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2021-2022 Around the League thread


MadDog2020
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6 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Fitz saying the “answer is in the room” was a huge cop out and showed he wasn’t interested in helping the situation at all. 

I still maintain the answer was in fact on the room, he just didn’t know what the question was. 

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59 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I understand what you’re saying, but aren’t you tired of us punting seasons? Other than one magical run where Hall dragged us into the playoffs in the last game of the year, it seems we’re done by December every season.

And I don’t necessarily agree with the idea of giving up when things go wrong. I feel like it sends a negative message to the rest of the team. Fitz saying the “answer is in the room” was a huge cop out and showed he wasn’t interested in helping the situation at all. 

I mean. I'm not loving sucking. But also i want us to build a team that can compete and win a cup. That's very different than building a team who can just squeeze in just to say that they made the playoffs. Which is what previous management desperately tried to do and ran us into the ground.

 I really told myself then that if we'd get anyone willing to make the right steps and be patient. And give time to the young guys to develop. That'd i'd gladly deal with rookies mistakes Vs Deboer benching Larsson for one mistake while salvadore and greene were getting away with murder every minute they were on the ice...

Well with all that context it truly helps my patience.

It's really about managing expectations. Last year before the season, analyzing everything, our division, our roster and everything. I told myself that we may... MAY squeeze in a wild card position if and ONLY IF everything went absolutely perfectly, no injuries, guys having amazing seasons, other teams sh!tting the beds and just having things going our way... 

So we went into the season and literally everything that could go wrong, went wrong. So going back to my personal expectation... i couldn't be mad and upset. I understand how because of all this, it was going to be another year of "a step back in order to take 2 steps forward". Which we will. We're in a better position now to get better in the future by getting the 2nd overall than having the... 15th pick or wtv and missing the playoffs by a point.

Anyway, that's how im choosing to see things and quite frankly it's making things a lot more tolerable

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24 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I mean. I'm not loving sucking. But also i want us to build a team that can compete and win a cup. That's very different than building a team who can just squeeze in just to say that they made the playoffs. Which is what previous management desperately tried to do and ran us into the ground.

 I really told myself then that if we'd get anyone willing to make the right steps and be patient. And give time to the young guys to develop. That'd i'd gladly deal with rookies mistakes Vs Deboer benching Larsson for one mistake while salvadore and greene were getting away with murder every minute they were on the ice...

Well with all that context it truly helps my patience.

It's really about managing expectations. Last year before the season, analyzing everything, our division, our roster and everything. I told myself that we may... MAY squeeze in a wild card position if and ONLY IF everything went absolutely perfectly, no injuries, guys having amazing seasons, other teams sh!tting the beds and just having things going our way... 

So we went into the season and literally everything that could go wrong, went wrong. So going back to my personal expectation... i couldn't be mad and upset. I understand how because of all this, it was going to be another year of "a step back in order to take 2 steps forward". Which we will. We're in a better position now to get better in the future by getting the 2nd overall than having the... 15th pick or wtv and missing the playoffs by a point.

Anyway, that's how im choosing to see things and quite frankly it's making things a lot more tolerable

I think Fitz saying they were as aiming for a wild card spot and then falling so far off the mark is what has me so annoyed with last season  

Also I was giving the Devils a lot of my money every year which gives the losing an extra little sting. 

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6 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I think Fitz saying they were as aiming for a wild card spot and then falling so far off the mark is what has me so annoyed with last season  

Also I was giving the Devils a lot of my money every year which gives the losing an extra little sting. 

I get what you’re saying, but on the other hand, your two top goalies missed most of the season, your superstar center missed half the season, your free agent defenseman missed significant time and came back playing like he was compromised,  etc. 

I don’t think many teams could overcome that.

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11 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I get what you’re saying, but on the other hand, your two top goalies missed most of the season, your superstar center missed half the season, your free agent defenseman missed significant time and came back playing like he was compromised,  etc. 

I don’t think many teams could overcome that.

devils were a “if everything goes right, they might squeak into the playoffs” team in the offseason. 

and then quite literally everything went wrong. expectations should’ve been adjusted and if they weren’t that doesn’t seem like Fitz’ fault, if I’m being honest. 

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Well exactly what MB3 and Mfitz just said.

I mean... im not trying to be an a$$hole or anything. But i straight up don't understand when people say "Fitz said he wanted to play meaningful games in march... then didn't do anything and didn't even care to save the season"

Completely leaving out incredibly important context. Like... insanely important context.

It's like if a father tells his family. If everything goes well with work, that i get my promotion and that i don't have to spend too much on car repair for my inspection this year. I'll get us a trip to Europe!"

Then he lost his job, his kid totalled his car, there's a flood in the basement that isnt covered by insurances and he gets cancer.

Then his wife and kids are like "I can't believe he told us we'd go to Europe and obviously we're not and he's just sitting on his hands not doing anything!!!" While the poor guy is just trying to somehow find a cheap car so he can get a new job. While still making full payment on the car he totalled. While getting cancer treatments.

Like... this is literally what those fans sounds like to me.

