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UPDATE 3/11/22 - Wood Practicing (Non-Contact) Again - Had Hip Surgery 11/8/21


RunninWithTheDevil
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43 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

The pandemic has made it worse regarding incorrect interpretations of HIPAA.  A lot of people think it is a giant security blanket where no one is allowed to talk or ask about your medical information.

A lot of stink was made this past year about HIPAA in regards to vaccination status at work.  It is a HIPAA violation for a healthcare provider to release medical records of a person without the consent of the patient to an employer.  However, it is not a HIPAA violation where an employer can ask an employee for something like proof of vaccination or they will get fired.

Exactly. Your employer asking you for vaccination proof does not violate HIPAA. You are more than free to not give it to them, but that’s not based on HIPAA. 

They are also more than free to not allow you to work there.

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Here is how I think a sane organisation would handle this injury, let's see if we can all agree before someone gets eaten by a female hippo. 

Injury takes place.

Team announcement: Miles has picked up a knock. Its a lower body injury that will need to be assessed, currently the timeline for his return is unknown. 

A month down the line, they do some assessments and it's not looking great.

Team Announcement: After the initial assessment and tests the lower body injury is more serious than first expected. Miles will not be available to start the season. We will continue to review the situation and provide further details on the timeline when possible. 

Three months down the line, they have been assessing all the treatment to avoid surgery but that's not possible. It's not good he will be out for a while. 

Team announcement: After exhausting all alternative options Miles will now need surgery to repair his injury. We currently do not have a timeline for his return until the surgery is complete. We will provide an update when we have more information. 

 

How fvcking difficult is that? You are not giving away any personal information. You aren't pointing out the area that someone might target down the line. At the same time it gives the key info fans want, when are we likely to get our Wood back. 

The trouble with what the team do is the set fans false expectations early doors with language like day to day. Imagine if a delivery company did this, your package will be with you in 2-3 days. Those days pass, the delivery company are like , sorry still working on it, another couple of days. That sh!t is going to get old quick. Then imagine after a month of that they say "sorry we lost that package, no idea where it's gone" you are going to be pissed off.

This is the hockey version of that. 

13 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Exactly. Your employer asking you for vaccination proof does not violate HIPAA. You are more than free to not give it to them, but that’s not based on HIPAA. 

They are also more than free to not allow you to work there.

But who gets to keep the Hippo? 

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1 hour ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Here is how I think a sane organisation would handle this injury, let's see if we can all agree before someone gets eaten by a female hippo. 

Injury takes place.

Team announcement: Miles has picked up a knock. Its a lower body injury that will need to be assessed, currently the timeline for his return is unknown. 

A month down the line, they do some assessments and it's not looking great.

Team Announcement: After the initial assessment and tests the lower body injury is more serious than first expected. Miles will not be available to start the season. We will continue to review the situation and provide further details on the timeline when possible. 

Three months down the line, they have been assessing all the treatment to avoid surgery but that's not possible. It's not good he will be out for a while. 

Team announcement: After exhausting all alternative options Miles will now need surgery to repair his injury. We currently do not have a timeline for his return until the surgery is complete. We will provide an update when we have more information. 

 

How fvcking difficult is that? You are not giving away any personal information. You aren't pointing out the area that someone might target down the line. At the same time it gives the key info fans want, when are we likely to get our Wood back. 

The trouble with what the team do is the set fans false expectations early doors with language like day to day. Imagine if a delivery company did this, your package will be with you in 2-3 days. Those days pass, the delivery company are like , sorry still working on it, another couple of days. That sh!t is going to get old quick. Then imagine after a month of that they say "sorry we lost that package, no idea where it's gone" you are going to be pissed off.

This is the hockey version of that. 

Exactly this, well said and thank you. That's all I would ask for, or hope for, as a fan.

Just be upfront enough with the fans to allow us to set our expectations. The cynic in me thinks it's because they believe it will impact ticket sales, if fan favorites like Wood are announced as unlikely to return early enough in the season.

