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What to do with #2?


Jerzey
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What should we do with the pick?  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. What should we do with the pick?

    • Draft Slafkovsky
    • Draft Nemec
    • Draft Jiricek
    • Trade down
    • Trade for immediate help
    • Draft Cooley
    • Other


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4 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

If this playoffs has shown anything, it’s that goaltending can be insanely unpredictable. Cinco Domingo has a 3-2 series lead on the probable Vezina winner. Carolina got some wins out of a 22 year old rookie in their 3-2 lead. Swayman took the net from Ullmark in Boston. Oettinger has gone save for save with Markstrom. 

I’d like to see Fitz try to get creative finding a goalie that’s stuck on a team with no room for them and then see how Blackwood does healthy and without Nas. Blackwood’s an RFA next offseason so it’ll be an important year for him. 

You have to keep the number 2 pick unless you’re absolutely blown away by an offer

This is a good plan. If there is a goalie available, get him and go with the New Guy-Blackwood tandem with Bernier as a 3rd option if he is healthy, or Daws when he’s not. 

Kind of a lot to pay Bernier to not play, but I honestly don’t think he’ll be healthy so it’s probably not going to be an issue. 

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23 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

This is a good plan. If there is a goalie available, get him and go with the New Guy-Blackwood tandem with Bernier as a 3rd option if he is healthy, or Daws when he’s not. 

Kind of a lot to pay Bernier to not play, but I honestly don’t think he’ll be healthy so it’s probably not going to be an issue. 

Other teams don't seem to have a problem putting players on LTIR only to have them magically recover when cap space opens up. We should take advantage of it to.

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Posted (edited)

There is no chance that this picked is moved for a goalie. 

Say what you want about Devils management, but they are not stupid enough to repudiate a major windfall and waste an extremely-valuable future asset to address an immediate need.

This pick is an opportunity to obtain an elite talent, for nothing more than an entry-level contract, and that will remain cost-controlled organizational property for multiple years. 
 

This asset is not about next season, and it would be a malpractice for Fitz to “spend” it for the opportunity to pay an older player market rate for fewer years. 
 

Give up the ghost. 

Edited by smelly
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4 minutes ago, smelly said:

There is no chance that this picked is moved for a goalie. 

Say what you want about Devils management, but they are not stupid enough to repudiate a major windfall and waste an extremely-valuable future asset to address an immediate need.

This pick is an opportunity to obtain an elite talent, for nothing more than an entry-level contract, and that will remain cost-controlled organizational property for multiple years. 
 

This asset is not about next season, and it would be a malpractice for Fitz to “spend” it for the opportunity to pay an older player market rate for fewer years. 
 

Give up the ghost. 

Again, I think people were more open-minded to moving the pick for a "right now" kind of asset had it been 5th or 6th overall.  At 2nd overall, it's a much different ballgame...no one's clamoring for a pick that high to be moved for a Fiala-type.

As for a goalie, SD and others made a compelling enough case...they're right, it's too risky...a guy like Knight could wind up having a good enough career that maybe 10 years from now we're wondering "Oh man, what if?" (assuming of course there was even a chance that Knight was ever available at this point), but Devils aren't in the position to take that kind of a chance and have it blow up.

At the same time, at some point, it's gotta become about next season.  Next season, you'll have a 21-year-old Hughes (who's clearly figured out how to play in the NHL), a 23-year-old Hischier, a 24-year-old Bratt (fully expect him to sign long-term), a 29-year-old Hamilton...I know it's still a relatively young team (Mercer, Smith, etc), but next year can't be yet another season over by December.  Hopefully whoever they take with the 2OA is on the Devils in 2-3 years, max.  I'll obviously happily take sooner than that, but trying to be realistic with expectations.  

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57 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

This is a good plan. If there is a goalie available, get him and go with the New Guy-Blackwood tandem with Bernier as a 3rd option if he is healthy, or Daws when he’s not. 

