GDT: Rags @ Devils 7:00 PM MSG+2 , MSG

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

Just gonna leave this right here...

I KNEW this was coming.  Friggin' KNEW it.  lmao

[mfitz804]

Just now, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I KNEW this was coming.  Friggin' KNEW it.  lmao

Sometimes you guys do my job for me...

[DevsMan84]

28 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Yeah I mean I brought it up before but a LOT of fans are wearing these...far FAR more than I ever would've or could've expected.  

Overall I still find them a mixed bag.  They're pretty clean-looking and have a crisp throwback/classic vibe to them...largely looks like something that would've been worn in the 50s.  I'd go so far to say that I actually kind of like them from behind.  But every time that I see the black-and-white Devils logo on the scoreboard during games when these jerseys are worn, all I can think is how much better they'd look if the "Jersey" crest was swapped out for that.

Right now nothing is going to change between now and the rest of the season (and Hughes being done is only going to make things worse), so I for one am going to stop harping on the same things (not saying you're doing anything wrong, just that I've been as broken record as anyone else about the issues and the franchise won't be addressing them until later).

But to address each point:

1) Yeah, not a good look.  It's one thing for players and even coaches to be worn down by a difficult season.  That's not supposed to happen with a GM; I can't give him a pass for not having done enough due diligence re:  Hammond.  This team has shown signs of being competitive with top teams and games like the Boston massacre have not been commonplace lately, but there's still PLENTY of work to be done, and we know what needs to be addressed.

2) Devils can score (especially when Hughes is playing)...that we know...I don't need analytics to tell me that.  But we also know that even with good goaltending, the "system" (or whatever passes for one) gives up prime chances and leaves players uncovered CONSTANTLY.  What does the analytics department have to say about THAT?  Expected goals against?

3) I don't think there's an internal cap.  Butcher was traded because he's bad, no longer fit in here, and no one wanted him at his cap hit...the team just wanted him gone.  Yeah would've been nice to have gotten something back, and Buffalo did a decent job saying "OK, we'll take him off your hands, but we'll need more than just the player to do it."  Yeah wasn't great to lose Wedge for nothing, but not like having him over Gillies and Hammond would made THAT much of a difference, especially given the open looks opposing players get.  Studenic has 2 points in 8 GP in Dallas...I'll be surprised if we're really lamenting having lost him in the years to come...he's a former 2017 5th-round pick who's played all of 33 games in the NHL to date and will be 24 next season.  Not saying Fitz has been flawless in transactions like this, just that I don't think the guys he lost are going to find sustained success elsewhere.  Guys like that just kinda bounce around.

4) This can't happen.  End of story.  They're not the answer.  Wasn't Ruff only on a two-year deal?  If so, that would mean extending him.  And if that happens, then I am 100% done with Fitz.  And I'll be wondering what the hell ownership is thinking.

To sum up:  this offseason is absolutely THE crossroads moment for the Devils.  Depending on what direction they go, we'll know once and for all how this franchise wants to do business.       

I would absolutely take Butcher over Smith and White at this point.  There really wasn't a need to get rid of him, let alone PAY someone to take him.  It really doesn't make sense.

Edit: And it is weird that it happened literally the same afternoon that Hamilton was signed.  The Devils didn't wait to shop him or see what they could do.  They literally rushed to pay someone, anyone to take him.  Teams have until the end of training camp to make the numbers work.  Why not wait?  The only possible answer is that they had to fit Hamilton in under an internal cap.

I am not saying Studenic would have made a world of a difference by any means, but I do find it interesting that Studenic could barely get into a lineup that includes duds like Tatar, Zacha, Johnsson, Vesey, etc. but somehow finds himself on a line with Seguin and Benn in Dallas.  What are their analytics nerds telling them that ours didn't say?

I also said I don't think much of Wedge in general, but at least he looked like he kinda belonged in the NHL this season.  Hammond looks to be finished in his one game here and Gillies should be shot into the sun.  I would have Wedge over either of those two 100 times out of 100.