At this point I have zero actual faith in this organization to keep the fans in the loop. As someone else said, the team really does treat the fanbase like children. And if Twitter and the Devils subreddit are any indication, I don't think the team is very far off in their assessment. 

As an aside, this is why I very much so doubt we will see Jack before the end of the year. I am fully expecting him to miss a whole lot of additional time, with the team not giving us any indication of his timeline as we enter 2022.

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39 minutes ago, Satans Hockey said:

Really doesn't seem like this team can catch any breaks when it comes to staying healthy so far. Absolutely sucks. 

And yeah, sucks because this is a team that needs to stay as healthy as possible to consistently compete…there’s just too much of a dropoff when guys start getting called up from Utica.  Like I’ve said in the Utica thread, they have some solid AHLers and a few fine AHL vets, but a number of those guys aren’t going to do much in the NHL.

CD#9 pretty much nailed what I was going for…there’s ways to update fans without telling them every last thing, which was my point all along.

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6 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Here is how I think a sane organisation would handle this injury, let's see if we can all agree before someone gets eaten by a female hippo. 

Injury takes place.

Team announcement: Miles has picked up a knock. Its a lower body injury that will need to be assessed, currently the timeline for his return is unknown. 

A month down the line, they do some assessments and it's not looking great.

Team Announcement: After the initial assessment and tests the lower body injury is more serious than first expected. Miles will not be available to start the season. We will continue to review the situation and provide further details on the timeline when possible. 

Three months down the line, they have been assessing all the treatment to avoid surgery but that's not possible. It's not good he will be out for a while. 

Team announcement: After exhausting all alternative options Miles will now need surgery to repair his injury. We currently do not have a timeline for his return until the surgery is complete. We will provide an update when we have more information. 

 

How fvcking difficult is that? You are not giving away any personal information. You aren't pointing out the area that someone might target down the line. At the same time it gives the key info fans want, when are we likely to get our Wood back. 

The trouble with what the team do is the set fans false expectations early doors with language like day to day. Imagine if a delivery company did this, your package will be with you in 2-3 days. Those days pass, the delivery company are like , sorry still working on it, another couple of days. That sh!t is going to get old quick. Then imagine after a month of that they say "sorry we lost that package, no idea where it's gone" you are going to be pissed off.

This is the hockey version of that. 

Except this analogy doesn't work at all, you're comparing a situation where you're supposed to get a service and an item that is yours and that you paid for and you're not getting it. That's bad sure, we can all agree.

The Devils are still giving you devils hockey games. They are running a hockey team. The coaches are given those details cause they are directly involved and need to know.

We as fans don't NEED to know. We just want to. And there's a whole lot of people who can't understand the difference there apparently. We are not entitled to those details. 

I asked the question like 3-4 times now, still didn't get an answer. Why do you actually "need" that info beyond just wanting to know. Is you knowing going to help the team on the ice or have any impact on Miles health? They told us he's going to be out, that's all we actually need to know. 

 

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4 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Except this analogy doesn't work at all, you're comparing a situation where you're supposed to get a service and an item that is yours and that you paid for and you're not getting it. That's bad sure, we can all agree.

The Devils are still giving you devils hockey games. They are running a hockey team. The coaches are given those details cause they are directly involved and need to know.

We as fans don't NEED to know. We just want to. And there's a whole lot of people who can't understand the difference there apparently. We are not entitled to those details. 

I asked the question like 3-4 times now, still didn't get an answer. Why do you actually "need" that info beyond just wanting to know. Is you knowing going to help the team on the ice or have any impact on Miles health? They told us he's going to be out, that's all we actually need to know. 

 

Firstly, of course my analogy works! It's around being provided with updates on a subject or item you have a vested interest in. 

Analogies don't have to be situationally identical to work. If that was the case whenever you make a boyfriend/girlfriend analogy about hockey I could say "oh wait a minute, that doesn't work as there is no expectation that anyone involved is going to get to fvck the other one". 

