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2021 New York Mets Offseason Thread


Colorado Rockies 1976
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20 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

I mean we gotta know at this point he's basically begging the Dodgers and/or Giants to up their offer, hopefully this is more Beltran 2.0 than Bauer 2.0 (and bear in mind Scherzer's position with the union makes it doubly hard to turn down the most money) but it just seems to be our forever lot that we can never count on something until it's actually done

This of course is part of the problem of having money to spend, but not necessarily being a prime destination...Mets will definitely get used at times, as players and agents try to get more money out of other teams.  I don't kid myself that Scherzer is THAT keen on coming here, but he's open to the idea of being bought, if no one else steps up enough.  And if he accepts, at that point we won't care, as long as he's doing his job.

My gut tells me someone else will come close enough for Scherzer to not sign here.  I can't get mad at the Mets...they tried.  

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OK, a few things:

I'm sure some will say "Oh please...he's a merc!  Just came here for the money!"  I couldn't care less if that's the reason he came.  And guess what...LOTS of players have done that very thing, and many more will.  As long as he performs, no one is going to care.  Of course, if he suddenly declines and is no longer Max Scherzer, he'll hear about it plenty.  But not his fault that the Mets signed him for absolute top dollar.

And suffice it to say, in spite of some nonsense and scandals and other crap that seems destined to be part of the Met organization no matter who owns the team, Cohen definitely is doing exactly what we expected him to:  put every last dollar of his money where his mouth is.  Long gone are the days where David Wright's contract represented high-end for the Mets.  Cohen's nuts...he clearly doesn't give a fvck about the luxury tax...this guy is going to SPEND, to levels just about every other team won't.  It doesn't guarantee winning of course...but from now on, there's no doubt...if there's a player out there that the Mets want, money isn't ever going to stop them.  It's both scary and exciting.

As for this team...it's about as "right now" as it gets.  It has "Worst Team Money Could Buy" potential, but also "If This Team Can Avoid Injuries and Everyone Plays Well...Mets Bought Themselves a Friggin' World Series!"

Our team truly has a maverick, wild-west owner now.  Eppler's gotta be lovin' this...not that he was hamstrung before, but damn, I get the feeling there's no shackles at all.  Wild.  Crazy.  

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Unreal. I would've bet anything that Scherzer like others was just flirting with the Mets and using them to drive the price up elsewhere...or would gladly leave millions on the table to go sign elsewhere and just avoid the Mets. Seems like Cohen almost sort of lashed out with his money after being humiliated during the offseason GM search. This kind of offer...how can Scherzer possibly say no? 

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26 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

OK, a few things:

I'm sure some will say "Oh please...he's a merc!  Just came here for the money!"  I couldn't care less if that's the reason he came.  And guess what...LOTS of players have done that very thing, and many more will.  As long as he performs, no one is going to care.  Of course, if he suddenly declines and is no longer Max Scherzer, he'll hear about it plenty.  But not his fault that the Mets signed him for absolute top dollar.

And suffice it to say, in spite of some nonsense and scandals and other crap that seems destined to be part of the Met organization no matter who owns the team, Cohen definitely is doing exactly what we expected him to:  put every last dollar of his money where his mouth is.  Long gone are the days where David Wright's contract represented high-end for the Mets.  Cohen's nuts...he clearly doesn't give a fvck about the luxury tax...this guy is going to SPEND, to levels just about every other team won't.  It doesn't guarantee winning of course...but from now on, there's no doubt...if there's a player out there that the Mets want, money isn't ever going to stop them.  It's both scary and exciting.

As for this team...it's about as "right now" as it gets.  It has "Worst Team Money Could Buy" potential, but also "If This Team Can Avoid Injuries and Everyone Plays Well...Mets Bought Themselves a Friggin' World Series!"

Our team truly has a maverick, wild-west owner now.  Eppler's gotta be lovin' this...not that he was hamstrung before, but damn, I get the feeling there's no shackles at all.  Wild.  Crazy.  

I'm fine with that. He was nothing but a mercenary for the Nationals too who tried year after year to buy a World Series until they finally did in 2019 after having a top 5 or top 10 payrolls (and also sinking tons of $ into their minor league scouting and systems) for at least 5 or 6 consecutive years.

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1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

Take this rare opportunity to be happy Met fans. Who cares about the past- this was unexpected, it ain’t your money, and there isn’t any cap to worry about. Just enjoy this. 

For me, it's more what it represents, as far as Cohen's Mets go.  I think this year has made it clear that Cohen is absolutely going to spend whatever and whenever he wants, and won't hesitate to "buy" (read:  overpay) players that otherwise wouldn't have much interest in joining the Mets.  And like I said, if that's a weapon that you have in your arsenal, fine, use it.  If Scherzer pitches at or close to typical Scherzer and helps the Mets win ballgames, what the hell do I care if he came here strictly for the coin?  

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32 minutes ago, '7' said:

Unreal. I would've bet anything that Scherzer like others was just flirting with the Mets and using them to drive the price up elsewhere...or would gladly leave millions on the table to go sign elsewhere and just avoid the Mets. Seems like Cohen almost sort of lashed out with his money after being humiliated during the offseason GM search. This kind of offer...how can Scherzer possibly say no? 