 

I am fully bracing myself for having little to no changes this off-season for a majority of the lineup and a lot of lines from the team/Fitz placing this season's issues squarely on goaltending and goaltending alone.  That's the nightmare scenario and Fitz as well as Ruff have already been gearing us up for that by what they have been saying over the past 4-6 weeks.

Edited April 6, 2022 by DevsMan84

[mfitz804]

I’m not so sure Hammond is finished. I can’t imagine they will let Daws play out. 

[Nicomo]

53 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Defense should really be better than it is. PK will be gone, Severson has his moments but sort of makes up for them with his offense, and the rest are underperforming in my opinion. This is a glaring coaching issue that the team seems not to recognize. 

Siegenthaler has actually been one of the better defensive defensemen in league for a lot of the season. He’s had the occasional rough game here or there, but overall very consistent. 

[Fansinz88]

12 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I’m not so sure Hammond is finished. I can’t imagine they will let Daws play out. 

Yeah I imagine he will play 2 or 3. Encouraged by daws but he is years away. This team has to address goaltending in the offseason in a bigger way than the last two years. We need an nhl starter. Not sure where it comes from though.

[Fansinz88]

Crawford was really encouraging more so than Bernier but that was a complete fail. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

6 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I would absolutely take Butcher over Smith and White at this point.  There really wasn't a need to get rid of him, let alone PAY someone to take him.  It really doesn't make sense.

Edit: And it is weird that it happened literally the same afternoon that Hamilton was signed.  The Devils didn't wait to shop him or see what they could do.  They literally rushed to pay someone, anyone to take him.  Teams have until the end of training camp to make the numbers work.  Why not wait?  The only possible answer is that they had to fit Hamilton in under an internal cap.

I am not saying Studenic would have made a world of a difference by any means, but I do find it interesting that Studenic could barely get into a lineup that includes duds like Tatar, Zacha, Johnsson, Vesey, etc. but somehow finds himself on a line with Seguin and Benn in Dallas.  What are their analytics nerds telling them that ours didn't say?

I also said I don't think much of Wedge in general, but at least he looked like he kinda belonged in the NHL this season.  Hammond looks to be finished in his one game here and Gillies should be shot into the sun.  I would have Wedge over either of those two 100 times out of 100.

 

I am fully bracing myself for having little to no changes this off-season for a majority of the lineup and a lot of lines from the team/Fitz placing this season's issues squarely on goaltending and goaltending alone.  That's the nightmare scenario and Fitz as well as Ruff have already been gearing us up for that by what they have been saying over the past 4-6 weeks.

Smith is a 21-year-old having a brutal second season, and he's a former first-rounder who is going to get a good long look...Butcher was never going to play over him.  You hope that this very difficult year (and a coaching staff with a clue) helps Smith become a better player...time will tell.

With Butch, you almost wonder if there's something more going on that we don't know about...sure seems like they decided "This guy can't be back, no matter what."  So no, I don't think the only possible answer is "Internal Cap"...I think it's more they just really soured on him that much.  He was healthy-scratched a hell of a lot during his last season here.

Zacha was coming off his most productive stretch of hockey, Johnsson got off to a good start (even if looking deeper into his numbers strongly suggested that is was unsustainable, which it turned out to be), and Tatar is on a two-year deal...none of these guys were getting mothballed for Studenic.  I'm guessing this whole playing with Seguin and Benn in Dallas is strictly temporary...and is that even accurate, that he's getting all of this time with those two?  Studenic is averaging around 11 minutes of ice time per game with Dallas...not like he's getting any where near typical top-line minutes.  He's played in 8 out of 12 games since going there, so it's not like he's cemented himself into the daily lineup either.

I'm with you, sure I'd probably have Wedge over those two, but that's like saying that I'd rather leave the frat mixer with a 4 instead of a 2.5.  None of them are really helping you long-term.

I'm not assuming the nightmare scenario yet.  Maybe I'm just hoping simple common sense will prevail, and Fitz already realizes that he can't bring this staff back.  If they're here...then yeah, it's going to start to feel like the Devils will win based almost solely on talent alone, and in spite of themselves.  I just don't see how The Three Stooges could possibly and suddenly figure it all out. 

