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2021-2022 Around the League thread


MadDog2020
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51 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

The culture that hurt Beach also makes good hockey teams. Life is cruel like that. 

It would have taken a special person to disrupt a Stanley Cup run to do the right thing. There are not a lot of special people in the world. 

Absolutely disagree, this wasn't Kane or Towes or any critical piece of their team who they would have had to get rid of. It was the easily replaceable video coach who should have been thrown out the door immediately once everyone found out what he did. 

Edited by Satans Hockey
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7 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Absolutely disagree, this wasn't Kane or Towes or any critical piece of their team who they would have had to get rid of it. It was the easily replaceable video coach who should have been thrown out the door immediately once everyone found out what he did. 

I think honestly, that’s the bottom line. This was a simple thing to fix. 

I wonder if the Penn State scandal had already occurred if this would have been handled differently. But probably not. 

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32 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

It’s the same culture in which Scott Stevens laid out Slava Kozlov and mouthed “you’re next” to the Red Wings bench. It’s the same culture in which Stevens led the Devils to a championship playing with post-concussion syndrome.

It is truly a culture that cuts both ways. It produces heroes, it produces cowards.

Those were 20+ years ago.  While the culture was never great, I think it has actually gotten worse since then.

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12 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Absolutely disagree, this wasn't Kane or Towes or any critical piece of their team who they would have had to get rid of it. It was the easily replaceable video coach who should have been thrown out the door immediately once everyone found out what he did. 

What did Quenneville reportedly say? No distractions? That's a big wet blanket on doing the right thing, isn't it? 

Sometimes, the coach is right when he wants to tamp down something for the good of his team.  Sometimes, the coach is wrong. And the coach was wrong on Kyle Beach, obviously. But when you're trying to win the franchise's first championship in 50 years, you could see how it would be easy to sweep aside what happened to a player who was not essential to winning a Cup.

My point is that people are flawed. Quenneville is a great coach. Toews is a great captain. They led teams to championships. They are not empathizers, however, I think we've all seen that, LOL! There's a reason why Ken Daneyko looks like a deer in the headlights when people are talking about this. It's not in his wheelhouse.

As wrong as people have acted, I would advise holding back on what you would be willing to throw away for the sake of protecting victims. Things can go too far in the other direction. That's my worry. Please, NHL, do what it takes to make sure people like Aldrich don't get hired. But when I see Jonathan Toews get thrown into the woodchipper for a selfish comment and his lack of self-awareness, it's a little overboard.

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38 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

What did Quenneville reportedly say? No distractions? That's a big wet blanket on doing the right thing, isn't it? 

Sometimes, the coach is right when he wants to tamp down something for the good of his team.  Sometimes, the coach is wrong. And the coach was wrong on Kyle Beach, obviously. But when you're trying to win the franchise's first championship in 50 years, you could see how it would be easy to sweep aside what happened to a player who was not essential to winning a Cup.

My point is that people are flawed. Quenneville is a great coach. Toews is a great captain. They led teams to championships. They are not empathizers, however, I think we've all seen that, LOL! There's a reason why Ken Daneyko looks like a deer in the headlights when people are talking about this. It's not in his wheelhouse.

As wrong as people have acted, I would advise holding back on what you would be willing to throw away for the sake of protecting victims. Things can go too far in the other direction. That's my worry. Please, NHL, do what it takes to make sure people like Aldrich don't get hired. But when I see Jonathan Toews get thrown into the woodchipper for a selfish comment and his lack of self-awareness, it's a little overboard.

Sorry but holy sh!t this is a terrible take. The fact that you put an "LOL" in this reply made my stomach actually fvcking turn. You're talking about a room full of people who knew that their teammate got raped. 

And instead of doing the right thing, like -- I don't know -- call the motherfvcking police? -- they stayed silent to protect the legacy of winning a shiny trophy. I know that hockey fans and sports fans put winning above all else, and in 99% of cases winning absolutely is the most important thing -- but this is the 1%. Johnathan Toews was the captain of that team. He knew that a teammate was raped. He let his teammates make fun of him for it. You're really going to call him non-essential? So you're saying that maybe the Blackhawks would've rushed to his defense if Kyle Beach was more talented at hockey? 