Secondly, you are either being disingenuous or very naive if you don't think professional sport is a business delivering a service. Where do you think the term "on ice product" comes from?  Fans purchase that product through season tickets, media subscriptions or merch. There is an expectation like with any transaction that the customer would like to know what they are getting for their money.

As for your question , the reason no one is answering it is because you have answered it yourself. No one really does need to know. But you are missing the point because the reality is the team DOES provide updates. And people's issue is these updates aren't actually of any use, so why bother? 

There is no requirement for them to do this, the hockey operations manual only requires teams to declare a player is injured for the purpose of placing them on the IR list. They don't have to say what the injury is or how long the player will be out for. So if they don't have to do it, and they seemingly don't want to do it , why continue to do an incredibly sh!t job at it that helps no one? 

The crux of this at the end of the day for most people is if you are going to give us an update, make sure it's actually a meaningful useful update, if you are going to fvck around and be intentionally vague then don't bother. 

Entitlement would be expecting an update if the team had never ever given one out and it wasn't standard practice within the industry. All people are asking here is the team does a better job delivering something they have chosen to do. And I think my example above is a simple demonstration of how easy it could be to keep everyone happy. 

Edited by Chimaira_Devil_#9
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Honestly if you leave it up to the team they will never be honest about it.    The NHL should require official statuses like the NFL…  it won’t be fully transparent but at least better than this.    Especially with all the money in legal gambling that relies on this information.   

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2 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

If that was the case whenever you make a boyfriend/girlfriend analogy about hockey I could say "oh wait a minute, that doesn't work as there is no expectation that anyone involved is going to get to fvck the other one". 

I don’t think I agree, because a lot of our players have been fvcking us for years. 

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5 hours ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Firstly, of course my analogy works! It's around being provided with updates on a subject or item you have a vested interest in. 

Analogies don't have to be situationally identical to work. If that was the case whenever you make a boyfriend/girlfriend analogy about hockey I could say "oh wait a minute, that doesn't work as there is no expectation that anyone involved is going to get to fvck the other one". 

Secondly, you are either being disingenuous or very naive if you don't think professional sport is a business delivering a service. Where do you think the term "on ice product" comes from?  Fans purchase that product through season tickets, media subscriptions or merch. There is an expectation like with any transaction that the customer would like to know what they are getting for their money.

As for your question , the reason no one is answering it is because you have answered it yourself. No one really does need to know. But you are missing the point because the reality is the team DOES provide updates. And people's issue is these updates aren't actually of any use, so why bother? 

There is no requirement for them to do this, the hockey operations manual only requires teams to declare a player is injured for the purpose of placing them on the IR list. They don't have to say what the injury is or how long the player will be out for. So if they don't have to do it, and they seemingly don't want to do it , why continue to do an incredibly sh!t job at it that helps no one? 

The crux of this at the end of the day for most people is if you are going to give us an update, make sure it's actually a meaningful useful update, if you are going to fvck around and be intentionally vague then don't bother. 

Entitlement would be expecting an update if the team had never ever given one out and it wasn't standard practice within the industry. All people are asking here is the team does a better job delivering something they have chosen to do. And I think my example above is a simple demonstration of how easy it could be to keep everyone happy. 

I know about analogies but in the case you made you used an example where the service you "should" have been given wasn't given and another one when you shouldn't expect something and mad cause you're not getting it.

It's like sitting at a bar restaurant and the waitress is just walking around talking to her friends, on her phone and not coming to check on you at all, which is her job. That's perfectly normal to be upset at that cause she's not doing her job. What you guys are doing is sitting at a bar and being upset that the girl you have a crush on is not coming to see you, she did say hi but you wanted more. She doesn't have to and doesnt owe you that. You're just mad at your own expectations that aren't met. 

Ill repeat, you're getting upset at your own expectations and not by what you actually "deserve". Every game Wood isn't playing we know ahead of time, we know he hasnt been practicing, we know when he's been with the trainers, etc etc all we actually may need to know is if he's going to play the next game and they gave us that. Now they know he's going to miss a long period and we know that. 