Kind of a lot to pay Bernier to not play, but I honestly don’t think he’ll be healthy so it’s probably not going to be an issue. 

If i was to bet, Bernier is done and will be LTIR next year.

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Just now, Chuck the Duck said:

If i was to bet, Bernier is done and will be LTIR next year.

Pretty much what I'm expecting, regardless of what we hear.  I think it's Blackwood and someone else.  I have no idea who the someone else will be...wouldn't totally shock me if it was Daws, but I get the feeling there will be a new body in the fold, someone who will come as a surprise.  

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8 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Again, I think people were more open-minded to moving the pick for a "right now" kind of asset had it been 5th or 6th overall.  At 2nd overall, it's a much different ballgame...no one's clamoring for a pick that high to be moved for a Fiala-type.

As for a goalie, SD and others made a compelling enough case...they're right, it's too risky...a guy like Knight could wind up having a good enough career that maybe 10 years from now we're wondering "Oh man, what if?" (assuming of course there was even a chance that Knight was ever available at this point), but Devils aren't in the position to take that kind of a chance and have it blow up.

At the same time, at some point, it's gotta become about next season.  Next season, you'll have a 21-year-old Hughes (who's clearly figured out how to play in the NHL), a 23-year-old Hischier, a 24-year-old Bratt (fully expect him to sign long-term), a 29-year-old Hamilton...I know it's still a relatively young team (Mercer, Smith, etc), but next year can't be yet another season over by December.  Hopefully whoever they take with the 2OA is on the Devils in 2-3 years, max.  I'll obviously happily take sooner than that, but trying to be realistic with expectations.  

I doubt it will be traded for a goalie, but if there were a possibility of it happening, a guy like Knight who was a first round pick and is still cost controlled would have to be it. I certainly don't think its a guarantee, no player is, even whoever we draft at #2. While adding Knight would technically be "addressing a current need", its also locking down your starting goalie for the next 8-10 years. We aren't talking about a guy that would play here two years and then leave as a UFA. 

Of course, superimposed on top of all of this is the fact that the GM in Florida would have to be completely out of his mind to make Knight available. 

1 minute ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Pretty much what I'm expecting, regardless of what we hear.  I think it's Blackwood and someone else.  I have no idea who the someone else will be...wouldn't totally shock me if it was Daws, but I get the feeling there will be a new body in the fold, someone who will come as a surprise.  

I think that's right, and while Hamburglar is a fun nickname, let's get a guy who can play instead. 

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11 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Again, I think people were more open-minded to moving the pick for a "right now" kind of asset had it been 5th or 6th overall.  At 2nd overall, it's a much different ballgame...no one's clamoring for a pick that high to be moved for a Fiala-type.

As for a goalie, SD and others made a compelling enough case...they're right, it's too risky...a guy like Knight could wind up having a good enough career that maybe 10 years from now we're wondering "Oh man, what if?" (assuming of course there was even a chance that Knight was ever available at this point), but Devils aren't in the position to take that kind of a chance and have it blow up.

At the same time, at some point, it's gotta become about next season.  Next season, you'll have a 21-year-old Hughes (who's clearly figured out how to play in the NHL), a 23-year-old Hischier, a 24-year-old Bratt (fully expect him to sign long-term), a 29-year-old Hamilton...I know it's still a relatively young team (Mercer, Smith, etc), but next year can't be yet another season over by December.  Hopefully whoever they take with the 2OA is on the Devils in 2-3 years, max.  I'll obviously happily take sooner than that, but trying to be realistic with expectations.  

Many other decisions this summer will undoubtedly (and should) be about next season. But the use of the No. 2 overall will not be one of them. 
 

Fitz will absolutely address G in some way (even if that means overpaying a vet in FA for 2-3 years), and he seems certain to add experienced size and grit up front, but those will not involve the pick, which is much more about tomorrow. 

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1 minute ago, smelly said:

Fitz will absolutely address G in some way (even if that means overpaying a vet in FA for 2-3 years), and he seems certain to add experienced size and grit up front, but those will not involve the pick, which is much more about tomorrow. 

