2021-2022 Around the League thread

[SterioDesign]

9 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

You’d have to include who all the picks turned into but looking at this list I don’t see any impact players that are currently part of their core. Maybe Lindgren? 

My whole point is that they realized they were not going to win a cup with that group, and went for a re-tool, rebuild and made tough moves. They traded many guys in their primes to rebuild. That's how you get the most out of a rebuild. You don't wait to hit absolute rock bottom like we did. They didn't let them walk into the sunset until they held no value or just walk for nothing.

But we can go through the exercise but there's a lot to track, they have been really active. They also traded Hayes for a first round pick. Which they got back and used to trade for Trouba, who's on their top pairing at the moment. They also traded Zuccarello for a 3rd.

They also drafted Kandre Miller (who's currently on their top pairing) from a trade they made with pittsburgh (who got the sens pick)

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by SterioDesign

[Crisis]

27 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

My whole point is that they realized they were not going to win a cup with that group, and went for a re-tool, rebuild and made tough moves. They traded many guys in their primes to rebuild. That's how you get the most out of a rebuild. You don't wait to hit absolute rock bottom like we did. They didn't let them walk into the sunset until they held no value or just walk for nothing.

But we can go through the exercise but there's a lot to track, they have been really active. They also traded Hayes for a first round pick. Which they got back and used to trade for Trouba, who's on their top pairing at the moment. They also traded Zuccarello for a 3rd.

They also drafted Kandre Miller (who's currently on their top pairing) from a trade they made with pittsburgh (who got the sens pick)

 

Another player that would only go to NY 🤮

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, Crisis said:

Another player that would only go to NY 🤮

Yup, but they were not getting him without having 2 first round picks that year. And they got that extra pick from managing their assets pretty well

Edited January 29, 2022 by SterioDesign

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

The new york rangers haven’t drafted a 60-point scoring forward in thirty years. Using them as an example of a successful rebuild is ridiculous: it’s like pointing at a trust fund baby and saying “look, if that guy can make it I can too!”. 

The rangers added a top-5 player in the entire national hockey league for fvcking free. They added a Norris winner for almost fvcking free because he said “trade me to New York or i’m not playing.” They got another top-pairing defenseman in Trouba, again, for relative pennies because he forced their hand. 

It’s frustrating how quickly we’ve been lapped  by the Rangers but don’t disillusion yourself into thinking we’re on the same playing field as they are. 

Well listen, if you're not even trying to understand the point i'm making that's not my fault, that's yours.

My whole point is that their management made the right decision and ours didn't. I acknowledged many many times that they were lucky cause superstars only wanted to go there and everything. I said that was part of the reason why they got back on their feet so quick compared to us. But i'm also not denying other reasons.

For us to enter our rebuild. We had to hit absolute rock bottom cause Lou simply refused to do it for years, he ran this team to the ground. We literally had to remove him from his position cause he just wouldn't do it. We had the oldest, slowest team in the entire league and possibly in NHL history. We had the worst prospects pool with literally no prospect worth sh!t. That's all because of bad management, bad asset management and over a decade of unaddressed bad drafting. That on top of not being a desirable destination for players. We were literally in the worst possible position we could possibly be in because of our management.

The Rangers though, they actually had a decent team with many players that could be considered core players and many players in their prime. Which they decided to trade to get full value and rebuild cause they assessed their situation and projected that they were not going to win a cup with this group. 

Now, i also hate the Rangers, but i'm not going to blindly ignore that fact. I'd give credit to any team doing the same thing and i'd call out any teams doing what we did too. It's just bad vs good management.

 

[NJDevils1214]

Cale Makar is really good at hockey.

[SterioDesign]

12 minutes ago, MB3 said:

god in fvcking heaven you’re insufferable sometimes.

* I'm flabbergasted to see you out of all people having to rely on personal attack because you didn't agree with someone's opinion on here.

Man... hopefully this doesn't become a habit for you.

 

 

 

 

* says no one ever. 