[Jerrydevil]

2 minutes ago, Fansinz88 said:

We need an nhl starter. Not sure where it comes from though.

Should a player like Severson be on the block to try to trade for a goaltender? 

One of the persistent issues for the Devils (besides bad goaltending) is the failure to clear the zone when the simple play presents itself. Daneyko brings it up all the time. It happened again last night and it led to a Rangers PP goal. I tend to lay the blame on the head coach for this.

That being said, the Devil penalty killing has made a big turnaround, so Nasreddine gets some credit for that, I would think. 

[Jerrydevil]

34 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

I am not saying Studenic would have made a world of a difference by any means, but I do find it interesting that Studenic could barely get into a lineup that includes duds like Tatar, Zacha, Johnsson, Vesey, etc. but somehow finds himself on a line with Seguin and Benn in Dallas.  What are their analytics nerds telling them that ours didn't say?

I liked Studenic, to me he passed the eye test as far as skating ability and defensive ability. He also was decent at getting chances but he was not blessed as a finisher. Still, I thought he was better than Vesey.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

7 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

Should a player like Severson be on the block to try to trade for a goaltender? 

One of the persistent issues for the Devils (besides bad goaltending) is the failure to clear the zone when the simple play presents itself. Daneyko brings it up all the time. It happened again last night and it led to a Rangers PP goal. I tend to lay the blame on the head coach for this.

That being said, the Devil penalty killing has made a big turnaround, so Nasreddine gets some credit for that, I would think. 

They've crashed back to Earth pretty hard...the PK is only 71.4% successful in their last 20 GP.  Fair to point out that no numbers are helped by the goaltending though.  

[Nicomo]

2 minutes ago, Jerrydevil said:

Should a player like Severson be on the block to try to trade for a goaltender? 

One of the persistent issues for the Devils (besides bad goaltending) is the failure to clear the zone when the simple play presents itself. Daneyko brings it up all the time. It happened again last night and it led to a Rangers PP goal. I tend to lay the blame on the head coach for this.

That being said, the Devil penalty killing has made a big turnaround, so Nasreddine gets some credit for that, I would think. 

No. Not unless it’s a really good (young) goalie coming back. He’s a point producing top 4 dman at a bargain price. He’s also stated he wants to re-sign with NJ after next year. 

[DevsMan84]

11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Smith is a 21-year-old having a brutal second season, and he's a former first-rounder who is going to get a good long look...Butcher was never going to play over him.  You hope that this very difficult year (and a coaching staff with a clue) helps Smith become a better player...time will tell.

With Butch, you almost wonder if there's something more going on that we don't know about...sure seems like they decided "This guy can't be back, no matter what."  So no, I don't think the only possible answer is "Internal Cap"...I think it's more they just really soured on him that much.  He was healthy-scratched a hell of a lot during his last season here.

Zacha was coming off his most productive stretch of hockey, Johnsson got off to a good start (even if looking deeper into his numbers strongly suggested that is was unsustainable, which it turned out to be), and Tatar is on a two-year deal...none of these guys were getting mothballed for Studenic.  I'm guessing this whole playing with Seguin and Benn in Dallas is strictly temporary...and is that even accurate, that he's getting all of this time with those two?  Studenic is averaging around 11 minutes of ice time per game with Dallas...not like he's getting any where near typical top-line minutes.  He's played in 8 out of 12 games since going there, so it's not like he's cemented himself into the daily lineup either.

I'm with you, sure I'd probably have Wedge over those two, but that's like saying that I'd rather leave the frat mixer with a 4 instead of a 2.5.  None of them are really helping you long-term.

I'm not assuming the nightmare scenario yet.  Maybe I'm just hoping simple common sense will prevail, and Fitz already realizes that he can't bring this staff back.  If they're here...then yeah, it's going to start to feel like the Devils will win based almost solely on talent alone, and in spite of themselves.  I just don't see how The Three Stooges could possibly and suddenly figure it all out. 