I expect this will be the correct outcome, and that the FA will not be Husso. 

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7 minutes ago, smelly said:

Many other decisions this summer will undoubtedly (and should) be about next season. But the use of the No. 2 overall will not be one of them. 
 

Fitz will absolutely address G in some way (even if that means overpaying a vet in FA for 2-3 years), and he seems certain to add experienced size and grit up front, but those will not involve the pick, which is much more about tomorrow. 

Agree with the first part, I think the only way that pick gets moved is down in the draft, but I think Fitz will just take who he's going to take with his 2OA pick and go from there.

Also agree that he'll make some moves, and that there will be goalie brought into the mix who at the very least will have us both surprised and intrigued.  I'm still hopeful that Zacha, Tatar and Johnsson are gone, but I get the feeling it will probably only be one, maybe two max.  At least one of them will be back.

10 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I expect this will be the correct outcome, and that the FA will not be Husso. 

And of course, after a couple of losses with Husso in net (he got lit up), the Blues have gone to Binnington, who's played well and won a couple of games.  So who knows how hard the Blues work to keep Husso now (especially if some team is willing to overpay drastically for him).   

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7 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Agree with the first part, I think the only way that pick gets moved is down in the draft, but I think Fitz will just take who he's going to take with his 2OA pick and go from there.

Also agree that he'll make some moves, and that there will be goalie brought into the mix who at the very least will have us both surprised and intrigued.  I'm still hopeful that Zacha, Tatar and Johnsson are gone, but I get the feeling it will probably only be one, maybe two max.  At least one of them will be back.

And of course, after a couple of losses with Husso in net (he got lit up), the Blues have gone to Binnington, who's played well and won a couple of games.  So who knows how hard the Blues work to keep Husso now (especially if some team is willing to overpay drastically for him).   

I believe they will keep him, and if they don't, I believe someone will out bid us or be more desirable than us. 

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Ive been doing some research on Cooley too to see what he can bring and i gotta say he's also a very good player.

I think he's the better overall player and a safer pick than Slafkvosky cause he's been scouted a lot more i feel and he's been steadier. While i see some context that may have pushed Slafkovsky's stock up a bit that may or may not be misleading.

It's true that Cooley is a smaller guy doing basically what Bratt, Nico and Jack are already doing though. But if he's the best player well. Maybe that's also the move.

I do think that Slafvkosky does fill a need IF he reached his potential and bring something that we don't have already. It's gonna be interesting.

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2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Again, I think people were more open-minded to moving the pick for a "right now" kind of asset had it been 5th or 6th overall.  At 2nd overall, it's a much different ballgame...no one's clamoring for a pick that high to be moved for a Fiala-type.

As for a goalie, SD and others made a compelling enough case...they're right, it's too risky...a guy like Knight could wind up having a good enough career that maybe 10 years from now we're wondering "Oh man, what if?" (assuming of course there was even a chance that Knight was ever available at this point), but Devils aren't in the position to take that kind of a chance and have it blow up.

At the same time, at some point, it's gotta become about next season.  Next season, you'll have a 21-year-old Hughes (who's clearly figured out how to play in the NHL), a 23-year-old Hischier, a 24-year-old Bratt (fully expect him to sign long-term), a 29-year-old Hamilton...I know it's still a relatively young team (Mercer, Smith, etc), but next year can't be yet another season over by December.  Hopefully whoever they take with the 2OA is on the Devils in 2-3 years, max.  I'll obviously happily take sooner than that, but trying to be realistic with expectations.  

The beauty of stockpiling picks and prospects all these years is that we have plenty of assets we can offer in a trade for ‘right now’-help that doesn’t involve parting with a potentially elite 2O.

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I keep reading conflicting things about Slaf's skating.  Some reports I see say he's a good skater and others say he needs work.  Watching some video of him I would say he is about average.  Way too many times good prospects just never reach that next level due to their poor skating abilities.

