don't know if they're ready for it.  Who cares if Bahl, Siegenthaler, or Jacobs aren't world-beaters?  I'd rather them learn on the job and potentially at least try to get better, rather than have Subban out there earning 9M and watching his career decline in front of our eyes.

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I really like Maltsev. He is big, good skater and very tough player. He was great in puck battles, great one on one player. Best take away\per game result in etire league. This is what devils need from 3rd line center. He was better one from duo him and Boqvist.
But this is how you get players like Graves. This is a good trade. Good job, Fitz. This is what devils need from Fitz to do in Seattle draft situation. Our defensive line is a weak and it is a good step.

Hope Boqvist will be better forechecker, or Moynihan and Pytlik will develope into the good bottom nhl players.

Edited by Guadana
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I can absolutely see Seattle taking Subban now, and — if that’s the case — I’d be disappointed. He isn’t the PK Subban of old, but he’s a good solid hockey player and shouldn’t simply be replaced by a guy like Siegenthaler or a bleh UFA. 

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2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I can absolutely see Seattle taking Subban now, and — if that’s the case — I’d be disappointed. He isn’t the PK Subban of old, but he’s a good solid hockey player and shouldn’t simply be replaced by a guy like Siegenthaler or a bleh UFA. 

I agree that someone like Siegenthaler, or any of the other young D-men on our roster for that matter, probably aren't as good as Subban is now, and maybe won't ever reach the level or talent that he was at his peak, but what is he really to us now, and in the future?  I know people say he logs a lot of minutes...but you mean to tell me that for literally one season we couldn't give those minutes to some young guys?  I just don't buy it, or see the harm in it.  People are acting like the best defenders just immediately step on the ice as the best defenders.  Sure, there are some guys out there who have done that, but in the majority of cases, d-men actually become great players by, you know, actually playing.  If they log a ton of minutes and it's hard on them and they get burnt a bit, so what?  That's part of the growing process.  

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42 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I'm perfectly fine giving more minutes to Smith and Severson.  Hopefully Graves is decent.  That only leaves 3 guys left to give minutes to who might not be ready for it, but frankly, I think our defense is so new/young that we just don't know if they're ready for it.  Who cares if Bahl, Siegenthaler, or Jacobs aren't world-beaters?  I'd rather them learn on the job and potentially at least try to get better, rather than have Subban out there earning 9M and watching his career decline in front of our eyes.

Severson needs to be slotted properly, so I don't agree that you just give him more minutes. He's a perfectly good 2nd pairing D that constantly gets asked to do too much. 

Smith isn't a factor in the expansion draft discussion due to age, except that I don't think we want him slotting up yet either.   

The names you listed could easily be Helgeson, Gelinas and Urbom in three years.   I would personally rather us keep Subban and aim to improve this year but if sh!t goes south, I think we can get a decent pick for him at the trade deadline when the salary isn't a huge issue.   The other three could easily just waste away.  

Edited by Lateralous
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50 minutes ago, MB3 said:

We traded a 77 year old (check notes for me?) Andy Greene

He was only 65, but skated like a 77 year old. 

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34 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I I know people say he logs a lot of minutes...but you mean to tell me that for literally one season we couldn't give those minutes to some young guys?  I just don't buy it, or see the harm in it.  

Honestly, I think the whole “he plays a lot of minutes” things is kind of stupid. Every team has at least one defenseman who “eats a lot of minutes”. I don’t think that it’s as uncommon as people make it out to be.

Subban is the only guy who can play a lot of minutes? No other defenseman on our roster, and no prospect in our system, nobody available by trade, no free agents, only Subban. If he’s gone we don’t know what to do to cover all of those minutes?

I don’t buy any of it. I think that’s just what people say when a guy isn’t really great anymore but still plays a lot. 

 

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3 minutes ago, CarpathianForest said:

This is excellent for us. Graves was a plus 15 during the season and is a plus 59 over his short NHL career

Led the league in +/- in 2019-20 too. 

Edited by MadDog2020
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4 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Honestly, I think the whole “he plays a lot of minutes” things is kind of stupid. Every team has at least one defenseman who “eats a lot of minutes”. I don’t think that it’s as uncommon as people make it out to be.

Subban is the only guy who can play a lot of minutes? No other defenseman on our roster, and no prospect in our system, nobody available by trade, no free agents, only Subban. If he’s gone we don’t know what to do to cover all of those minutes?

I don’t buy any of it. I think that’s just what people say when a guy isn’t really great anymore but still plays a lot. 

 

Sure you can give those minutes to other guys. Which can easily result in us getting caved in even worse than we already do, and leave our young goaltender (who was very up and down last season) to get completely shelled…

There’s a reason a veteran coach like Ruff was giving Subban the kind of minutes he did. 

