GDT: Devils @ Calgary 10:00 PM MSG+

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

32 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

A part of me still wonders if Fitz is indeed being handcuffed by ownership.  That would at least explain the current state of the coaches.  I can see the owners not wanting to pay a "relieved of duties" Ruff and the replacement coach as well as having assistant coaches who are willing to work for on the cheap (relatively).  These owners are all about ROI and I am talking about profit and not wins/losses.  I can absolutely see them spend up nearly to the cap ceiling only to cheap out with pretty much every else around the team (coaching, conditioning team, scouting, etc).

We've said it a bunch, but I really hope the plan is to can this staff (ALL of them), and then bring up Dineen and give him considerable say in picking the assistants...with Utica having a fine season and a coaching change not likely to help in-season (given the goalie issues), I'll live with The Three Stooges serving out the remainder of this season with the big club, but they better be gone within a week of the Devils' season ending. 

If nASS sticks around, then I need an explanation as to why...of course, since the Devils don't allow anyone to ask them tough questions, I don't expect them to allow the press to ask what we're all thinking:

"Nasreddine has been with the organization for several years, and even with some clear upgrades on defense, play in the Devils' end continues to be a serious problem, with player often left uncovered for wide-open chances.  Why should we believe that Nasreddine is the right person to solve this issue, as it has continually been one during his time here?"  

[Jimmy Leeds]

10 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Don’t know if you saw his spot with Erika earlier, but he seems to know that he’s simply not very good…he doesn’t come right out and say that of course, but he pretty much acknowledged that he hasn’t really gotten it done to this point in his career.

I felt bad for the guy because he thinks he found a home and told her that he knows he can "bring it up 2 or 3 notches........"    

Oh boy..........

[DevsMan84]

Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

We've said it a bunch, but I really hope the plan is to can this staff (ALL of them), and then bring up Dineen and give him considerable say in picking the assistants...with Utica having a fine season and a coaching change not likely to help in-season (given the goalie issues), I'll live with The Three Stooges serving out the remainder of this season with the big club, but they better be gone within a week of the Devils' season ending. 

If nASS sticks around, then I need an explanation as to why...of course, since the Devils don't allow anyone to ask them tough questions, I don't expect them to allow the press to ask what we're all thinking:

"Nasreddine has been with the organization for several years, and even with some clear upgrades on defense, play in the Devils' end continues to be a serious problem, with player often left uncovered for wide-open chances.  Why should we believe that Nasreddine is the right person to solve this issue, as it has continually been one during his time here?"  

I think that is likely the plan and why Ruff and his assistants have not been canned yet.  Dineen is already on the payroll and he didn't want to disrupt the good season Utica is having up there by promoting him.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Just now, DevsMan84 said:

That is why I mentioned in my last sentence where I said I can see them spending near to the cap ceiling on the players but then cheap out on everything else surrounding the team.

You gotta keep guys like Hamilton, Hughes and Hischier as those names brings fans into the seats.  Coaches rarely do if ever.  That's why they cheaped out and got Ruff instead of Laviolette and why we are stuck with Teflon Don Nass.

Having names helps, but that's only going to go so far...eventually, the Devils are going to have to be legit competitive for fans to want to keep coming (we're not like the Rangers, who sell tickets no matter what).  That will mean getting the right coaches.

I wasn't against the Ruff hire mostly because I was ready for someone with experience (instead of another Hynes-type), but he and his staff are the wrong guys...I'm fully convinced of it...and nASS being retained was a huge error...that I DID hate at the time.  And the organization can't allow this mistake to continue.  

[DevsMan84]

2 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Having names helps, but that's only going to go so far...eventually, the Devils are going to have to be legit competitive for fans to want to keep coming (we're not like the Rangers, who sell tickets no matter what).  That will mean getting the right coaches.

I wasn't against the Ruff hire mostly because I was ready for someone with experience (instead of another Hynes-type), but he and his staff are the wrong guys...I'm fully convinced of it...and nASS being retained was a huge error...that I DID hate at the time.  And the organization can't allow this mistake to continue.  

Ruff was already seen as over-the-hill when we hired him.  The hockey world outside of the Devils were scratching their heads when we hired him.  The one defense I kept hearing in his hiring were his accomplishments as a coach that happened 10-20 years ago.

I fully expect next year's coaching staff to be Dineen as HC with Brylin and Nass as being the assistants.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Leeds said:

I felt bad for the guy because he thinks he found a home and told her that he knows he can "bring it up 2 or 3 notches........"    

Oh boy..........

