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1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

he traded for Gillies. So this makes your "no move" claim a straight up lie

This is straight trolling. That was only a ‘move’ in the literal sense of the word. So get the fvck outta here with this. 

Edited by MadDog2020
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33 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

If you have to literally project and make up what someone would say to discredit their point... maybe you don't have a point lol

Nearly 14 years of discourse between the two of us isn’t just projecting. If I say my dog is going to bark when the UPS guy rings the bell I’m not projecting that behavior on him, I’m commenting on a patterned behavior based on 10 years of knowing him. “It takes two to tango” or a variation of that is your favorite thing in the world when you want to soil an argument down to baseless conjecture.

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36 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

This is straight trollling. That was only a ‘move’ in the literal sense of the word. So get the fvck outta here with this. 

That’s like saying “I helped save the bleeding guy on the side of the road’s life” because you yelled “AH sh!t SORRY BRO FEEL BETTER” as you drove past it.

He slapped a bandaid on a dam and said “yeah that’ll do”  

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

he traded for Gillies. So this makes your "no move" claim a straight up lie

He traded for Gillies because we literally didn’t have enough goalies between injuries and Covid. It was that or Scott Clemmensen at that point 

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5 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

He traded for Gillies because we literally didn’t have enough goalies between injuries and Covid. It was that or Scott Clemmensen at that point 

A trade in the literal sense, but Fitz practically sent a Starbucks card back to STL.

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1 hour ago, MB3 said:

Nearly 14 years of discourse between the two of us isn’t just projecting. If I say my dog is going to bark when the UPS guy rings the bell I’m not projecting that behavior on him, I’m commenting on a patterned behavior based on 10 years of knowing him. “It takes two to tango” or a variation of that is your favorite thing in the world when you want to soil an argument down to baseless conjecture.

It's only soiling arguments for people who want to use their own projections as facts. Sorry but that's just a fact. You seeing no trade happen and assuming that a GM sat on his hand not even trying to explore options is not fact. It's a projection.

And your argument about Lou was false and i explained why.

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1 hour ago, MB3 said:

Nearly 14 years of discourse between the two of us isn’t just projecting. If I say my dog is going to bark when the UPS guy rings the bell I’m not projecting that behavior on him, I’m commenting on a patterned behavior based on 10 years of knowing him. “It takes two to tango” or a variation of that is your favorite thing in the world when you want to soil an argument down to baseless conjecture.

Weiner. 

1 hour ago, NJDevils1214 said:

A trade in the literal sense, but Fitz practically sent a Starbucks card back to STL.

Those things are like fvcking gold to my 14 year old. 

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18 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

Thats the biggest cop out ever.

"I don't care if what he has to do is realistic or not, all i want is hate on him cause i don't see results. That's his job not mine!"

haha such a coward stance and proving that all you want to do is whine to feel better about it.

I don't care about being wrong here. Just prove that you're willing to understand context rather than expecting someone to do something that may not be realistic at all cause you think getting a starting goalie is something you can just go to walmart and put in your cart. What i asked you to do is incredibly fair. Just give me a few names of goalies around the league who you think could have put us in the playoffs and that we could have traded for. There's only 60ish goalies, can't be that hard to name a few. 

It's you guys lacking balls and creativity, clearly.

lol it's not a cop out.  Every other response knows exactly where this is going with you.  I can make up the most fair, realistic trade and you will still have some issue with it.  Why waste my breath on that?

Again, I can't read other GM's minds.  There are "even" trades that I can name and then there are the Larsson for Hall type trades I can also name.  What value should I put out there?

The only thing I know for certain is that Fitz's only move this season was picking up Bastain, a very recent former player they didn't want to part with to begin with, on waivers and getting Gillies for "future considerations" because we were in a manpower jam and just needed a warm body.  Other GM's having similarly hard seasons this season have done more to salvage their season (Philly, Vancouver, etc) while others have done less.  My issue is that this is yet again another year where our major moves consists of being sellers at the deadline or trading picks/spare parts for players in these low-risk/high-reward type of trades.  If that is the extent of Fitz's creativity, in the same season where he proclaimed he wanted to play meaningful games in March, then I am genuinely concerned if he is the right guy for us as GM.

Edited by DevsMan84
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16 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

If you have to literally project and make up what someone would say to discredit their point... maybe you don't have a point lol

How do you know no answers would satisfy me? it's not about me. It's about those guys understanding what they are expecting. You can't have realistic expectations if you don't know what a person has to do and has to work with. That's just common sense. 

