GDT: Detroit @ Devils 7:00 PM 10/15- the home opener

[devlman]

10 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Anyone wanting something drastic now after 2 games. Is 100% ignoring all i just mentionnd and simply doesn't want to be patient. That's 100% led by emotions.

 

You’re doing it again where you say the same thing but just in a different way - that anyone who doesn’t agree with your rationale is led by emotions or just “ignoring” what you say….how about a third option - people don’t agree with your take. 

[devlman]

2 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

You can keep going on about it only being 2 games all you want, but it’s the way they lost both of them. Both were absolute drubbings, and we weren’t exactly playing the Lightning or the Avalanche. If they were hard fought 4-3 or 3-2 losses I doubt people would be as concerned.

But the compete level if for sh!t, and as CR76 mentioned these 2nd and 3rd period collapses (a running theme the past couple years) point squarely to the coaching. Specifically adjustments, or lack there of. 

And it’s not just two games. This is two seasons worth of bad games. And you said it yourself, it’s not how many losses, but how they have lost over the past two seasons that’s been enough for the fanbase.

[SterioDesign]

2 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

You can keep going on about it only being 2 games all you want, but it’s the way they lost both of them. Both were absolute drubbings, and we weren’t exactly playing the Lightning or the Avalanche. If they were hard fought 4-3 or 3-2 losses I doubt people would be as concerned.

But the compete level if for sh!t, and as CR76 mentioned these 2nd and 3rd period collapses (a running theme the past couple years) point squarely to the coaching. Specifically adjustments, or lack there of. 

Well we sure had our chances in the Detroit game. Have Jack and a few guys actually finishing their opportunities and better goaltending, one less defensive fvck up and we get a win. An ugly one probably but still a win. 

2 minutes ago, devlman said:

You’re doing it again where you say the same thing but just in a different way - that anyone who doesn’t agree with your rationale is led by emotions or just “ignoring” what you say….how about a third option - people don’t agree with your take. 

You're very welcome to make a counter argument about the subject vs just trying to throw me under the bus

[SterioDesign]

11 minutes ago, devlman said:

And it’s not just two games. This is two seasons worth of bad games. And you said it yourself, it’s not how many losses, but how they have lost over the past two seasons that’s been enough for the fanbase.

And this is 1 perfect example of emotion vs rationality.

these past 2 seasons had tons of injuries, coaches that aren't here anymore, inexperience roster, young guys, etc etc this is a new season, that has all the rational reasons for someone to be patient behind it. I said it before. if we enter the 10-15 games with a very bad record. fiiiine. But this is WAY too early

I'm saying "the whole team and coaches need a bit of time to get going and in this specific scenario... it's understandable. YOU say. (while ignoring tons of context) This was our results over 2 season and the that's been enough for the fanbase.

Your argument is literally "fans feelings vs context of what the team is dealing with literally". You're bringing up your emotions in your own statement and nothing about the current state of the team

Edited October 18, 2022 by SterioDesign

[Satans Hockey]

40 minutes ago, devlman said:

And it’s not just two games. This is two seasons worth of bad games. And you said it yourself, it’s not how many losses, but how they have lost over the past two seasons that’s been enough for the fanbase.

Saw a meme somewhere and can't find it now but said it's not game 2 of the 22-23 season but game 84 of the 21-22 season. 

This coach is 0-8 in his last 8 games and 3-14 since April 1st last season. He sucks and needed to be sh!t canned last year. 

Lets be more patient and not complain until we sit through another decade of horrible hockey as if the past decade wasn't enough. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Satans Hockey

[Fansinz88]

4 hours ago, Satans Hockey said:

Saw a meme somewhere and can't find it now but said it's not game 2 of the 22-23 season but game 84 of the 21-22 season. 

This coach is 0-8 in his last 8 games and 3-14 since April 1st last season. He sucks and needed to be sh!t canned last year. 

Lets be more patient and not complain until we sit through another decade of horrible hockey as if the past decade wasn't enough. 

Yeah more patients is exactly what we should have after years of the same. Patients are gone. 2 games or 22 games doesn’t matter. It’s the same nonsense. 