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7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Honestly, I think the whole “he plays a lot of minutes” things is kind of stupid. Every team has at least one defenseman who “eats a lot of minutes”. I don’t think that it’s as uncommon as people make it out to be.

Subban is the only guy who can play a lot of minutes? No other defenseman on our roster, and no prospect in our system, nobody available by trade, no free agents, only Subban. If he’s gone we don’t know what to do to cover all of those minutes?

I don’t buy any of it. I think that’s just what people say when a guy isn’t really great anymore but still plays a lot. 

 

Plays a lot because some of the others are even worse so there's that. 

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1 hour ago, MB3 said:

I can absolutely see Seattle taking Subban now, and — if that’s the case — I’d be disappointed. He isn’t the PK Subban of old, but he’s a good solid hockey player and shouldn’t simply be replaced by a guy like Siegenthaler or a bleh UFA. 

I'm not convinced of that but really depends on who else is available for them to take and their contracts. I haven't been paying to attention it but 9 million ties up a lot quickly. 

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3 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

I'm not convinced of that but really depends on who else is available for them to take and their contracts. I haven't been paying to attention it but 9 million ties up a lot quickly. 

no it doesn’t. they’ll struggle to reach the floor. 

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28 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Honestly, I think the whole “he plays a lot of minutes” things is kind of stupid. Every team has at least one defenseman who “eats a lot of minutes”. I don’t think that it’s as uncommon as people make it out to be.

Subban is the only guy who can play a lot of minutes? No other defenseman on our roster, and no prospect in our system, nobody available by trade, no free agents, only Subban. If he’s gone we don’t know what to do to cover all of those minutes?

I don’t buy any of it. I think that’s just what people say when a guy isn’t really great anymore but still plays a lot. 

 

Plays a lot of minutes because Lindy Ruff is smarter than you are and plays his best defenseman the most minutes. 

Minutes per game tells you a hell of a lot more about a hockey player than plus minus.

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27 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Sure you can give those minutes to other guys. Which can easily result in us getting caved in even worse than we already do, and leave our young goaltender (who was very up and down last season) to get completely shelled…

There’s a reason a veteran coach like Ruff was giving Subban the kind of minutes he did. 

Yeah, he’s the best we had. Does that say much? I don’t think it does. 

 

5 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Plays a lot of minutes because Lindy Ruff is smarter than you are and plays his best defenseman the most minutes. 

See above. 

Are either of you arguing that Subban cannot be replaced? 

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18 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Yeah, he’s the best we had. Does that say much? I don’t think it does. 

 

See above. 

Are either of you arguing that Subban cannot be replaced? 

Man you know I like you but you’re an expert of inventing arguments that aren’t there. 

Of course he can be replaced. That’s why I said “shouldn’t simply be replaced by a guy like Seighenthaler.” Him being the best defenseman on our team isn’t saying he’s a superstar, but it is saying he would sting to lose.

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It sounds great to give to give young guys more minutes until they get absolutely caved in on, then lose confidence and it ruins their career.  Subban is a placeholder.  He also just happens to have value on the trade market if and when things go south.  Are there other D men available via trade that can do what he does?   Yes.   Do we want to give up assets for that?   No.  Are there other players on our roster that can do what he does with no worry about what that does top the future?  IMO, that's also a hard no.      

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1 minute ago, MB3 said:

Man you know I like you but you’re an expert of inventing arguments that aren’t there. 

Of course he can be replaced. That’s why I said “shouldn’t simply be replaced by a guy like Seighenthaler.” Him being the best defenseman on our team isn’t saying he’s a superstar, but it is saying he would sting to lose.

Not really. It’s still a stupid phrase. If you want to say he’s the best defenseman, say that. If it will hurt to lose him because he is the best defenseman, say that. “He eats a lot of minutes” is a stupid phrase. if he’s gone, someone else (whoever our best defenseman is at that time) will be the guy eating minutes. 

If you replace Subban with someone better, and that guy eats the minutes, then that’s good. if not, sure, it’s bad. Because you lost your best player, not because he “eats minutes”. So just say that. That’s why I can’t stand that phrase. 

And if you want to talk about dumb arguments, you think Lindy Ruff is smart because he plays his best player the most? Any coach in any sport at any level knows that, that doesn’t exactly make him a genius. 

And at no point did I say it wouldn’t sting if PK goes. I would have protected him before this trade. 

 
 

 

3 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

It sounds great to give to give young guys more minutes until they get absolutely caved in on, then lose confidence and it ruins their career.  Subban is a placeholder.  He also just happens to have value on the trade market if and when things go south.  Are there other D men available via trade that can do what he does?   Yes.   Do we want to give up assets for that?   No.  Are there other players on our roster that can do what he does with no worry about what that does top the future?  IMO, that's also a hard no.      

Again, didn’t suggest that. All I said is if he goes, someone else “eats the minutes” which is why that concept annoys me. 

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