I am still on team Cooley as Slaf still gives me too much of a Kakko/Zacha vibe.  However, he does seem to have a better work ethic and hockey IQ than either of them so if he is indeed the pick for the Devils, I won't be upset by any means.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, let's listen scouching, who rank Lambert as 1OA full year. The most fun part when Detroit drafted Snider. His reaction was tremendous. 

 

Cooley IS NOT the better overall player. He can be better playmaker... or better center. Thats all. Stereo, when you are using "overall" argument, think about what does it mean. 

You can watch games of Cooley when he did play with Howard and stuck in defensive zone from time to time, and when coaches added Gauthier to him, they finally started to play like a cheat line, because Gauthier did make all the dirty work. Cooley do nothing on the boards, in the corners and his game outside of perimeter is questionable. 

Thats great to have skill players, watch on the breakaways and fast games. Like Devils did in the last season, that's svck they losing, svck on the boards and didn't score on rebounds and by redirects.  Cooley is all about the same.

"Worser" overall Slafkivsky can play on the boards, create space for partners and he is very good puck handler. 

On the other hand Cooley is been scouted a lot more. Thats strong.

 

The thing that really interesting for me is the guys, who did whining more than others about how bad we are, asking for Cooley on the draft. 

Anyway Fitz was clear when he talk about what he wanna see from the team, what he wanna add and how he wanna treat the team. If someone will not give a huge offer, Fitz will draft Slaf or Jiricek. May be Wright if Mtl will make surprise move.

Edited by Guadana
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1 hour ago, devlman said:

The beauty of stockpiling picks and prospects all these years is that we have plenty of assets we can offer in a trade for ‘right now’-help that doesn’t involve parting with a potentially elite 2O.

From what I can tell we only have our own picks going forward with 2 additional 4th rd picks this year. Not sure there's much value there. Hypothetically who are the plenty of assets we can and would be willing to offer up for right now help? 

And I'll really piss most of you off, there's no guarantee  the 2OA turns out to be "elite" I don't think Nico is elite, I know Kakko isn't "elite". There's no guarantees.  So really appreciate you using "potentially"  and I think it was Jag who mentioned yesterday it's old sitting back waiting and hoping guys work out as they grow up. I think it could be premature to pencil in a 18 year old kid who most here including me haven't see play a game other than maybe a Olympic game or watched a hype youtube video as Jack's winger going into next season as has been done already here. Granted some have said this is a tomorrow move, how many tomorrow's is the unknown.

But hey this is what our playoff seasons are now so again it's a win and 2 is better than anything lower. 

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15 minutes ago, Guadana said:

Yeah, let's listen scouching, who rank Lambert as 1OA full year. The most fun part when Detroit drafted Snider. His reaction was tremendous. 

 

Cooley IS NOT the better overall player. He can be better playmaker... or better center. Thats all. Stereo, when you are using "overall" argument, think about what does it mean. 

You can watch games of Cooley when he did play with Howard and stuck in defensive zone from time to time, and when coaches added Gauthier to him, they finally started to play like a cheat line, because Gauthier did make all the dirty work. Cooley do nothing on the boards, in the corners and his game outside of perimeter is questionable. 

Thats great to have skill players, watch on the breakaways and fast games. Like Devils did in the last season, that's svck they losing, svck on the boards and didn't score on rebounds and by redirects.  Cooley is all about the same.

"Worser" overall Slafkivsky can play on the boards, create space for partners and he is very good puck handler. 

On the other hand Cooley is been scouted a lot more. Thats strong.

 

The thing that really interesting for me is the guys, who did whining more than others about how bad we are, asking for Cooley on the draft. 

Anyway Fitz was clear when he talk about what he wanna see from the team, what he wanna add and how he wanna treat the team. If someone will not give a huge offer, Fitz will draft Slaf or Jiricek. May be Wright if Mtl will make surprise move.

