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2023-2024 Around The League thread


MadDog2020

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1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

That's even crazier to me. You think Toffoli is the reason Holtz isn't getting minutes? As much as I'd like to see Holtz continue to get playing time and showcase what he's capable of, I don't know that I'd be in favor of pushing him up a line over Toffoli.  Toffoli's earned it.  That's my point.  We know what this team lacks, and what the problems are.  Toffoli isn't a problem, nor do I think he's causing problems for others. 

I mean, that just sounds so silly. It's like all of a sudden depth is a bad thing? You think a few years ago when the Lightning were really deep and had a great three or four lines, top to bottom, we're looking at players on their team who were performing well and thinking of ways to push them out so that guys below them could get playing time? Meanwhile if they did get that playing time there's no actual guarantee that they'd be better, or even the same? 

I believe you are missing the point...

Trading an impending UFA that by the GM's report is not close to signing may provide a first round pick back to us if we trade him that we can use to get a goalie. Additional benefits should be Timo moving back to his proper wing and Holtz getting more ice time on hopefully with better linemates.

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1 minute ago, hystyk28 said:

I believe you are missing the point...

Trading an impending UFA that by the GM's report is not close to signing may provide a first round pick back to us if we trade him that we can use to get a goalie. Additional benefits should be Timo moving back to his proper wing and Holtz getting more ice time on hopefully with better linemates.

I get the part about getting a first round pick back, but that goes back to my point about if we trade off to Toffoli for a pick, to then trade for a goalie, well then great, maybe we have a good goaltender, but we'll be losing a player who is leading our team in scoring this season. 

I know you have to give to get, but I'm just personally not interested in giving up a guy who is performing as good as we could have expected to get in return someone like who, Markstrom? Saros?  Sorry, no thanks. 

I didn't see anything about the Toffoli not being close to re-signing. Fitz said that? What about to Toffoli's agent? Anyway, we still have several months to go before that's really an issue. It's not like a guy not having an extension in early March is insane or never happens.  It's totally common..

Regardless, I'm okay if Fitz doesn't do much trade deadline. For all we know he has his eye on a couple players who are going to become free agents this offseason and we can get them without giving up a ton. 

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1 hour ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I get the part about getting a first round pick back, but that goes back to my point about if we trade off to Toffoli for a pick, to then trade for a goalie, well then great, maybe we have a good goaltender, but we'll be losing a player who is leading our team in scoring this season. 

I know you have to give to get, but I'm just personally not interested in giving up a guy who is performing as good as we could have expected to get in return someone like who, Markstrom? Saros?  Sorry, no thanks. 

I didn't see anything about the Toffoli not being close to re-signing. Fitz said that? What about to Toffoli's agent? Anyway, we still have several months to go before that's really an issue. It's not like a guy not having an extension in early March is insane or never happens.  It's totally common..

Regardless, I'm okay if Fitz doesn't do much trade deadline. For all we know he has his eye on a couple players who are going to become free agents this offseason and we can get them without giving up a ton. 

Toffoli leads the Devils in goal scoring, but Jesper, Jack, and Nico each have more total points despite—at least in the case of the latter two players—missing time due to injury.  There’s no question Toffoli’s a good player, but I don’t see him as the type of player who can help a team if he’s not scoring, and as he’s older than the rest of the core, he’ll likely be declining as Jesper and Nico enter their primes and Jack approaches his.  It seems a wiser course of action to surround the three of them with people who can play effectively off of them and at the speed at which the Devils offensive attack is most effective.

Edited by ButlerBulldog
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1 minute ago, MadDog2020 said:

Vegas never runs out of money, do they?

image.gif.9f29af4db1d9a9d2f7b08835b542817b.gif

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19 minutes ago, Oglethorpe13 said:

Helps when they can throw guys on LTIR until the playoffs.

I mean a lacerated spleen is a good reason to use LTIR… lol

we also have/had 9m to weaponize and… haven’t…. Yet…

Edited by jagknife
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5 hours ago, Lateralous said:

I've consistently said I like the player but I don't think he fit's here.  He's too slow and one dimensional for what I think this team should be and I don't think we should eat up significant cap to keep him so that means either move him or play out the string and let him walk.  Hence, "cut your losses"  

I think if everyone is playing up to expectations, Toffoli is more of a luxury than a need anyway.  As mentioned in my post, I'm hoping to get a late 1st.  They can either flip that as part of a package to address the hole in net or replace our own 1st when that is moved.    