Yeah I figured that he was trying to squeeze a little more out of another team.  And you're right, Cohen basically just said fvck it, how about $130 million?  Seriously, I think he might've been willing to go to $140 million, if that's what it would've taken to get it done.

If the Mets somehow dump Cano and eat his remaining money...then you REALLY know that money is no object to Cohen.  Not saying that he should do that or that I'm expecting it, but to basically eat THAT much money for nothing...that would truly be insane.  

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The fact we’ve already forgotten Cohen dropped a cool $137 million last week on Marte, Escobar and Canha shows what a new world this is. And no I don’t want to hear about how the Mets are becoming a soulless root for the laundry team, baseball has been root for the laundry since at least 1975, and only wasn’t earlier because of the artificial reserve clause. On some level I’m amused by the timeline of okay, you guys want to screw around with me not letting your people interview and if small time agents like Matz’s guy want to dick me around well bang, here’s $300 million with more coming - up yours MLB

If the Mets suddenly become Manchester City to the Yankees Manchester United that’d be just fine by me

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Of course the best way to build with always be with young, homegrown talent...but yeah, there's been plenty of big-spenders in MLB well before Cohen came aboard.  

And yeah, Cohen is clearly is pure F-you mode.  What was he...richer than the three teams behind him COMBINED?  The big question was how far was he really willing to go?  We're finding out.

As long as the Mets aren't breaking any rules and don't mind paying luxury taxes, all good, but the sport really could use a salary cap.    

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Cohen was at least as good as his word on the 'if you're gonna go over the tax you're not gonna go over it by a couple million' warning.

It's also much harder for me to take players and owners' whining about the economic state of baseball seriously when you have this much spending before the December deadline.  It wouldn't shock me if the Mets' spending spree scares the rest of MLB into more punitive luxury tax penalties although they'll never get the salary cap they really want.

It's also gone from likely to a practical near certainty that the Mets' next manager will have experience, both because of the bad stench they have from the last couple guys who had none and because you can't have a guy with no experience managing this team with all the big names coming in and expectations starting to spike up.

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28 minutes ago, NJDevs4978 said:

Cohen was at least as good as his word on the 'if you're gonna go over the tax you're not gonna go over it by a couple million' warning.

It's also much harder for me to take players and owners' whining about the economic state of baseball seriously when you have this much spending before the December deadline.  It wouldn't shock me if the Mets' spending spree scares the rest of MLB into more punitive luxury tax penalties although they'll never get the salary cap they really want.

It's also gone from likely to a practical near certainty that the Mets' next manager will have experience, both because of the bad stench they have from the last couple guys who had none and because you can't have a guy with no experience managing this team with all the big names coming in and expectations starting to spike up.

Yeah it's funny how these sides have no issues dealing with each other right up until the very end...with players being paid TONS.  It's all BS.  And yeah I get the feeling the Mets are on their way to spending in a different stratosphere than everyone else.  Even the Yankees (especially in recent years) take the luxury tax into account...I'm not so sure Cohen ever will.

Who do you think gets the managing gig?  I won't be surprised if it's Buck myself.  

 

And I know Scherzer's age is impossible to ignore...but damn, has he been an absolute beast in the NL to date.  If he can do that a couple more seasons, as much as someone can be worth over $40 million per season (?!), guess he will be.

Don't know if anyone's heard about this, but supposedly some variation of the DH rule for the NL is being kicked around...basically, as long as your starting pitcher stays in the game, your DH can hit...but as soon as you take out your starter, the next pitcher up will bat in the DH spot (unless he's then pinch-hit for).  

Sounds kinda interesting I guess, but of course what happens in games where you go with an opener?  And for guys trying to make a living as a DH, that's a good chunk less ABs per year...gotta think at least 100 less ABs in any given season, with this arrangement.  

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I think Brad Ausmus just cause of the whole analytic thing that I don't think Buck is too keen on (and we're still trying to be a little more analytic driven) but either way it's nice to have a GM who isn't going to be cowed by having a big-name manager.

The funny thing is because of all the spending around baseball I'm a lot less fatalistic about the length of a work stoppage as I was three months ago.

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I hate analytics myself...I know there's merit to them, but I just find them to be annoying (especially those who are complete slaves to them).  And hate what they've done to the game.  Can't say Ausmus would thrill me (feels like a total retread who hasn't accomplished much), but not like there's a ton of options out there.  

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What I would LOVE to see, whenever Max is introduced at the inevitable press conference:

"The Mets weren't really on my radar, but did you see what they offered me?  How could I say no to that?  I'm turning 38 halfway through next season!"

I wouldn't hold this against him in the slightest, because it's true, and it's fair...we knew this only happens through a massive overpayment, and to Cohen's credit, he was willing to go all the way (as we know, throughout Mets history it's been more tire-kicking and toe-dipping, with occasional and noteworthy exceptions).  Guess it would be nice just one to hear someone admit it...like I've said, it's all good.  Not one Mets fan is going to care about the reasons he came here...all he's gotta do is be 80-90% of what he's been in the NL, and not one of us will be unhappy with that.  Just don't be Tom Glavine Part Deux... 