Playing hockey is a meritocracy, sure. Your basic rights as a human being are not. 

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1 hour ago, Jerrydevil said:

It’s the same culture in which Scott Stevens laid out Slava Kozlov and mouthed “you’re next” to the Red Wings bench. It’s the same culture in which Stevens led the Devils to a championship playing with post-concussion syndrome.

It is truly a culture that cuts both ways. It produces heroes, it produces cowards.

The second you find yourself comparing a player laying a legal-at-the-time hit twenty six years ago to a coach raping his player while the entire team let it happen unpunished and mocked the player for it, you have to stop and think "where am I in this argument?" 

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2 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

That's right, that's essentially what happened. Why didn't any brave individuals break rank?  

because they’re pathetic fvcking losers. somewhere in this comment your argument is missing.

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36 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

Yeah, doing the right thing takes guts. You're just not going to find many people who will take that kind of risk. There's no Cup parade for that person, if you know what I mean. 

Nobody is arguing that. You’re just sympathizing with the players who stayed silent, and I think that’s incredibly icky.

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The more innocuous and apt comparison is the same win at all costs culture that let this happen in the first place was also the reason why Quenneville coached the other night and the Panthers dragged their feet as long as they could on doing the right thing. Because they have the best team they’ve ever had in franchise history and they didn’t want to rock the boat either, so they took the gutless way out until Beach, Bettman and public outcry left them no other choice.

Edited by NJDevs4978
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2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Nobody is arguing that. You’re just sympathizing with the players who stayed silent, and I think that’s incredibly icky.

I'm not trashing them. The "strip the C" stuff is a gross overreaction.

I'd be exalting the player who stood up for Kyle Beach, though. That would be an exceptional person.  

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21 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

I'm not trashing them. The "strip the C" stuff is a gross overreaction.

I'd be exalting the player who stood up for Kyle Beach, though. That would be an exceptional person.  

You and I have different definitions of the word gross.

Standing up for the players who silently watched their teammate's rapist go unpunished is gross.

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19 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

The Blackhawks requested Aldrich’s name be removed from the Cup.

They should remove some other names too.

Honestly, the fvcking video coach shouldn't be on there anyway, Maybe we should have put Dancing Earl on there.

(I don't know when Dancing Earl became a thing, but the point remains the same). 

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32 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

The more innocuous and apt comparison is the same win at all costs culture that let this happen in the first place was also the reason why Quenneville coached the other night and the Panthers dragged their feet as long as they could on doing the right thing. Because they have the best team they’ve ever had in franchise history and they didn’t want to rock the boat either, so they took the gutless way out until Beach, Bettman and public outcry left them no other choice.

I feel like Florida letting him continue to coach kinda got passed over by most folks due to the rapid-fire news over the last 48 hours but... I think the Panthers deserve way, way more flack for letting him continue during all of this for the exact reason you described.  It's a recent example of the very culture we're all talking about, in action.

More of the same.  Winning above everything.

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1 minute ago, MB3 said:

Standing up for the players who silently watched their teammate's rapist go unpunished is gross.

I think it depends on the players. They had just watched what Kyle had gone through, how nobody did what they were supposed to do, and how he was treated afterwards. They may well have been afraid of what the repercussions of them standing up would be. Like I said earlier, maybe its a bit cowardly but that same fear that kept Kyle from really discussing this until 11 years later could have been present in others. 

I would also say, the odds of this guy having sexually assaulted only one person in his entire history is probably pretty low. I honestly believe whenever you catch someone for a crime like this, odds are there were probably multiple times they got away with it, maybe at a lesser degree or maybe not, before you caught them. Even if it didn't go to the same level as Kyle's, who knows if other players were affected by this and whether their silence was, or still is, based on that. 

Its easy enough to believe that everyone "should have said something", but that's definitely not realistic. 

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25 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

The Blackhawks requested Aldrich’s name be removed from the Cup.

They should remove some other names too.

I hope it's not removed but more-so crossed out / X'd out.  Let the marked up spot(s) on the cup be a constant reminder of what happened here and what needs to change as a result.