Of course you had to add that in there to take your little pot-shot at other posters.

Both Slaf and Cooley have been pretty interchangeable on every single scouting report/list I have seen at number 2.  So unless you are some pro scout that I am unaware of, your opinion of either is as good as any other here on the board.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, DevsMan84 said:

Of course you had to add that in there to take your little pot-shot at other posters.

Both Slaf and Cooley have been pretty interchangeable on every single scouting report/list I have seen at number 2.  So unless you are some pro scout that I am unaware of, your opinion of either is as good as any other here on the board.

I feel we can handle it.  My track record is very good(better than a lot of scouts, because i`m watching players a lot, but only limited part of players, I did watch about 25+ USHL games this year and I can`t believe that a lot of scouts did that, because I read them and I see where their lack of watching games is) and I`m watching much more games than people from this board. And some guys from this board have vision, some not. That`s ok, everyone have pros and cons. I can`t understand nothing in goalies, I believe Sterio is very good in that. Some are very hard on the team, I can`t be that hard on the team and always more optimistic. I don`t think it is a bad way to chear for the team, but sometimes it doesn`t work, like in Zacha situation. I did wait more from him too long. Because of Zacha I did change my list of my preferences, now I put compete level before every "skill". Lundell was a last straw. I did like his game very much, but I was afraid of his lack of high speed, awesome shot etc. The thing where he was the best was his discipline and compete level, his position selection. And whooala he is a great player. And a lot of players with good skills but with lack of compete level  losing in develop. 
But I can`t understand that if the man can`t live with bad results, whining about lack of winning all the time and asking more  for the team, why he is asking the same. You are the guy who is very hard too and you are watching a lot of games as I understand and you must know where Devils lose. We don`t need to watch at advenced stats, it`s easy thing. I`m absolutely agree with you about coaching, personally I cant live with Smith and always whining about his game, because it realy create the pain in my body. 
Thank God, Fitz did make great job to replace Butcher&Smith`s and the Vilen thing is a big sign of future replacement, I hope. Because if we put Vilen to Utica, Okhotiuk or Bahl should play in the big club.

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39 minutes ago, titans04 said:

From what I can tell we only have our own picks going forward with 2 additional 4th rd picks this year. Not sure there's much value there. Hypothetically who are the plenty of assets we can and would be willing to offer up for right now help? 

And I'll really piss most of you off, there's no guarantee  the 2OA turns out to be "elite" I don't think Nico is elite, I know Kakko isn't "elite". There's no guarantees.  So really appreciate you using "potentially"  and I think it was Jag who mentioned yesterday it's old sitting back waiting and hoping guys work out as they grow up. I think it could be premature to pencil in a 18 year old kid who most here including me haven't see play a game other than maybe a Olympic game or watched a hype youtube video as Jack's winger going into next season as has been done already here. Granted some have said this is a tomorrow move, how many tomorrow's is the unknown.

But hey this is what our playoff seasons are now so again it's a win and 2 is better than anything lower. 

Sorry, meant the stockpile of draft selections we’ve made that are now in the system as prospects. We have one of the best prospect systems in the league. Zacha is also a player some ignorant GM may still bite on, too. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Guadana said:

Yeah, let's listen scouching, who rank Lambert as 1OA full year. The most fun part when Detroit drafted Snider. His reaction was tremendous. 

Cooley IS NOT the better overall player. He can be better playmaker... or better center. Thats all. Stereo, when you are using "overall" argument, think about what does it mean. 

You can watch games of Cooley when he did play with Howard and stuck in defensive zone from time to time, and when coaches added Gauthier to him, they finally started to play like a cheat line, because Gauthier did make all the dirty work. Cooley do nothing on the boards, in the corners and his game outside of perimeter is questionable. 

Thats great to have skill players, watch on the breakaways and fast games. Like Devils did in the last season, that's svck they losing, svck on the boards and didn't score on rebounds and by redirects.  Cooley is all about the same.