He's a warm body who was brought here because Fitz didn't have to give up anything of consequence to get him.  And just like Cinco Domingo back in the day, he's performed exactly as we should've expected...like I said, losing both your goalies is just a wide-toed boot to the balls.

Re:  the "2 or 3 notches" blurb, to that I say "Well what are you waiting for pal?!  You came into a situation that wasn't going to be any better, as far as getting an extended chance to play goes...and you sucked so badly that a guy the Devils really didn't want to bring up too early not only took your playing time, but outplayed you BADLY (due partly to you setting the bar so low), and the idea of giving you another start was so scary that the Devils would rather risk the new kid getting worn down than you starting another game!  You also just turned 28 years old...how many more chances do you think you're going to get to bring it up '2 or 3 notches'?!"  

[DevsMan84]

Reading this thread, I am surprised how many posters don't know about Lean on Me.  There are times when it seems like that is the only thing HBO or TBS are showing for a few weeks.  It's often packaged into a 2-set along with Stand And Deliver (another great 80's teacher movie).

Plus Lean on Me features a very early Michael Imperioli cameo as a kid getting expelled on the first day of Joe Clark's reign as principal.

 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Ruff was already seen as over-the-hill when we hired him.  The hockey world outside of the Devils were scratching their heads when we hired him.  The one defense I kept hearing in his hiring were his accomplishments as a coach that happened 10-20 years ago.

I fully expect next year's coaching staff to be Dineen as HC with Brylin and Nass as being the assistants.

Yeah pretty much any concerns people had about Ruff (the game likely having passed him by, not being much of a help defensively) turned out to be justified.  Can't see him ever getting another head coaching gig, unless it's with an AHL club.

Any scenario where nASS is still in the picture is a fail AFAIC.  And would kill any of the good feelings associated with a new coach hire (unless that coach has SO much clout and respect that if HE decides nASS should stay, then I have to give that coach the benefit of the doubt.  But if Dineen's the guy and nASS is forced on him, that's exactly what it's going to feel like...someone unfairly forced on a coach who won't have much power.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

13 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Reading this thread, I am surprised how many posters don't know about Lean on Me.  There are times when it seems like that is the only thing HBO or TBS are showing for a few weeks.  It's often packaged into a 2-set along with Stand And Deliver (another great 80's teacher movie).

Plus Lean on Me features a very early Michael Imperioli cameo as a kid getting expelled on the first day of Joe Clark's reign as principal.

 

I was going to mention Michael Imperioli being in that movie...it wasn't a cameo so much as it was very early in his career...he was basically just another (mulleted) extra at that point.

[devlman]

5 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It really does suck when your 1A AND your 1B go down with injuries, and are both under contract the following season.  The idea is that they come back healthy (the solution being from within) and that you don’t give up any valuable assets on a temporary replacement who may not be all that good himself.  I’ve harped on the goalie situation at times too, but the fact is coughing up an asset on a decent goalie wasn’t getting the Devils into the playoffs this year…they just give up way too many prime scoring chances.  They’re currently 12 games under NHL-.500…a pretty good goalie would make them what, maybe 6 games or so under NHL-.500?

The real question at this point is, does Fitz stake next season on some combo of Blackwood/Bernier/Daws?  That’s three question marks.  Even with the two rough starts, Daws still has a .910 save% over his last 10 starts…maybe these bad games were a case of him finally wearing down, and needing some rest.  I still want to see him get as many games as he’s physically able to play, unless Blackwood comes back…then I’d like to see them both play.

It feels like everyone’s jumping on Daws now and in his case, I do feel like it’s unfair…the Devils (mostly out of necessity, couple with his having been hot for a bit) rolled with him for as long as they could, but now it’s clear that they’re going to have to manage his workload to try to avoid him wearing down.  Yeah, that will mean Gillies will start more than we’d ever want him to, but Daws does have a chance here…might as well give him the best possible chance to begin to try to prove himself AND be effective.

 

It’s to be competitive, not necessarily make the playoffs. It’s playing in tight games, learning how to close a game, enabling winning habits and enjoyment to grow in your young core.

And for the record, absolutely not jumping on Daws. He’s done what he can and what we’ve asked of him has been unfair. But relying on him to help us play competitive hockey night in night out is not going to work.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

14 minutes ago, devlman said:

It’s to be competitive, not necessarily make the playoffs. It’s playing in tight games, learning how to close a game, enabling winning habits and enjoyment to grow in your young core.

And for the record, absolutely not jumping on Daws. He’s done what he can and what we’ve asked of him has been unfair. But relying on him to help us play competitive hockey night in night out is not going to work.

