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2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

You can't assume that he wasn't simply because there was no results in the end. God knows if he tried and what was available and at what cost. And the cost it might have cost might not have been worth it and fitting the plan.

The coaching staff i certainly won't defend him on that, it's absolutely ridiculous. 

And you are speculating as much as me.  Typically there are whispers from the usual insiders.  However I didn't hear anything about the Devils at all this season so I am assuming he didn't really make much of an attempt.  Plus his quote of saying that "the answer is in that room" also makes me believe that a serious attempt was likely not made.

Sometimes as a GM you have to be bold.  Lou traded Arnott, the center of the best line in Devils history who scored the cup-winning goal less than 2 years prior along with a long-time vet in McKay for Nieuwendyk and Langs during the season.  He traded Burke and Weinrich for Holik.  He traded our best point-producing D-man in Kurvers for Toronto's first rounder, Rolston for Claude Lemieux round 2, etc.  You can bash Lou all you want (yet again) but at least he had some cajones and took risks.  Shero and Fitz seem perfectly fine trading away parts and picks for other team's most expendable players.

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5 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

"Do, or do fvcking not. There is no try." lol do you honestly think it's that easy to make trades that work in your favour in the NHL? 

Every GM "want to win the cup". It's not a do or do not kind of thing. How absurd is that statement lol

He said he wanted to play meaningul game. He never promised that we would. You're acting like he promised something. 

 

If it was as hard as you say it is, you never get trades like Larsson for Hall, the Gomez for McDonough, and Brassard for Zibanejad trades.

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3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

And you are speculating as much as me.  Typically there are whispers from the usual insiders.  However I didn't hear anything about the Devils at all this season so I am assuming he didn't really make much of an attempt.  Plus his quote of saying that "the answer is in that room" also makes me believe that a serious attempt was likely not made.

Sometimes as a GM you have to be bold.  Lou traded Arnott, the center of the best line in Devils history who scored the cup-winning goal less than 2 years prior along with a long-time vet in McKay for Nieuwendyk and Langs during the season.  He traded Burke and Weinrich for Holik.  He traded our best point-producing D-man in Kurvers for Toronto's first rounder, Rolston for Claude Lemieux round 2, etc.  You can bash Lou all you want (yet again) but at least he had some cajones and took risks.  Shero and Fitz seem perfectly fine trading away parts and picks for other team's most expendable players.

Exactly. Between Shero and Fitz, has there been even ONE bold move? Larsson for Hall is all that comes to mind. And that wasn’t as much bold as it was just a no-fvcking-brainer. It’s all been safe, low risk, high reward moves. Nothing out of the box. Nothing bold. Nothing even remotely risky. And guess what? Safe is death. 

Edited by MadDog2020
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1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

‘We tried’ is such a cop out. As if we’ll ever actually know what was tried. It’s a get out jail free card basically. 

Well its not perfect but its realistic. It sure beat assuming nothing was even attempted cause we see no results, thats as shortsighted as it gets. 

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2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well its not perfect but its realistic. It sure beat assuming nothing was even attempted cause we see no results, thats as shortsighted as it gets. 

Refer back to one of DM84’s posts above. It doesn’t sound like much has been attempted. 

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22 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

And you are speculating as much as me.  Typically there are whispers from the usual insiders.  However I didn't hear anything about the Devils at all this season so I am assuming he didn't really make much of an attempt.  Plus his quote of saying that "the answer is in that room" also makes me believe that a serious attempt was likely not made.

Sometimes as a GM you have to be bold.  Lou traded Arnott, the center of the best line in Devils history who scored the cup-winning goal less than 2 years prior along with a long-time vet in McKay for Nieuwendyk and Langs during the season.  He traded Burke and Weinrich for Holik.  He traded our best point-producing D-man in Kurvers for Toronto's first rounder, Rolston for Claude Lemieux round 2, etc.  You can bash Lou all you want (yet again) but at least he had some cajones and took risks.  Shero and Fitz seem perfectly fine trading away parts and picks for other team's most expendable players.

