What to do with #2?

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I'd just caution everyone on using highlight reels to get attached to kids. This is what Rangers fans did to convince themselves that getting Kakko was a steal, praying the Devils didn't take Kakko over Jack. 

If Montreal selects Slafkovsky, the Devils get the consensus number-1 player that has been consensus-1 for almost 2 full years. 

Like Nolan Patrick was....

[CarpathianForest]

15 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I'd just caution everyone on using highlight reels to get attached to kids. This is what Rangers fans did to convince themselves that getting Kakko was a steal, praying the Devils didn't take Kakko over Jack. 

If Montreal selects Slafkovsky, the Devils get the consensus number-1 player that has been consensus-1 for almost 2 full years. 

Agreed. I know the common sense is BPA and we either get one of Wright or Slav,  but we definitely should test the waters on a trade for a goalie, package and other scenarios especially since Wright and Slav are both contesting for best player in the draft

[SterioDesign]

12 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Nolan Patrick was much less a consensus 1OA in the months leading up to the draft than Shane Wright is. 

The existence of another bust doesn’t mean Shane Wright will be one, though. Didnt Pulijarvi (however the fvck you spell that) have similar buzz and play a similar game to Slaf? 

Well i just meant that being projected #1 for a long time doesn't mean much if other players rise through the ranks and outplay you. Hischier and Makar are both obviously better than him now and they were just rising late. I know this sounds hindsight 20/20 and well, it is but Nico indeed rose through the draft like crazy and kept progressing while Nolan stayed stagnant and injury prone. And i remember claims about Nolan being the #1 consensus for a long time when i was team Nico before the draft and that was the point. Nico was rising so how high was his ceiling then.

Also Wright has been consensus #1 for awhile... but he's also been consensus of not being a great first overall pick too. 

 

[nessus]

8 hours ago, Lateralous said:

Honestly, I can’t remember the last time I watched Ottawa but I was under the impression Brady was just a younger version of Matthew Tkachuk.  I see he led a crappy Ottawa team in points this year. Why would that be a disaster?  

Disaster might be a bit of a strong word. I find Brady to be quite overrated, though, and certainly a considerably lesser version of his older brother. I appreciate that he brings some grit, and he definitely is not the type of perimeter player that we seem to have a surplus of here. But he is signed long term at > $8 MM cap hit, while the Devils already have Dougie, Nico, and Jack locked up long term for comparable amounts. Bratt's next contract might be up there too. Meanwhile, there's an opportunity to get a cost controlled Wright or Slafkovsky, which is looking more and more promising with each day that goes by.

[SterioDesign]

15 hours ago, MB3 said:

I’m gonna keep beating this dead horse until i die.

who would you (within reason) trade 2OA for?

some names i’ve been hearing around the rumor mill (my toilet) today: Hellebyuck? DeBrincat? Tkachuk is an obvious “yes”. 

I think Debrincat could make sense from a very realistic stance. But i'm not sure what they are thinking overall...

Realistically... if you're Chicago, you realize that this group is not winning another cup and that you have assets with value that you should flip while you can and rebuild the next core. You keep Toews probably but Kane should be traded. They just got Jones (by paying a LOT) who's 27 so that's what makes me wonder what their plan is... Debrincat is kind of in that sweet spot at 24 where he's good enough to build around but he's also the max value you could get for a rebuild. Really depends on if they want to rebuild or re-tool. Dach is good but not sure if he's a player you build around. They will likely have a shot at Bedard or Mischkov next year though. So Debrincat could potentially make sense on paper but we'd have to give up more than a 2nd overall though obviously. Their best chance would be to re-tool like the Rangers did and not wait til it's too late and trade players in their prime for good value and hope for the best.

[SterioDesign]

5 minutes ago, MB3 said:

It just again shows how bizarre the Seth Jones signing was. Not that he isn't a solid defenseman, but that's a "win now" move for a team that hasn't finished in the top-20 in the league since 2016. They're really old and really slow, and they just strapped on a major contract to a guy who will be wildly overpaid by the time the team enters its next contention window. 

It's the one thing the Devils did well (by doing little to nothing at all) -- they aren't saddled with huge contracts for washed up guys by the time our core hits their stride. 

Yeah a move like this should indicate that they will NOT move debrincat cause he's the closest in age to that "investment" and he's their best player. But they should still be open to offers and see what they can get for Kane and him. You sure don't want to waste years of guys liike that in their prime just to "get by".

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Yeah it wasn't so long ago that those who were pleading for Shero to "just sign someone" were bringing up guys like James Neal and JVR.  The Neal signing was especially disastrous for Calgary (they dealt him to Edmonton, who then bought him out with two years left on a five-year deal).  And neither one would've moved the needle for the Devils at all.