Saying that it takes 2 to tango is a legit claim. It's not saying that something was done either. It's just saying that you can't crucify someone for NOT DOING ANYTHING, when you don't know for a fact that he didn't do anything. No trade happening straight up doesn't mean no trade was attempted, that's pure fact. It's incredibly basic.

Also why would I not give that excuse to Lou? You're full of sh!t and IF i'd actually say that, it would be in context of Lou not trading an upcoming UFA he's going to lose for nothing, and it's very well documented that he wouldn't attempt to sign or trade him. Very different than what you're projecting here.

I also didnt imply that there isn't trade to be made, i implied that it's a lot more tricky than some may think.  A lot of fans straight up believe that if a GM want something, he can just get it if he really wants to and that if he does that the cost would be worth it. It's insanely stupid.

 

 

Oh stop.  No one believes that.  We just see other GM's doing something to salvage their season or make their teams better while our current and previous GM had no problems punting the season away by Christmas and make promises of better days ahead that never comes.

You have effectively nailed Lou to cross for years for not doing all these what-if scenarios with Parise in his final season here.  Again, I think you real reason for defending Shero/Fitz is that it flies in the face of your "anybody but Lou is a better GM!" schtick you still put on.  )FWIW, I now fully expect you to post the 2014-15 lineup and say something like "well this is what he left us with!").

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15 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

He traded for Gillies because we literally didn’t have enough goalies between injuries and Covid. It was that or Scott Clemmensen at that point 

He was literally the first warm body that was available for practically nothing and somehow we have to consider that as proof that Fitz was trying to do something lol.

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1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

lol it's not a cop out.  Every other response knows exactly where this is going with you.  I can make up the most fair, realistic trade and you will still have some issue with it.  Why waste my breath on that?

Again, I can't read other GM's minds.  There are "even" trades that I can name and then there are the Larsson for Hall type trades I can also name.  What value should I put out there?

The only thing I know for certain is that Fitz's only move this summer was picking up Bastain, a very recent former player they didn't want to part with to begin with, on waivers and getting Gillies for "future considerations" because we were in a manpower jam and just needed a warm body.  Other GM's having similarly hard seasons this season have done more to salvage their season (Philly, Vancouver, etc) while others have done less.  My issue is that this is yet again another year where our major moves consists of being sellers at the deadline or trading picks/spare parts for players in these low-risk/high-reward type of trades.  If that is the extent of Fitz's creativity, in the same season where he proclaimed he wanted to play meaningful games in March, then I am genuinely concerned if he is the right guy for us as GM.

Why would i have an issue with it. It's not about me at all. The whole thing is about YOU expecting something that may or may not even be possible, so the least you could do is try to see what's out there. It might be, i have no idea i didn't go through the exercise. 

Trades from the past like Hall vs Larsson. That was an obvious trade in the sense that we needed scoring, the oilers desperately needed some D and had many forwards and some who needed a change of scenery. And that's technically harder cause there's so many players. How many goalies that can be a starter could be available without sending another goalie the other way. That's a very very fair question.

And for the 10th time. You do understand that saying you want to play meaningful games in march and that AFTER that a TON of sh!t goes to sh!t, you change your expectations, whats so damn hard to understand there? we were NOT going to be miracle on ice this year. We HAVE 2 NHL goalies already. There's really no point for a team not projected to make the playoffs to trade away assets to patch a hole temporary just to maybe challenge for a spot. That's not being responsible, that's been desperate. If we were Colorado or a team really going for it and having to make an impact, that's a completely different conversation, then you REALLY have to do something and can't let that slip away somehow, but you have to pay the price for that.

We're just not at that point yet. We still have 2 goalies out, another top contributor out, we still have 20+ million in cap space, etc etc

 

 

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4 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Oh stop.  No one believes that.  We just see other GM's doing something to salvage their season or make their teams better while our current and previous GM had no problems punting the season away by Christmas and make promises of better days ahead that never comes.

You have effectively nailed Lou to cross for years for not doing all these what-if scenarios with Parise in his final season here.  Again, I think you real reason for defending Shero/Fitz is that it flies in the face of your "anybody but Lou is a better GM!" schtick you still put on.  )FWIW, I now fully expect you to post the 2014-15 lineup and say something like "well this is what he left us with!").

You guys whine anytime i bring up Lou. Yet you bring it up constantly when you think you can make a point.