"Worser" overall Slafkivsky can play on the boards, create space for partners and he is very good puck handler. 

On the other hand Cooley is been scouted a lot more. Thats strong.

The thing that really interesting for me is the guys, who did whining more than others about how bad we are, asking for Cooley on the draft. 

Anyway Fitz was clear when he talk about what he wanna see from the team, what he wanna add and how he wanna treat the team. If someone will not give a huge offer, Fitz will draft Slaf or Jiricek. May be Wright if Mtl will make surprise move.

If we'd stop listening to people who were once wrong about some prospects. We literally wouldn't be listening to any scouts ever haha

That's how you build an opinion, you listen to ALL the opinions, from everyone and all angles and see where they differ. Then research more on these areas. It's all part of the process. Right now there's conflicting reports on Slafkovsky skating for exemple, are half of them lying or something? No, people see things differently, so you gather all the info you can.

Cooley is a possibility for us to pick, i don't see the harm in trying to get to him more

Also i don't think (well i hope) you were not targeting me about the fans whining about how bad we were. Cause i do believe i'm one of the most patient poster on this board when it comes to our rebuilt and defended it countless time and preached how patient we had to be with it. Also when we were super old and super bad years ago i really told myself that if we'd get young guys on the team that i'd be ultra patient with them cause i much rather see young guys struggling but learning than old over the hill guys patching holes and failing, getting away with murder out there while a rookie would make one mistake and get benched for the rest of the game in the Deboer era. I legit don't care about all these losing seasons as long as we're building a team that can win a cup. I personally don't care about rushing things to just be good enough to be a forever bubble team just to say we made the playoffs.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

If we'd stop listening to people who were once wrong about some prospects. We literally wouldn't be listening to any scouts ever.

That's how you build an opinion, you listen to ALL the opinions, from everyone and all angles and see where they differ. Then research more on these areas. It's all part of the process. Right now there's conflicting reports on Slafkovsky skating for exemple, are half of them lying or something? No, people see things differently, so you gather all the info you can.

Cooley is a possibility for us to pick, i don't see the harm in trying to get to him more

Absolutely agree. I still reading them as much as I can find a time for that. Guy like Pronman make a lot of misses, but he makes A LOT of scouting job and he is watching a lot of players. Can`t imagine how much time he spend on it. Guy like Button is  clickbait person sometimes and I can`t believe he is watching all of the players and I hear it, when he talk about them on tv, but, man. He has good assistants who  spend a lot of time. He put Perevalov on 16 place. I understand why NA writers don`t know anything real about him and put him in the second or even in the third round. But Button somehow found him(or his assistants). I did watch enough of MHL and understand why he rank so high(like me, Perevalov is great, I hope he will fall because of new russian factor and devils will draft him in the second round). It`s a sign to read him, because he or his guys can find another gems in the mud. It`s easy to watch USHL, because you can watch 10-12 players from the future draft in one game. But it`s so much harder to watch euro players. Reason why I like Djurgardens.  

And btw I agree with scouts who has questions abouts Slafkovsky skating. Cooley is a better skater. And it`s better for Slafkovsky to work on skating more. He is good skater, and he has power to create speed, but he isn`t close to Cooley. Anyway skating isn`t the first thing, especially when we compare Slaf and Cooley. Slaf is good enough skater. If I was "skating" guy, I would root for Lambert, but Lambert is my most "don`t draft him" guy. After Geekie(because of his skating(kalambur) and his lack of two way game and compet level). I believe both have chances to be a god players, but, like I said vefore, compete level is a big thing to me, but both are not great in this aspect.

 

but I can imagine Fitz could trade pick, trade down or even pick other players. WC can change something.

