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Trade Deadline Targets: Discuss


mikepeluso8

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8 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

If the Sharks had anyone worth a sh!t in the AHL, they would be on the NHL roster already given how bad that team is.   As you said, I’m sure they can send a few warm AHL bodies without damaging their farm to make the contracts work.   

Some of their more legit prospects are already up with the big club:

San Jose Barracuda 2022-23 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

But yeah, just nab a couple of AHLers on expiring deals who clearly won't be back with the Devils the following year, and call it a day.  

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To me, Toronto doesn’t need another star, they need actual depth.   Every year they kill Marner, Mathew’s and Co for failing to get to the second round but it never seems to dawn on them that Chicago and Tampa’s stars weren’t always the ones that did everything in the playoffs .  Hell, Nick Paul scored both goals in last years Game 7 2-1 victory for the Lightning against the Leafs

 

As for the second article, I’ve skimmed it twice and I don’t see that it actually matches the headline.   How were they ever close to pulling the trigger in the last 48 hours if an extension remains a sticking point and they haven’t been able to talk to the agent?   

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39 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

To me, Toronto doesn’t need another star, they need actual depth.   Every year they kill Marner, Mathew’s and Co for failing to get to the second round but it never seems to dawn on them that Chicago and Tampa’s stars weren’t always the ones that did everything in the playoffs .  Hell, Nick Paul scored both goals in last years Game 7 2-1 victory for the Lightning against the Leafs

 

As for the second article, I’ve skimmed it twice and I don’t see that it actually matches the headline.   How were they ever close to pulling the trigger in the last 48 hours if an extension remains a sticking point and they haven’t been able to talk to the agent?   

And we'll obviously be happy as hell when the Devils reach the playoffs this season (yep, I said when, impossible to think that they could possibly fall out of it unless 3-5 key players get hurt), but the bolded is what will have to addressed on the Devils for sure, in due time.  That's where Utica needs to churn out 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pair defenseman (and a legit goalie prospect would be nice)...nice to be able to replace those guys from within, so that you don't have to overpay them once they become UFAs (or having to overpay for someone else's UFA).   

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My suspicion with this Meier situation is that the Devils have a competitive offer on the table that is contingent on Meier signing long term. It has got to be something around Devils 1st round pick + Holtz + one other piece. Not sure what that other piece is, but if I had to guess, I would say it is not any of Casey, Mukhamadullin, or Gritsyuk. Casey is having too good of a season to move on from. Mukhamadullin seems to be too well liked by Fitz, and is also committed to coming over to play for the Devils organization, but coming over could be less of a sure bet if he's entering a new organization. Gritsyuk's value and timing of coming to NA is too unclear for him to be included IMO. No one is really suggesting this, but what about one of the goalie prospects going to SJ? They could certainly use one, and it doesn't seem like both Daws and Schmid will have a real shot at being with the big club any time soon.

Grier is likely still looking for something better, but not finding anything yet. Devils are one of the few (or only?) teams that (1) have the cap space to sign Meier long term and (2) are a destination that Meier is interested in signing long term. Supposedly he's friends with a few Devils players, but I'm otherwise basing the idea that he would sign here long term on nothing else. There may be another team or two looking to sign Meier long term that are in the playoffs picture, but I can't imagine there are too many. Then there are other teams like Toronto who could afford him maybe only as a rental only, but his value in that type of trade would be significantly lower.

The issue is the Devils' window is just opening this season, so if Grier lets Fitzgerald talk to Meier's agent, and the agent says Meier wants to play in NJ (not totally unlikely), maybe Fitz sacrifices going all in this season so he can keep Holtz and his 1st round pick, just so he can either sign Meier as a free agent or trade for his rights at a significantly lower price during the offseason. But this could also be problematic for Grier, if it doesn't drive up the trade offers from other teams until we are days away from the deadline, and there may not be time to work out a long term agreement, effectively turning Meier into a rental.

All this to say that I don't think we are going to hear much until the end of the month. In any case, if the plan is to get Meier here before the deadline, Fitzgerald really needs to try to re-sign Bratt before Meier is officially a Devil. We know Bratt will wait until Meier is signed long term before negotiating his contract.

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Good post Nessus, but I think there is one thing that could happen that could force SJ a little bit, but I don't know how likely it is to occur.

I think Meier has some control here if he were to ask to sit out and or ask to be traded as he has been a very good and loyal player for them.  He just needs to let them know this is affecting him and if they are going to trade him he would prefer they do so now and get it all over with as that could lead them to making Claude available to talk to teams now, instead of waiting for the last 10 days before the deadline.