I've been nailing Lou AND any other GM taking the same approach he did, which is very not many. They are not "what-if", Lou systematically did things a certain way and that's precisely why we lost Niderdermayer, Gomez, Parise, Rafalski, Clarkson, etc etc etc ALL for nothing. And he totally let Elias just walk too. IF you think that's a smart approach to take, you're nuts. I called out the GM in Colombus doing the same thing and losing both Bob and Panarin for nothing and trading assets that year that they could really use right now. This year i say the Ducks GM should do the same thing. It's not about the person, it's about how they do things, not like im singling out Lou for no reason. It's all based on facts and how he ran things.

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Why would i have an issue with it. It's not about me at all. The whole thing is about YOU expecting something that may or may not even be possible, so the least you could do is try to see what's out there. It might be, i have no idea i didn't go through the exercise. 

Trades from the past like Hall vs Larsson. That was an obvious trade in the sense that we needed scoring, the oilers desperately needed some D and had many forwards and some who needed a change of scenery. And that's technically harder cause there's so many players. How many goalies that can be a starter could be available without sending another goalie the other way. That's a very very fair question.

And for the 10th time. You do understand that saying you want to play meaningful games in march and that AFTER that a TON of sh!t goes to sh!t, you change your expectations, whats so damn hard to understand there? we were NOT going to be miracle on ice this year. We HAVE 2 NHL goalies already. There's really no point for a team not projected to make the playoffs to trade away assets to patch a hole temporary just to maybe challenge for a spot. That's not being responsible, that's been desperate. If we were Colorado or a team really going for it and having to make an impact, that's a completely different conversation, then you REALLY have to do something and can't let that slip away somehow, but you have to pay the price for that.

We're just not at that point yet. We still have 2 goalies out, another top contributor out, we still have 20+ million in cap space, etc etc

 

 

FFS You are acting like the Devils are the only team in the league that faces injuries and other adversities throughout the season.  A lot of teams have things go sideways but they try to right the ship.  Vancouver fired their coach and it helped them.  Philly fired their coach and it didn't change anything.  The point is they tried to do something and they took a risk.  Instead, yet again, our GM decides to punt the season.  If this was a one or even two time thing, then I would probably think of it as outlier.  However, this is a repeated pattern with this team now from Shero and now from Fitz.  Either they don't know that they are allowed to make moves to salvage their season during the season or they are getting orders from above to stay pat (and that second possible scenario is the one I am truly concerned about).

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Just now, SterioDesign said:

You guys whine anytime i bring up Lou. Yet you bring it up constantly when you think you can make a point.

I've been nailing Lou AND any other GM taking the same approach he did, which is very not many. They are not "what-if", Lou systematically did things a certain way and that's precisely why we lost Niderdermayer, Gomez, Parise, Rafalski, Clarkson, etc etc etc ALL for nothing. And he totally let Elias just walk too. IF you think that's a smart approach to take, you're nuts. I called out the GM in Colombus doing the same thing and losing both Bob and Panarin for nothing and trading assets that year that they could really use right now. This year i say the Ducks GM should do the same thing. It's not about the person, it's about how they do things, not like im singling out Lou for no reason. It's all based on facts and how he ran things.

Parise didn't win anything after he left us and is now currently a third liner who is counting down the games till retirement.  Gomez started declining shortly after he left us.  Elias is a moot point because he did come back.  LOL @ even being annoyed that Clarkson left.

You also totally forgot about the fact that when those guys were on expiring contracts that the Devils were a playoff team.  We weren't sellers, we were buyers trying to compete for the cup.  Yet somehow, years later, you can't understand that simple concept.  Yet you keep destroying Lou even after 3 cups while defending Shero/Fitz to the death even though we have won a grand total of 1 playoff game in the 7 seasons they have been in charge.

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3 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

FFS You are acting like the Devils are the only team in the league that faces injuries and other adversities throughout the season.  A lot of teams have things go sideways but they try to right the ship.  Vancouver fired their coach and it helped them.  Philly fired their coach and it didn't change anything.  The point is they tried to do something and they took a risk.  Instead, yet again, our GM decides to punt the season.  If this was a one or even two time thing, then I would probably think of it as outlier.  However, this is a repeated pattern with this team now from Shero and now from Fitz.  Either they don't know that they are allowed to make moves to salvage their season during the season or they are getting orders from above to stay pat (and that second possible scenario is the one I am truly concerned about).

Yeah cause those teams were actually supposed to challenge for the playoffs and make it this year. It's a really different scenario.