 

 

[Nicomo]

34 minutes ago, MB3 said:

The new york rangers haven’t drafted a 60-point scoring forward in thirty years. Using them as an example of a successful rebuild is ridiculous: it’s like pointing at a trust fund baby and saying “look, if that guy can make it I can too!”. 

The rangers added a top-5 player in the entire national hockey league for fvcking free. They added a Norris winner for almost fvcking free because he said “trade me to New York or i’m not playing.” They got another top-pairing defenseman in Trouba, again, for relative pennies because he forced their hand. 

It’s frustrating how quickly we’ve been lapped  by the Rangers but don’t disillusion yourself into thinking we’re on the same playing field as they are. 

Yep. Sterio is big on context, and you have use it when you look to see how they got to where they are. Would their rebuild still be ahead of ours without all that bright lights good fortune? Possibly, but I doubt 1 point out of of 1st place type success. I certainly like our #1OA’s better. If you’re building around a couple young players I’d always take centers over wingers. 

[SterioDesign]

20 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Yep. Sterio is big on context, and you have use it when you look to see how they got to where they are. Would their rebuild still be ahead of ours without all that bright lights good fortune? Possibly, but I doubt 1 point out of of 1st place type success. I certainly like our #1OA’s better. If you’re building around a couple young players I’d always take centers over wingers. 

They actually got pretty unlucky too through their rebuild too, something else to take in consideration. They traded their top center and their backup goalie for a first round pick, which they drafted Lias Anderson, 7th overall, he's an even worse pick than Zacha for us, then traded him for a 2nd. That didn't turn out good at all. But like we know, you can make great moves on paper who will not pan out, we've made a lot of those in this rebuild. But again, as a GM all you can do is make moves that will potentially make your team better, it just doesn't always pan out.

They also got Kappo and Lafreniere first and second overall who are pretty underwhelming for where they were picked. I also prefer Jack and Nico over those 2. But i think Lafreniere could be a better player than Nico in a few years

I wouldn't call the Rangers rebuild super "successful" either in the sense that i think they will win a cup. But in the sense that they never let the team hit rock bottom and manage to get back in the playoffs. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by SterioDesign

[Nicomo]

9 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

They actually got pretty unlucky too through their rebuild too, something else to take in consideration. They traded their top center and their backup goalie for a first round pick, which they drafted Lias Anderson, 7th overall, he's an even worse pick than Zacha for us, then traded him for a 2nd. That didn't turn out good at all. But like we know, you can make great moves on paper who will not pan out, we've made a lot of those in this rebuild. But again, as a GM all you can do is make moves that will potentially make your team better, it just doesn't always pan out.

They also got Kappo and Lafreniere first and second overall who are pretty underwhelming for where they were picked. 

Right. So it sounds like we’re actually in agreement that most of their current success has simply come from being the NY Rangers, and being an extremely desirable destination. 

[SterioDesign]

4 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Right. So it sounds like we’re actually in agreement that most of their current success has simply come from being the NY Rangers, and being an extremely desirable destination. 

Yes, which i said in my initial post about this lol i literally said that superstars only want to go there and that it's helping them. 

But to say that this is the only reason and ignoring what they actually did to re-tool, is very dishonest too.

[Devil Dan 56]

I think the main point is it’s easy to make the “right” decisions when guys like Panarin, Fox, Trouba, etc, will only come to you. There’s a lot more leeway there. The Rangers made some good decisions and some tough ones but they also have the luxury of a top 5 player taking less than market value to play there, a Norris trophy defenseman only wanting to go there, and a guy like Trouba telling his team “trade me there or I’m not playing”

Im sure if you plugged those 3 into our roster, we are also further along in a rebuild. 

[Nicomo]

6 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Yes, which i said in my initial post about this lol i literally said that superstars only want to go there and that it's helping them. 

But to say that this is the only reason and ignoring what they actually did to re-tool, is very dishonest too.

Only reason? Definitely not. Just the biggest. Being able to land Gerard Gallant was also a huge factor that had nothing to do with previous moves. 