No I get that, but how much were you willing to give up to try to prop up this season?  And there’s still the question of what there was to choose from.  Not many goalies have changed hands this season.

[SterioDesign]

43 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

No I get that, but how much were you willing to give up to try to prop up this season?  And there’s still the question of what there was to choose from.  Not many goalies have changed hands this season.

It made no sense to throw assets to prop up this season alone. That whole argument of "the kid need to learn to win" is nothing but an excuse for fans to just GET something, get something now "for them", not for the team.

The entire dynamic of a team can change with a coaching change. Look at MTL recently. They are not winning now because they "learned how to win" during another season, the system they play now work. Did they unlearn "how to win" for 75% of the season?

And like you said, there was not much available for us in net around the league, hell even playoffs teams are struggling to get goalies now.

Edited March 17, 2022 by SterioDesign

[devlman]

52 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

No I get that, but how much were you willing to give up to try to prop up this season?  And there’s still the question of what there was to choose from.  Not many goalies have changed hands this season.

If be willing to give up very little - which would be the cost to get any warm body not named Gillies. Even a rotting corpse would do the trick. Anyone not named Gillies gives this team a fighting chance at being competitive in more games.

[devlman]

13 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

It made no sense to throw assets to prop up this season alone. That whole argument of "the kid need to learn to win" is nothing but an excuse for fans to just GET something, get something now "for them", not for the team.

The entire dynamic of a team can change with a coaching change. Look at MTL recently. They are not winning now because they "learned how to win" during another season, the system they play now work. Did they unlearn "how to win" for 75% of the season?

And like you said, there was not much available for us in net around the league, hell even playoffs teams are struggling to get goalies now.

Learning to win is a thing, believe it or not. 

[SterioDesign]

56 minutes ago, devlman said:

Learning to win is a thing, believe it or not. 

Sure, but the notion that making a knee jerk / panic move just so that a team may win an extra 4-5 games in a season and the assumption that these extra few games would have a lasting impact is just silly.

Every season there's a whole offseason, new players, new system, training camp, new pairing, etc etc etc 

The ONE thing the kids needed to work was to play together, play the system and play well together. Which they 100% are. They are playing hard until the very last second every game. We see chemistry between some players, we GET that no matter who's in net. If the puck goes in more often than not in the net is a very different thing. If anything it can make them learn even more NOT to make certain mistakes. If your goalie is saving your ass constantly, what are you learning?

You guys want more wins, just say it straight up, it's completely normal. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

14 minutes ago, devlman said:

If be willing to give up very little - which would be the cost to get any warm body not named Gillies. Even a rotting corpse would do the trick. Anyone not named Gillies gives this team a fighting chance at being competitive in more games.

It's easy to say that as fans (we all do it at times, me included), but we really have no idea who was really available, and for what...if anything, any team who knew the position the Devils were in was likely to try to squeeze just a little more out of them.  Want to tell me there was someone truly above-average out there for a reasonable cost, yeah, I'd want the Devils to at least inquire about it.  But I can't get too bent about different    

Now that they're scoring, they're competitive in general much more often now (more on that later)...they're 7-8 in their last 15 with a goal differential of +4.  

The problem is that as much as Gillies is most definitely NOT the long-term solution, it's not like anyone who was in goal prior was faring much better.  Daws is "anyone not named Gillies", and though he did some good things recently, he's 6-6-1 with a 2.99 GAA and .902 save% overall...BTW, the GAA and save% are the best among Devils netminders this season.  I hate watching Gillies too, but it's not like he's made tons of starts this year...he's made all of 12.  He started getting regular duty (out of necessity) when the Devils were already 14-17-5...that contributed to a 1-9-0 run that effectively killed any chance the Devils had in 2021-22, but at the same time, the Devils at the time weren't scoring much at all (just 22 goals, 7 of which came in one game, so that 15 goals spread out among the other 9 games).  Given the Devils' ongoing defensive woes, what's decent goalie going to do there?  Maybe help the Devils win three more games?  So say they go 4-6 instead of 1-9...then they'd be 18-23-5 instead of 15-26-5.  This is more a way of me pointing out that though goaltending was most definitely an issue, there were a lot of more them...too much to think that what figured to be a slightly below-average goalie at best (instead of a well-below average one like Gillies) was going to make that much of a difference. 