[vadvlfan]

If we keep losing & unable to right the ship, Fitz will go before Ruff imo. BTW, we will have 2/3 game losing streaks in January, February etc. like other teams.  The hysteria (especially on Twitter) is crazy.  Hynes (who was run out of town by same mob) was a sh>tty coach? He's still employed having some success.  Fitz knows if it doesn't "happen" this year, he's gone. Ruff isn't going any where for now. (at least until Thanksgiving)

[mfitz804]

5 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

are you serious? lol go read the GDT.

People calling for a coach to be fired and losing their minds about goaltending 2 games in. Booing and cheering the booing lol 

Thats all emotions leading the way. Not common sense

This is so inaccurate it’s not funny. 

It happened after ONE game. 

[Devil Dan 56]

6 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

And this is 1 perfect example of emotion vs rationality.

these past 2 seasons had tons of injuries, coaches that aren't here anymore, inexperience roster, young guys, etc etc this is a new season, that has all the rational reasons for someone to be patient behind it. I said it before. if we enter the 10-15 games with a very bad record. fiiiine. But this is WAY too early

I'm saying "the whole team and coaches need a bit of time to get going and in this specific scenario... it's understandable. YOU say. (while ignoring tons of context) This was our results over 2 season and the that's been enough for the fanbase.

Your argument is literally "fans feelings vs context of what the team is dealing with literally". You're bringing up your emotions in your own statement and nothing about the current state of the team

For someone who is so interested in context, you seem to be the ignoring the context of why people are upset. If you can’t see how these two losses looked just like last years, and how that is gonna upset people I don’t know what to tell you. 

You can’t tell everyone else they are too emotional and then tell us you hate Subban, Montreal, and Lou for logical reasons. It just doesn’t work that way. It’s a message board for a team that has been terrible for a very long time and people are going to vent when they watch the team play uninspired and sloppy. It’s part of the reason the board exists. 

[mfitz804]

1 hour ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

For someone who is so interested in context, you seem to be the ignoring the context of why people are upset. If you can’t see how these two losses looked just like last years, and how that is gonna upset people I don’t know what to tell you. 

You can’t tell everyone else they are too emotional and then tell us you hate Subban, Montreal, and Lou for logical reasons. It just doesn’t work that way. It’s a message board for a team that has been terrible for a very long time and people are going to vent when they watch the team play uninspired and sloppy. It’s part of the reason the board exists. 

Thank Christ not everything has to be rational, that would be like 80% of my content out the window...

[mfitz804]

8 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

these past 2 seasons had tons of injuries, coaches that aren't here anymore, inexperience roster, young guys, etc etc this is a new season, that has all the rational reasons for someone to be patient behind it. I said it before. if we enter the 10-15 games with a very bad record. fiiiine. But this is WAY too early

Add to that, last season we had a total of 57 games played (starts and relief combined) with an AHL caliber goalie or worse in net.
 

Our record last season is more an indictment of Fitz and his failure to ice an NHL caliber team than it is of Ruff. Michelangelo couldn’t sculpt a statue of David out of a pile of sh!t, but give him some marble and he could carve tiny peckers all day. 

[Satans Hockey]

13 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Add to that, last season we had a total of 57 games played (starts and relief combined) with an AHL caliber goalie or worse in net.
 

Our record last season is more an indictment of Fitz and his failure to ice an NHL caliber team than it is of Ruff. Michelangelo couldn’t sculpt a statue of David out of a pile of sh!t, but give him some marble and he could carve tiny peckers all day. 

So what's the excuse for Ruff in the 20-21 season? Blackwood not being a 100%? There's always excuses with this team and franchise. 

I'm fine with firing both of them at this point, what's the worst that happens? The team sucks and we miss the playoffs like we do on a yearly basis anyway? 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Satans Hockey

[jagknife]

7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Add to that, last season we had a total of 57 games played (starts and relief combined) with an AHL caliber goalie or worse in net.
 

Our record last season is more an indictment of Fitz and his failure to ice an NHL caliber team than it is of Ruff. Michelangelo couldn’t sculpt a statue of David out of a pile of sh!t, but give him some marble and he could carve tiny peckers all day. 

My issue is we went from players insinuating last year they had confusion. This year they’re openly saying the system is confusing.

