GDT: Washington @ Devils 7:00 PM MSGSN

[MadDog2020]

1 minute ago, Nicomo said:

I’d like to tell Lindy a few things right about now.

Me too 🤣

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

10 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

Please get this memo to Lindy, because he doesn’t seem to agree.

The only way that Lindy can be down on Holtz is if he’s completely blinded by metrics.  Because I think that for the most part, Holtz has been good enough to avoid being a healthy scratch.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

18 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

I’ll go against the grain here and say I’m pretty against trading Holtz for a middling defenseman. Kid is finally starting to look like he might actually pan out. He’s currently 2nd on the team in 5v5 goals (only Toffoli has more), and he actually looks like the most dynamic forward they have some nights, imo. 

People are talking about a numbers game, but the Devils also have both Nemec and Casey on the way. Even if they were able to extend Zadorov there’s about to be more of a logjam on defense than there is at wing. 

If Fitz ever did deal off Holtz, then I say he’s at least gotta lock up Toffoli.  

[Nicomo]

8 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

The only way that Lindy can be down on Holtz is if he’s completely blinded by metrics.  Because I think that for the most part, Holtz has been good enough to avoid being a healthy scratch.

I don’t even think that’s it tbh. It’s not like some of the plugs he prefers (down 2 goals in the 3rd period of a game) are some advanced stats darlings or anything. Just seems like typical old school hockey coach nonsense to me. 

As for Holtz’s metrics, this kind of speaks for itself…

 

[Nicomo]

8 minutes ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

If Fitz ever did deal off Holtz, then I say he’s at least gotta lock up Toffoli.  

Would that not make you just a little bit nervous after watching Palat’s game completely fall off a cliff? 

Not that I’m against it. He’s exactly what I dreamed of to play on a line with Jack for years now, but his age is a factor. Guess it would just depend on how long. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

2 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Would that not make you just a little bit nervous after watching Palat’s game completely fall off a cliff? 

Not that I’m against it. He’s exactly what I dreamed of to play on a line with Jack for years now, but his age is a factor. Guess it would just depend on how long. 

Four years tops, hopefully for three.  I think he wants to be a part of this thing, and might be willing to leave some things on the table to stick around.

[NJDevils1214]

2 hours ago, Nicomo said:

Would that not make you just a little bit nervous after watching Palat’s game completely fall off a cliff? 

Not that I’m against it. He’s exactly what I dreamed of to play on a line with Jack for years now, but his age is a factor. Guess it would just depend on how long. 

You changed your avatar and didn't even consult us first? That's a little rude.... /s

2 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

Four years tops, hopefully for three.  I think he wants to be a part of this thing, and might be willing to leave some things on the table to stick around.

I don't want to give Cannoli more than 2. If he really wants to win again he'll take it and be happy. Palat worries me a lot-- not so much due to the lack of production but more so because he's nearly invisible. Even when Timo isn't on the score sheet you notice him, for better or worse he gets chances, but you wouldn't know Palat played most nights. I hope the whole team starts to get their sh!t together sooner than later.

[Nicomo]

Just now, NJDevils1214 said:

You changed your avatar and didn't even consult us first? That's a little rude.... /s

Desperate times call for desperate measures. That avi has been bad luck…

*OCD sucks*

[MadDog2020]

13 minutes ago, Nicomo said:

Desperate times call for desperate measures. That avi has been bad luck…

*OCD sucks*

I went back to my old avi too 🤣

Edited November 11, 2023 by MadDog2020

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

53 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

You changed your avatar and didn't even consult us first? That's a little rude.... /s

I don't want to give Cannoli more than 2. If he really wants to win again he'll take it and be happy. Palat worries me a lot-- not so much due to the lack of production but more so because he's nearly invisible. Even when Timo isn't on the score sheet you notice him, for better or worse he gets chances, but you wouldn't know Palat played most nights. I hope the whole team starts to get their sh!t together sooner than later.

I’d be OK with two years for Toffoli but that probably means higher AAV.

I see it more as:  if Toffoli is re-upped, that means soyonara Holtz.  Because it will feel like that’s the Devils basically giving up on the idea of Holtz seizing a Top 6 slot…he’ll be dealt for another need.  Either the Devils keep the “stopgap”, or the guy who’s supposed to be ready to take his place.  I don’t see there truly being room for Toffoli AND Holtz.  