The good news is that the one of the problems (general lack of offense) is becoming much less of one...Devils have scored 57 goals in their last 15 games, and have scored 3+ in 11 of them...you can start to win some with that kind of production, and though they're not tearing it up by any means, they're at least avoiding extended losing streaks now.  Now it's a question of the team not giving up SO many prime opportunities up to their opponents...even a good goalie is going to have his hands full with that.  That starts with a coach and a defensive assistant with a plan...even with this year's often shaky goaltending, give me Lemaire and Robinson, and I'll bet that this team will at least look like it has an idea of what it's trying to do most nights...with Ruff & Co, it seems like whenever the other team starts to figure the Devils out, the Devils start running around and looking like they're a step or two behind and have no idea who's supposed to cover who or where they're supposed to be.  I'm not implying goaltending hasn't been an issue for much of the season, just that this team has to get themselves in a much better position to stop leaving ANYONE who dares to take the net for them so damned high and dry so damned often.    

[SterioDesign]

What makes us better NOW and for the future?

Drafting Jack in 2019. Or finishing the season with a few extra wins where the kids LeArN hOw To WiN and drafting Dylan Cozen instead?

It's suuuuuuuch a non-factor in the big picture. Having the right mix of players and system is truly the key.

Edited March 17, 2022 by SterioDesign

[SterioDesign]

11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's easy to say that as fans (we all do it at times, me included), but we really have no idea who was really available, and for what...if anything, any team who knew the position the Devils were in was likely to try to squeeze just a little more out of them.  Want to tell me there was someone truly above-average out there for a reasonable cost, yeah, I'd want the Devils to at least inquire about it.  But I can't get too bent about different    

Now that they're scoring, they're competitive in general much more often now (more on that later)...they're 7-8 in their last 15 with a goal differential of +4.  

The problem is that as much as Gillies is most definitely NOT the long-term solution, it's not like anyone who was in goal prior was faring much better.  Daws is "anyone not named Gillies", and though he did some good things recently, he's 6-6-1 with a 2.99 GAA and .902 save% overall...BTW, the GAA and save% are the best among Devils netminders this season.  I hate watching Gillies too, but it's not like he's made tons of starts this year...he's made all of 12.  He started getting regular duty (out of necessity) when the Devils were already 14-17-5...that contributed to a 1-9-0 run that effectively killed any chance the Devils had in 2021-22, but at the same time, the Devils at the time weren't scoring much at all (just 22 goals, 7 of which came in one game, so that 15 goals spread out among the other 9 games).  Given the Devils' ongoing defensive woes, what's decent goalie going to do there?  Maybe help the Devils win three more games?  So say they go 4-6 instead of 1-9...then they'd be 18-23-5 instead of 15-26-5.  This is more a way of me pointing out that though goaltending was most definitely an issue, there were a lot of more them...too much to think that what figured to be a slightly below-average goalie at best (instead of a well-below average one like Gillies) was going to make that much of a difference. 

The good news is that the one of the problems (general lack of offense) is becoming much less of one...Devils have scored 57 goals in their last 15 games, and have scored 3+ in 11 of them...you can start to win some with that kind of production, and though they're not tearing it up by any means, they're at least avoiding extended losing streaks now.  Now it's a question of the team not giving up SO many prime opportunities up to their opponents...even a good goalie is going to have his hands full with that.  That starts with a coach and a defensive assistant with a plan...even with this year's often shaky goaltending, give me Lemaire and Robinson, and I'll bet that this team will at least look like it has an idea of what it's trying to do most nights...with Ruff & Co, it seems like whenever the other team starts to figure the Devils out, the Devils start running around and looking like they're a step or two behind and have no idea who's supposed to cover who or where they're supposed to be.  I'm not implying goaltending hasn't been an issue for much of the season, just that this team has to get themselves in a much better position to stop leaving ANYONE who dares to take the net for them so damned high and dry so damned often.    

That fact that we're specifically the worst 2nd period team in the NHL is a red flag about the coaching. If you KNOW that's a problem and that it keeps getting worst. Then the answer is NOT in the room

[devlman]

16 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Sure, but the notion that making a knee jerk / panic move just so that a team may win an extra 4-5 games in a season and the assumption that these extra few games would have a lasting impact is just silly.

Every season there's a whole offseason, new players, new system, training camp, new pairing, etc etc etc 

The ONE thing the kids needed to work was to play together, play the system and play well together. Which they 100% are. They are playing hard until the very last second every game. We see chemistry between some players, we GET that no matter who's in net. If the puck goes in more often than not in the net is a very different thing. If anything it can make them learn even more NOT to make certain mistakes. If your goalie is saving your ass constantly, what are you learning?

You guys want more wins, just say it straight up, it's completely normal. 

For the second time, it’s not just about wins. It’s about playing in competitive, meaningful games. Building a competitive culture.