I just don't see SJ waiting until the offseason unless the packages are so lowballed in their eyes that it makes sense to hold him until the summer.

If it's a team who can not sign him long term, you are just not getting the same offer than a team who  can and wants to do so.

Now that trading team could re-trade him after the playoffs, but again from SJ point of view, I just don't see how that package is the same as a team who can sign him to an extension, unless those teams including NJ are making bad offers.

I think looking at Carolina's history they don't seem to lock guys down to long term deals that are not team friendly, I think that's why it seems they are willing to make the trade without the extension as they are okay with using him for a Cup run and then trading him before or during the draft.

I have thought for a bit that Buffalo is a team who is right there with NJ in terms of Meier fitting in long term and they have the assets to make the deal. The one big difference is they are a year behind the Devils, so are they going to make the same effort to get this done? I think if NJ does make this the main priority for them they are ahead of Buffalo, but Meier could also help here if he lets SJ know he prefers NJ over them, if he does of course.

I have seen the Flyers mentioned this week and that makes no sense to me with their team already in a bad space Cap wise, but they are a badly run team so anything is possible there. 

It seems Dallas a team I feared has Cap issues now or soon that will prevent them from keeping Meier long term, this is another good thing for those of us who want the Swiss here.

Vegas has also been mentioned but again while they have Cap space now because of injuries, long term I don't see it either in the Cap issues or in the assets to make the best offer.

In saying all this, I think this is still down to NJ, Carolina, and Buffalo to me, but Meier could make things move along faster if he asks them to move him now instead of waiting another week or so.

It is possible I am missing a team out there that can do this trade, but I can't think of anyone else in the position to do so.

I think Fitz needs to make a very fair offer as he has probably done already and make it known he will possibly up it if another team has a better offer, again I think he has done this as well with SJ, so now we continue to wait for either Meier himself to put the pressure on or SJ deciding to keep on playing prevent defense or get the ball moving.

Oh one more thing, I think there is zero chance that Bratt's agent who has shown in the last 2 years to be the silent type, that he is going to sign a deal now unless the Devils give him a can't refuse offer, and that is not going to happen either.

I think Bratt will either be signed after Meier is traded and signs here, or another player is traded here  or the Devils decide to leave it until the summer and then there is as good of a chance as a trade as there is a signing dependent on what Bratt tells his agent.

Edited by Patrick Sundstrom Ghost
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Let's keep in mind Bratt is still RFA. Not necessarily in drivers seat.  Again I think Bratt shouldn't earn a nickel more than Jack or Nico. Tatar has been very good this year, wonder if Fitz has any intention of signing him? 

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12 minutes ago, vadvlfan said:

Let's keep in mind Bratt is still RFA. Not necessarily in drivers seat.  Again I think Bratt shouldn't earn a nickel more than Jack or Nico. Tatar has been very good this year, wonder if Fitz has any intention of signing him? 

I'd say Tatar's been better than expected (especially compared to last season), but I wouldn't say very good.  And should the Devils re-sign Bratt and somehow land Meier and sign him too, Tatar becomes one of those guys that you can't really re-sign even if you wanted to.  Some players (Tatar, Wood, Seves, etc) figure to become cap casualties after this season.  Once you start to accumulate players worth paying, gotta start finding younger, cost-effective guys...or hit on trades and/or underrated UFAs who outperform their cap hits (as Fitz has done with Siegs, Marino, and VV).  

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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1 hour ago, vadvlfan said:

Let's keep in mind Bratt is still RFA. Not necessarily in drivers seat.  Again I think Bratt shouldn't earn a nickel more than Jack or Nico. Tatar has been very good this year, wonder if Fitz has any intention of signing him? 

Absolutely no way Bratt signs for less than Nico. And probably not for less than Jack either. When someone like Bo Horvat gets $8.5 per why in the world should the younger, better, Jesper Bratt take less? I just don’t get this mentality at all. Jack and Nico were far less proven players when they took their deals. Bratt is a highly skilled 24 year old winger who’s now been a PPG player for 2 straight years. He’s getting paid. 

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39 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Absolutely no way Bratt signs for less than Nico. And probably not for less than Jack either. When someone like Bo Horvat gets $8.5 per why in the world should the younger, better, Jesper Bratt take less? I just don’t get this mentality at all. Jack and Nico were far less proven players when they took their deals. Bratt is a highly skilled 24 year old winger who’s now been a PPG player for 2 straight years. He’s getting paid. 