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53 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

I know about analogies but in the case you made you used an example where the service you "should" have been given wasn't given and another one when you shouldn't expect something and mad cause you're not getting it.

It's like sitting at a bar restaurant and the waitress is just walking around talking to her friends, on her phone and not coming to check on you at all, which is her job. That's perfectly normal to be upset at that cause she's not doing her job. What you guys are doing is sitting at a bar and being upset that the girl you have a crush on is not coming to see you. She doesn't have to and doesnt owe you that. You're just mad at your own expectations that aren't met. 

Ill repeat, you're getting upset at your own expectations and not by what you actually "deserve". Every game Wood isn't playing we know ahead of time, we know he hasnt been practicing, we know when he's been with the trainers, etc etc all we actually may need to know is if he's going to play the next game and they gave us that. Now they know he's going to miss a long period and we know that. 

Dude is am not going down that rabbit hole with what you posted, my analogy (starting to hate that word) works absolutely fine. I am not going to break down yours as it works on the premise there is no standing/pre existing interaction between those involved, which I don't believe is the case in this situation. 

You keep skirting around the fact that there is a level of service provision in pro sports. If you don't believe this is a transactional relationship then there is no point in continuing the discussion. 

I will say this again so it is clear.

Despite it not being a requirement it is accepted industry practice to provide updates on injured players. All 32 NHL teams do this.  The Devil's are notoriously poor at handling this process. 

The team is often misleading in terms of the situation (either consciously or unconsciously) and THEY often set fans unrealistic expectations due to the quality of the announcements they make. 

In this specific case they have used the words "day to day" and "bumps and bruises" to describe the situation. That is what set fan expectation. The team made a rod for its own back. Fans didn't make that up, no one was expecting Woods injury to be minor UNTIL the team alluded to this in its statement. 

Later down the line when they then backtrack and try and reset the expectations they set in the first place it makes people angry. 

In simple terms I think what you are saying is "the team owes you nothing, be grateful for what you get" and what others are saying is " if you are going to tell us a load of old bollocks , don't bother, because it's not worth the paper it's written on".  That is really it. If you are going to do something , do it properly or not at all. 

If the Devil's attitude is aligned to yours then don't waste my time and just keep quiet. 

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10 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Except this analogy doesn't work at all, you're comparing a situation where you're supposed to get a service and an item that is yours and that you paid for and you're not getting it. That's bad sure, we can all agree.

The Devils are still giving you devils hockey games. They are running a hockey team. The coaches are given those details cause they are directly involved and need to know.

We as fans don't NEED to know. We just want to. And there's a whole lot of people who can't understand the difference there apparently. We are not entitled to those details. 

I asked the question like 3-4 times now, still didn't get an answer. Why do you actually "need" that info beyond just wanting to know. Is you knowing going to help the team on the ice or have any impact on Miles health? They told us he's going to be out, that's all we actually need to know. 

 

Oh FFS you have reamed the Canadiens for less sh!t than this.  Just stop.

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7 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Dude is am not going down that rabbit hole with what you posted, my analogy (starting to hate that word) works absolutely fine. I am not going to break down yours as it works on the premise there is no standing/pre existing interaction between those involved, which I don't believe is the case in this situation. 

You keep skirting around the fact that there is a level of service provision in pro sports. If you don't believe this is a transactional relationship then there is no point in continuing the discussion. 

I will say this again so it is clear.

Despite it not being a requirement it is accepted industry practice to provide updates on injured players. All 32 NHL teams do this.  The Devil's are notoriously poor at handling this process. 

The team is often misleading in terms of the situation (either consciously or unconsciously) and THEY often set fans unrealistic expectations due to the quality of the announcements they make. 

In this specific case they have used the words "day to day" and "bumps and bruises" to describe the situation. That is what set fan expectation. The team made a rod for its own back. Fans didn't make that up, no one was expecting Woods injury to be minor UNTIL the team alluded to this in its statement. 

Later down the line when they then backtrack and try and reset the expectations they set in the first place it makes people angry. 