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4 minutes ago, Guadana said:

Absolutely agree. I still reading them as much as I can find a time for that. Guy like Pronman make a lot of misses, but he makes A LOT of scouting job and he is watching a lot of players. Can`t imagine how much time he spend on it. Guy like Button is  clickbait person sometimes and I can`t believe he is watching all of the players and I hear it, when he talk about them on tv, but, man. He has good assistants who  spend a lot of time. He put Perevalov on 16 place. I understand why NA writers don`t know anything real about him and put him in the second or even in the third round. But Button somehow found him(or his assistants). I did watch enough of MHL and understand why he rank so high(like me, Perevalov is great, I hope he will fall because of new russian factor and devils will draft him in the second round). It`s a sign to read him, because he or his guys can find another gems in the mud. It`s easy to watch USHL, because you can watch 10-12 players from the future draft in one game. But it`s so much harder to watch euro players. Reason why I like Djurgardens.  

And btw I agree with scouts who has questions abouts Slafkovsky skating. Cooley is a better skater. And it`s better for Slafkovsky to work on skating more. He is good skater, and he has power to create speed, but he isn`t close to Cooley. Anyway skating isn`t the first thing, especially when we compare Slaf and Cooley. Slaf is good enough skater. If I was "skating" guy, I would root for Lambert, but Lambert is my most "don`t draft him" guy. After Geekie(because of his skating(kalambur) and his lack of two way game and compet level). I believe both have chances to be a god players, but, like I said vefore, compete level is a big thing to me, but both are not great in this aspect.

I didn't do much research on players beyond the top10 to be honest. I was kind of down on this entire draft class. But since we'd be involved in the top 5 i did a decent amount of research this year.

I really don't think there's a chance we draft Lambert at this point.

As for Cooley vs Slafkovsky. I like Slafkovsky's potential better and he's filling a need more. But i may very well be wrong but my impression is that I believe there's a higher chance that Slafkovsky is not reaching his potential and that Cooley is more likely to, cause he's been scouted a lot more and he's been steadier.

I'm worried Slafkovsky could just be on a good run right now because of his size, and good timing and playing in a bad olympic tournament. So it's more about... do i prefer having a guy i KNOW will probably do well maybe if he's not exactly the type of player we need VS a guy that would fill our need on paper but may not pan out like Zacha didn't.

I think a good example of Cooley vs Slafkovsky could be Kakko vs Zegras. There's no denying that Kakko was projected higher than Zegras because he was bigger, played against men, etc etc etc But Zegras had better stats than Kakko did. And now, so far, in the NHL Zegras has been better. Sometimes it's right there, but scouts get tricked by some factors like size and different leagues and all. And i do believe there's a chance this is happening again here with Slafkovsky. But then guys like Rantanen didn't have great stats either and look at him now. It's so hard to predict

 

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20 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

What's the other option? Cause EVEN if we trade our 2nd overall pick for a goalie. There's literally no guarantee that it's going to work out and that our musical chair won't continue.

who the hell said "just because Schneider didn't work out? in the last few months i probably gave like 40 examples of how goalies are incredibly inconsistent and unpredictable.

Just last summer. The whole hockey world called the Canes insane for trading Nedeljkovic who just had a .932 season for Bernier (who was a 11th overall pick) and a 3rd... and signing Anderson who was coming off a .895 season instead.

Well what do you know. Anderson is not a .922 goalie and Nedeljkovic is .901

We literally see this exact scenario happening every single season.

So THAT's why im very not comfortable trading a 2nd overall for a goalie. Especially one who hasn't proved anything in the NHL yet. Not because Schneider didn't work out.

Many wants Knight because he's a high rated prospect who was taken 13th. Well there's a goalie who was picked 11th overall potentially available on the market this summer. I'd sort of be more comfortable getting Campbell and having just to pay him... than trading a 2nd overall for a skater... for a player who only plays half a season.

I'm obviously not opposed to get Knight, he could very well turn out amazing. But it's a huge gamble and i'm really not sure i wanna gamble with this.