I’m willing to write off the goaltending, both last year and the two games, no problem. But we all we hesitant at best when Ruff got hired, justifications ranged from he’s not nASS to just cause there are coaches out there doesn’t mean they want to come here. Which all were very accurate. But this we all say it, coaches have a shelf life, PDB couldn’t pull the right strings, Hynes lost the ball of yarn all together by the time his time was up, Ruff I think still has his wife knitting and keeping the ball away from him.

Tonight will be truly telling. We still don’t have the lines that actually thrived during preseason. There’s something to be said when you think you’re outsmarting everyone in the league with a complex system but have exactly zero championship results to show for it. Ruff absolutely thinks he’s outsmarting everyone else, meanwhile he’s putting his own players in a mind pretzel.

This team SHOULD be a bubble team. Playoffs are not a lock by any stretch of the imagination, but the demoralizing start is a huge freaking red flag.

[devlman]

9 hours ago, SterioDesign said:

And this is 1 perfect example of emotion vs rationality.

these past 2 seasons had tons of injuries, coaches that aren't here anymore, inexperience roster, young guys, etc etc this is a new season, that has all the rational reasons for someone to be patient behind it. I said it before. if we enter the 10-15 games with a very bad record. fiiiine. But this is WAY too early

I'm saying "the whole team and coaches need a bit of time to get going and in this specific scenario... it's understandable. YOU say. (while ignoring tons of context) This was our results over 2 season and the that's been enough for the fanbase.

Your argument is literally "fans feelings vs context of what the team is dealing with literally". You're bringing up your emotions in your own statement and nothing about the current state of the team

You are ignoring context and letting your perspective be narrow-focused. Again, it is HOW we are losing games. Sure there are excuses why we SHOULD lose, but HOW we are losing has been pathetic for so long. 

You yourself (I think) last season had a couple posts where you pointed out the terrible defensive system with some constructive gifs. That horrible system is continuing on for a third straight season now. Are you saying that that system is excusable because our starting goalie was injured last season?

Fans are not happy and justifiably so.

Edited October 18, 2022 by devlman

[Crisis]

So was it all 8 goalies that were just terrible at stopping the puck and they tanked the team's chances of winning games?

Were the goalies awful because Ruff's system hangs them out to dry and he can't come up with an effective strategy to score goals AND protect the net?

Or are the advanced stats are onto something in showing that Ruff's system is generating opportunities but the players just suck and are at fault for not being able to execute, allowing the goalies to get shelled on a nightly basis?

Seems like literally no one fvcking knows.

[mfitz804]

8 minutes ago, Crisis said:

So was it all 8 goalies that were just terrible at stopping the puck and they tanked the team's chances of winning games?

Were the goalies awful because Ruff's system hangs them out to dry and he can't come up with an effective strategy to score goals AND protect the net?

Or are the advanced stats are onto something in showing that Ruff's system is generating opportunities but the players just suck and are at fault for not being able to execute, allowing the goalies to get shelled on a nightly basis?

Seems like literally no one fvcking knows.

 

[SterioDesign]

4 hours ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

For someone who is so interested in context, you seem to be the ignoring the context of why people are upset. If you can’t see how these two losses looked just like last years, and how that is gonna upset people I don’t know what to tell you. 

You can’t tell everyone else they are too emotional and then tell us you hate Subban, Montreal, and Lou for logical reasons. It just doesn’t work that way. It’s a message board for a team that has been terrible for a very long time and people are going to vent when they watch the team play uninspired and sloppy. It’s part of the reason the board exists. 

I absolutely dont ignore that context. I brought it up how some fans are frustrated by stuff from past season. But that changes were made and now its a new season. Where a lot of new moving parts has to come together and that it might take a little while to really get going. I mentioned this before and it's pretty fair in my opinion.

Also well yeah my Subban hate is "emotional" cause he made a lot of things that rubbed me (and a lot of people) the wrong way. I can admit that. Lou is it logical. I do not support his ways of doing things, it's actually fully rationally driven and systematic in that case. MTL is also emotional since that fanbase and the media are insanely annoying. See? I can actually admit when my stances are based on emotions. What's wrong with that?