Yeah I know Palat wasn’t necessarily brought in for pure glamour numbers, but it can’t ALL be about “Experienced and played for a winner.”  He’s gotta do more and be better. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[nessus]

The positives I took from this game: Meier and Mercer seem to be coming alive. They both were creating significantly more than they had been earlier this season. Particularly Meier, I thought he was showcasing the skills that made him so great in SJ. Bratt also is still doing his thing, no matter who is on his line. Schmid also was good. I personally am not super confident in the goalie situation right now, but Vanecek has been solid for most of this season so far, and a bad game like that can happen to anyone. It's not like they put in Schmid and he completely took us out of the game.

Is it just me, or is Marino starting to tap into his offensive potential lately? I wouldn't say he has been quite as solid defensively this season as he was last season, but he is definitely adding a lot more on the offensive end.

I'll echo everything that has been said about Holtz. I cannot figure out what he did to be in the doghouse in the way that he is. Was it when he took a penalty because someone couldn't hold on to his stick? Probably would have been a decent game to try him with decent linemates, when Palat continues to struggle. 

As far as the defense, this is starting to look like a problem. I think Luke will offset the loss of Graves from a defensive standpoint by the end of the season. But we are really feeling the loss of Severson. I know he isn't missed much by many people around here, but he really was such a luxury to have as a RD3 last season. He made those egregious mistakes every now and then, but I would argue that he was much more solid than he got credit for. I certainly felt more comfortable with him on the ice than I do with Smith or Bahl. Zadorov wouldn't be a bad fit here, but with Nemec coming up soon, I don't think it's worth giving up much for a player like that.

[HughesCorporation]

4 hours ago, nessus said:

The positives I took from this game: Meier and Mercer seem to be coming alive. They both were creating significantly more than they had been earlier this season. Particularly Meier, I thought he was showcasing the skills that made him so great in SJ. Bratt also is still doing his thing, no matter who is on his line. Schmid also was good. I personally am not super confident in the goalie situation right now, but Vanecek has been solid for most of this season so far, and a bad game like that can happen to anyone. It's not like they put in Schmid and he completely took us out of the game.

Is it just me, or is Marino starting to tap into his offensive potential lately? I wouldn't say he has been quite as solid defensively this season as he was last season, but he is definitely adding a lot more on the offensive end.

I'll echo everything that has been said about Holtz. I cannot figure out what he did to be in the doghouse in the way that he is. Was it when he took a penalty because someone couldn't hold on to his stick? Probably would have been a decent game to try him with decent linemates, when Palat continues to struggle. 

As far as the defense, this is starting to look like a problem. I think Luke will offset the loss of Graves from a defensive standpoint by the end of the season. But we are really feeling the loss of Severson. I know he isn't missed much by many people around here, but he really was such a luxury to have as a RD3 last season. He made those egregious mistakes every now and then, but I would argue that he was much more solid than he got credit for. I certainly felt more comfortable with him on the ice than I do with Smith or Bahl. Zadorov wouldn't be a bad fit here, but with Nemec coming up soon, I don't think it's worth giving up much for a player like that.

He's made some slick plays entering the zone, looking like a forward at times, I was surprised seeing that from him

[devlman]

17 hours ago, jagknife said:

Respectfully and vehemently disagree on Haula. Unlike last season, he actually got off on the right foot and was playing really well until the injuries happened. Then Lindy stapled him on the checking line and has decided to double shift McLeod…

Lazar has been playing his balls off and until last night had a nice points streak going. He’s playing the body, getting into scoring areas and actually blocking shots, smart defensive hockey unlike Smith whose greatest contribution in a Devils’ jersey was putting ovechkin on his ass and knocking Wilson’s helmet off.

Palat, however, has done nothing to impress me, and I was psyched when we signed him. He’s just simply not doing enough, at all, to warrant a 6m cap hit.

Haula on the checking line should be his expected role. He got off to a decent start but hasn’t done anything on the checking line, and that includes good defensive play.

[vincois]

Everyone speaks as if another team really wants Smith? Most Devil fans want him gone, yet so generous as "oh we'll give you Smith". I hope Holtz catches on here & goes nowhere. We have 5 total coaches, & they all have a say in roster moves. Lindy is the final decision maker.  Also, when you're up by one goal late in a game, Palat is a nice player to have. Everyone puts player value on offensive production. I feel confident the team will straighten out this mess until Jack/Nice get back. After all, they are the top 2 players on the team. (leadership wise as well)

Some jackass on Twitter posted a fire Lindy sign. aside from Luke, this is same D as last year. Zadorov for almost 4 mil? He occasionally makes a big hit. Borderline 5-6 D man. For those who want him, Who goes the other way?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

14 hours ago, vincois said:

Everyone speaks as if another team really wants Smith? Most Devil fans want him gone, yet so generous as "oh we'll give you Smith". I hope Holtz catches on here & goes nowhere. We have 5 total coaches, & they all have a say in roster moves. Lindy is the final decision maker.  Also, when you're up by one goal late in a game, Palat is a nice player to have. Everyone puts player value on offensive production. I feel confident the team will straighten out this mess until Jack/Nice get back. After all, they are the top 2 players on the team. (leadership wise as well)

Some jackass on Twitter posted a fire Lindy sign. aside from Luke, this is same D as last year. Zadorov for almost 4 mil? He occasionally makes a big hit. Borderline 5-6 D man. For those who want him, Who goes the other way?