[jagknife]

Dell on waivers, anyone else think this time tomorrow he’ll be a Devil again? Not saying we should, just have a feeling

[devlman]

9 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I hate the Rangers as much as anyone, but your “Lundqvist got screwed” take is so off-base.  C’mon, how many teams go into any given season with three goalies that are all expecting to play?  Again, the Rangers had TWO young capable goalies who deserved to play, and one who would be 38 the following season whose level of play was headed in the wrong direction.  Lundqvist had turned in three straight mehish decline seasons, despite being paid handsomely…the Rangers were supposed to just let that continue for another year, at the expense of everyone else?  When they had younger, better (and much cheaper) options in house?

You know how this can work…sometimes it makes no sense whatsoever to make personnel decisions based purely on sentimentality…besides, what makes you think Lundqvist himself would’ve been happy as the #3, with both Georgiev and Shesterkin slotted to be the tandem (barring injury).  Would a guy like Lundqvist be on board with becoming the “If Worse Comes To Worst, Play This Guy” netminder?  Is that how one of the Rangers’ best goalies would want to go out in his final season in NY?  These situations can become very uncomfortable for all involved very quickly, especially when an aging declining former star (who may or may not realize that he’s no longer what he was) is part of the equation.  

And if not for Lundqvist’s heart condition, he would been playing for the Caps…he was able to find another job.  Who knows how it would’ve gone, but at least that situation wouldn’t have been nearly as awkward as it would have been had he stuck around with the Rangers.

The Rangers would not have suffered in their rebuild having Henrik be the backup (not #3 but the actual backup) for one more season. At that time, the Rags were not competing and Georgiev was not much better anyway and could have played a year in the AHL. 

Would it have served the club slighltly better to have Georgiev up with the big club to get experience? Maybe but that’s the only price the Rangers would have paid to let Henrik go out on respectable terms. Having the backup Georgiev wait one more season would have been worth it in order to treat one of your greatest and loyal players properly and with respect. And besides, having Henrik around could have had benefits around the team in mentoring the younger players coming up. Not so off base at all. It’s all about how you want to treat your players.

Edited January 29, 2022 by devlman

[SterioDesign]

28 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I think the main point is it’s easy to make the “right” decisions when guys like Panarin, Fox, Trouba, etc, will only come to you. There’s a lot more leeway there. The Rangers made some good decisions and some tough ones but they also have the luxury of a top 5 player taking less than market value to play there, a Norris trophy defenseman only wanting to go there, and a guy like Trouba telling his team “trade me there or I’m not playing”

Im sure if you plugged those 3 into our roster, we are also further along in a rebuild. 

Please stop. That's such a dishonest statement based on context. Panarin, Fox and Trouba were NOT on the roster when the Rangers made the decision to re-tool and sent that message to the fans. 

This was the roster they had when they decided to start re-tooling. 

They literally traded 10 players from their top 12 players in points from that season within a year, 10 out of their 12 top players. Let that sink in for a moment. They also traded their backup goalie from that year. Don't try to dismiss the balls it took to do that because of players they acquired literally 2-3 years later

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by SterioDesign

[SterioDesign]

26 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Only reason? Definitely not. Just the biggest. Being able to land Gerard Gallant was also a huge factor that had nothing to do with previous moves. 

Like i explained in my previous post. Back to when management made the decision to start re-tooling.

Galland, Panarin, Fox, Trouba, etc etc wasn't part of the plan at all. It's pretty unfair to judge their decisions from then in hindsight 

[Satans Hockey]

23 minutes ago, jagknife said:

Dell on waivers, anyone else think this time tomorrow he’ll be a Devil again? Not saying we should, just have a feeling

Can he stop a beach ball? 

[jagknife]

23 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Can he stop a beach ball? 

I’d say softball is his expertise

[NJDevils1214]

1 hour ago, jagknife said:

Dell on waivers, anyone else think this time tomorrow he’ll be a Devil again? Not saying we should, just have a feeling

If they grab him he has a smaller chance of hurting any of our players. Might be a good way to protect Nico.

[mfitz804]

Honestly, he’s available and he is an NHL goalie, that should be two of our main criteria. 

