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Devils Trade for John Marino, ty Smith to Pitts.


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10 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

He kind of has though. 

16 goals in 54 GP

24 goals in 76 GP

I think it’s pretty safe to pencil him in as at least a 20 goal scorer going forward. Probably more. 

A 20 goal scorer from a top 6 winger is going to be your leading winger on a playoff team?

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2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Unless he’s talking about streakiness, there was a large portion of last season where he disappeared. 

A lot of goal scorers are streaky though. Palms was the best shooter we had since Kovy, and he was the definition of streaky. I’d still call his automatic 25-30 goals a season consistent. 

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Just now, devlman said:

A 20 goal scorer from a top 6 winger is going to be your leading winger on a playoff team?

Well no, hopefully Bratt is. But I could realistically see all 3 of Bratt, Jack, and Sharongovich having 30+ goals. 

I’m not even saying they shouldn’t be looking to add another winger btw. Just that Sharongovich has proved he can finish at a nice rate. 

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2 hours ago, mfitz804 said:

Agree totally, I did complain about the defense all year and their obvious failure to cover guys in the slot. Do that and it doesn’t matter who is in goal, your opponent is going to convert a lot of those chances. 

I actually just saw something yesterday about how Gillies and Daws were supposedly the 2 worst goalies in the league at giving up long goals. Which are obviously just total back breakers. A healthy Mac and Vanecek can at least be better than that. 

Edited by Nicomo
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4 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Well no, hopefully Bratt is. But I could realistically see all 3 of Bratt, Jack, and Sharongovich having 30+ goals. 

I’m not even saying they shouldn’t be looking to add another winger btw. Just that Sharongovich has proved he can finish at a nice rate. 

Well, I don’t consider 20 goals on a playoff team playing next to Jack a nice rate. Hence why we need another winger.

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1 minute ago, devlman said:

Well, I don’t consider 20 goals on a playoff team playing next to Jack a nice rate. Hence why we need another winger.

He had 24 this year. And that was with Jack missing 30 games. 

But it’s fine, I’m clearly higher on him than you are. 

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10 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

A lot of goal scorers are streaky though. Palms was the best shooter we had since Kovy, and he was the definition of streaky. I’d still call his automatic 25-30 goals a season consistent. 

Yeah that whole "streaky" thing is weird at times. Cause i mean... if you score 30 goals in a season... it means that you're on a pace to score every 2-3 games, that's what you bring to the team every season... some games you'll score 2... you'll score a few games in a row too... but it means that overall you'll have a few games without a goal, obviously.

Then the argument is that well he scored 20 in the first half of the season and only 10 in the second half its not good... which i also get what they are saying. But if he went on a long cold streak... and still ended up with 30 goals... it means he was a very very hot streak at some point too. And those goals may means a few extra wins for the team. There's also other players who should contribute

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6 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

He had 24 this year. And that was with Jack missing 30 games. 

But it’s fine, I’m clearly higher on him than you are. 

yeah i believe it's him that wanted Sharangovich out of the top 6 at all cost cause he was not a top 6 winger

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26 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

A lot of goal scorers are streaky though. Palms was the best shooter we had since Kovy, and he was the definition of streaky. I’d still call his automatic 25-30 goals a season consistent. 

I mean season to season it is, if you are in a playoff hunt and your best shooter doesn't score for 20 games down the stretch and you miss the playoffs, one could say his consistency was an issue, no?

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7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I mean season to season it is, if you are in a playoff hunt and your best shooter doesn't score for 20 games down the stretch and you miss the playoffs, one could say his consistency was an issue, no?

Well its arguable that his previous 60 games are the reason they were even in a position to make the playoffs. 

Also arguable that it may be like expecting a 30 goals scorer to be a 40-50 goals scorer then ? 

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2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

I mean season to season it is, if you are in a playoff hunt and your best shooter doesn't score for 20 games down the stretch and you miss the playoffs, one could say his consistency was an issue, no?

20 games would definitely be a problem. I just looked up Sharongovich’s game logs out of curiosity, and he went his first 13 games without a goal, and then another 10 game stretch in January-early February. The first drought could definitely be at least partially due to Jack being out for well over a month after only the 2nd game, but the one after the new year you’d certainly like to see less of. 

Hopefully Brunette can utilize him on the power play better, too. Only 2 PP goals for someone with a shoot like his is pretty ridiculous. But - Recchi. 

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1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Well its arguable that his previous 60 games are the reason they were even in a position to make the playoffs. 

Also arguable that it may be like expecting a 30 goals scorer to be a 40-50 goals scorer then ? 

No, its like arguing a 30 goal scorer's performance isn't "consistent". if a guy scores a goal every 2-3 games, that's consistent. If he scores a bunch in 40 games, and then none in the remaining 42, yes, he helped you win some games, but his performance was not consistent. 

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1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

20 games would definitely be a problem. I just looked up Sharongovich’s game logs out of curiosity, and he went his first 13 games without a goal, and then another 10 game stretch in January-early February. The first drought could definitely be at least partially due to Jack being out for well over a month after only the 2nd game, but the one after the new year you’d certainly like to see less of. 