I mentioned this before but Smith’s value isn’t so much on the ice…it’s that he’s on an expiring deal and that his remaining hit can fit easily under just about any cap.  Basically if there’s a contract that a team is looking to dump, they can take Smith back with more “desirable” assets, and be done with Smith after the season.  Another way to look at it:  you take Smith, and we'll give you something else for getting him off our books (and out of our lineup).  

Also, not REALLY the same D...two regulars (Seves and Graves) are gone.  Unlike the vibe that I'm starting to get from others, I would NOT want them back.  It was time for Seves to go, especially with Luke ready to play with the big club...sure, he's making some (expected) rookie mistakes, but that was ABSOLUTELY to be expected, and Severson still makes rookie mistakes to this day.  It would have been great if Graves had just one more year on his contract (would've allowed Fitz not to have to find another stopgap to hold the fort until Nemec was fully ready), but Miller was a fine choice to be that "one year" guy...and if he comes back from injury and plays well, that deal still has a shot to work out.

There's just no second-guessing to be done re:  Seves and Graves.  But we're gonna have to deal with some transitional growing pains as Luke and Nemec become part of the team.  Both project to not only have higher upside than the guys they're replacing, but they should be here for lots of prime years.

 

Re:  Zadorov, he's better than you're making him sound, but your questions are fair.  My questions re:  Zadorov:

Are the Devils buying or renting?  I have trouble seeing how they can really keep him here beyond this season...there's a good chance keeping Toffoli will make sense (who's the scoring prospect waiting in the wings to take his spot?  I can't fully bet on that player being Holtz).  Dawson's ELC is up after this year, and it's too early to know what an extension will look like for him, but gotta think he's making at least $3.5 million AAV, absolute minimum (though probably more).  And of course other guys to be paid down the line...especially if Fitz is forced to explore upgrading the goaltending (still early to make that call).  

If the idea is somehow to keep Zadorov, I think the guy who's gotta go the other way as part of any deal is Bahl...for one, you now have a vet replacing a young defenseman (Bahl still doesn't have a full season's worth of regular season games under his belt), which means suddenly the idea of Nemec joining the fray with Luke already here seems less "scary".  Basically you're getting an experienced big D for a more raw (and younger) big D...there's about a 5-year difference between Zadorov and Bahl.  Bahl will also be a little easier to control from a cost standpoint as well, as he's signed through next season and will still be a RFA once his current deal expires, so maybe the Flames find that appealing.

I get the feeling the Flames will try to sell high here, so I expect that they'll try to nab Casey.  And no way do I accommodate them (I doubt Fitz will either).  I'll give them Bahl and a draft pick and maybe a middling prospect...maybe that's not enough, but Zadorov will be a UFA-to-be and I can't give away too much for a rental, especially since I don't think the Devils have fully reached the "absolute all-in all-of-the-time" part of this window just yet.  I'm not saying that I wouldn't like Zadorov here, just that I'm not yet sure that I want to go all-in on a season that looks like it may not go the Devils' way (see what's happened with Nico and Jack).

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[capo]

3 hours ago, Colorado Rockies 1976 said:

I mentioned this before but Smith’s value isn’t so much on the ice…it’s that he’s on an expiring deal and that his remaining hit can fit easily under just about any cap.  Basically if there’s a contract that a team is looking to dump, they can take Smith back with more “desirable” assets, and be done with Smith after the season.  Another way to look at it:  you take Smith, and we'll give you something else for getting him off our books (and out of our lineup).  

Also, not REALLY the same D...two regulars (Seves and Graves) are gone.  Unlike the vibe that I'm starting to get from others, I would NOT want them back.  It was time for Seves to go, especially with Luke ready to play with the big club...sure, he's making some (expected) rookie mistakes, but that was ABSOLUTELY to be expected, and Severson still makes rookie mistakes to this day.  It would have been great if Graves had just one more year on his contract (would've allowed Fitz not to have to find another stopgap to hold the fort until Nemec was fully ready), but Miller was a fine choice to be that "one year" guy...and if he comes back from injury and plays well, that deal still has a shot to work out.