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7 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Standing up for the players who silently watched their teammate's rapist go unpunished is gross.

Agreed, don't know how anyone can step up to the defense of the star players on the Hawks here.  Hold every single person who knew accountable, but I think the league should pay special attention to the influential people in that lockerroom who let this happen.

Toews being Canada's golden boy, "Captain Intangibles", for a long time really pisses me off now. 

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9 minutes ago, Devilsfan118 said:

I hope it's not removed but more-so crossed out / X'd out.  Let the marked up spot(s) on the cup be a constant reminder of what happened here and what needs to change as a result.

Agreed.   Like the literal stain that team should be on the cup.  

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5 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I think it depends on the players. They had just watched what Kyle had gone through, how nobody did what they were supposed to do, and how he was treated afterwards. They may well have been afraid of what the repercussions of them standing up would be. Like I said earlier, maybe its a bit cowardly but that same fear that kept Kyle from really discussing this until 11 years later could have been present in others. 

I've seen people make this argument and compare it to patterned sexual abuse culture at dysfunctional workplaces (like a Matt Lauer type thing?) but I think that's apples to oranges. I understand that there are probably several young men and women at places like that too scared to stand up for their coworkers with threats of never working in the business again, being shamed, etc. 

That's not this situation. An NHL Video coach makes, what, $150k per year? Toews was the LEADER of that team, beloved by that city, making ten million dollars a year. What possible repercussions could there be? "Our best player just came to the defense of his teammate because a coach raped him" isn't exactly something that's going to follow Toews around with any kind of stink. I can maybe buy that there were a couple of 4th line journeymen who thought if they spoke up they'd never play again, and I don't think you can consider that silence as violence. But the majority of that team? The majority of that leadership group, at both an organization and team level? It's disgusting. 

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6 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I've seen people make this argument and compare it to patterned sexual abuse culture at dysfunctional workplaces (like a Matt Lauer type thing?) but I think that's apples to oranges. I understand that there are probably several young men and women at places like that too scared to stand up for their coworkers with threats of never working in the business again, being shamed, etc. 

That's not this situation. An NHL Video coach makes, what, $150k per year? Toews was the LEADER of that team, beloved by that city, making ten million dollars a year. What possible repercussions could there be? "Our best player just came to the defense of his teammate because a coach raped him" isn't exactly something that's going to follow Toews around with any kind of stink. I can maybe buy that there were a couple of 4th line journeymen who thought if they spoke up they'd never play again, and I don't think you can consider that silence as violence. But the majority of that team? The majority of that leadership group, at both an organization and team level? It's disgusting. 

The possible repercussions could be that everyone in charge ignores there is a problem, the rest of the team harasses you, and you wind up having to leave and play in Germany. 

Like I said, it depends on the players. The star players like Toews probably would have been unaffected like you said. It’s probably exactly like high school, there were probably the players who acted like complete pieces of sh!t and added to Kyle’s humiliation, and probably others who said nothing and did nothing because they didn’t want to take the wrong side. 

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1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Honestly, the fvcking video coach shouldn't be on there anyway, Maybe we should have put Dancing Earl on there.

(I don't know when Dancing Earl became a thing, but the point remains the same). 

Speaking of Dancing Earl I read he was sick recently and in the hospital. I don't want the front office to publish that they did or anything but I really hope they reached out to him and will assist with him with his medical bills. They use him enough as essentially a mascot of the team for so many years that it would be a nice gesture to take care of him. 

Edited by Satans Hockey
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4 hours ago, Jerrydevil said:

It’s the same culture in which Scott Stevens laid out Slava Kozlov and mouthed “you’re next” to the Red Wings bench. It’s the same culture in which Stevens led the Devils to a championship playing with post-concussion syndrome.

It is truly a culture that cuts both ways. It produces heroes, it produces cowards.

Totally respect your opinion but don't in anyway see the Scott Stevens scenario and an entire organization from top to bottom covering up/completely ignoring a sexual assault situation against one of their own prospects for 10 years as being in the same ballpark. Then mix in that they  go and still write the guy a recommendation knowing all this and he goes on to sexually assault a 16 year old boy and ends up in jail.   

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