The bold is pretty much the way I see it, too. Timo can be Nico’s main guy on his wing, and Bratt can be Jack’s. Fill out the rest of the top 6 with less expensive options. 

The last thing I want to see is another Palat situation. And if the rumors of Toffoli and Fitz being far apart on term are true then he absolutely has to be moved. 

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51 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

The bold is pretty much the way I see it, too. Timo can be Nico’s main guy on his wing, and Bratt can be Jack’s. Fill out the rest of the top 6 with less expensive options. 

The last thing I want to see is another Palat situation. And if the rumors of Toffoli and Fitz being far apart on term are true then he absolutely has to be moved. 

Yeah I’ve always felt that if Toffoli is looking for a payday, he’s going to have to get it someplace else.  I’d rather have no more years of Toffoli than 3+ seasons of him, and seems like Fitz was thinking along those lines.

That being said, Toffoli did do what he was brought here to do at least, even if he doesn’t do much more than score.  At least he’s given the Devils a chance to net a solid return.

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Does everyone think Toffoli's time is up after just one season?  What if we had made the playoffs this year? Would anyone think he gets re-signed then? I think the answer is unequivocally yes, and if that's the case I don't see how you can feel very different now just because the entire team fell apart this year. 

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7 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I get the part about getting a first round pick back, but that goes back to my point about if we trade off to Toffoli for a pick, to then trade for a goalie, well then great, maybe we have a good goaltender, but we'll be losing a player who is leading our team in scoring this season. 

I know you have to give to get, but I'm just personally not interested in giving up a guy who is performing as good as we could have expected to get in return someone like who, Markstrom? Saros?  Sorry, no thanks. 

I didn't see anything about the Toffoli not being close to re-signing. Fitz said that? What about to Toffoli's agent? Anyway, we still have several months to go before that's really an issue. It's not like a guy not having an extension in early March is insane or never happens.  It's totally common..

Regardless, I'm okay if Fitz doesn't do much trade deadline. For all we know he has his eye on a couple players who are going to become free agents this offseason and we can get them without giving up a ton. 

This season is over...TT is going...going...gon

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6 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Does everyone think Toffoli's time is up after just one season?  What if we had made the playoffs this year? Would anyone think he gets re-signed then? I think the answer is unequivocally yes, and if that's the case I don't see how you can feel very different now just because the entire team fell apart this year. 

At what price though?  That’s the issue here.  I’d be willing to go one season, two at most.  Sounds like his camp wants more than that, and who knows what they’re asking for in AAV.

And in fairness, in this timeline, the Devils aren’t making the playoffs and are heavily trending in the wrong direction, so they should do some selling, and hopefully those pieces added can be used to help address issues this offseason.

Also keep in mind that Toffoli could very well not get the kinds of offers as a UFA that he thought he would (he’s slow and doesn’t bring much outside of scoring) and could very well wind up taking a two-year offer from Fitz.  But it’s scary to think of what might happen if he loses a step.

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3 minutes ago, Devil Dan 56 said:

Beating a long dead horse here, but I feel that all these deals where a third team takes part of a player salary is not within the “spirit of the cap”. 

I'm at the point that EVERYONE knows how to work the cap, is doing financial gymnastics to exploit it and if a team's GM is savvy enough to be a third party to such a deal and acquire assets, they should.

That being said... uh... Fitz... we've got two spots remaining to be a broker.... and $8m in LTIR space he STILL has not taken advantage of...

 

A 1st for Toffoli, even with salary retained, is not out of the question based on other deals, but man, I have a weird feeling about the next two days and a lot has to do with creeping doubts about our GM.

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8 minutes ago, jagknife said:

I'm at the point that EVERYONE knows how to work the cap, is doing financial gymnastics to exploit it and if a team's GM is savvy enough to be a third party to such a deal and acquire assets, they should.

That being said... uh... Fitz... we've got two spots remaining to be a broker.... and $8m in LTIR space he STILL has not taken advantage of...

 

A 1st for Toffoli, even with salary retained, is not out of the question based on other deals, but man, I have a weird feeling about the next two days and a lot has to do with creeping doubts about our GM.