Re:  the bolded, the narrative is becoming that Jack and Nico were these swell unselfish guys who took less money for the good of the team, so others should follow suit.  Of course that's not really accurate...as has been discussed, the Devils rolled the dice that both players could potentially outperform the value of their contracts, while the players were able to get immediate long-term security and nice AAV up front for near-max (in Nico's case) or absolute max (in Jack's case) term.  It's clearly worked out for the Devils, but not like Jack and Nico are poverty-stricken either (even if both are underpaid for what they currently bring).  Feels like everyone kinda won here, really.  But yeah neither had reached their peaks yet and there was no absolute guarantees as to what exactly their peaks were going to be.

Jesper (and Timo) are simply in different spots...you have a good idea of what both of them should be going forward and both are firmly in their peak years.  And it's very likely going to take a higher AAV than what Jack's getting to sign them.  You hope that Bratt isn't looking for every last penny and that this goes smoothly, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if it went that way.  I'm not expecting any hometown discounts.

Basically, I suspect that if Bratt and Timo are signed, you're looking at $9 million or so AAV for each one.  Yeah, sounds like a lot.  Good news is if both these guys are actually here, here's who's locked up for a while:

Nico (4 more years)

Jack (7 more years)

Bratt (figure 5+ years)

Meier (figure 5+ years)

Palat (4 more years)

Hamilton (5 more years)

Marino (4 more years)

Siegs (5 more years)

Pretty good group to work with.  You'll have L Hughes and Nemec on ELCs.  You have one more year of Dawson on his ELC (hard to know what his next contract will be worth...based on his performance to date he probably gets $3 - 3.5 million over 3-4 years...he's definitely a bridge candidate).  We'll see if VV keeps playing like this...he'll be due for a big raise in 2025-26 if he does.

Basically, Fitz has to keep finding cheap 3rd and 4th-liners via the draft (and maybe one Top-6 guy).  Keep a nice flow of ELCs coming into the lineup.  But at least should the Devils become top-heavy, it's with guys who will mostly be young and should have several more good seasons ahead.  

 

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976
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2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Basically, I suspect that if Bratt and Timo are signed, you're looking at $9 million or so AAV for each one.  Yeah, sounds like a lot.  Good news is if both these guys are actually here, here's who's locked up for a while

I think one of the best comparable contracts to Bratt's possible contract is Kyrou in STL. He signed 8 @ 8.125AAV coming off a ppg season. Not sure if he signed 1 or 2 RFA years away but I think that would be my comp if I am Fitz.

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7 minutes ago, Henriqued said:

I think one of the best comparable contracts to Bratt's possible contract is Kyrou in STL. He signed 8 @ 8.125AAV coming off a ppg season. Not sure if he signed 1 or 2 RFA years away but I think that would be my comp if I am Fitz.

Agreed it’s comparable, but Horvat getting $8.5m from Grandpa Lou is where Bratt’s agent will rightfully look and be like “yeah, my guy isn’t making less than that clown”

I wish that Bratt would take the Crosby/Bruins approach and buy into taking a little less to build a juggernaut, but I just don’t see it with how much animosity has been his negotiations

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5 minutes ago, Henriqued said:

I think one of the best comparable contracts to Bratt's possible contract is Kyrou in STL. He signed 8 @ 8.125AAV coming off a ppg season. Not sure if he signed 1 or 2 RFA years away but I think that would be my comp if I am Fitz.

I think if Fitz got Bratt and Meier for below $9 million AAV for 5 years or so each, then Fitz did about as well as could be expected.  I know it's easy to say "Sign 'em both up for 8 years" but not sure if signing EVERYONE up for max term is always the right way to go.  

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16 minutes ago, Crisis said:

Puljujarvi is being held off the ice and Yamamoto is expected to play tomorrow so it sounds like the Oilers may finally have closed the deal for Karlsson.

As a hockey fan, I would love to see McDavid surrounded by a better supporting cast like all the other great ones seemed to have but this move for EK65 feels like it's going to fail spectacularly.   

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4 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

As a hockey fan, I would love to see McDavid surrounded by a better supporting cast like all the other great ones seemed to have but this move for EK65 feels like it's going to fail spectacularly.   

The problem is at the money he's making (not sure how much SJ will eat), he'd BETTER be this productive over the remaining years of that deal.  Like you said...feels like such a bad risk.   

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