Yeah, im speculating but im not crucifying someone without facts. There's the difference. 

And as a GM you have to be bold when the situation is right.

To me it's pretty clear that the goal of this season was the "show improvement" with what we had and that we'd improve if we can and if it makes sense. 

our 2 goalies went down and a lot more went wrong. For the long term benefit of this team, we need to ADD to this roster. So you think trading assets and roster player to land a 3rd NHL goalie is the way to go? I'm sure it's an option, but might not be that smart and the cost might be high too. I mean... just try. Come up with a realistic trade that everyone here would agree with. Try trading for an establish and solid goalie... without sending one back, since we cant since they are both injured.

 This is typical fans begging for panic moves so that they feel better now while the team is following a long-term plan

And again, seeing how they are not willing to do something for the coaches. Maybe there's something there too. I dont know and i wont defend that for sure. Only thing i can say is that maybe they have something planned already for this summer and see no point in getting a temporary coach for only a few months. i mena... i sure hope its something like that.

 

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Good thing it's not a results oriented business or tons of folks would be f*cked out of their jobs, coaches, front office, players etc.  But instead the bottom feeder complacency is acceptable and can carry on.  Actually some minimum wage ticket reps will probably get sh!tcanned because they didn't meet their sales targets. 

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16 minutes ago, titans04 said:

Good thing it's not a results oriented business or tons of folks would be f*cked out of their jobs, coaches, front office, players etc.  But instead the bottom feeder complacency is acceptable and can carry on.  Actually some minimum wage ticket reps will probably get sh!tcanned because they didn't meet their sales targets. 

Exactly, meanwhile they’ve been asked to sell tickets to essentially stand in line and get kicked in the balls. 

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3 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Well for the goalies, you have 2 goalies signed for the next 2 seasons and you're rebuilding. One of them is at that time considered a solid goalie, even team canada has him for an option for the olympics.

Do you really go and trade assets to get ANOTHER goalie? In a season we were not really projected to make the playoffs anyway?

At the time they were also aware that Blackwood was coming off of surgery and wasn’t a lock to be ready for the season. I don’t think they realized the extent of Bernier’s injury when they exposed Wedge to waivers. Then again, Wedge isn’t exactly a solution either 


As for next season… It’ll depend on the prognosis of Bernier I’d guess. They’ll have to see how he responds to the surgery and rehab before they can make a long term move. We really have to hope Mac recovers and can get back to some of the form he had in the past. That’s just a lot of question marks going into next year as well. 

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Do I expect Fitz to perform a miracle or sell the future to try and pretty up a sh!t sandwich? Absolutely/obviously not and I would be mad if he did the latter. However, I believe the Stars waived Khudobin right around when Mac was having issues(not 100% on the timeline). Despite that he is not an ideal option, and hasn't done well this season in the games he did play-- I am not sure why they chose to instead go with Gillies, a career non-NHL caliber player, and a young inexperienced Nico Daws over a guy that they could have gotten for "free" and at least has some NHL experience. They aren't stupid. They had to have known this was the likely outcome. They wrote the season off.

EDIT: To be clear, I am more mad they wrote the season off and paid us more lip service than I am being unwilling to understand/accept that we got handed some sh!t luck.

Edited by NJDevils1214
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4 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

Do I expect Fitz to perform a miracle or sell the future to try and pretty up a sh!t sandwich? Absolutely/obviously not and I would be mad if he did the latter. However, I believe the Stars waived Khudobin right around when Mac was having issues(not 100% on the timeline). Despite that he is not an ideal option, and hasn't done well this season in the games he did play-- I am not sure why they chose to instead go with Gillies, a career non-NHL caliber player, and a young inexperienced Nico Daws over a guy that they could have gotten for "free" and at least has some NHL experience. They aren't stupid. They had to have known this was the likely outcome. They wrote the season off.