I get that there will always be teams willing to go the high-priced UFA route, and it's not like every single one of those contracts were regrettable, but man do a lot of them turn sour, and often with more years left on them than you would like.  

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

11 minutes ago, MB3 said:

JVR is still playing really well. $7m/y isn't much in today's NHL, and he's a solid defensive LW who's capable of driving play. I would've loved the Devils to have made that move, even with retrospect. I think I wanted Neal, too, but I don't think anyone in the world wanted Neal at that contract.

He wouldn't have made that much of a difference (given all of the other holes), and fans would've been hoping for (expecting) him to hit well over 30 goals again, which would've been asking a lot.  He really needs to go somewhere he can be a solid, secondary contributor...he's the guy you add to a core, as opposed to him being one of the early pieces....if he had come here, he would've been asked to do too much, and fans would've seen him as a bigger signing than they should have...the classic "He making bigger money now, so he should be putting up better numbers."  

Since signing that deal, as far as the simplest at-a-glance numbers go, he's basically been...well, JVR...just at a higher cost:

Prior to new deal:  27 G and 26 A per 82 GP

Since signing:  26 A and 25 A per 82 GP

So yeah, as long as fans knew what they were getting, can't really call JVR a disappointment.  Just not a guy who would've been right for a team like the Devils at that time (though I guess coming off a playoff appearance, I could see why some were interested, as a "This guy could make us better in 2018-19, could help us continue what was started in 2017-18" player.

[StarDew]

https://pucksandpitchforks.com/2022/05/24/prominent-espn-broadcaster-great-advice-new-jersey-devils/

[Nicomo]

12 minutes ago, StarDew said:

https://pucksandpitchforks.com/2022/05/24/prominent-espn-broadcaster-great-advice-new-jersey-devils/

I’m going to need him to go ahead and redact that 2nd sentence lol. 

[Devil Dan 56]

It’s funny… a few months ago I was thinking Slafkovsky would be nice consolation prize at 5-7. Now with all these highlights and hype I’m hoping he’s around at #2. I’m a fan of BPA but damn if he doesn’t just really fill a need, especially with Zacha being such a flop this year.

I just hope we make the right decision between Wright/Slaf/Cooley/one of the defensemen or a trade. I really don’t know if I trust Fitz, but I guess I’m gonna have to. He seems to have been right on the Luke pick. And Holtz has shown some promise. 

[Nicomo]

23 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

I just hope we make the right decision between Wright/Slaf/Cooley/one of the defensemen or a trade. I really don’t know if I trust Fitz, but I guess I’m gonna have to. He seems to have been right on the Luke pick. And Holtz has shown some promise. 

The Mercer pick looks great so far, too. 

[Devil Dan 56]

6 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

The Mercer pick looks great so far, too. 

True, looks like a steal. We’ll see how Mukhamadullin does with a full year in NA next season too. 

[Guadana]

14 hours ago, CarpathianForest said:

Agreed. I know the common sense is BPA and we either get one of Wright or Slav,  but we definitely should test the waters on a trade for a goalie, package and other scenarios especially since Wright and Slav are both contesting for best player in the draft

Nope, we don’t. Slaf/Wright or something crazy like M Tkachuk.

 

8 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

It’s funny… a few months ago I was thinking Slafkovsky would be nice consolation prize at 5-7. Now with all these highlights and hype I’m hoping he’s around at #2. I’m a fan of BPA but damn if he doesn’t just really fill a need, especially with Zacha being such a flop this year.

I just hope we make the right decision between Wright/Slaf/Cooley/one of the defensemen or a trade. I really don’t know if I trust Fitz, but I guess I’m gonna have to. He seems to have been right on the Luke pick. And Holtz has shown some promise. 

I like Fitz, he always try to do what actually team needs, and try to find ways to solve the problems, but his draft job is questionable. Outside of “consensus” he did make only one good “scouting” pick who address needs for now. May be two with Malek and  maybe Bardakov, Vilen is good scouting pick, but he is #14 or something like that in the LD line. Other guys were consensus picks like Holtz, Mercer, Luke, Daws; some guys were bad picks like Hurtig, Baumgartner and Schleine, Stillman and Shaq were drafted too early, he could managed it much better. Salminen isn’t bad pick, but he wasn’t scouted great, his production was good, but his tools are very questionable. And he did draft only one right defenseman who was fockin Hurtig. He doesn’t draft Russian goalies, he didn’t try to spend a late round pick on a player with good skills with high risk and high price like Bratt and Gritsyuk. He didn’t try to trade picks(teams did that and Devils didnt) but he did have opportunity to do this. Picks of Stillman and Shaq should make in second round, we could end with more talent.