If the team decided that Butcher couldn't be back no matter what, why trade him the same afternoon we signed Hamilton to his big contract?  Why not wait the 2+ months to see if we can part with him without giving up a 5th rounder as well?  Half the story here is the timing of the trade.  The only possible explanation I can think of why and how he was traded was that the ownership would only sign off on the Hamilton signing if Fitz could shed salary immediately to keep under an internal cap.

Regardless of getting a long look, Smith has also been scratched for several games this season.  Would have been nice to maybe see Butcher in there instead of say Colton White or having Geertsen play D.  Plus teams are going to have injuries throughout the season.  Why not keep him around just for that since his contract is expiring after this season anyways and we still have tons of cap space?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Still not buying the internal cap...just don't think a team with an internal cap allows the GM to go out and sign one of the priciest UFAs of his class to seven years.  Yeah, maybe Fitz could've been more patient in trying to move him, but I just don't think Butcher was a guy anyone wanted...not at his current hit, anyway.  I can see a team paying him minimum next season as a "what the hell?" kind of move.

Smith made his debut on 10/23 and has played in 57 out of 67 possible games...yes, he's definitely been deservedly scratched here and there, but they were never going to bury him for a Butcher-type.

Not sure it's ever ideal to pay a guy like Butcher over $3.7 million as mothballed insurance just to sit and wait, especially when a guy like Smith is going to get every chance to figure things out.  And it's not like Butcher is any good, really.  I'm not saying I'm some big Colton White fan, but I get paying $750k for a little-used meh player as opposed to $3.7 million+.  

[MadDog2020]

23 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Still not buying the internal cap...just don't think a team with an internal cap allows the GM to go out and sign one of the priciest UFAs of his class to seven years.  Yeah, maybe Fitz could've been more patient in trying to move him, but I just don't think Butcher was a guy anyone wanted...not at his current hit, anyway.  I can see a team paying him minimum next season as a "what the hell?" kind of move.

Smith made his debut on 10/23 and has played in 57 out of 67 possible games...yes, he's definitely been deservedly scratched here and there, but they were never going to bury him for a Butcher-type.

Not sure it's ever ideal to pay a guy like Butcher over $3.7 million as mothballed insurance just to sit and wait, especially when a guy like Smith is going to get every chance to figure things out.  And it's not like Butcher is any good, really.  I'm not saying I'm some big Colton White fan, but I get paying $750k for a little-used meh player as opposed to $3.7 million+.  

With you on the internal cap- don’t think it’s really a thing. However, I’m on the same page with DM84 on a lot of that post. I’m honestly scared. I don’t trust Fitz, and I don’t trust the owners. I could absolutely see Ruff coming back. I could absolutely see Nas back as well, in a scenario where only Recchi gets fired. I also think they’ve been setting up goaltending as the main excuse for this season- plain as day in Fitz’s PC, and whenever Ruff talks about it. I have no faith right now in this organization’s decision makers. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by MadDog2020

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

With you on the internal cap- don’t think it’s really a thing. However, I’m on the same page with DM84 on a lot of that post. I’m honestly scared. 

I want to believe that this organization is not going to fvck up this offseason. Not going to pretend that it’s not a possibility though.  

[DevsMan84]

13 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Still not buying the internal cap...just don't think a team with an internal cap allows the GM to go out and sign one of the priciest UFAs of his class to seven years.  Yeah, maybe Fitz could've been more patient in trying to move him, but I just don't think Butcher was a guy anyone wanted...not at his current hit, anyway.  I can see a team paying him minimum next season as a "what the hell?" kind of move.

Smith made his debut on 10/23 and has played in 57 out of 67 possible games...yes, he's definitely been deservedly scratched here and there, but they were never going to bury him for a Butcher-type.

Not sure it's ever ideal to pay a guy like Butcher over $3.7 million as mothballed insurance just to sit and wait, especially when a guy like Smith is going to get every chance to figure things out.  And it's not like Butcher is any good, really.  I'm not saying I'm some big Colton White fan, but I get paying $750k for a little-used meh player as opposed to $3.7 million+.  