 

 

So I have a theory about the unpredictability of goalies.  I suspect that the bar has been raised about as high as it can go for goalie stats to be considered good.  A consequence of this, imho, is that even the best goalies struggle to maintain stats that we’d consider great today.  Perhaps I’m leaving something out of my thought process but look at the best save percentages over a career and I think the very highest is something like .930 and I think that is Hasek.  OTOH, today a great goalie is a expected to have a save % around .920, which would mean that their margin for error is excruciatingly small. 

EDIT:  so looking it up it appears that the best all time is .922!  This means that the current expectation for a great goalie is to have a save percentage that only a few people have ever attained.  There are only six people that have a 92% or better save percentage.  So is it any wonder that goaltending seems inconsistent when the expectation has been skewed so high that every goalie is expected to be a HoF candidate in order to compete in the modern NHL.  I just don’t think many people can do this and virtually no one can do it consistently.  As much as it pains me to say this, players like Brodeur and Hasek are generational talents, so the likelihood that we will find another is quite small.

I’d hope that the NHL finally realizes this and forces goalies to wear smaller pads.  This would add to scoring but it would also make goaltending a bit more like it was 30+ years ago…… or so I have hoped.  Just my $.02.
 

 

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-goalies-all-time-save-percentage-leaders.html

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9 minutes ago, AEWHistory said:

So I have a theory about the unpredictability of goalies.  I suspect that the bar has been raised about as high as it can go for goalie stats to be considered good.  A consequence of this, imho, is that even the best goalies struggle to maintain stats that we’d consider great today.  Perhaps I’m leaving something out of my thought process but look at the best save percentages over a career and I think the very highest is something like .930 and I think that is Hasek.  OTOH, today a great goalie is a expected to have a save % around .920, which would mean that their margin for error is excruciatingly small. 

EDIT:  so looking it up it appears that the best all time is .922!  This means that the current expectation for a great goalie is to have a save percentage that only a few people have ever attained.  There are only six people that have a 92% or better save percentage.  So is it any wonder that goaltending seems inconsistent when the expectation has been skewed so high that every goalie is expected to be a HoF candidate in order to compete in the modern NHL.  I just don’t think many people can do this and virtually no one can do it consistently.  As much as it pains me to say this, players like Brodeur and Hasek are generational talents, so the likelihood that we will find another is quite small.

I’d hope that the NHL finally realizes this and forces goalies to wear smaller pads.  This would add to scoring but it would also make goaltending a bit more like it was 30+ years ago…… or so I have hoped.  Just my $.02.

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-goalies-all-time-save-percentage-leaders.html

I think goalies are just struggling more cause their game is SO much more "mental" than any other players. they have to prepare differently than everyone else, they have a lot more weight on their shoulders, then there's always the sort of... having to perform or you lose your job and play way less games. It's not like a player not playing too well and demoted on the 3rd line and playing 2-3 minutes less per game, you're still there. So there's that unspoken rivalry with your backup where you both want the team to win and you want the other guys to be good, but literally nobody wants to be a backup. And the game is so fast and everything now. Very hard to be a goalie mentally and it has to be very hard to keep that mindset going from one year to the other. If you're a goalie and let in a bad goal. And that a forward miss on a breakaway. If you lose by a goal. More often than not the staff, fans, etc will put the blame on the goalie and not on the player for missing. 

Another thing is (and by the way i can relate to all of this cause i was a goalie). Is that depending on your goalie coach, they get you to do things that are just not natural to you. I mean you get to a certain point based on skills and sometimes (very much like Marty) you develop things yourself that may not be technically sound, but you're so good and its so intuitive to you that it works and it makes you better. But when a coach tells you to do things a different way cause that's the proper technique or wtv... that can fvck with your head.

A good example was me and volleyball lol i never took volleyball seriously cause i didn't care enough. But i was very good in highschool cause i was just an athlete and very hardcore i'd jump everywhere and do crazy things that were not the way to do it but it worked for me. The volleyball team eventually convinced me to join them and they kept telling me to change my ways of doing things and it 100% made be a worse player. So i assume goaltending can be similar

Edited by SterioDesign
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