There's just no second-guessing to be done re:  Seves and Graves.  But we're gonna have to deal with some transitional growing pains as Luke and Nemec become part of the team.  Both project to not only have higher upside than the guys they're replacing, but they should be here for lots of prime years.

 

Re:  Zadorov, he's better than you're making him sound, but your questions are fair.  My questions re:  Zadorov:

Are the Devils buying or renting?  I have trouble seeing how they can really keep him here beyond this season...there's a good chance keeping Toffoli will make sense (who's the scoring prospect waiting in the wings to take his spot?  I can't fully bet on that player being Holtz).  Dawson's ELC is up after this year, and it's too early to know what an extension will look like for him, but gotta think he's making at least $3.5 million AAV, absolute minimum (though probably more).  And of course other guys to be paid down the line...especially if Fitz is forced to explore upgrading the goaltending (still early to make that call).  

If the idea is somehow to keep Zadorov, I think the guy who's gotta go the other way as part of any deal is Bahl...for one, you now have a vet replacing a young defenseman (Bahl still doesn't have a full season's worth of regular season games under his belt), which means suddenly the idea of Nemec joining the fray with Luke already here seems less "scary".  Basically you're getting an experienced big D for a more raw (and younger) big D...there's about a 5-year difference between Zadorov and Bahl.  Bahl will also be a little easier to control from a cost standpoint as well, as he's signed through next season and will still be a RFA once his current deal expires, so maybe the Flames find that appealing.

I get the feeling the Flames will try to sell high here, so I expect that they'll try to nab Casey.  And no way do I accommodate them (I doubt Fitz will either).  I'll give them Bahl and a draft pick and maybe a middling prospect...maybe that's not enough, but Zadorov will be a UFA-to-be and I can't give away too much for a rental, especially since I don't think the Devils have fully reached the "absolute all-in all-of-the-time" part of this window just yet.  I'm not saying that I wouldn't like Zadorov here, just that I'm not yet sure that I want to go all-in on a season that looks like it may not go the Devils' way (see what's happened with Nico and Jack).

 

It's funny. I was thinking the exact same thing.  Bahl has to be the eto go in this deal.  I would bring up Nemec and play him with Zadorov when done.

[NJDevils1214]

I really think it's possible that management was hoping to not have to burn a year of Nemec's elc this year because of the cap implications in the long term. The early season struggle might end up forcing their hand. They need to shake that group up and I'm not sure Miller becoming available is going to be enough.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

3 minutes ago, NJDevils1214 said:

I really think it's possible that management was hoping to not have to burn a year of Nemec's elc this year because of the cap implications in the long term. The early season struggle might end up forcing their hand. They need to shake that group up and I'm not sure Miller becoming available is going to be enough.

I think Fitz is one of those GMs who wants to go with the best players, and worry about the cap as situations arise.

Basically, if he thinks Nemec is the best candidate to help the Devils win in 2023-24, he'll add him to the big club...but he wants to be sure about where Nemec's overall game is before he does it.

I do think Miller will still get the first look though, once he's able to join the lineup.  At this point, I'm really just ready for Smith to stop being a thing around here.  Given the lack of immediate options, I get Lindy not completely killing him when asked, but this guy has largely sucked since coming here...he's painful to watch.  Even if it's a case of Miller simply being Not-Smith, I'd like to see him get a batch of games, while Smith makes himself comfortable in street clothes elsewhere.

[slasher72]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:54 PM, MadDog2020 said:

Please get this memo to Lindy, because he doesn’t seem to agree.

Lindy is down on Holtz because of his defensive play. That's the reason why he's flailing around in the lower lines alongside Bastian and Tierney. It's unfortunate. As long as Lindy's here the kid is not going to get a break. We're probably better off trading him to another team where the coach is going to give him a shot. I just don't see it happening here. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by slasher72

[MadDog2020]

6 minutes ago, slasher72 said:

Lindy is down on Holtz because of his defensive play. That's the reason why he's flailing around in the lower lines alongside Bastian and Tierney. It's unfortunate. As long as Lindy's here the kid is not going to get a break. We're probably better off trading him to another team where the coach is going to give him a shot. I just don't see it happening here. 

You may have wanted to check today’s lines before this post.

[slasher72]

5 minutes ago, MadDog2020 said:

You may have wanted to check today’s lines before this post.

Nice, hopefully he does well with Mercer, Toffoli.