And you can vent all you want. This is indeed a message board. But the real problem here is people venting and then getting pissed off if someone challenges what they are saying. Guess what lol That's also part of a message board. It's not a one way street. You can have opinions, go nuts. But other people can comment on those opinions. Which is all im doing.

[SterioDesign]

1 hour ago, devlman said:

You are ignoring context and letting your perspective be narrow-focused. Again, it is HOW we are losing games. Sure there are excuses why we SHOULD lose, but HOW we are losing has been pathetic for so long. 

You yourself (I think) last season had a couple posts where you pointed out the terrible defensive system with some constructive gifs. That horrible system is continuing on for a third straight season now. Are you saying that that system is excusable because our starting goalie was injured last season?

Fans are not happy and justifiably so.

Yes. And i said many times in the last few days that IF this continues beyond like 10 games or wtv. Then i'd start getting worried.

I mean, is it truly this hard to at the very least, give the benefit of the doubt 2 games in considering we are dealing with a new system, defensive coach, new powerplay, few new guys in the lineup, new goalie, etc etc Even teams with "established" teams and everything can take awhile to get going. We still have a young group too.

is this truly unfair to say IF this keeps going on for an extended period that then we can conclude that nothing has change and that Lindy is a major problem or wtv. But in the meantime, considering everything i just mentioned, that it would be fair to be a bit more patient than 1-2 games in?

I honestly don't see how that's not fair. And all i see is some fans refusing to acknowledge that and are hellbent on having these 2 games an extension of the last season. Like there wasn't plenty of context last year too AND as if no changes were made to correct those problems. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by SterioDesign

[devlman]

38 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Yes. And i said many times in the last few days that IF this continues beyond like 10 games or wtv. Then i'd start getting worried.

I mean, is it truly this hard to at the very least, give the benefit of the doubt 2 games in considering we are dealing with a new system, defensive coach, new powerplay, few new guys in the lineup, new goalie, etc etc Even teams with "established" teams and everything can take awhile to get going. We still have a young group too.

is this truly unfair to say IF this keeps going on for an extended period that then we can conclude that nothing has change and that Lindy is a major problem or wtv. But in the meantime, considering everything i just mentioned, that it would be fair to be a bit more patient than 1-2 games in?

I honestly don't see how that's not fair. And all i see is some fans refusing to acknowledge that and are hellbent on having these 2 games an extension of the last season. Like there wasn't plenty of context last year too AND as if no changes were made to correct those problems. 

It’s the same crappy defensive system 5v5 dude. Players were confused last year and are just as confused this year.

Btw I’m all for giving Lindy more than two games in a new year to turn it around. But he’s got to show the fans some measurable progress. Two horrible 5-2 losses to ‘bottom’ teams is only going to fuel the fire.

I hope they shut out Anaheim tonight and kick on with the new season but damn is it asking too much to see a good performance tonight? Or do I have to wait til game 11 to realistically want this?

Edited October 18, 2022 by devlman

[SterioDesign]

15 minutes ago, devlman said:

It’s the same crappy defensive system 5v5 dude. Players were confused last year and are just as confused this year.

Btw I’m all for giving Lindy more than two games in a new year to turn it around. But he’s got to show the fans some measurable progress. Two horrible 5-2 losses to ‘bottom’ teams is only going to fuel the fire.

I hope they shut out Anaheim tonight and kick on with the new season but damn is it asking too much to see a good performance tonight?

Well it has to be a different system i'd think considering what Nico said.

If its the same system i can't imagine that the majority of the team who played it last year would still be confused. It's either he was referring to the new guys not having wrapped their heads around it yet or that it's a new system. And of course there's the possibility that it's an insanely bad system that simply cannot work. But i can't imagine that with such a group of coaching and everything they have that they'd all agree on a system that they dont agree with. Not sure how much Lindy has the ultimate say considering he couldnt even picked his own assistant coaches until this season. 

As for a good performance. As fans we tend to see isolated bad plays and see it as it's the whole game. The Detroit game. We outshot them. Many guys had very good looks and chances. We didn't look like the Avs out there. But most goals against were either one bad decision from a particular player that led to it.