It’s 100% by design. Anyone who thinks they “missed out” on some other goalie isn’t paying attention. 

Khudobin wasn't the answer, he would look exactly the same as the others, getting hung out to dry multiple times a night by an inept and misaligned defense 

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2 hours ago, MadDog2020 said:

Spot on. HE said those things. No one put a gun to Fitz’s head and made him say he wanted meaningful games in March. He VOLUNTEERED that to us. But his ‘actions’, or lack thereof, tell a COMPLETELY different story. I don’t wanna hear ‘what could he have done?’ The fact is he didn’t do sh!t. And I don’t wanna hear later that he ‘tried’ or some bullsh!t. Do, or do fvcking not. There is no try. 

To be clear, I was referring to the goalie situation specifically.  I absolutely think he could’ve canned the coaching staff.  I would’ve been on board with some tweaks elsewhere too.

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2 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

At the time they were also aware that Blackwood was coming off of surgery and wasn’t a lock to be ready for the season. I don’t think they realized the extent of Bernier’s injury when they exposed Wedge to waivers. Then again, Wedge isn’t exactly a solution either 


As for next season… It’ll depend on the prognosis of Bernier I’d guess. They’ll have to see how he responds to the surgery and rehab before they can make a long term move. We really have to hope Mac recovers and can get back to some of the form he had in the past. That’s just a lot of question marks going into next year as well. 

yeah it sucks to have those questions.

But it could be all irrelevant if they bring up the same coaching staff. Which is why i'm hoping we fvcking stink for the rest of the season. Not even draft related, cause i think we should trade that pick. But we simply cannot go in next season with Nasredine. And it appears that it will require something incredible to make that happen at this point

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34 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

yeah it sucks to have those questions.

But it could be all irrelevant if they bring up the same coaching staff. Which is why i'm hoping we fvcking stink for the rest of the season. Not even draft related, cause i think we should trade that pick. But we simply cannot go in next season with Nasredine. And it appears that it will require something incredible to make that happen at this point

You’re right. It’s really insane. Even if you want to keep Ruff on, fine. I see no point to hold on to Nas for a second longer. They should have let Ruff pick his own assistants 

Edited by Devil Dan 56
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15 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

You’re right. It’s really insane. Even if you want to keep Ruff on, fine. I see no point to hold on to Nas for a second longer. They should have let Ruff pick his own assistants 

Isn't the whole thing weird?

Nasreddine was brought in with Hynes in 2015. Never had success. So what are they seeing like... how could he possibly still have a job?

 

================

ok. ugh. I hate hypocrisy so I have to admit how this post went... i typed all this up there and that's what i was convinced of and believed 200%. Then i went to find at the actual stats to support my point/narrative, and by wanting to be fair and add context i was even going to bring up "and sure, he didn't have a good roster to play with but still, he never showed his system worked" or something along those lines. I fully expected us to be near the bottom of the league every year.

So..... the stats for our PK through his tenure... 

2015-2016 - 8th

2016-2017 - 23rd

2017-2018 - 8th

2018-2019 - 4th

2019-2020 - 7th

2020-2021 - 31st

2021-2022 - 8th (so far)

I'm kind of numb typing this... but it's actually... good... really good.... considering what he had to work with...

 

so.... Still... i still want him gone cause what im seeing with my own eyes and how our guys are positioning themselves 5 on 5 and everything else tells me he has to go.

I'm not gonna look up any stats on that though cause... i can't hit a wall like this twice today

 

Edited by SterioDesign
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15 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Yeah, im speculating but im not crucifying someone without facts. There's the difference. 

And as a GM you have to be bold when the situation is right.