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10 minutes ago, MB3 said:

devils were a “if everything goes right, they might squeak into the playoffs” team in the offseason. 

and then quite literally everything went wrong. expectations should’ve been adjusted and if they weren’t that doesn’t seem like Fitz’ fault, if I’m being honest. 

It’s ok, it’ll all be fixed once we trade for Knight and DeBrincat, sign Gaudreau, and get Trotz to coach. 

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Well exactly what MB3 and Mfitz just said.

I mean... im not trying to be an a$$hole or anything. But i straight up don't understand when people say "Fitz said he wanted to play meaningful games in march... then didn't do anything and didn't even care to save the season"

Completely leaving out incredibly important context. Like... insanely important context.

It's like if a father tells his family. If everything goes well with work, that i get my promotion and that i don't have to spend too much on car repair for my inspection this year. I'll get us a trip to Europe!"

Then he lost his job, total his car, there's a flood in the basement that isnt covered by insurances and he gets cancer.

Then his wife and kids are like "I can't believe he told us we'd go to Europe and obviously we're not and he's just sitting on his hands not doing anything!!!" While the poor guy is just trying to somehow find a cheap car so he can get a new job. While still making full payment on the car he totalled.

Like... this is literally what those fans sounds like to me.

Sometimes your analogies take a real left turn and leave me in “huh?” land. This is not one of those times, it’s exactly right. 

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45 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Sometimes your analogies take a real left turn and leave me in “huh?” land. This is not one of those times, it’s exactly right. 

Yeah, he went a bit dark with the cancer, but as an analogy -  it’s spot on. 

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11 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

That was probably huge. I still think the leash needs to be short though. It’s important to listen to your team leaders but within reason. 

To me this line is the big one with Fitz.  Like I said earlier at best it means he is incompetent.  At worst his hands are being tied by those above him.

I don't doubt Fitz will try to do some things in the offseason; it depends on what kinds of things he will do.  Will he do another picks and parts for another team's most expendable player kind of deal?  Will he sign a big free agent only to dump another player on an expiring contract and have to pay another team with a pick to do that the same afternoon?  Give up 2nd and 3rd rounders for another project who has fallen short of his draft selection?

If those are the types of moves he ends up making and everyone declares he won the post-season, pardon me while I not celebrate after recent PTSD.

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9 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

It’s ok, it’ll all be fixed once we trade for Knight and DeBrincat, sign Gaudreau, and get Trotz to coach. 

Trotz apparently turned down $7M a year to coach the Flyers.  I doubt the owners would shell out anywhere near that amount for him while they swim around in their big vault of money a la Scrooge McDuck.

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4 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Trotz apparently turned down $7M a year to coach the Flyers.  I doubt the owners would shell out anywhere near that amount for him while they swim around in their big vault of money a la Scrooge McDuck.

This. The owners own a portfolio of professional sports teams, and the Devils are just one of many. They likely have very little emotional investment in this team and want to get as much ROI without breaking the bank. Art Rooney, George Steinbrenner, or Wellington Mara they're not.

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One other point is that if you include the #2 in the upcoming draft, we have three top 10 picks on board that are not yet on the roster.  Assuming Slaf is the pick, all three address major holes in the roster when they do arrive, if they pan out of course.   The Devils are far from a finished product that is just wildly underachieving.     

At least with respect to the prospects, I think Fitz has done a nice job taking a long term approach and not rushing guys up 

14 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Give up 2nd and 3rd rounders for another project who has fallen short of his draft selection?

We're actually at the point where we have a pretty deep prospect pool and these type trades can make a lot more sense than when Shero was doing them.   I don't know if Palmieri qualifies as falling short of his draft position but imagine if we could land that type of player now for just a 2nd and 3rd?     

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2 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

One other point is that if you include the #2 in the upcoming draft, we have three top 10 picks on board that are not yet on the roster.  Assuming Slaf is the pick, all three address major holes in the roster when they do arrive, if they pan out of course.   The Devils are far from a finished product that is just wildly underachieving.     

At least with respect to the prospects, I think Fitz has done a nice job taking a long term approach and not rushing guys up 

We're actually at the point where we have a pretty deep prospect pool and these type trades can make a lot more sense than when Shero was doing them.   I don't know if Palmieri qualifies as falling short of his draft position but imagine if we could land that type of player now for just a 2nd and 3rd?     

And of course Shero didn't have much else to work with in assets to trade, in trying to find some guys who could play on his team right away.  That picks-for-NHLer kind of deal worked out just fine with Palms, in that the Devils got five cost-effective and relatively productive seasons out of him.  Unfortunately not many similar moves (MoJo, Mueller, etc) worked out nearly as well. 