[titans04]

18 hours ago, Satans Hockey said:

I'm with you on a lot of this and sure they are looking good right now but they missed the playoffs for 4 years straight(no I'm not counting that bs 2020 system where Carolina swept them in 3 games anyway) and they finished dead last in the division 17-18 and second to last in 18-19 and 19-20. 

They also had 7 straight misses from 97-98 to 03-04 while the Devils were winning some cups and making the playoffs every year. I know this team blows now and our situation sucks and I'm not making any excuses for it but the Rangers and Henrik had their window for a cup win, one we even stopped. I don't envy anything about the Rangers. Their color blue is putrid. 

The moral of my story is fvck the Rangers. 

All good, to me it's more about the 3 cups being such a distant memory it doesn't provide any comfort for me at this point. Not enough to overcome the stink of the last decade. Of course I'm glad they haven't won anything but I guess the bottom line is every year we say let's hope we play some meaningful second half games and we continue to swirl the drain for one reason or another.

[MadDog2020]

https://deadspin.com/hank-s-for-nothing-old-buddy-1848446072?utm_campaign=Deadspin&utm_content=1643491801&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2UTIQM09Ov_dm_7iBwvYpo2UWX6aeffm1PRlZE_R4wryFVkq88rVhhJaw

[Devil Dan 56]

3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Please stop. That's such a dishonest statement based on context. Panarin, Fox and Trouba were NOT on the roster when the Rangers made the decision to re-tool and sent that message to the fans. 

This was the roster they had when they decided to start re-tooling. 

They literally traded 10 players from their top 12 players in points from that season within a year, 10 out of their 12 top players. Let that sink in for a moment. They also traded their backup goalie from that year. Don't try to dismiss the balls it took to do that because of players they acquired literally 2-3 years later

 

 

 

 

It’s not a dishonest statement. The Rangers have a long history of players wanting to go there. You think that didn’t factor in to their plans? That they wouldn’t have another Martin St Louis situation? And that they wouldn’t throw money at a free agent and let someone else take a garbage contract off their hands? They do it constantly. Throw money at a free agent, the contract becomes an albatross, they buy it out (or someone takes the bad contract) and they do it again. The Devils and Rangers operate in 2 different realities. The Rangers can trade away players and fill the spots back in, in a way the Devils can’t. 

Sure the Devils cupboard was bare, but they made a lot of moves that didn’t pan out in the last 7 years and they don’t have the margin for error to make it up in free agency or with a player demanding to be a Devil.

That is absolutely an advantage for the Rangers. Plus they can afford to risk being terrible for a couple of years. It doesn’t matter for them, the arena will still sell out. So yeah it took balls, in the same way taking your hands off the handlebars takes balls when you have training wheels. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Devil Dan 56

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, MB3 said:

Calling you insufferable isn’t a personal attack, it’s just a personality trait. You somehow boil every conversation down to “Lou sucks”. Lou hasn’t been here in… 7 years? I understand he left the cupboard bare but we’re 2 GMs later my dude.

Every GM says “give me 3 years to make the team mine.” 3 years! Lou doesn’t have his fingerprint on these new jersey devils, he simply doesn’t. The Devils are where they are because of asset mismanagement, trading 2nd-round picks for nearly-useless players like theyre fvcking tic-tacs. (Johansson, Subban, Gusev). They’re here because of major whiffs in the draft: Zacha instead of Werenski, McLeod instead of Chychrun. They’re no longer here because of Lou. And every time you mention Lou you get more insufferable. 

You mentioned Panarin, Trouba and Fox as a one-off, almost like it was inconsequential. The Devils don’t have a single player more valuable in their entire organization than Panarin and Fox, and only one player in their entire organization that’s on Trouba’s level. Those are 3 incredible, rebuild-stopping, team-changing bluechip players that wear a Rangers jersey because they play in New York City. Remove those 3 players and the Rangers are right the fvck next to the Devils (or looking up at us). Remove those 3 players and you’d be looking at the Miller draft pick like a proverbial knife in their throat. 