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Baez to the Tigers, 6 years, $140 million.

I have zero issue with losing him...for one, I never liked the idea of Lindor and Baez somehow becoming some sort of leadership duo.  For another, no thanks to a guy with a lifetime .307 OB% and who strikes out an insane amount (even for today's game).  He did hit pretty well as a Met, but it didn't seem likely that he would've kept that up.  Tiger fans aren't exactly thrilled with the signing, which says plenty.  

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Apparently it'll just be one big zoom call with all the latest FA signings since they won't be able to have formal pressers during the lockout, fwiw.

I'm actually mildly surprised the Tigers settled for Baez when they had the Hinch-Correa connection, then again they got Baez at less than 50% than what Correa's gonna want.  If I knew we were getting the Baez that showed up here for two months I'd have been fine with bringing him back on that deal, but like you said it's hard to take what he did here (and in mostly junktime no less) that seriously when his whole career has been a hack-a-thon.  And yeah having the sulky kids' corner with Baez and Lindor wouldn't have been ideal although maybe at least Baez showed Lindor how to nut up a little bit under the criticism. 

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Yeah the Baez that played here was quite solid at the plate...that guy I definitely could've lived with coming back, sulky kids' corner (heh heh) and all.  But unless he somehow figured it all out overnight, his Mets body of work was most definitely an anomaly.

Will very interesting to see what Baez does with the Tigers for sure.

Will also be interesting to see what the Mets do next.  There's still holes to fill.  Also kind of aggravating that if they're clearly going to throw money around, why not try harder to keep Loup?  Not like they couldn't have used him next year.

Curious to see where Stroman ultimately lands.  Gotta admit, I'm not at all bullish on keeping him...he's a little too mouthy and cocky for someone who really isn't THAT good.  I don't think he's as good as his numbers from last season would lead some to believe (his WHIP from 2015-19 was 1.327; in 2021 it was 1.145).  Kudos to him in pitching well in a walk year, but I can see him being very ordinary next season.  

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Baez strikes me as a guy who's right at the tipping point age wise (29). His ilk (who are the ultimate free swingers, never walked more than 30 times a year, no plate discipline) when they decline the decline is swift and it's ugly. And it's not like he's a 40-50 HR guy...he's a 25-30 home run guy. Those K totals keep creeping up. 184 in 547 pa's is terrifying. A K per 2.97 pa's.

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Gsellman non-tendered.  Not surprised...seems like he was either hurt or often somewhere between bad and unpredictable.  Kinda glad that the Mets are showing signs of finally moving on from guys who just never seem to contribute.  

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50 minutes ago, '7' said:

Baez strikes me as a guy who's right at the tipping point age wise (29). His ilk (who are the ultimate free swingers, never walked more than 30 times a year, no plate discipline) when they decline the decline is swift and it's ugly. And it's not like he's a 40-50 HR guy...he's a 25-30 home run guy. Those K totals keep creeping up. 184 in 547 pa's is terrifying. A K per 2.97 pa's.

Yeah I didn't want him back for a lot of reasons...the above is one of them.  That is SO not a guy I want to lock in for 6 years.  What's funny is that what he signed for, he was seen as the "bargain" option, the Plan B...but he's still making a boatload.

Kinda sucks that the Mets just gave away a prospect for renting him.  Guess they had to do something, but of course, in typical Sandyball fashion, it was some pivot choice.  

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Max Scherzer explains why he decided to sign with Mets (yahoo.com)

We know that money played a HUGE role in his decision, but at least he tried to make it sound like other factors held more of a sway.  Not saying he's being disingenuous necessarily, but does he come here for a penny less than what the Mets gave him?  Kinda doubt it.  Like I said, I have no issue with Scherzer about this...lots of players take the most money, and as long as they do their jobs, no one cares one bit about it.  Would just be nice to hear someone dare to admit it.

Feels like the Mets' window is going to be small...get the feeling it's all-in for the next two seasons.  That means that given their core (which is not simply not great), they're probably going to have to try to buy a championship outright.  Eppler's going to have to realize that Captain Pivot fvcked up last year in signing McCan't...they've gotta explore upgrading there, or at least making sure he's not starting the majority of the Mets' games...let's face it, he went right back to being the guy Detroit no longer wanted.  That guy can't be playing in 121 games again.

But they're really going to have to go heavy in FA...I just don't think they have tons to offer in trades, though I guess there might be some teams who are looking to dump salary, that wouldn't ask for too much in return for a good player with a couple of solid years left.  And I can definitely see this thing crashing and burning hard in a few years...but that's a few years from now.  It's all about 2022 and 2023 (that's what happens when you sign a bunch of 30-somethings), and doing whatever has to be done to make this thing happen...no guarantees of course, but there can't be a sudden tightening of the purse-strings, or passing on yet another expensive move that makes too much sense to pass up.  Gotta be all about now...why sign Scherzer otherwise?

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