But yeah kids will be coming soon to add to the kids already here (definitely not convinced about Holtz, but he'll be getting his shot soon enough).  It's just a question of will the right guys be working with them?  If I have any fears re:  Fitz at the moment, I wonder if he's like several MLB GMs who see their managers as their puppets.  I'm with others who feel that if you're committed to Rupp for a third season, let the guy pick his own assistants.  I'm with MD2020 in that I'm done bellyaching about him still being here (and getting ticked off when other teams sign new coaches), but at least give the guy some level of power if you don't want to explore other head coaching options.

re:  SD's analogy, that one does make sense, but it does get to a point where even if there's not much left to lose, you just hate seeing losers being allowed to stick around.  Nas and Recchi were never going to be the answer...it was sickening just seeing them continuing not being the answer game after game after game.  But yeah, as SD correctly noted, a sh!t-ton went wrong.  

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3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

And of course Shero didn't have much else to work with in assets to trade, in trying to find some guys who could play on his team right away.  That picks-for-NHLer kind of deal worked out just fine with Palms, in that the Devils got five cost-effective and relatively productive seasons out of him.  Unfortunately not many similar moves (MoJo, Mueller, etc) worked out nearly as well. 

But yeah kids will be coming soon to add to the kids already here (definitely not convinced about Holtz, but he'll be getting his shot soon enough).  It's just a question of will the right guys be working with them?  If I have any fears re:  Fitz at the moment, I wonder if he's like several MLB GMs who see their managers as their puppets.  I'm with others who feel that if you're committed to Rupp for a third season, let the guy pick his own assistants.  I'm with MD2020 in that I'm done bellyaching about him still being here (and getting ticked off when other teams sign new coaches), but at least give the guy some level of power if you don't want to explore other head coaching options.

re:  SD's analogy, that one does make sense, but it does get to a point where even if there's not much left to lose, you just hate seeing losers being allowed to stick around.  Nas and Recchi were never going to be the answer...it was sickening just seeing them continuing not being the answer game after game after game.  But yeah, as SD correctly noted, a sh!t-ton went wrong.  

At the very least it is poor optics to make a declaration at the beginning of the season that you want to play meaningful games in March and when the ship starts sinking fast in Nov/Dec you sit on your hands.

It also wasn't very encouraging to see that his big deadline move was to acquire a goaltender who was back in the NHL for the first time in 4 years this year and whose injury escaped our GM's notice when he traded for him.

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16 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

It also wasn't very encouraging to see that his big deadline move was to acquire a goaltender who was back in the NHL for the first time in 4 years this year and whose injury escaped our GM's notice when he traded for him.

I’m not sure what other deals he could have made, I guess moving PK was an option but for nobody wanting him. Otherwise it would be us trying to trade away pieces of sh!t, which isn’t what people are looking for at the trade deadline. 

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8 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I’m not sure what other deals he could have made, I guess moving PK was an option but for nobody wanting him. Otherwise it would be us trying to trade away pieces of sh!t, which isn’t what people are looking for at the trade deadline. 

He said at the time the purpose of the trade was to give the team a chance to win games down the stretch and that he owes it to them.  That's fine and all, but giving them a goalie who hasn't played in 4 years plus who was injured doesn't seem to fit the bill.  It probably would have been just as effective if he did nothing.

I am not going to fault him for the moves he could have made but he didn't; but the one he did make and how confounding it was.

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25 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

He said at the time the purpose of the trade was to give the team a chance to win games down the stretch and that he owes it to them.  That's fine and all, but giving them a goalie who hasn't played in 4 years plus who was injured doesn't seem to fit the bill.  It probably would have been just as effective if he did nothing.

I am not going to fault him for the moves he could have made but he didn't; but the one he did make and how confounding it was.

the fact that Hammond is the BEST option Fitz could get. And that there wasn't much movement with other goalies moving, eventhough it was reported that many playoffs teams wanted to add a goalie. Plus just looking into who could have been available etc etc.. there just wasnt many options.

Especially when you want to get a goalie... without sending one the other way (since our goalies were injured). What team would send a goalie who can be either a starter or solid backup without getting another one in exchange?

Im glad we gave Daws a good look and experience at the NHL level instead of making a desperate move that'd cost us too much just to please the fans. in a season that was clearly lost anyway

And its worth noting that Fitz HAD a good setup. With Blackwood, Bernier and Wedgewood. The first 2 got injured and Wedge got picked up on waivers and had a pretty good season. But that happened when we had 2 healthy goalies ahead of him. So it's really not his fault

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1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

At the very least it is poor optics to make a declaration at the beginning of the season that you want to play meaningful games in March and when the ship starts sinking fast in Nov/Dec you sit on your hands.

It also wasn't very encouraging to see that his big deadline move was to acquire a goaltender who was back in the NHL for the first time in 4 years this year and whose injury escaped our GM's notice when he traded for him.

The good ol' "he's not doing anything, sitting on his hands" when fans don't see results, is so so so so shortsighted

Clearly many have no idea what it is to be a GM and how much work and calls you make that simply doesn't pan out more often than not.

Again, going back to my analogy it's like the dad spending his entire days making calls and sending his resume to companies, going on interviews. He's just not landing any jobs, not his fault, it takes 2 to tango. And his family who's working all day or at school don't see that and simply assume he's playing videogames all day not even trying. Like come on. 

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

And his family who's working all day or at school don't see that and simply assume he's playing videogames all day not even trying. 

A/k/a “living the dream” lol. 

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