Aside from those players, I don’t see where the Rangers rebuild succeeded in any iota better than the Devils. The Devils also did a good job trading expiring players in their prime recently; Hall is a good example of a guy who wasn’t going to stick around netting Dawson Mercer who should be a Devil for a long time.

But you insist on bringing Lou into everything and it’s getting way past “old man shouts at cloud” and nearly approaching “old man needs to be hit by a bus.” Lou sold out for one last Cup run and it damn near worked. He signed a HoF type player who quit a year later. His home grown captain told him and everyone else he was staying in NJ, only to make plans to leave for minnesota while his team was in the middle of the Finals. Elias and Brodeur got old and useless. What else was he supposed to do? 

How is it possible that 7 years and 2 GMs later you’re trying to force him into the debate about the Rangers outpacing the Devils rebuild? It must be a fvcking nightmare being inside of your brain. 

I don't even know how to respond to this cause you wrote full paragraphs based on things i either didn't even say or things I agreed with. 

That's a sign of someone who's not trying to understand what i'm saying and just reading to respond and argue. 

Truth is, you guys are just too stubborn and biased to see nuances in this conversation. I acknowledge like... 5-6 times by now that the Rangers were advantaged big time by being a destination. I made that point in my original post.

As for Lou, how can you compare 2 rebuilds and not address what the team was when it started and what initiated the rebuild. And what our team was is 100% due to Lou and his bad decisions. I KNOW you koolaid drinkers would rather jump off a bridge rather than admit that Lou fvcked up, but you can't talk about the reason we had to rebuild, what the other GMs had to work with and not bring up why. Come on now. Bringing up the whole "you always bring up Lou sucks bla bla bla" is just a lame way to discredit my argument, which you can't argue against. Also hilarious how to frame how the end of his time in NJ went. Talk about being delusional and re-writing history. Even asking what else he was supposed to do when i said it a thousand times.

And no, no GM takes the 2015 Devils and make that team theirs. 

 

 

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

It’s not a dishonest statement. The Rangers have a long history of players wanting to go there. You think that didn’t factor in to their plans? That they wouldn’t have another Martin St Louis situation? And that they wouldn’t throw money at a free agent and let someone else take a garbage contract off their hands? They do it constantly. Throw money at a free agent, the contract becomes an albatross, they buy it out (or someone takes the bad contract) and they do it again. The Devils and Rangers operate in 2 different realities. The Rangers can trade away players and fill the spots back in, in a way the Devils can’t. 

Sure the Devils cupboard was bare, but they made a lot of moves that didn’t pan out in the last 7 years and they don’t have the margin for error to make it up in free agency or with a player demanding to be a Devil.

That is absolutely an advantage for the Rangers. Plus they can afford to risk being terrible for a couple of years. It doesn’t matter for them, the arena will still sell out. So yeah it took balls, in the same way taking your hands off the handlebars takes balls when you have training wheels. 

Did i ever say they didn't have an advantage? I said it about 10 times by now probably. What's wrong with you guys? I know damn well the Rangers always do this. It's frustrating and you just wonder how the players keep falling into that trap seeing how they ALWAYS get traded or bought out eventually. I acknowledged that countless times and i agree.

I'm just saying they made good decisions to start a rebuild at the right time in order to potentially get the best result. And that deserves some credits. And a good GM plays with his advantages and disadvantages. That's part of it. So you know... if you know players want to go to your team, you can have some flexibility there. But then, if players dont want to go to your team... then dont systematically let your top players walk directly into free agency so that you can lose them for nothing. 

You're not willing to give them credit for understanding it was time to re-tool, sending a message to the fans and blowing things up by trading 10 players out of their top 12 in scoring, plus their backup. All within a year. To you that's not a good thing? They should have just... keep on trying with a group that wasn't getting it done?

All because historically they knew players wanted to go there.... probably?

Ive been more than fair here. The only people pushing back are people refusing to give any credits to the Rangers. Which i know sucks. But there's a blind bias at play there, its that obvious.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by SterioDesign