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How "All In" are you willing to go for 2022-23?


Colorado Rockies 1976
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Just now, MadDog2020 said:

100%. We aren’t at the ‘all-in for a rental’ stage yet; that’s probably a year away still. 

I agree. Especially not where we are already first or second in the league in Goals For,  and and close to the bottom for Goals Against. I can't say that if that continues, we need to trade away prospects for more firepower. 

Just now, Puckbuster said:

Ok, well I’ve watched play and I don’t see speed an issue.  He’s actually not even a defensive liability.  If anything he needs to shoot more.

If that's how you feel, I am not sure you have watched too closely. 

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Just now, mfitz804 said:

I agree. Especially not where we are already first or second in the league in Goals For,  and and close to the bottom for Goals Against. I can't say that if that continues, we need to trade away prospects for more firepower. 

If that's how you feel, I am not sure you have watched too closely. 

In what way is speed an issue?  I see him involved in plays, he creates space for himself at the right circle, and always gets back on D.  That is what I see.  What do you see?

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5 minutes ago, Puckbuster said:

In what way is speed an issue?  I see him involved in plays, he creates space for himself at the right circle, and always gets back on D.  That is what I see.  What do you see?

In that he cannot keep up with the play or contribute to the offense in any manner. It's literally why he was sent down. 

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1 minute ago, Puckbuster said:

In what way is speed an issue?  I see him involved in plays, he creates space for himself at the right circle, and always gets back on D.  That is what I see.  What do you see?

Nothing that you're seeing. 

And like others said, if not for Bastian's injury, he is NOT back up here.

It is an opportunity for him to show something, which he hasn't done in his very brief time up here so far.  We'll see if he can take advantage, but he doesn't appear to have developed enough tools yet.

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2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

In that he cannot keep up with the play or contribute to the offense in any manner. It's literally why he was sent down. 

He's also been a defensive liability. One of the goals scored in his last game before the recent call up, I think Red Wings, was solely on him losing his man in his own zone. It's happened before without a goal occurring too.

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1 minute ago, MB3 said:

in every way he could possibly mean. speed is a glaringly obvious issue. 

And if me and this character are agreeing on something, it has to be right, I would think, since we are both the smartest person we know. 

1 minute ago, NJDevils1214 said:

He's also been a defensive liability. One of the goals scored in his last game before the recent call up, I think Red Wings, was solely on him losing his man in his own zone. It's happened before without a goal occurring too.

I had that in my head under "keeping up with the play", but you are correct. 

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13 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

With a $2.8m cap hit, I am not sure trading Blackwood does much toward adding Tarasenko ($7.5m) or Meier ($6m). In addition, wouldn't slotting in another goalie (Daws) also count against the cap, meaning $850k of that $2.8m would be otherwise spoken for? Or is that something we don't worry about because he only gets called up if one of the other two is hurt, in which case they get moved to LTIR? 

He's back in the NHL because Bastian got injured. Otherwise he wouldn't be. Anyone who has watched him play should recognize that his speed is an issue. 

Disclaimer that I have only the faintest idea of how this works, but from my understanding an acquired player counts a pro-rated amount against the cap. So, with a quick example, if Blackwood is traded tomorrow, that would save roughly $2.1m on the cap. If the Devils acquired a player with only 20% of the season remaining, his cap hit would only be 20% of what it was coming into the season. Between that and possibly packaging Johnsson in any rental-related trade (and teams being able to absorb up to 50% of their salary, I'm relatively certain the Devils can make it work. 

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1 minute ago, MB3 said:

Disclaimer that I have only the faintest idea of how this works, but from my understanding an acquired player counts a pro-rated amount against the cap. So, with a quick example, if Blackwood is traded tomorrow, that would save roughly $2.1m on the cap. If the Devils acquired a player with only 20% of the season remaining, his cap hit would only be 20% of what it was coming into the season. Between that and possibly packaging Johnsson in any rental-related trade (and teams being able to absorb up to 50% of their salary, I'm relatively certain the Devils can make it work. 

That's not my understanding, I thought it was a hard cap until the playoffs. 