I understand his “believe in this specific guy”, in the end he drafted enough talent, but I’m not a fan of his drafting. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

16 hours ago, MB3 said:

retrospect he doesn't have a spot on this team, but yeah -- like you said, the Devils needed another top-6 winger and they just came off the first "successful" season in like 7 years. Fans wanted more, and instead we got...

Well, ya know.

It's funny, I wonder if Flyer fans are down on JVR...and if so, if they really have any right to be?  His first three years were EXACTLY what they should have expected to get out of him (actually even a little bit better).  This fourth one was not good, but any player can have a down year, and his team stinks...that can drag down anyone's numbers.  He still managed 24 goals (and played in every game), so it's not like he was way below expectations there.

If he had come here, he likely would've become a whipping boy very quickly...partly because of the money he'd be making, and partly because he was coming off a career-high 36-goal season...the guess here is that would've (unfairly) become the measuring stick for a lot of Devils fans, with some even thinking "Wow, maybe he can put in 40 for us"...and if he managed, say, only 25 goals or so (and 50 points, provided he played in 80+ games), or endured long scoring droughts (as Palms sometimes did, even when he was finishing seasons with the almost same per 82 GP rate for most of his time), there'd be some complaining.  When you're making bigger money (relatively big money at the time JVR signed), expectations can be distorted, often unfairly.  And the guys making the bigger coin are often the ones fans start to pick on, even if they're merely doing what really should've been expected of them all along.

Gomez and Holik with the Rangers are great examples of that.  Gomer's two seasons with the Rangers were completely "normal" Gomez seasons...ditto Holik's, really.  But of course, the Rangers made the age-old of mistake of "Pay good players a fortune, and then ask more of them than they're really capable of providing."  It's hard to feel for guys being paid more over a few years than most will see in a lifetime, but so many of these guys are more or less set up to fail...they're signed to contracts that they have little chance of ever living up to...suddenly their typical production isn't enough (or in the case of coming off a career year, returning to their typical production becomes a problem). 

In ways things evolved perfectly for Taylor Hall...he's in a complementary role with Boston and is being compensated within reason for what he brings.  Imagine him putting up his current numbers for this Devils team, with him making $10 million or so?  People would be losing their sh!t left and right.        

[DevsMan84]

This past weekend I was poking around at what the stat nerds were thinking and a lot of them seemed pretty set on Cooley.

After learning that I am now fully on board with the draft Slaf train.

[MadDog2020]

1 hour ago, DevsMan84 said:

This past weekend I was poking around at what the stat nerds were thinking and a lot of them seemed pretty set on Cooley.

After learning that I am now fully on board with the draft Slaf train.

fvck the stat nerds. They’re wrong a lot more than they’re right. 

[mfitz804]

4 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

fvck the stat nerds. They’re wrong a lot more than they’re right. 

Nobody wants to fvck a stat nerd. 

[DevsMan84]

1 hour ago, MadDog2020 said:

fvck the stat nerds. They’re wrong a lot more than they’re right. 

It's basically the same thing with Mike Francesa.  If you bet against his picks you will more often than not wind up being ahead than behind.

Edited May 25, 2022 by DevsMan84

[Puckbuster]

They should keep the pick and make sure they get the best player possible.  They can always acquire players via trade or free agency.  It would suck to pass over a superstar.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

21 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Nobody wants to fvck a stat nerd. 

This is Meghan Chayka who is a data scientist and co-founder of the ice hockey analytics firm Stathletes. 

I move your previous remarks be stricken from the record sir. 

[Nicomo]

52 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

This is Meghan Chayka who is a data scientist and co-founder of the ice hockey analytics firm Stathletes. 

I move your previous remarks be stricken from the record sir. 

Got ‘em 

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

This is Meghan Chayka who is a data scientist and co-founder of the ice hockey analytics firm Stathletes. 

I move your previous remarks be stricken from the record sir. 

 

36 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Got ‘em 

Nope, she's probably boring as fvck and/or makes you use a protractor so you are hitting it at the correct angle. Then she's spending the whole time comparing your performance to her Anticipated Orgasm %. 

Pass. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by mfitz804

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

 

Nope, she's probably boring as fvck and/or makes you use a protractor so you are hitting it at the correct angle. Then she's spending the whole time comparing your performance to her Anticipated Orgasm %. 

Pass. 

Sorry, you said "Nobody" not "I don't" and I think I could find people willing. 

[mfitz804]

23 minutes ago, Chimaira_Devil_#9 said:

Sorry, you said "Nobody" not "I don't" and I think I could find people willing. 

You caught me, I was talking about male stat nerds. Very sexist of me. #Cancelmfitz804

Edited May 26, 2022 by mfitz804