Like the insanely basic premise of teams at this moment trying to establish if they are sellers or buyers. That all goes into trying to gauge what are their chances to make the playoffs and actually win. Some teams will be a bit more conservative knowing their chances are slow and that they should still bet on the future and some teams that has to win now are pressure into making something happen. If they don't win tho it will bite them in the ass often.

Now almost everyone understand that. Except fans like you who just want what they want "please do something so that i feel better about my fandom! boohoooo". When there's no realistic move that could actually do that potentially.

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8 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

FFS You are acting like the Devils are the only team in the league that faces injuries and other adversities throughout the season.  A lot of teams have things go sideways but they try to right the ship.  Vancouver fired their coach and it helped them.  Philly fired their coach and it didn't change anything.  The point is they tried to do something and they took a risk.  Instead, yet again, our GM decides to punt the season.  If this was a one or even two time thing, then I would probably think of it as outlier.  However, this is a repeated pattern with this team now from Shero and now from Fitz.  Either they don't know that they are allowed to make moves to salvage their season during the season or they are getting orders from above to stay pat (and that second possible scenario is the one I am truly concerned about).

Realistically, what is there to salvage? This team wasn't making the playoffs, regardless. I just wonder if sending assets to save anything right now is the best thing to do. Of course, if there's a good hockey trade to make, you make it. Boeser is linked to us and could greatly improve our top-6.

I just wonder what realistic moves could be done to truly salvage the season. Vancouver fired their coach, they're still 6 points out from the 2nd Wild Card spot. When we were close to a playoff spot in '17-'18, Shero did make moves to help this team, it didn't give positive results in the end. I think Fitz sees this team as very young and in progress and just doesn't want to do a move to do a move, but I'm convinced he's listening and looking around.

You don't do the moves he did this summer if you don't want to improve this team quickly and if you want to stay pat imo. I have confidence Fitz has a vision.

Edited by Devs3cups
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6 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Parise didn't win anything after he left us and is now currently a third liner who is counting down the games till retirement.  Gomez started declining shortly after he left us.  Elias is a moot point because he did come back.  LOL @ even being annoyed that Clarkson left.

You also totally forgot about the fact that when those guys were on expiring contracts that the Devils were a playoff team.  We weren't sellers, we were buyers trying to compete for the cup.  Yet somehow, years later, you can't understand that simple concept.  Yet you keep destroying Lou even after 3 cups while defending Shero/Fitz to the death even though we have won a grand total of 1 playoff game in the 7 seasons they have been in charge.

Who cares what they did after its not about that. Its about losing those guys for nothing. You're in the cup finals in 2012 with 3 30 goals scorers and you literally let 2 of them walk for nothing, which triggers the 3rd one to leave for Russia. Where do you think you end up? Exactly where we did. With absolutely NOTHING to build around.

So typical of you guys. Put your head in the sand about Lou literally losing ALL our major assets and running the team in the ground. But blaming the following GM for not rebuilding fast enough, pathetic.

1 minute ago, Devs3cups said:

Realistically, what is there to salvage? This team wasn't making the playoffs, regardless. I just wonder if sending assets to save anything right now is the best thing to do. Of course, if there's a good hockey trade to make, you make it. Boeser is linked to us and could greatly improve our top-6.

I just wonder what realistic moves could be done to truly salvage the season. Vancouver fired their coach, they're still 6 points out from the 2nd Wild Card spot. When we were close to a playoff spot in '17-'18, Shero did make moves to help this team, it didn't give positive results in the end. I think Fitz sees this team as very young and in progress and just doesn't want to do a move to do a move, but I'm convinced he's listening and looking around.

You don't do the moves he did this summer if you don't want to improve this team quickly and if you want to stay pat imo. I have confidence Fitz has a vision.

Thank you. Some common sense finally

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1 minute ago, DevsMan84 said:

FFS You are acting like the Devils are the only team in the league that faces injuries and other adversities throughout the season.  A lot of teams have things go sideways but they try to right the ship.  Vancouver fired their coach and it helped them.  Philly fired their coach and it didn't change anything.  The point is they tried to do something and they took a risk.  Instead, yet again, our GM decides to punt the season.  If this was a one or even two time thing, then I would probably think of it as outlier.  However, this is a repeated pattern with this team now from Shero and now from Fitz.  Either they don't know that they are allowed to make moves to salvage their season during the season or they are getting orders from above to stay pat (and that second possible scenario is the one I am truly concerned about).

Exactly. 2 straight GM’s with a mysterious “plan” which seems to involve waiting around and then draft someone who can hopefully fix it. 