Hopefully Brunette can utilize him on the power play better, too. Only 2 PP goals for someone with a shoot like his is pretty ridiculous. But - Recchi. 

Right, well 20 was a number I pulled out of my ass as an example. 

There certainly were reasons for it, and his slow start was brutal. He found his way, which was good, but I wouldn't consider his game 1 to game 82 performance as being consistent. 

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57 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Unless he’s talking about streakiness, there was a large portion of last season where he disappeared. 

Unless you're in the Matthews level of hockey player, I'd say probably 90% of the "shoot-first" top-6 wingers in the league are streaky like that. Laine is well known as one of the best shooters in the sport and he'll frequently go 8 games without a point and then have 12 goals in his next 8 games lol. 

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47 minutes ago, devlman said:

Well, I don’t consider 20 goals on a playoff team playing next to Jack a nice rate. Hence why we need another winger.

Sharangovich was primarily on a line with Jack for the 2nd and 3rd quarters of the season -- 38 games. In those 38 games he scored 16 goals and tallied 13 assists. A full season of Sharangovich next to Hughes looks like this:

82GP, 35G, 28A, 63P. 

At 24 years old, I take that every fvcking day of the week. 

--------------------------------

For the record, I'd love another winger too. But I'm not so sure where I'd see him fit. The acquisitions of Palat and Haula make things interesting. Haula pushes Mercer into a guaranteed top-6 role (where he's going to absolutely explode, I think). And Palat is a picture perfect linemate for Nico. 

Edited by MB3
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5 minutes ago, MB3 said:

Unless you're in the Matthews level of hockey player, I'd say probably 90% of the "shoot-first" top-6 wingers in the league are streaky like that. Laine is well known as one of the best shooters in the sport and he'll frequently go 8 games without a point and then have 12 goals in his next 8 games lol. 

I’m not saying it’s an issue or a problem or that he needs to be replaced, I’m only talking about ways a guy can be construed as being inconsistent. 

Being streaky is pretty much the definition of being inconsistent. 

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1 minute ago, mfitz804 said:

I’m not saying it’s an issue or a problem or that he needs to be replaced, I’m only talking about ways a guy can be construed as being inconsistent. 

Being streaky is pretty much the definition of being inconsistent. 

I missed the whole semantics debate on this page, so I wasn't trying to throw my hat in that ring. I was just saying what others have apparently already said -- goalscorers in the NHL are nearly universally streaky by nature, unless you're adding someone who's truly a sensational player (and frankly I don't think we're going to do that.) 

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1 minute ago, MB3 said:

I missed the whole semantics debate on this page, so I wasn't trying to throw my hat in that ring. I was just saying what others have apparently already said -- goalscorers in the NHL are nearly universally streaky by nature, unless you're adding someone who's truly a sensational player (and frankly I don't think we're going to do that.) 

I don't think so either, I think people are engaging in some very wishful thinking. 

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There’s also the fact that if you add guys like Palat who do the dirty work (dig pucks out of corners, battle on boards, screen goalies, etc) the skill guys we already have are going to benefit. That’s more chances for Jack, Bratt,  Nico, Mercer, Sharongovich, and hopefully Holtz. 

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7 hours ago, devlman said:

We still need a winger who can finish with consistency. Sharangovich hasn’t proven to be that guy yet. Holtz could step into that role but asking a rookie to lead the team in goals is a lot. Bratt is more a passer than a shooter. So, which winger is taking up this role? We missed a ton of grade A chances last year (Sharangovich being a prime offender)…can’t keep wasting Jack’s playmaking.

The other question I still have, and it’s a legitimate one, is who is our third goalie for when Blackwood gets hurts and Vanecek decides to retire and try his hand on Broadway a week before preseason? Bernier ain’t healthy. So is it back to square one with Daws? 

Cut your expectations. 24 goals is enough for top 6. Check other teams. Check palat for example. When player score 25 goals, he is scoreless in 57 games. Or even more. If you think 25 goals isn't enough to be top 6 winger, you forget about cap space.

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6 hours ago, Guadana said:

Cut your expectations. 24 goals is enough for top 6. Check other teams. Check palat for example. When player score 25 goals, he is scoreless in 57 games. Or even more. If you think 25 goals isn't enough to be top 6 winger, you forget about cap space.

That’s not quite what I said. I said it’s generally not enough to be your leading goal-scoring winger on a playoff-bound team.

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17 hours ago, devlman said:

That’s not quite what I said. I said it’s generally not enough to be your leading goal-scoring winger on a playoff-bound team.

we have Hischier, Hughes, Palat, Sharangovich, Bratt, Holtz, Dawson. If they will not hit even 30 goals, but every will hit 20 and a half will hit 25, we will be... okay. Yegor has some goals in his hat, Dawson and Alexandr will score more. I believe Hughes can score more if he will stay healthy. Even Nico can produce more, this season his partners will be better players than Zacha and Vesey. Would be great to use him on the line with Bratt full season for example. I`m not so worry about scoring.

This team have no problem with scoring and skill to score. This team has problem with cycling and creating space and opportunities to score. Positioning and working with it, redirects and rebounds. It`s more a coaching and expirience problem. 

Edited by Guadana
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