Finally. It's worth wondering if our players are REALLY making this many mistakes because they are straight up dumb or if the system is always something that goes completely against what they'd usually do naturally. But that i obviously have no idea

I feel that for a little while until everyone gel with the system. We'd need Jack and our top guys to be heroes and put a few pucks in the net to give us a bit of flexibility for fvckups that will innevitably happen in our situation

Edited October 18, 2022 by SterioDesign

[Devil Dan 56]

1 hour ago, SterioDesign said:

I absolutely dont ignore that context. I brought it up how some fans are frustrated by stuff from past season. But that changes were made and now its a new season. Where a lot of new moving parts has to come together and that it might take a little while to really get going. I mentioned this before and it's pretty fair in my opinion.

Also well yeah my Subban hate is "emotional" cause he made a lot of things that rubbed me (and a lot of people) the wrong way. I can admit that. Lou is it logical. I do not support his ways of doing things, it's actually fully rationally driven and systematic in that case. MTL is also emotional since that fanbase and the media are insanely annoying. See? I can actually admit when my stances are based on emotions. What's wrong with that?

And you can vent all you want. This is indeed a message board. But the real problem here is people venting and then getting pissed off if someone challenges what they are saying. Guess what lol That's also part of a message board. It's not a one way street. You can have opinions, go nuts. But other people can comment on those opinions. Which is all im doing.

People are frustrated because we are seeing the same stuff from last season this season. Last season there were a thousand excuses. Everyone was injured, we needed better goaltending, yada yada. No one was injured Saturday. We had a brand new goalie. And a turnover of a about 1/4 of the roster. And the results are the same. Listless, confused play. 

I don’t think one person on this board minds seeing the Devils lose a close game to a team that is more talented. That isn’t what we are seeing though. We are seeing a Devils team that isn’t ready for games and game situations and that is 100% on the coaching. There’s been a new excuse every game for 10 years. Nobody wants to hear excuses anymore.

They have Anaheim tonight, coming off a game yesterday, outscored 13-5 the last 2 games. There is no reason the Devils shouldn’t at least be competitive in this game. If they lose, they lose, that’s fine, but they need to look like they are at least aware there’s a game happening. 

[SterioDesign]

9 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

People are frustrated because we are seeing the same stuff from last season this season. Last season there were a thousand excuses. Everyone was injured, we needed better goaltending, yada yada. No one was injured Saturday. We had a brand new goalie. And a turnover of a about 1/4 of the roster. And the results are the same. Listless, confused play. 

I don’t think one person on this board minds seeing the Devils lose a close game to a team that is more talented. That isn’t what we are seeing though. We are seeing a Devils team that isn’t ready for games and game situations and that is 100% on the coaching. There’s been a new excuse every game for 10 years. Nobody wants to hear excuses anymore.

They have Anaheim tonight, coming off a game yesterday, outscored 13-5 the last 2 games. There is no reason the Devils shouldn’t at least be competitive in this game. If they lose, they lose, that’s fine, but they need to look like they are at least aware there’s a game happening. 

Did you read any of my posts where i brought up (probably like.... 4-5 times just in the last 2 days) where the team.... this year.... is still young... still has new coaches, new system, new players, rookies, a new goalie coming in, a goalie who hasnt played regularly for over a year, etc etc

And that THIS is at the very least a reason to give them the benefit of the doubt as to why they may not be hitting the ground running. It's really but really not out of the ordinary that they'd have a bit of confusion before they can all get on the same page. We currently see teams with the same coaches, same core, vets, etc currently struggling. It's historically normal for many teams to have slow starts. Let's wait a bit.

Can you acknowledge that please, you don't have to say that you believe it but can you admit that it's a rational possibility? at the very very least.

That's basically one of the problem from a fan perpsective right now. They DON'T want to hear excuses and won't accept them. Eventhough there's legit reason to at least consider them. That's where the disconnect is. And again, this is driven in emotions

Edited October 18, 2022 by SterioDesign

[Devil Dan 56]

1 minute ago, SterioDesign said:

Did you read any of my posts where i brought up (probably like.... 4-5 times just in the last 2 days) where the team.... this year.... is still young... still has new coaches, new system, new players, rookies, a new goalie coming in, a goalie who hasnt played regularly for over a year, etc etc

And that THIS is at the very least a reason to give them the benefit of the doubt as to why they may not be hitting the ground running. It's really but really not out of the ordinary that they'd have a bit of confusion before they can all get on the same page. 