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18 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

100%. We aren’t at the ‘all-in for a rental’ stage yet; that’s probably a year away still. 

I'll play devils advocate for a second and ask "why"? This is one of the best teams in the National Hockey League, why are they a year away? What if Dougie starts to show his age and regress? What if we hit an injury bug next year? What if we let Graves and Sevo walk but the kids aren't quite ready to fill his shoes? What if depth scoring becomes a huge issue because too many of our bottom-6 wingers are on expiring deals?

I know it's so easy to say "young team on the cusp!!!" and I believe that too, but there's also a chance that this is the best Devils hockey team we've had in 15 years, and there's also a chance that this might be the best hockey team we'll have. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, if the Devils are still dad-d!cking the league in a few months I hope they make a move or two.

I'm a huge Yankees fan. In 2017, the Yankees got off to an electric start even though they had tempered expectations. It was a team full of kids, and Yankees fans were blessed that they simply "arrived early". Going into the deadline with the Yankees floundering a little bit, the team made a "tier 2" trade, but balked at the chance to acquire Justin Verlander. Fans all agreed, "good call by the Yankees!" "This team is too young, they're going to get even better, we're still a year away from being dominant." What happens? Verlander goes 2-0 and is the sole reason they lost in 7 games in the ALCS. The Yankees "young exciting core" never got closer than they did in 2017. 

If there's an opportunity to go for it, I really hope the Devils do. Be smart, don't trade multiple first round picks for 4 weeks of Patrick Kane, but don't clutch the prospects and clutch the picks and watch rivals load their teams up in preparation of facing you. 

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7 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

That's not my understanding, I thought it was a hard cap until the playoffs. 

According to capfriendly: 

At the deadline, there are usually about 41 days left out of a 186 day season.  That means that at the deadline, a player's cap hit will only count 41/186 of their annual cap hit on the new team.  Therefore, a team's projected cap space for the year can fit 186/41 (4.53) Annual Cap Hit at the deadline. For example, if a team has $1M projected cap space for the year and that accrues, at the deadline they can add $1M * (186/41) = $4.54M in Annual Cap Hit.

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Well before making any moves i'd look at what our roster could be next season, who's a lock at what position and who's in a flexible spot and who might come up. Then i see where the holes are.

Our only real need would be for sure a LEGIT top 6 LW along Palat. Like Timo Meier. And we have plenty of assets to get him either by trade or maybe sign him. But if we can make it work under the cap for the next few years... we'll have to see.

Hischier and Hughes are obviously locked in the top 6. Bratt (if we do re-sign him and not forced to trade him) and Mercer should also be locks for top 6 RW spots. 

Our bottom 6 is kind of all over the place but pretty flexible. Wood/Zetterlund/Sharangovich in my opinion are locks. Boqvist McLeod and Bastian too but i wouldnt mind seeing them go either if we can upgrade.

I'd let Tatar and Haula walk. Unless they are willing to take a major discount to stay maybe?

??? - Hischier - Bratt

Palat - Hughes - Mercer

Wood - Zetterlund - Sharangovich

Boqvist - McLeod - Bastian

Holtz - 

 

Our Dcorp well... it's just unbelievable. If all our prospects develop into NHL players we're gonna have some serious good problems on our hands.

I'm just not sure what we can do with Severson at this point. I'd like to keep Graves and get rid of Smith.

Siegenthaler - Hamilton

Hughes - Marino

Graves - Nemec

Smith - Severson

Muks - Bahl - Okhotiuk - Walsh

 

Vanecek

Blackwood

Schmid

Daws

Overall considering we have SO many young guys that should be locks on the team for years.... and that we're overflowing with young D. Which is always something teams are looking for. We may be able to pry a really good top LW with a package.

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3 minutes ago, MB3 said:

According to capfriendly: 

At the deadline, there are usually about 41 days left out of a 186 day season.  That means that at the deadline, a player's cap hit will only count 41/186 of their annual cap hit on the new team.  Therefore, a team's projected cap space for the year can fit 186/41 (4.53) Annual Cap Hit at the deadline. For example, if a team has $1M projected cap space for the year and that accrues, at the deadline they can add $1M * (186/41) = $4.54M in Annual Cap Hit.