In simple terms I think what you are saying is "the team owes you nothing, be grateful for what you get" and what others are saying is " if you are going to tell us a load of old bollocks , don't bother, because it's not worth the paper it's written on".  That is really it. If you are going to do something , do it properly or not at all. 

If the Devil's attitude is aligned to yours then don't waste my time and just keep quiet. 

In sports betting, I can imagine you would like to know what players are available to play versus injured before placing your bet.

When buying tickets, you would probably want to know if your favorite player is going to be healthy to play rather than wasting money and not seeing that player because he is injured.

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10 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Dude is am not going down that rabbit hole with what you posted, my analogy (starting to hate that word) works absolutely fine. I am not going to break down yours as it works on the premise there is no standing/pre existing interaction between those involved, which I don't believe is the case in this situation. 

You keep skirting around the fact that there is a level of service provision in pro sports. If you don't believe this is a transactional relationship then there is no point in continuing the discussion. 

I will say this again so it is clear.

Despite it not being a requirement it is accepted industry practice to provide updates on injured players. All 32 NHL teams do this.  The Devil's are notoriously poor at handling this process. 

The team is often misleading in terms of the situation (either consciously or unconsciously) and THEY often set fans unrealistic expectations due to the quality of the announcements they make. 

In this specific case they have used the words "day to day" and "bumps and bruises" to describe the situation. That is what set fan expectation. The team made a rod for its own back. Fans didn't make that up, no one was expecting Woods injury to be minor UNTIL the team alluded to this in its statement. 

Later down the line when they then backtrack and try and reset the expectations they set in the first place it makes people angry. 

In simple terms I think what you are saying is "the team owes you nothing, be grateful for what you get" and what others are saying is " if you are going to tell us a load of old bollocks , don't bother, because it's not worth the paper it's written on".  That is really it. If you are going to do something , do it properly or not at all. 

If the Devil's attitude is aligned to yours then don't waste my time and just keep quiet. 

So do you think it's possible that Miles was feeling off or hurting. The first diagnostic  they came up with was something that should have been getting better in a few days. So their day-to-day based on their diagnostic was correct at the time. But then it wasn't getting better and they waited a bit and kept testing it (as reported that he was training with the staff) and kept making more test (as they also said they were). Then figured it may be more serious with his hip. And they were waiting to know if he was getting a surgery and when they did and knew for sure they announced it.

I truly dont' see any extra details they had to tell us. We were told he was out. You guys appear to believe that they knew all along he was getting hip surgery and just lied for the sake of it. 

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3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

So do you think it's possible that Miles was feeling off or hurting. The first diagnostic  they came up with was something that should have been getting better in a few days. So their day-to-day based on their diagnostic was correct at the time. But then it wasn't getting better and they waited a bit and kept testing it (as reported that he was training with the staff) and kept making more test (as they also said they were). Then figured it may be more serious with his hip. And they were waiting to know if he was getting a surgery and when they did and knew for sure they announced it.

I truly dont' see any extra details they had to tell us. We were told he was out. You guys appear to believe that they knew all along he was getting hip surgery and just lied for the sake of it. 

I have set out pretty clearly how I would handle it and how I think the Devil's could improve this aspect of their operation. There is no point in going round in circles. We have different takes. 

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Now we know what's going on does Fitz need to look to make a trade to cover the gap? 

Wood has a unique skillset that no one else really has on the team. Similarly there are no players at AHL that are immediate replacements. Tyce Thompson can get goals in the dirty areas but I wouldn't say he is physical. 

Do you look at Vegas who will need to start working on their cap situation to make room for Eichel? 

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12 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Now we know what's going on does Fitz need to look to make a trade to cover the gap? 

Wood has a unique skillset that no one else really has on the team. Similarly there are no players at AHL that are immediate replacements. Tyce Thompson can get goals in the dirty areas but I wouldn't say he is physical. 

Do you look at Vegas who will need to start working on their cap situation to make room for Eichel? 

Maybe a deal for Marchessault? Not sure what the cost would be though, probably higher than not

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