To me it's pretty clear that the goal of this season was the "show improvement" with what we had and that we'd improve if we can and if it makes sense. 

our 2 goalies went down and a lot more went wrong. For the long term benefit of this team, we need to ADD to this roster. So you think trading assets and roster player to land a 3rd NHL goalie is the way to go? I'm sure it's an option, but might not be that smart and the cost might be high too. I mean... just try. Come up with a realistic trade that everyone here would agree with. Try trading for an establish and solid goalie... without sending one back, since we cant since they are both injured.

 This is typical fans begging for panic moves so that they feel better now while the team is following a long-term plan

And again, seeing how they are not willing to do something for the coaches. Maybe there's something there too. I dont know and i wont defend that for sure. Only thing i can say is that maybe they have something planned already for this summer and see no point in getting a temporary coach for only a few months. i mena... i sure hope its something like that.

 

If the goal of this season is to show improvement, then the season was a spectacular failure.  Sure guys like Hughes and Bratt took step forwards and guys like Hamilton, Graves, Siegs, etc. looked like they belong, but the team overall is still stuck in the toilet.  We had just as many, if not more guys who didn't improve or took steps back.

The confidence in Blackwood with or without injury is still pretty shaky with the front office that they had to get a 1B goalie, twice.  Bernier going down with a hip injury (they have known this since very early in the season when he was scratched/placed on IR due to it) only adds more of the urgency to get another goalie as we all know hip injuries can be devastating to goalies (see: Schneider, Cory).

Where did I say the team should make a panic move?  Teams are absolutely allowed to not be only sellers at the deadline and trade picks/parts for other team's most expendable players which is what the Devils have largely done to somehow "improve" the team.  Teams are allowed to make trades outside of the trade deadline and summer which Fitz seems to have forgotten for the past 2 seasons.  You can make bold moves to improve your team rather than constantly follow a long-term plan that hasn't worked out in it's X-th interation over the past decade.

Also, Fitz shouldn't be making declarations of playing meaningful games in March when he goes MIA as the ship starts taking on water.  Either he is incompetent or he is being told to stand pat from above (which is even more frightening scenario).

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14 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

It’s 100% by design. Anyone who thinks they “missed out” on some other goalie isn’t paying attention. 

Khudobin wasn't the answer, he would look exactly the same as the others, getting hung out to dry multiple times a night by an inept and misaligned defense 

I agree that Khudobin wasn't the answer.  The answer would have been a trade.  However, it seems like our GM as adverse to taking risks and would rather stick with low-risk, high-reward type deals that bust far more often than hit.

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2 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I agree that Khudobin wasn't the answer.  The answer would have been a trade.  However, it seems like our GM as adverse to taking risks and would rather stick with low-risk, high-reward type deals that bust far more often than hit.

Alternately, the decision had been made that this season was fvcked and we went into tank mode. 

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12 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Isn't the whole thing weird?

Nasreddine was brought in with Hynes in 2015. Never had success. So what are they seeing like... how could he possibly still have a job?

 

================

ok. ugh. I hate hypocrisy so I have to admit how this post went... i typed all this up there and that's what i was convinced of and believed 200%. Then i went to find at the actual stats to support my point/narrative, and by wanting to be fair and add context i was even going to bring up "and sure, he didn't have a good roster to play with but still, he never showed his system worked" or something along those lines. I fully expected us to be near the bottom of the league every year.

So..... the stats for our PK through his tenure... 

2015-2016 - 8th

2016-2017 - 23rd

2017-2018 - 8th

2018-2019 - 4th

2020-2021 - 7th

2021-2022 - 8th (so far)

I'm kind of numb typing this... but it's actually... good... really good.... considering what he had to work with...

 

so.... Still... i still want him gone cause what im seeing with my own eyes and how our guys are positioning themselves 5 on 5 and everything else tells me he has to go.

I'm not gonna look up any stats on that though cause... i can't hit a wall like this twice today

 

PK in 2020-21 was 70.95%...dead last in the NHL.