[devlman]

17 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

It's easy to say that as fans (we all do it at times, me included), but we really have no idea who was really available, and for what...if anything, any team who knew the position the Devils were in was likely to try to squeeze just a little more out of them.  Want to tell me there was someone truly above-average out there for a reasonable cost, yeah, I'd want the Devils to at least inquire about it.  But I can't get too bent about different    

Now that they're scoring, they're competitive in general much more often now (more on that later)...they're 7-8 in their last 15 with a goal differential of +4.  

The problem is that as much as Gillies is most definitely NOT the long-term solution, it's not like anyone who was in goal prior was faring much better.  Daws is "anyone not named Gillies", and though he did some good things recently, he's 6-6-1 with a 2.99 GAA and .902 save% overall...BTW, the GAA and save% are the best among Devils netminders this season.  I hate watching Gillies too, but it's not like he's made tons of starts this year...he's made all of 12.  He started getting regular duty (out of necessity) when the Devils were already 14-17-5...that contributed to a 1-9-0 run that effectively killed any chance the Devils had in 2021-22, but at the same time, the Devils at the time weren't scoring much at all (just 22 goals, 7 of which came in one game, so that 15 goals spread out among the other 9 games).  Given the Devils' ongoing defensive woes, what's decent goalie going to do there?  Maybe help the Devils win three more games?  So say they go 4-6 instead of 1-9...then they'd be 18-23-5 instead of 15-26-5.  This is more a way of me pointing out that though goaltending was most definitely an issue, there were a lot of more them...too much to think that what figured to be a slightly below-average goalie at best (instead of a well-below average one like Gillies) was going to make that much of a difference. 

The good news is that the one of the problems (general lack of offense) is becoming much less of one...Devils have scored 57 goals in their last 15 games, and have scored 3+ in 11 of them...you can start to win some with that kind of production, and though they're not tearing it up by any means, they're at least avoiding extended losing streaks now.  Now it's a question of the team not giving up SO many prime opportunities up to their opponents...even a good goalie is going to have his hands full with that.  That starts with a coach and a defensive assistant with a plan...even with this year's often shaky goaltending, give me Lemaire and Robinson, and I'll bet that this team will at least look like it has an idea of what it's trying to do most nights...with Ruff & Co, it seems like whenever the other team starts to figure the Devils out, the Devils start running around and looking like they're a step or two behind and have no idea who's supposed to cover who or where they're supposed to be.  I'm not implying goaltending hasn't been an issue for much of the season, just that this team has to get themselves in a much better position to stop leaving ANYONE who dares to take the net for them so damned high and dry so damned often.    

The defensive side of things certainly needs improvement. But 5v5 we’ve been a decent NHL team. It’s clear that our primary issues are mainly in goal and special teams. 

With our ability to score goals, I maintain that even a slightly below average goalie would allow us to play tighter games. Doesn’t really move the needle with wins but makes a huge difference with having us play closer games, which is important when it comes to helping this team believe and learn to play tight contests.

[SterioDesign]

4 minutes ago, devlman said:

For the second time, it’s not just about wins. It’s about playing in competitive, meaningful games. Building a competitive culture.

For the second time. Look at MTL last year, they somehow won all their playoffs rounds and made it to the final with a sh!t team. How great for a competitive culture.

Oh right, that whole winning culture was thrown out of the window for almost the entire season until they fired their coach. It's almost like every season is its own thing or something

[devlman]

2 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

For the second time. Look at MTL last year, they somehow won all their playoffs rounds and made it to the final with a sh!t team. How great for a competitive culture.

Oh right, that whole winning culture was thrown out of the window for almost the entire season until they fired their coach. It's almost like every season is its own thing or something

Oh yeah, Montreal winning after a coaching change means players don’t learn and mature as a team. Youre the king of irrelevant points.

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, devlman said:

Youre the king of irrelevant points.

That sounds like the name of a Monty Python character. 

[SterioDesign]

3 minutes ago, devlman said:

Oh yeah, Montreal winning after a coaching change means players don’t learn and mature as a team. Youre the king of irrelevant points.

Well if you can't understand the argument i made there it explains why you'd believe winning a few extra games in a lost season would build a winning culture that will carry on forever

[devlman]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Well if you can't understand the argument i made there it explains why you'd believe winning a few extra games in a lost season would build a winning culture that will carry on forever

You’re right. If I can’t understand what the hell you’re even arguing then it must mean that my whole point was that I want to win a few extra games, despite me directly saying otherwise. It’s the only logical conclusion.