Can you acknowledge that please, you don't have to say that you believe it but that it's a rational possibility? 

Of course it’s a rational possibility.

But you do realize you put 7 excuses in your first paragraph? 

Philly and Detroit are both young teams as well. Philly has a new coach, new system, and their players seemed to understand that system on opening night. Everyone has new players, new goalies, players coming off injury. That’s why we have preseason. 

Is it really too much to ask that the team just looks like they have a clue? To understand that BOTH defensemen can’t chase a player into the corner or behind the net? That if you’re covering someone, tie up their stick so they can’t just tap in a rebound?

We aren’t asking for the moon and stars here. We just want basic competence at this point. 

[SterioDesign]

1 minute ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Of course it’s a rational possibility.

But you do realize you put 7 excuses in your first paragraph? 

Philly and Detroit are both young teams as well. Philly has a new coach, new system, and their players seemed to understand that system on opening night. Everyone has new players, new goalies, players coming off injury. That’s why we have preseason. 

Is it really too much to ask that the team just looks like they have a clue? To understand that BOTH defensemen can’t chase a player into the corner or behind the net? That if you’re covering someone, tie up their stick so they can’t just tap in a rebound?

We aren’t asking for the moon and stars here. We just want basic competence at this point. 

So what's your theory then? Straight up. What do you think is happening.

[jagknife]

47 minutes ago, SterioDesign said:

Well it has to be a different system i'd think considering what Nico said.

If its the same system i can't imagine that the majority of the team who played it last year would still be confused. It's either he was referring to the new guys not having wrapped their heads around it yet or that it's a new system. And of course there's the possibility that it's an insanely bad system that simply cannot work. But i can't imagine that with such a group of coaching and everything they have that they'd all agree on a system that they dont agree with. Not sure how much Lindy has the ultimate say considering he couldnt even picked his own assistant coaches until this season. 

As for a good performance. As fans we tend to see isolated bad plays and see it as it's the whole game. The Detroit game. We outshot them. Many guys had very good looks and chances. We didn't look like the Avs out there. But most goals against were either one bad decision from a particular player that led to it.

Finally. It's worth wondering if our players are REALLY making this many mistakes because they are straight up dumb or if the system is always something that goes completely against what they'd usually do naturally. But that i obviously have no idea

I feel that for a little while until everyone gel with the system. We'd need Jack and our top guys to be heroes and put a few pucks in the net to give us a bit of flexibility for fvckups that will innevitably happen in our situation

The first bolded, I think that truly is the problem, its Ruff's system and it must be played his way. I believe he is making his other coaches conform to his system. I took more time that I want to admit today to watch some of the Panther's highlights from last year, looking at their power play, they rarely used the slingshot breakout, yet it was a staple for us last year and it has continued into this season. Then the defense, its a... floating box... mess? idk what to call it, but we ALL blamed nASS for the approach and technique, yet there it is again this year, where they have some good spots, but are exploitable. Lindy might not have been given the reins to recruit whom he wanted to work with him, but it's clear to me when it comes to the bench/strategy, he has a lot more say than he did with personnel.

I loathe his line shuffling. Its too inconsistent, he refuses to allow guys to get anything resembling chemistry together. If players need time to adapt to a system, then they also need time to adapt to one another and the way each other play. We've all played some kind of sport on various levels, we know how important it is to know where your teammates are going to be at a given time, now exacerbate that to a professional level. If you can't understand the system, and you're new to a team that wont let you build any foundation with your new teammates, you're being doomed to fail. Well over simplifying my point here, but for the love of freaking god would it kill the old bastard to put just the top line together for more than a single period?

Hughes and Co obviously need to freaking finish their chances already, that part cannot be understated. I think I saw both Mercer and Hughes combined for 15 high danger chances with obviously zero finishes, dont know if it was the last game or both games combined, but them not finishing with opponents doing the exact opposite when facing them is downright demoralizing.