Sometimes when situations change you adjust your expectations and sometimes you need to adjust the situation itself. For example: It’s an absolute cop out move to not improve goaltending because “well we have 2 NHL goaltenders”. Where?!? One has been inconsistent at best and the other is done for the season and possibly his career. No other team improves their team when there’s an injury? They just say oh well and enjoy another top 10 pick

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3 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Who cares what they did after its not about that. Its about losing those guys for nothing. You're in the cup finals in 2012 with 3 30 goals scorers and you literally let 2 of them walk for nothing, which triggers the 3rd one to leave for Russia. Where do you think you end up? Exactly where we did. With absolutely NOTHING to build around

triggered the 3rd to leave for Russia? Now whos inventing narratives?

And I’m sorry, but Lou has been gone 7 years. He’s not the boogeyman here anymore. This is on Shero and Fitz and the do-nothing wait and see approach. 

Edited by Devil Dan 56
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1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Exactly. 2 straight GM’s with a mysterious “plan” which seems to involve waiting around and then draft someone who can hopefully fix it. 

Sometimes when situations change you adjust your expectations and sometimes you need to adjust the situation itself. For example: It’s an absolute cop out move to not improve goaltending because “well we have 2 NHL goaltenders”. Where?!? One has been inconsistent at best and the other is done for the season and possibly his career. No other team improves their team when there’s an injury? They just say oh well and enjoy another top 10 pick

There's nothing mysterious about the plan. We're still rebuilding adding pieces. One of our top pick is not even in the NHL yet

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1 minute ago, Devs3cups said:

Realistically, what is there to salvage? This team wasn't making the playoffs, regardless. I just wonder if sending assets to save anything right now is the best thing to do. Of course, if there's a good hockey trade to make, you make it. Boeser is linked to us and could greatly improve our top-6.

I just wonder what realistic moves could be done to truly salvage the season. Vancouver fired their coach, they're still 6 points out from the 2nd Wild Card spot. When we were close to a playoff spot, Shero did make moves to help this team, it didn't give positive results in the end. I think Fitz sees this team as very young and in progress and just doesn't want to do a move to do a move, but I'm convinced he's listening and looking around.

You don't do the moves he did this summer if you don't want to improve this team quickly and if you want to stay pat imo. I have confidence Fitz has a vision.

For those teams there is something to salvage.  For the Devils, it's to improve the team.  GM's are tasked with constantly trying to improve their team through various different moves.  The same moves that Shero/Fitz have done over the past several years is being sellers at deadline which has yielded mixed results or too early to call, or these low-risk/high-reward moves that have rarely panned out for us.  Sorry, but I don't think that's quite enough especially when Fitz is declaring he wants to play meaningful games in March.

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1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

triggered the 3rd to leave for Russia? Now whos inventing narratives? 

Its a projection sure but you don't think it had anything to do with it? Kovalchuk picked NJ to win and then lost 2 of their 30 goals scorer and captain and the team was already old. It had to play in his decision to not return.

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4 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Who cares what they did after its not about that. Its about losing those guys for nothing. You're in the cup finals in 2012 with 3 30 goals scorers and you literally let 2 of them walk for nothing, which triggers the 3rd one to leave for Russia. Where do you think you end up? Exactly where we did. With absolutely NOTHING to build around.

So typical of you guys. Put your head in the sand about Lou literally losing ALL our major assets and running the team in the ground. But blaming the following GM for not rebuilding fast enough, pathetic.

Thank you. Some common sense finally

LMAO.  Are you, yet again, killing Lou for being a buyer in a season where we went to the CUP FINALS??!!?  We were having a pretty good season back in 2011-12 and you just wanted Lou to punt the season because they might leave for nothing?!

You are literally attacking Lou for holding onto players who helped take us to the cup finals but defending Shero/Fitz to the death for 1 playoff win in 7 seasons.  You are just in a "anyone but Lou is a better GM!" sh!tck-coma.

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2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Its a projection sure but you don't think it had anything to do with it? Kovalchuk picked NJ to win and then lost 2 of their 30 goals scorer and captain and the team was already old. It had to play in his decision to not return.

Or he was forced to play in Russia during the lockout and they threw 30 million dollars at him to come back but yeah I’m sure it was because we lost Parise after being 2 wins away from a cup. 

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2 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Or he was forced to play in Russia during the lockout and they threw 30 million dollars at him to come back but yeah I’m sure it was because we lost Parise after being 2 wins away from a cup. 

No, it was losing our other 30-goal scorer in Clarkson that was the straw that broke the camel's back lol.

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