It's not just that, they balked at hiring Laviolette due to cost (which doesn't count against the cap) and are still hanging onto Ruff even has the team gets caved in night after night.  I am not saying that the team's internal cap is at or near the floor, but they are not spending to the cap ceiling and I do not expect them to at this rate.

[mfitz804]

55 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Siegenthaler has actually been one of the better defensive defensemen in league for a lot of the season. He’s had the occasional rough game here or there, but overall very consistent. 

I think there's been a bunch of things that could have been corrected with better positioning. He's been good, I think he could be better. Picking him up might have been a very underrated move. 

[devlman]

1 hour ago, Nicomo said:

Siegenthaler has actually been one of the better defensive defensemen in league for a lot of the season. He’s had the occasional rough game here or there, but overall very consistent. 

I actually think he’s been sh!t post all star game. Great season in that he’s surpassed expectations but he hasn’t been able to handle the second half of the season.

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, devlman said:

I actually think he’s been sh!t post all star game. Great season in that he’s surpassed expectations but he hasn’t been able to handle the second half of the season.

Agreed on this.  He hasn't been that good since the start of Feb.  I would actually say over the past 4-5 weeks Subban has been one of our better defenders.  Go figure.

[NJDevils1214]

I really do believe that individual and team performance would be much better if not for the coaching staff. Swapping the coaches won't fix, or probably help at all, the goaltending, but I don't see any way it doesn't improve almost eveything else.

It seems like every game they get a chance to turn the tide on a power play, usually after gaining some momentum back, and just fail miserably. Every team in the league should take note and take late game penalties to end the game.

Edited April 6, 2022 by NJDevils1214

[DevsMan84]

38 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I really do believe that individual and team performance would be much better if not for the coaching staff. Swapping the coaches won't fix, or probably help at all, the goaltending, but I don't see any way it doesn't improve almost eveything else.

It seems like every game they get a chance to turn the tide on a power play, usually after gaining some momentum back, and just fail miserably. Every team in the league should take note and take late game penalties to end the game.

Someone on twitter (I think it was some hockey analyst/expert but forgot which one) pointed out a month or so ago the Devils defensive scheme that they run under Nass/Ruff doesn't help goalies at all.  The scheme they run basically has the defender constantly cheating in their own zone to set up a quick breakout or breakout pass.  That often leaves other teams players not covered and thus leaving our goalies out to dry.  You got to wonder how much things would improve just from running a system where we do not have to depend on a goalie to make saves on a constant stream of great chances.

FWIW this applies to Daws right now.  Gillies and Hammond are just sh!t.

[mfitz804]

17 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Someone on twitter (I think it was some hockey analyst/expert but forgot which one) pointed out a month or so ago the Devils defensive scheme that they run under Nass/Ruff doesn't help goalies at all.  The scheme they run basically has the defender constantly cheating in their own zone to set up a quick breakout or breakout pass.  That often leaves other teams players not covered and thus leaving our goalies out to dry.  You got to wonder how much things would improve just from running a system where we do not have to depend on a goalie to make saves on a constant stream of great chances.

That's exactly how it would help. Again, not saying it fixes everything, but it certainly improves our situation. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

Someone on twitter (I think it was some hockey analyst/expert but forgot which one) pointed out a month or so ago the Devils defensive scheme that they run under Nass/Ruff doesn't help goalies at all.  The scheme they run basically has the defender constantly cheating in their own zone to set up a quick breakout or breakout pass.  That often leaves other teams players not covered and thus leaving our goalies out to dry.  You got to wonder how much things would improve just from running a system where we do not have to depend on a goalie to make saves on a constant stream of great chances.

FWIW this applies to Daws right now.  Gillies and Hammond are just sh!t.

Hope Gillies enjoyed playing in 17 NHL games over a 2 1/2 month period...because that sh!t ain't NEVER happenin' again.  

[mfitz804]

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Hope Gillies enjoyed playing in 17 NHL games over a 2 1/2 month period...because that sh!t ain't NEVER happenin' again.  

Never say never, if Daws or Hammond goes down, you know who is getting the call.