I'm not as down on Fitz as some are, but if Toffoli's here past the deadline, that's gonna fall strictly into the "C'mon man what the hell are you DOING Fitz?!" basket for me.  You only keep Toffoli around if there's a REALISTIC shot to make the playoffs.  Devils should absolutely be sellers this season and there's absolutely pieces worth selling that won't impact the core.    

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11 minutes ago, 2ELIAS6 said:

I blame the loss of this season solely on fitz. Not making decisions and moves in a timely manner has put us in the overly disappointing situation we are in now. 

Fitz learned everything from Shero and it shows. Both suffer from a paralyzing fear of making a decision. Just the handling of the goaltending alone is insane going back to losing Wedgewood on waivers. Then coming into this year with Vanecek and Schmid, the only reinforcements he signed were Kinkaid and Kallgren?? 

Now he’s had 8 million in free cap space that he’s sitting on while the team spiraled. It’s too late now. Meanwhile as shady as the whole Vegas and Mark Stone thing is, look how they use that extra space. 

At least Fitz got that cool Nashville jersey out of this season 

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10 hours ago, NJDfan1711 said:

Does everyone think Toffoli's time is up after just one season?  What if we had made the playoffs this year? Would anyone think he gets re-signed then? I think the answer is unequivocally yes, and if that's the case I don't see how you can feel very different now just because the entire team fell apart this year. 

Dumb take here, but I think it depends entirely on what TT is looking for, cap/term.  No chance Fitz is dumb enough to offer him 5+ years at significant AAV, TT probably wants that final big-money contract (and I don't blame him).

That said, if he wants to stay here that much Fitz can revisit it in the offseason.  There is... zero... reason to keep him past the TDL imo.

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1 minute ago, Devilsfan118 said:

Dumb take here, but I think it depends entirely on what TT is looking for, cap/term.  No chance Fitz is dumb enough to offer him 5+ years at significant AAV, TT probably wants that final big-money contract (and I don't blame him).

That said, if he wants to stay here that much Fitz can revisit it in the offseason.  There is... zero... reason to keep him past the TDL imo.

You know what kind of team signs Toffoli to 4+ years?  Columbus.

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1 hour ago, jagknife said:

 

 

A 1st for Toffoli, even with salary retained, is not out of the question based on other deals, but man, I have a weird feeling about the next two days and a lot has to do with creeping doubts about our GM.

Me too.   

That press conference the other day was an absolute tire fire from the standpoint of asking me to have confidence in you as our GM moving forward.  Fine, be emotional about Lindy but WTF was that with Holtz?  It's bad enough you punted two of the last three seasons with shoddy goaltending and did absolutely nothing to keep this season from going off the rails, but you also totally f'ed your own top 10 pick's development two straight years.  Then you're going to air your frustrations with him publicly in that forum because you apparently have some sort of grudge?   GTFO.   

After being too patient, I feel like he might try to overcompensate on fixing the roster over the next 48 hours with bad moves.  Either way, he better have this thing back on the rails by training camp.         

Edited by Lateralous
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8 minutes ago, Lateralous said:

After being too patient, I feel like he might try to overcompensate on fixing the roster over the next 48 hours with bad moves.  Either way, he better have this thing back on the rails by training camp.         

I think you're worrying for no reason. The trade deadline is in about 30 hours. Fitz's only move so far had been MacDermid. How many moves do you think he could really make before tomorrow at 3? 

I think the complete opposite of you. I don't expect much, if anything, to happen at all. To me this could very well be one of those deadlines where, when it passes, we go "Well, that was pretty quiet." 

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5 minutes ago, NJDfan1711 said:

I think you're worrying for no reason. The trade deadline is in about 30 hours. Fitz's only move so far had been MacDermid. How many moves do you think he could really make before tomorrow at 3? 

I think the complete opposite of you. I don't expect much, if anything, to happen at all. To me this could very well be one of those deadlines where, when it passes, we go "Well, that was pretty quiet." 

I'm hoping that Toffoli, Miller, and Smith are moved...in the cases of Toffoli and Miller, it's not that I have any issues with them, it's more that they're UFAs-to-be and it makes sense to get assets for them, especially since it's not like Fitz can't revisit re-signing either one after the season.  Smith can go for a bag of souvenir pucks for all I care.

Would love to see Hatakka get called up if the above happens.   

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