That makes no sense to me. Technically, you could then be way over the annual cap. But like I said, I have no clue about this. 

Even still, I don't understand how it would work for the departing player. Do you still get the full hit? Do you save the same 22%? It seems weird that a guy can play 78% of the season without at least 78% of his cap hit counting, if you can replace him with someone at 22% of their cap hit. 

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10 minutes ago, MB3 said:

I'll play devils advocate for a second and ask "why"? This is one of the best teams in the National Hockey League, why are they a year away? What if Dougie starts to show his age and regress? What if we hit an injury bug next year? What if we let Graves and Sevo walk but the kids aren't quite ready to fill his shoes? What if depth scoring becomes a huge issue because too many of our bottom-6 wingers are on expiring deals?

I know it's so easy to say "young team on the cusp!!!" and I believe that too, but there's also a chance that this is the best Devils hockey team we've had in 15 years, and there's also a chance that this might be the best hockey team we'll have. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, if the Devils are still dad-d!cking the league in a few months I hope they make a move or two.

I'm a huge Yankees fan. In 2017, the Yankees got off to an electric start even though they had tempered expectations. It was a team full of kids, and Yankees fans were blessed that they simply "arrived early". Going into the deadline with the Yankees floundering a little bit, the team made a "tier 2" trade, but balked at the chance to acquire Justin Verlander. Fans all agreed, "good call by the Yankees!" "This team is too young, they're going to get even better, we're still a year away from being dominant." What happens? Verlander goes 2-0 and is the sole reason they lost in 7 games in the ALCS. The Yankees "young exciting core" never got closer than they did in 2017. 

If there's an opportunity to go for it, I really hope the Devils do. Be smart, don't trade multiple first round picks for 4 weeks of Patrick Kane, but don't clutch the prospects and clutch the picks and watch rivals load their teams up in preparation of facing you. 

I guess I just need to see more; it’s still too early for me to say ‘YES- ALL IN’ just yet. Now, if we get to February/March and we are still dominating like you said-  I will change my tune. But I still need to see a couple more months of sustained consistency before I’m ready for an all-in move. 

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1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

I guess I just need to see more; it’s still too early for me to say ‘YES- ALL IN’ just yet. Now, if we get to February/March and we are still dominating like you said-  I will change my tune. But I still need to see a couple more months of sustained consistency before I’m ready for an all-in move. 

Sounds like someone who is traumatized and is waiting for the other shoe to drop. There are a lot of us lol. 

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This team would be foolish to chase a top-6 F unless they could get one for basically nothing - it’s a luxury that (barring injury) they just don’t need. 
 

If I were Fitz I’d be doing two things:

 

1.  Keeping Severson as an own-rental (and eating the draft pick I’d get for moving him). 
 

2. Adding some size and grit - a sandpaper and skill guy like Maroon (not him specifically, as TB ain’t trading him) or (gulp) Anderson. 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Bolded seems like very wishful thinking.  Not saying it absolutely cannot happen but he's shown absolutely nothing to suggest it's a foregone conclusion.  Depending on what the return is, I would absolutely package him to get an established producer.

You keep harping on this but yet it’s based on an extremely small sample size. We get it - you don’t like the guy but he’s played mostly 4th line minutes and one game after sitting for a month.

There’s no indication that he won’t be a great player one day. His development is coming along fine. His skating is fine. Him not cracking the lineup on a team that is white hot is not an indictment of him. Giving up on him and writing him off now would be extremely foolish.

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1 hour ago, Jerzey said:

Gotta be honest I’m not as high on Holtz as I was in the beginning of the year. I thought he looked good in the first couple of games but against the Rags he looked lost. We can excuse that to lack of playtime lately though.

Do you guys hear yourselves? You’re not high on him because the 10 min of 4th line ice time he played after not playing for a month wasn’t good? He looked just fine to me. He didn’t make costly mistakes, he was sound defensively. That is what I’m sure the coaching staff asked him to focus on. What could you have possibly been expecting…

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