2020-21 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com

2015-16 - 8th (correct)

2016-17 - 23rd (correct)

2017-18 - 7th (tied with Calgary)

2018-19 - 4th (correct)

2019-20 - 7th (correct)

I see what you did...you left out 2019-20, and tied that year's rank to 2020-21.  

But yeah, even with last year being awful and 2016-17 not being good, overall the PK under nASS hasn't been as bad as it feels like.

That being said, yeah, the 5-on-5 D play is just dreadful.  And not improving.  

 

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2 hours ago, DevsMan84 said:

If the goal of this season is to show improvement, then the season was a spectacular failure.  Sure guys like Hughes and Bratt took step forwards and guys like Hamilton, Graves, Siegs, etc. looked like they belong, but the team overall is still stuck in the toilet.  We had just as many, if not more guys who didn't improve or took steps back.

The confidence in Blackwood with or without injury is still pretty shaky with the front office that they had to get a 1B goalie, twice.  Bernier going down with a hip injury (they have known this since very early in the season when he was scratched/placed on IR due to it) only adds more of the urgency to get another goalie as we all know hip injuries can be devastating to goalies (see: Schneider, Cory).

Where did I say the team should make a panic move?  Teams are absolutely allowed to not be only sellers at the deadline and trade picks/parts for other team's most expendable players which is what the Devils have largely done to somehow "improve" the team.  Teams are allowed to make trades outside of the trade deadline and summer which Fitz seems to have forgotten for the past 2 seasons.  You can make bold moves to improve your team rather than constantly follow a long-term plan that hasn't worked out in it's X-th interation over the past decade.

Also, Fitz shouldn't be making declarations of playing meaningful games in March when he goes MIA as the ship starts taking on water.  Either he is incompetent or he is being told to stand pat from above (which is even more frightening scenario).

So for how long are you planning on totally ignoring that he said he WANTED to play meaningful games in March and did not like PROMISED that the team would. You really need to grasp that very basic thing.

You can say in August that you want to go on vacations in March if possible. But you lose your job a few months later, that your dog is pregnant and due around march, your mom is hospitalized and that there's covid restrictions making travelling complicated and more expensive.

It's totally understandable to just go "well, i guess it won't happen this year, IF something comes up and that it works, i'll go but i should wait til the situation is better", rather than going on vacations when you can't really afford it and that it just doesnt work with your life after all.

 

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15 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

So for how long are you planning on totally ignoring that he said he WANTED to play meaningful games in March and did not like PROMISED that the team would. You really need to grasp that very basic thing.

Not the point. The point is he said it, and then punted the season before Christmas. So I’m sorry, that’s not acceptable. 

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44 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

So for how long are you planning on totally ignoring that he said he WANTED to play meaningful games in March and did not like PROMISED that the team would. You really need to grasp that very basic thing.

You can say in August that you want to go on vacations in March if possible. But you lose your job a few months later, that your dog is pregnant and due around march, your mom is hospitalized and that there's covid restrictions making travelling complicated and more expensive.

It's totally understandable to just go "well, i guess it won't happen this year, IF something comes up and that it works, i'll go but i should wait til the situation is better", rather than going on vacations when you can't really afford it and that it just doesnt work with your life after all.

 

He WANTED to play meaningful games in March and did little to nothing when that possibility started getting in jeopardy.

I am not upset at Fitz that things went awry (and did so pretty quickly), but that he sat on his hands instead.  I know this flies in the face of your "everyone but Lou is a better GM!" schtick you have put on for years, but there is a possibility that Fitz just might not be as good (or as crafty) as we think he is.

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20 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Not the point. The point is he said it, and then punted the season before Christmas. So I’m sorry, that’s not acceptable. 

Exactly. He WANTED it and then proceeded to do diddly squat to actually DO it. When a GM lays down that kind of expectation and the team woefully misses it, there should be some sort of adjustment other than a shoulder shrug and a Severson-style oh well gee shucks we tried. Since 2018 the team has regressed on the ice. 

 

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